page@ulowell.UUCP (02/14/87)
kim@amdahl.UUCP (Kim DeVaughn) wrote in article <5663@amdahl.UUCP>: >It is curious that the "mod.amiga" group has been active again ... >we seem to get a few atricles from it about once a week, with most >of the addresses looking like they came from Europe and/or were >gatewayed into Usenet from somewhere. Anyone know what's going on? Here's the whole poop on the moderated Amiga groups. The 'discussion' group is mod.amiga, and the 'sources' groups are mod.amiga.sources and mod.amiga.binaries. The 'discussion' group is 'moderated' from ulowell, and I am the moderator. The sources groups come from Purdue; I don't know what happened to Doc, although Purdue is still on the net. So what do I do, and why are there so few postings, and why are there articles in it now, after a long silence? The news software automagically mails articles posted to mod.amiga to me. I reformat & spell-check the articles (although I haven't been spell-checking them recently), put on the headers the way that news likes them, and post away. There aren't many articles in it because I don't get many. When the Great Renaming took place in the fall, I started posting everything to comp.sys.amiga, since mod.amiga was (reportedly) going away. After a while, I returned to posting to mod.amiga. The articles look like they all come from BITNET or ARPANET because that's where most of them come from. The ARPANET has a mail group called INFO-AMIGA, based out of Rutgers. Eliot Lear, the moderator, just grabs articles posted to comp.sys.amga and mod.amiga, edits/reformats the comp.sys.amiga articles, throws away what he doesn't like, and puts out a digest format - sort of "the best of Usenet's Amiga groups". When a reader responds, it goes to the address INFO-AMIGA@RUTGERS.ARPA, which is really pointed at me. I do my thing here, and Eliot picks it up from mod.amiga for redistribution through the ARPANET. I get very few submissions from USENET - most people prefer to post to the unmoderated group. >Most recently, Mike Meyer sent something to Purdue That would be the sources group. >Not meaning this to be a flame against Doc, but this seems typical of >moderated groups (with a few noteable exceptions like mod.risks and >[usually] mod.sources). Unfortunately, it is typical. (There are other mod groups of high-quality like mod.risks and mod.sources, I suspect you did not list them because you don't read them). Moderators are subject to: >obvious things like doing real work for one's employer, vacations, sickness, >machine outages, busted software, final exams, death, taxes, etc ...)! (For the record, moderators are volunteers). >And this is why I'm against any move to moderate comp.sys.amiga ... >it is just too unreliable The whole concept of moderated groups as we know them is changing, since it is widely recognized that they don't work very well in most configurations. New software is being written, etc. I am against making comp.sys.amiga moderated because the tools to handle the volume do not exist yet. Q: Is comp.sys.amiga going to become moderated? A: Nobody knows just yet. Probably not, but there will be some kind of newsgroup that's moderated, where the S/N level is very high and the traffic isn't overpowering. It will probably be a "best of the unmoderated group" group, for those who just want info and don't care about religious wars or getting the same answer sixteen different times. ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. ulowell!page, page@ulowell.CSNET
doc@j.cc.purdue.edu.UUCP (02/17/87)
Ok, here is the state of comp.sources.amiga or whatever your
favorite name is. I am still the moderator for this group and am doing
my best to get it up and running on the net. Unfortunatly, I am not
totally in control of this.
It seems that a few sites were premature in removing
mod.sources.amiga and replacing it with comp.sources.amiga. That
includes my site and quite a few around me, so in effect, I cannot get
out to all of the people who have mod.sources.amiga still on their
machines. Most of the machines in this area have also created the
newsgroup comp.sources.amiga, so when I was posting quite a few things
earlier, the only sources that I could really check from had my
postings arriving just fine. After I heard from alot of people that
comp.sources.amiga didn't exist everywhere, I got in touch with some of
the higher ups (spaf@gatech, etc.) and found that officially, all
moderated groups that started with anything other than mod do not exist
yet.
Currently I am still trying to get someone to officially create the
group, and hopefully I can get somewhere this week with that. After
that, I am planning on reposting most of the sources I have recieved so
far, including releases of the Shell, DBW's vt100 and many other
programs. Also, after I get my copy of the new Manx compiler (they
have been promising soon for a long time, but I got a Feb. 24th out of
them finally) I plan on posting alot of the binaries with them.
