a1406@mindlink.UUCP (Elise Tarrant) (03/25/90)
> sutherla@qtp.ufl.edu writes: > > Msg-ID: <957@orange9.qtp.ufl.edu> > Posted: 24 Mar 90 23:33:08 GMT > > Org. : University of Florida Quantum Theory Project > Person: scott sutherland > > > Now, there is a program to exchange between the various OBJECT > formats of these programs (Interchange, an invaluable aid to anyone using > the Amiga for animation), but I cannot find any program which will convert > between the various ANIM formats. Is this even possible? If it is, I would > > There isn't a program of this type right now, but there will be shortly. It's > called Animation Bridge and has been under development at our company since > December. We're hoping to have it ready to go by summer 1990 (barring those > problems that always seem to present themselves when you're trying to get > software finished). > The program will take ANY anim file from any existing program that > writes anims and will output to the following (ANIM-5 only): > Animation Station > Deluxe Paint III > AniMagic > The Director > Movie 1.3 (Byte by Byte's SA4D player) > Photon Paint 2.0 > Animation Editor (Hash Enterprizes) > > If there are any other player/editor programs we've missed please let > us know. We've looked at Elan Performer and it has it's own way of dealing > with this problem so we don't support it. Deluxe Video III has no problems > with anything that we've tried here so it doesn't need Animation Bridge. > So, Scott, please bear with us! We're working as fast as we can > without getting sloppy. > > Elise Tarrant > Mythra-mations Animation and Software > 902 West 17 Ave. > Vancouver, BC Canada > V5Z-1V4 > > PS- We're hoping to get Animation Bridge on the market for $42.95 (U.S.)
sutherla@qtp.ufl.edu (scott sutherland) (03/25/90)
I was playing around with both Lights!Camera!Action and AniMagic recently and both will allow me to incorporate animations into either slideshows (LCA) or special video effects (AM). However, there is one serious flaw. Both products are from Aegis, and thus they only support AEGIS/SPARTA format ANIMS. Now, I do most of my animations with TS and SculptAnimate 3D, neither of which create A/S ANIMS. Now, I know that TurboSilver SV has an option to save ANIMS in another format than its own proprietary format (is this the A/S ANIM format? I cannot remember, but I will look it up), so I cannot use any of these fantastic animations (Juggler, Boingmachine, etc) in my presentations. This hurts when I am trying to show off the Amiga to potential buyers. Now, there is a program to exchange between the various OBJECT formats of these programs (Interchange, an invaluable aid to anyone using the Amiga for animation), but I cannot find any program which will convert between the various ANIM formats. Is this even possible? If it is, I would think that someone out there could make quite a bit of $$ for writing an "INTERCHANGE"-style program (by that I mean Modular, with modules for TS, SA, VideoScape, etc.) that will do just that. Finally, will any of the other presentation programs, like the Director or Elan Performer, allow you to use any of the ANIM formats?? LCA could have done this IF they had NOT locked into the program WHICH ANIM PLAYER was to be used. The ideal presentation program should allow you to assign to a given animation which player it requires. This would allow you to stipulate that A/S ANIMs would use ShowAnim, SA anims would use Movie, etc.. This would also allow you to incorporate the latest versions of these players as they became available (like the recent ShowAnim 5.40). Does such a program exist? If not, anyone out there ambitious enough to do so? (My programming ability is not even close enough for me to think about such an undertaking!!). Thanks, Scott Sutherland sutherla@qtp.ufl.edu
baer@qiclab.UUCP (Ken Baer) (03/26/90)
