mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amiga have keyboard garages) Meyer) (03/07/90)
In article <296@amix.commodore.com> ag@amix.commodore.com (Keith Gabryelski) writes: >Don't get me wrong - I think having Unix available is a wonderfull >thing. I also think that, like the Mac & PC world, the price of >running Unix will keep almost everyone from doing so. This is a good point. How much is do you think a low end Unix workstation should go for to be in the typical user's price range? Simply rule of thumb - if I can start considering a new car for the price of the system, then it's to expensive. That puts the cap around $5,000. (same author, different article) Infact, I just took a current system and removed all networking/man pages and things and I ended up with 27meg used. That doesn't seem to bad since it was a fully operation R4 system (minus any trace of a network). That's nice to know. Now, put the man pages back - doing development sans online man pages isn't a win. My experience is that you also want to put the sources back, but AT&T would probably object. In any case, this seems small enough that a streaming tape is a luxury instead of a necessity. The resulting drop in cost might make it affordable to "typical users." If you've only got one machine, you don't really need the networking stuff for development. Unless you're developing networking code, in which case you also desperately need another machine. Of course, with another machine and a network, you can use NFS to share non-critical things so the disk space growth isn't linear. Which brings up a really strange point - at DEC, we use CI (think of it as super-SCSI) as an IP pathway. Will Amix allow running IP over a SCSI net so that those operating on a shoestring budget can get networking without having to buy the ethernet hardware? Better yet, will that move to AmigaDOS (I'm not about to buy a Unix box from CBM. I've got Unix cycles coming out my ears at work). For something really from left field - I've seen how the IBM RIOS announcement is affecting DEC & MIPS. I've heard what Motorola has to say to the press. Can you say anything about how CBM feels about this? <mike -- Come all you rolling minstrels, Mike Meyer And together we will try, mwm@relay.pa.dec.com To rouse the spirit of the air, decwrl!mwm And move the rolling sky.
cpp@calmasd.Prime.COM (Chuck Peterson) (03/07/90)
I'd like to agree with mwm about the importance of the man pages in unix. The man pages are one of the best things about unix. You can get nearly complete help without a hardcopy manual, when you need it. It would be a shame if commodore has to leave them out. This is my own opinion and is not intended to reflect the view of my employer. This is my own opinion and in no way reflects the view of Prime Computer, Inc.
dlj@hpfcso.HP.COM (Dave Jobusch) (03/07/90)
/ hpfcso:comp.sys.amiga / mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amiga have keyboard garages) Meyer) / 12:29 pm Mar 6, 1990 / Mike wonders out loud about the CBM/Amix/Pie/Sky string... > >For something really from left field - I've seen how the IBM RIOS >announcement is affecting DEC & MIPS. I've heard what Motorola has to >say to the press. Can you say anything about how CBM feels about this? > > <mike >-- >Come all you rolling minstrels, Mike Meyer >And together we will try, mwm@relay.pa.dec.com >To rouse the spirit of the air, decwrl!mwm >And move the rolling sky. >---------- I know this has come up before, but I don't remember seeing any response to it, so I'll ask again... Has anyone seen the Motorola ads that have "Look who's pushing 040" at the top? Included in the list is "C= Commodore". Did anyone have any guesses as to what CBM might be up to with '040s???? As for that matter, in the same issue that I saw the Motorola ad, I saw a blurb mentioning a new MacIntosh coming out soon. The "IIci" i think? Anyone have info about that? Hmmmm. Not quite sure why I put this note in c.s.a. Good thing most of the readers are so worldly, varies, and willing to argue about most anything :-) :-) :-) +----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+ | ___ | David L. Jobusch | | / / | Distributed Systems Suppport | | HEWLETT/hp/PACKARD | 3404 East Harmony Road MS#68 | | /__/ | Ft. Collins, CO 80525 | | Fort Collins Site | Internet: dlj%hpfcla@hplabs.hp.com | |Information Technology| | +----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+
usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) (03/08/90)
In article <990@calmasd.Prime.COM> cpp@calmasd.Prime.COM (Chuck Peterson) writes: >I'd like to agree with mwm about the importance of the man pages in unix. >The man pages are one of the best things about unix. You can get >nearly complete help without a hardcopy manual, when you need it. It >would be a shame if commodore has to leave them out. This be a big reason why I wrote HyperHelp. It makes online help easy to use and is quite flexible. LEts you format text the way you need to (color, styles, fonts). It makes the text fit the window (by reformating when widows get resized) instead of making the user size the window for the text. It lets you print the whole file, or just whats in the window. It will even work with plain ASCII files not specially edited for it. Which mean you simply link in any text files you want access to, without modifying them if you don't wanna. All thats missing is a set of AmigaDOS docs on line. I think that this should be included with 1.4, then they can give me piles of royalties, and the Amiga gets on line docs. Note: The above opinion is quite possibly biased. Joe Porkka porkka@frith.egr.msu.edu