-Docdoc@j.cc.purdue.edu.UUCP (02/19/87)
Just got a letter from Mark Horton, sent to me and a few other Usenet "officials" > >We need to get this group running again. This evidently involves sending >out a newgroup for either mod.amiga.sources or comp.sources.amiga (or >whatever the new and old group names are.) Which do you folks want to do? > > Mark I will keep ya all posted as to what group forms, hope you all can hold on for a bit longer till we get this all ironed out! -Doc
page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (01/11/89)
Hey, you were talking about me while I was away! And I thought my
ears were burning from the sun... I appreciate everybody thinking
about me. Here are some answers, from the mouse's mouth:
I repackage everything that doesn't come in the minimal shar, isn't
uuencoded with CRCs, doesn't use zoo 1.51 (because that's the latest
version available for UNIX, and unix folks have expressed a desire to
manipulate these archives), or is split into small or large pieces.
I do all the unpacking and packing on swan.ulowell.edu, a VAX-750 that
runs 4.3BSD. Soon it will be a MicroVAXII running 4.3-tahoe. When I
test the stuff, it's on my Amiga at home, a 2MB A1000 with hard disk
and one floppy drive, running a modified KS/WB 1.3. I usually move
the code from swan to my amiga via a 2400 bps Zmodem transfer. Since
the call is long distance, I try to put the stuff on an A2000 here at
ULowell via NFS, but it's a bit of a hassle because I need a floppy (I
can never find/remember one) and swan doesn't run NFS, so I have to
copy the stuff to another host first.
The packing/unpacking procedures I use are not yet automated, I am
ashamed to say. I do everything by hand, including naming the files.
Many people responded to my request about anims and the like. The
response was overwhelming - they do not belong on usenet. However,
everybody likes to see them, and would appreciate a way to get at
them, via an archive server or anonymous FTP of some kind. So, I'm
soliciting sites to archive anims, pictures, songs, whatever.
swan.ulowell.edu can't do it; I'm running out of space as it is. I
will no longer accept anims/pictures/etc (non-code) larger than 128k,
and non-code less than 128k will get pushed to the end of the posting
queue. Sure, you can post these monsters to the discussion groups,
but I think you'd be more popular if you didn't.
People sometimes post code to the discussion groups ("oh, it's small"
now replaces "oh, I can't stand the delay"). Just be aware that many
folks won't archive your code, so it will probably get re-invented in
the future.
I never said publicly that I don't test the stuff sent to me. I
suppose the large anims that didn't work prove I didn't test those. I
test a large amount of stuff, but not everything. So how do you tell
what is tested? You don't. I don't consider my job to be tester.
As a moderator, here's what I consider to be my responsibilities,
in no particular order:
0. Keep discussions out of the groups.
1. Filter copyrighted or duplicate material, or anything otherwise
considered not apropos (my judgement, but you haven't heard anybody
complaining I rejected their submission, have you?)
2. Make sure it's complete. I reject/return an amazing amount of
submissions because the submitter forgot something. I also get
a missing header file or a revised .c file a day after the original
submission because the author noticed the omission.
3. Make sure sources don't have 8-bit characters in them. I don't like
hacking sources & documents, but I'll rip out your c-in-circle
character and replace it with (c) if I have to. If there's too
many escape sequences for me to deal with, I'll uuencode it.
4. Make sure binaries don't contain the IRQ virus or similar crap.
Note I haven't started this yet, but I won't post binary code until
I have a scanner.
5. Put the submissions into a 'standard' format.
6. Assign archive index names, for those sites archiving the stuff.
7. Get the submissions out as soon as possible.
This is more than you're going to get from a BBS, private or commercial.
To the suggestion that I post the minimum hardware and software
requirements - I respectfully request you bang on the authors for
this info. If they include it, I will include it.
To the suggestion that I coordinate a stable of testers - it is the
responsibility of the author to test his/her stuff before submitting
it, don't you think? I am not running a software testing service.
If you want to make sure the stuff works before you spend the time to
download it, wait a week or two and find out if anyone has problems.
In that amount of time, people will have tested it better than I could
have.
If any person or group wishes to insert themselves into the pipeline
between the submitter and me, announce it to the world and have the
authors send you code to test. When the author is satisfied that
the testers have given it a clean bill of health, s/he can send it
to me and I will do all the things I described above. I, however,
will not send submissions to a clearinghouse first.
I will repeat that I test much of the stuff, but not everything,
and everything that IS tested gets tested at different levels.
That's why I don't say "this is tested" and "this isn't tested".
