[comp.sys.amiga] Self Extracting Files

acliu@skat.usc.edu (Alex C. Liu) (03/12/90)

I think the main advantage for Self Extracting Files go for people who
only have one drive and/or no Hard Disk.  In that case one has to flip
to several disks to find the appropiate archiver and then have to flip
disks and so on.  The problem with Self Extracting files though
(Besides the one alredy mentioned) is that you need to use the SAME
computer that the file was archived for.  For example if I get a ZOO
file, I can always dearchive it using an Amiga or a Unix Box or a
MSDOS box.  But if I get a Self Extracting file, I would need a MS-DOS
box or an Amiga.  (Portability problems...)

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md3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Donald Drown) (03/12/90)

  After scanning through all the messages about how people will
never ever download something unless it has the source, or unless
they know the author, etc, I can understand why people are so 
afraid of viruses, and the like.  Believe or not people not everyone 
in the Amiga world is working on ways to erase your harddrive
and kill your dog.
  I can't possibly believe you people who run string comparision
tests on all their archives, and never run anything that resembles
something bad.  Hell, turn the machine on, boot the damn thing,
if it doesn't do what you want, turn the machine off, go get a drink,
come back and delete the archive.
  It sounds like many users, or maybe just the over anxious to post
users, have no trust in anything.  Learn to trust somethings, it's
a computer, you have control over it, not vice-versa.
  Personally I don't mind self extracting archives, but they aren't
needed on the amiga that much.  On the commodore 64 where
memory was very important, the self dissolving arc programs were
nice, you didn't have to spend 10 minutes loading a stupid little 
program to dissolve your program.
  Just my personal opinion.

-Matt Drown (md3b@andrew.cmu.edu)

-/ I even Download things without the source, and then run them /-

rogers@iris.ucdavis.edu (Brewski Rogers) (03/12/90)

I think the main reason no self-extracting archiver ever caught on is that
you don't need to get the program to de-archive your file, and so when
it comes time to archive a file, you find you don't have the self-extracting
archiver, and just use ZOO instead.

...


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consp11@bingsunm.cc.binghamton.edu (Brett Kessler) (03/13/90)

 
> I think the main advantage for Self Extracting Files go for people who
> only have one drive and/or no Hard Disk.

I have to differ.  I think the main advantage for Self Extracting Files
would have to be their extension.  Imagine all of those .SEX files that
are able to take care of themselves!  ;-)

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sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (03/13/90)

md3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Donald Drown) writes:


>  I can't possibly believe you people who run string comparision
>tests on all their archives, and never run anything that resembles
>something bad.  Hell, turn the machine on, boot the damn thing,
>if it doesn't do what you want, turn the machine off, go get a drink,
>come back and delete the archive.

Matt, 
What you say makes sense for those of us running off of floppy systems. 
But I think most of the 'paranoia' about viruses comes from those with
hard drives. Unless you want to risk infecting your hard drive, you either
have to be very careful with what you run on your machine, or disconnect
your hard drive everytime you want to try some unknown software. 

You can't write protect a hard drive like you can a floppy. So you have
to be extra paranoid about what you run.

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maniac@howlin.cs.unlv.edu (Eric J. Schwertfeger) (03/14/90)

	I'm glad that self-extracting archivers never caught on, but for 
a different reason.  The problem lies in the difference between transmitting 
an executable via modem, or a data file via modem.  I once spent several hours 
tring to unarchive a .PAK (the self-extracting kind) file, with no success 
because the uploader had managed to get the file incorrectly padded.  So, 
the file lengths wouldn't match, and AmiDos wouldn't execute the file.
	I tried padding the file more, chopping off some, but never could 
get the file to execute.  Since PAK doesn't have a non-self extracting 
option, I was stuck.  The way I finally got around it was to download the 
archiver, and add a 1K dummy file (shorter files didn't help) to the archive.  
Appearantly, this straightened out the problem.
	Actually, I have seen ONE good use for self-extracting archivers on a 
local BBS. The sysop keeps Zoo, ARC, LHArc, and Zippy in .PAK format so that
you can download them and use them even if you don't have any unarchivers.

Eric Schwertfeger, maniac@jimi.CS.UNLV.EDU

bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury) (03/14/90)

In-Reply-To: message from md3b+@andrew.cmu.edu

> Personally I don't mind self extracting archives, but they aren't
> needed on the amiga that much.  On the commodore 64 where
> memory was very important, the self dissolving arc programs were
> nice, you didn't have to spend 10 minutes loading a stupid little
> program to dissolve your program.
> Just my personal opinion.
> 
> -Matt Drown (md3b@andrew.cmu.edu)

Also, an application for self extracting files (I've seen Zsoft use this for
MSDOS) is to pack your programs into self extracting files on disks and then
use a batch program to do an automatic installation for you.  In fact, Zsoft
does this to it's newer PCPaintbrush programs allowing for all the drivers etc
to be on less disks.  It's also a good way to do demo's and such that have to
be installed on a hard drive to run because of space limitations.  This way
the batch file can just run the self extracting file and extract it to the
device specified in the batch file variables by the user when he picks items
from a menu.

This works well for reputable software companies and I don't see a problem
with it.

-- Bob
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