ammrk@swbatl.sbc.com (Mike R. Kraml) (03/09/90)
In article <9010009@hpfcso.HP.COM> dlj@hpfcso.HP.COM (Dave Jobusch) writes: >/ hpfcso:comp.sys.amiga / mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amiga have keyboard garages) Meyer) / 12:29 pm Mar 6, 1990 / > >I know this has come up before, but I don't remember seeing any response >to it, so I'll ask again... > >Has anyone seen the Motorola ads that have "Look who's pushing 040" >at the top? Included in the list is "C= Commodore". Did anyone have >any guesses as to what CBM might be up to with '040s???? Sorry: Your guess is as good as mine on this one! > >As for that matter, in the same issue that I saw the Motorola ad, I saw >a blurb mentioning a new MacIntosh coming out soon. The "IIci" i think? >Anyone have info about that? The new Mac IIci is basically a Mac IIcx but with a 25Mhz 030 instead of the 16Mhz 030. Otherwise, its about the same. > >Hmmmm. Not quite sure why I put this note in c.s.a. Good thing most >of the readers are so worldly, varies, and willing to argue about >most anything :-) :-) :-) > >+----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+ >| ___ | David L. Jobusch | >| / / | Distributed Systems Suppport | >| HEWLETT/hp/PACKARD | 3404 East Harmony Road MS#68 | >| /__/ | Ft. Collins, CO 80525 | >| Fort Collins Site | Internet: dlj%hpfcla@hplabs.hp.com | >|Information Technology| | >+----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+ Take it easy, Mike... ============================================================================= Mike Kraml - Manager-Separations MECHANIZATION - SWBT - (The Techies) UUCP: {uunet, bellcore, texbell}...!swbatl!slims!ammrk ============================================================================= -- ============================================================================= Mike Kraml - Manager-Separations MECHANIZATION - SWBT - (The Techies) UUCP: {uunet, bellcore, texbell}...!swbatl!slims!ammrk =============================================================================
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (03/13/90)
In article <1231@swbatl.sbc.com> ammrk@swbatl.UUCP (Mike R. Kraml) writes: >In article <9010009@hpfcso.HP.COM> dlj@hpfcso.HP.COM (Dave Jobusch) writes: >>As for that matter, in the same issue that I saw the Motorola ad, I saw >>a blurb mentioning a new MacIntosh coming out soon. The "IIci" i think? >>Anyone have info about that? > The new Mac IIci is basically a Mac IIcx but with a 25Mhz 030 instead of the > 16Mhz 030. Otherwise, its about the same. Actually, the IIci is a significant improvement over the IIcx; you might call it the first Mac with an interesting hardware design. It has a respectible CPU to memory interface, and on-board video that shares time with the CPU, quite a bit like the way the Amiga's been doing it, at least at a low level. They even have two memory sets, A (think Chip) and B (think Fast), and just like on the Amiga, a full depth display can use most of the time on the A memory bus, dragging system performance to a halt. The rumors are that sometime in March or April Apple will have a new "Mac IIxi", which is supposed to be of the Mac II form factor rather than Mac IIc, which may go between 33MHz and 40MHz, depending on who you listen to. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Systems Engineering) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Too much of everything is just enough
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/13/90)
Dave, you've probably answered this before, but why can't the 2630 use a 28 or 33 MHzer, or at least why doesn't it use one. Also, has the A2620/A2500/20 been discontinued? -- Ethan Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu Compu$erve : 70137,3271 Anyone giving away Amigas or Sharp Scanners??? "I'm a polititian. I lie and steal. When I'm not hugging babies I'm stealing their lollypops" -- Red October (probably mungled)
ammrk@swbatl.sbc.com (Mike R. Kraml) (03/14/90)