I am not being inflexible. I have radically changed the way I package
the code because of comp.sys.amiga input, and I will continue to
encourage suggestions on how I can make the source/binary distribution
service better. However, I will tell you now: I will never say "I
tested this".
Finally, if any person or group is dissatisfied with the moderation
and wants to take on the job [and the rest of the group thinks it's a
Good Thing], I will gladly hand it over.
I have posted 59 source packages and 64 binary packages, many in
multi-parts and some more than once (different versions), in less than
three months. There has been little complaining about stuff not
working, and only now because somebody spent hours downloading an
enormous anim that didn't work. I won't be posting those anymore.
I think testing is a non-issue. If you don't, do something about it.
Your humble servant,
..Bob
--
Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page
Have five nice days.tadguy@cs.odu.edu (Tad Guy) (01/11/89)
In article <11165@swan.ulowell.edu>, page@swan (Bob Page) writes: >use zoo 1.51 (because that's the latest version available for UNIX) Just a reminder that Zoo 2.01 (the current release as far as I know) is available for UNIX from (at least): WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL [26.0.0.74] PD1:<MSDOS-ZOO> XANTH.CS.ODU.EDU [128.82.8.1] /pub/zoo-2.01 If using SIMTEL20, remember to use "TYPE L 8" or "tenex" mode. Use "binary" mode if retrieving it from Xanth. ...tad -- Tad Guy <tadguy@cs.odu.edu> Old Dominion University, Norfolk, VA
tadguy@cs.odu.edu (Tad Guy) (01/11/89)
In article <11165@swan.ulowell.edu>, page@swan (Bob Page) writes: >use zoo 1.51 (because that's the latest version available for UNIX) Just a reminder that Zoo 2.01 (the current release as far as I know) is available for UNIX from (at least): WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL [26.0.0.74] PD1:<MSDOS.ZOO> XANTH.CS.ODU.EDU [128.82.8.1] /pub/zoo-2.01 If using SIMTEL20, remember to use "TYPE L 8" or "tenex" mode. Use "binary" mode if retrieving it from Xanth. ...tad -- Tad Guy <tadguy@cs.odu.edu> Old Dominion University, Norfolk, VA
peter@sugar.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (01/12/89)
I volunteer to test a small number of small programs on my configuration, if you would like to be sure it works on a standard Amiga 1000 with 512K RAM, or an Amiga with no Autoconfig RAM, or an Amiga with 4 MEG of RAM. I will test them to the extent that I tested them for alt.sources.amiga, which includes converting sources so they'll run under Manx if it doesn't take too long. If your Makefile is bizarre (for example, if it has absolute path names in it) I'll edit it. I will then send it on to swan.ulowell.edu. This will take some time, and I don't promise to work as fast as I used to then I was seriously running alt.sources.amiga. No binaries. No assembly. No Modula-2 (I have M2Amiga, but I don't know Modula well enough to convert stuff). Anyone else want to take up the load? -- Peter "Have you hugged your wolf today" da Silva `-_-' Hackercorp. ...texbell!sugar!peter, or peter@sugar.uu.net 'U`
gmg@hcx.uucp (Greg M. Garner) (01/14/89)
Yes, Peter, I'll volunteer to share the test load! If any one would like to send me programs to test, I will test them and send them on to Bob Page. I cannot spend all week on it, but I can do some. I have an Amiga 1000, with supra Hard drive, 65 meg, and a 2Meg starboard, and the 512k internal hack, and 1 external 3.5 drive, and 1 external 5.25 drive. Bob, I think you are doing a great job on the moderation! Have a Rainbow Day! Greg Garner 501-442-4847 gmg@hcx.uucp USENET: ...!uunet!harris.cis.ksu.edu!hcx!gmg
jones@uv4.eglin.af.mil (Calvin Jones, III) (03/17/90)
Jim Locker <Jim.Locker@afitamy.fidonet.org> writes (concerning one of the many flame sessions currently existant...) > I must say that this is probably the most obnoxious exchange I have ever > had the displeasure of seeing come across my monitor. Be patient, there'll certainly be bigger and better things to come. 8-( > Moderator? Do we have to put up with this? I believe that this is an unmoderated newsgroup. Maybe it's time to change that? --- Cal // Cal Jones - Internet: <Jones@UV4.Eglin.AF.Mil> \X/ BBS: 904-243-6219 1200-9600HST 340Meg, all Amiga Single Tasking? *JUST SAY NO!!!*