In article <957@orange9.qtp.ufl.edu> sutherla@qtp.ufl.edu (scott sutherland) writes: >However, there is one serious flaw. Both products are from Aegis, >and thus they only support AEGIS/SPARTA format ANIMS. Now, I do most >of my animations with TS and SculptAnimate 3D, neither of which create >A/S ANIMS. I believe the latest version of TS and Sculpt/Animate4D have the option to save in ANIM. Impulse is even using our ANIM player (with permission). > Now, there is a program to exchange between the various OBJECT >formats of these programs (Interchange, an invaluable aid to anyone using >the Amiga for animation), but I cannot find any program which will convert >between the various ANIM formats. Is this even possible? Sure it's possible. My program, Animation:Editor was originally going to just convert animation file formats. However, obtaining code for some of the proprietary formats turned out to be a near impossible task. I lost count of how many times Byte-by-Byte told me "it's in the mail." Luckily, we came up with a solution. We wrote a utility that runs in the background while you use your player program. Our program waits for the screen to change (which varies from player to player), freezes the player, and saves the frames as ANIM. It works with Sculpt4D, TS, Forms-in-Flight, and other formats. The only formats it doesn't work with are ones with players that take over the system (VideoEffects3D for one). The utility is called Capture, and has 2 version. Version 1.0 is in the public domain and saves in the Hash PAC format (not ANIM, but can be played with Display, our ANIM player), and the other is V1.2 that comes with Animation:Editor V1.2 (which saves in ANIMop5). Editor V1.2 is recent, so if you pick it up at a local dealer, you might need to send in for the upgrade ($10), but you also get a non-protected version of Editor that way too. Capture is not copy-protected. > If it is, I would >think that someone out there could make quite a bit of $$ for writing an >"INTERCHANGE"-style program (by that I mean Modular, with modules for TS, >SA, VideoScape, etc.) that will do just that. That's what I used to think. It'd help if someone made the effort to review it. >Scott Sutherland >sutherla@qtp.ufl.edu <apologies to those who object to commercials in any shape or form) -- // -Ken Baer. Programmer/Animator, Hash Enterprises. \X/ Usenet: baer@qiclab.UUCP or PLink: KEN BAER "I want to be an ..... ARCH VILLIAN!!!" -- Petey Pate.
a1406@mindlink.UUCP (Elise Tarrant) (03/26/90)
> baer@qiclab.UUCP writes: > > Msg-ID: <4484@qiclab.UUCP> > Posted: 26 Mar 90 00:09:20 GMT > > Org. : Animators Anonymous, Portland, OR. > Person: Ken Baer > > > I believe the latest version of TS and Sculpt/Animate4D have the option > to save in ANIM. Impulse is even using our ANIM player (with permission). > > V1.2 (which saves in ANIMop5). Editor V1.2 is recent, so if you pick it > up at a local dealer, you might need to send in for the upgrade ($10), > but you also get a non-protected version of Editor that way too. Capture > is not copy-protected. > > > -- > // -Ken Baer. Programmer/Animator, Hash Enterprises. > \X/ Usenet: baer@qiclab.UUCP or PLink: KEN BAER > "I want to be an ..... ARCH VILLIAN!!!" -- Petey Pate. Sculpt-Animate, Turbo-Silver and (I'm sorry to say, Ken) even Animation Editor (at least the version I have) do not completely adhere to the IFF Anim-5 standard. For instance, try one of these combinations: Generate an Anim file with AniMagic and load it into Animation Editor. The program will crash. Generate an anim file with Sculpt-Animate and load it into Animation Station (overscan, interlace). You will see a very small, chopped-up version of your anim file if you try to play it back. Generate an anim file with Turbo-Silver and try playing it back with Movie 2.0 . It won't work, Movie will abort with an error message. (both the Sculpt-Animate and Turbo Silver anim files were generated with the Anim-5 or equivalent option.) Anim-5, as outlined in the IFF docs, is not being adhered to by anyone. That's why we're writing Animation Bridge, to clear up those last few details that will make Anim-5 animation files _truly_ interchangeable. Elise Tarrant Mythra-mations Animation and Software Vancouver, BC. Canada
a1406@mindlink.UUCP (Elise Tarrant) (03/26/90)