In article <10126@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax (Dave Haynie) writes: >In article <1231@swbatl.sbc.com> ammrk@swbatl.UUCP (Mike R. Kraml) writes: >>In article <9010009@hpfcso.HP.COM> dlj@hpfcso.HP.COM (Dave Jobusch) writes: > >>>As for that matter, in the same issue that I saw the Motorola ad, I saw >>>a blurb mentioning a new MacIntosh coming out soon. The "IIci" i think? >>>Anyone have info about that? >> The new Mac IIci is basically a Mac IIcx but with a 25Mhz 030 instead of the >> 16Mhz 030. Otherwise, its about the same. > >Actually, the IIci is a significant improvement over the IIcx; you might >call it the first Mac with an interesting hardware design. It has a respectible >CPU to memory interface, and on-board video that shares time with the CPU, quite >a bit like the way the Amiga's been doing it, at least at a low level. They >even have two memory sets, A (think Chip) and B (think Fast), and just like on >the Amiga, a full depth display can use most of the time on the A memory bus, >dragging system performance to a halt. > >The rumors are that sometime in March or April Apple will have a new "Mac IIxi", >which is supposed to be of the Mac II form factor rather than Mac IIc, which >may go between 33MHz and 40MHz, depending on who you listen to. > Actually that announcment is supposed to be March 19. The name for this new machine is supposed to be the Mac II FX, and its supposed to be 40 MHZ. They will also annouce the A/UX 2.0 (concurrent Mac/Unix) that same day. This info was supplied to me during a demo this week at the St.Louis Apple headquarters, by our Apple/Mac representative. > > >-- >Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Systems Engineering) "The Crew That Never Rests" > {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy > Too much of everything is just enough Catch ya all later, Mike... -- ============================================================================= Mike Kraml - Manager-Separations MECHANIZATION - SWBT - (The Techies) UUCP: {uunet, bellcore, texbell}...!swbatl!slims!ammrk =============================================================================
ag@amix.commodore.com (Keith Gabryelski) (03/14/90)
In article <MWM.90Mar6112901@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike Meyer) writes: >In article <296@amix.commodore.com> ag@amix.commodore.com (Keith Gabryelski) writes: > >>Infact, I just took a current system and removed all networking/man >>pages and things and I ended up with 27meg used. That doesn't seem to >>bad since it was a fully operation R4 system (minus any trace of a >>network). > >That's nice to know. Now, put the man pages back - doing development >sans online man pages isn't a win. Hard copy is acceptable, and you can put them back on if you want. >If you've only got one machine, you don't really need the networking >stuff for development. Unless you're developing networking code, in >which case you also desperately need another machine. Of course, with >another machine and a network, you can use NFS to share non-critical >things so the disk space growth isn't linear. Networking was removed from my example above. Again, the individual parts I removed can be put back. >Which brings up a really strange point - at DEC, we use CI (think of >it as super-SCSI) as an IP pathway. Will Amix allow running IP over a >SCSI net so that those operating on a shoestring budget can get >networking without having to buy the ethernet hardware? Hopefully our price will fit a shoestring budget. Hopefully SLIP will be available. As for you suggestiong, I haven't looked into it. It sounds interesting, though. Pax, Keith -- ag@amix.commodore.com Keith Gabryelski ...!cbmvax!amix!ag
ag@amix.commodore.com (Keith Gabryelski) (03/14/90)
In article <990@calmasd.Prime.COM> cpp@calmasd.Prime.COM (Chuck Peterson) writes: >I'd like to agree with mwm about the importance of the man pages in >unix. The man pages are one of the best things about unix. You can >get nearly complete help without a hardcopy manual, when you need it. >It would be a shame if commodore has to leave them out. My intention WAS NOT to suggest that ANYTHING would be left out of the SVR4 product currently under development by Commodore. My intention WAS to show that once you got your machine home and if, by chance, you felt that the TCP/IP and NFS and other sub-products were just wasting space on your disk, you could remove them and save ooddles of disk space. Pax, Keith -- ag@amix.commodore.com Keith Gabryelski ...!cbmvax!amix!ag
mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amiga have keyboard garages) Meyer) (03/15/90)
>> >That's nice to know. Now, put the man pages back - doing development >> >sans online man pages isn't a win. >> >> Hard copy is acceptable, and you can put them back on if you want. Hard copy may be acceptable to you. Me, I like keeping the stuff in an emacs buffer where it's handy. That's hard to do with hard copy. >> Hopefully our price will fit a shoestring budget. Hopefully SLIP will >> be available. As for you suggestiong, I haven't looked into it. It >> sounds interesting, though. The point of going with SCSI is that it 1) doesn't tie up a possibly much-needed serial or parallel port, and 2) gets much better throughput than either of the above. As an aside, SLIP over the parallel port would also be a nice option. Related to all of this is, of course, the whether or not the shipped system is going to provide enough flexibility that users can add third-party device drivers? <mike -- Cats will be cats and cats will be cool Mike Meyer Cats can be callous and cats can be cruel mwm@relay.pa.dec.com Cats will be cats, remember this words! decwrl!mwm Cats will be cats and cats eat birds.