I just re-read the message I posted yesterday and realized that I made a small error in the following line: > The program will take ANY anim file from any existing program that > writes anims and will output to the following (ANIM-5 only): It should read: >The program will take ANY _anim_opt_5_ file from any existing program >that writes _anim_opt_5_ "standard" files and will output to the >following (ANIM-5 only): > > Animation Station > Deluxe Paint III > AniMagic > The Director > Movie 1.3 (Byte by Byte's SA4D player) > Photon Paint 2.0 > Animation Editor (Hash Enterprizes) Now, before you say "why a program to convert from Anim-5 to Anim-5", hear me out. No program, with the exception of Deluxe Video III, will load ALL Anim-5 "standard" anim files. Some programs crash, others simply abort with an error message. This type of thing is what Animation Bridge clears up. It's a simple, fast way to get your Sculpt-Animate anim-5 files to play back properly in Animation Station or to get Deluxe Paint III to handle AniMagic (anim-5) and Videoscape 3D (anim-3) files without that annoying "Can't animate with screen larger than page" message popping up. Animation Bridge doesn't handle all the proprietary formats, like J-type compression or the Hash/Turbo-Silver type 'reversible' anim files and we never meant it to. All we're trying to do is clear up those little incompatabilities that can drive you nuts when you know "this is supposed to be compatible" but it isn't. Elise Tarrant Mythra-mations Animation and Software 902 West 17th Ave. Vancouver, BC. Canada V5Z-1V4
baer@qiclab.UUCP (Ken Baer) (03/29/90)
In article <1371@mindlink.UUCP> a1406@mindlink.UUCP (Elise Tarrant) writes: >Sculpt-Animate, Turbo-Silver and (I'm sorry to say, Ken) even Animation Editor >(at least the version I have) do not completely adhere to the IFF Anim-5 >standard. For instance, try one of these combinations: > > Generate an Anim file with AniMagic and load it into Animation Editor. >The program will crash. That was a bug in an old version of Editor. It has since been fixed. In fact all of the IFF and ANIM code has been rewritten. It is now much cleaner, faster, and most importantly, more robust. <stuff about other anim readers deleted> > Anim-5, as outlined in the IFF docs, is not being adhered to by anyone. A pretty pretentious statement. The problem is that the ANIM spec is pretty loose, and many people are interpretting it differently. For example, you can have a colormap for each frame in the ANIM file, but many ANIM programs don't support this (though I wish they did, DPaintIII in particular). As it turns out, most programs that generate ANIM files are within the ANIM spec. The problem is programs that read ANIM files have to be VERY robust. If the ANIM reader can't handle ANIM files with multiple colormaps (the Director had this problem) it won't be able to load files from certain programs. If you have a program that has a problem loading certain ANIM files, contact the developer. It is more often a case of the reader needing to be cleaned up rather than someone violating the ANIM standard when they write out a file. BTW, several ANIM programs put in custom chunks in the ANIM file (in the first frame), a practice I don't particularly care for, but it is still legal according to the docs. Some readers can't handle chunks they don't understand. Not only does Editor follow the ANIM we distribute ANIM code. Martin Hash (prez. of Hash Enterprises) was head of the IFF ANIM committee (not Gary Bonham). I was also involved on hammering out the op5 variant of ANIM, so to suggest that we don't follow a spec we helped write is rather insulting. >That's why we're writing Animation Bridge, to clear up those last few details >that will make Anim-5 animation files _truly_ interchangeable. That was the original idea behind Animation:Editor two years ago. And, many people use it for that purpose. But, I'm afraid you're not first on the market. Editor's been out for 1.5 years already, and gone through several revisions (bug fixes and new features). I'm not trying to bash your product. I hope that you can get it to market and that it will be successful. We can always use more good ANIM tools. But, to bash my program and many others just to hype your product that isn't even available is something I find objectionable. >Elise Tarrant >Mythra-mations Animation and Software >Vancouver, BC. Canada -- // -Ken Baer. Programmer/Animator, Hash Enterprises. \X/ Usenet: baer@qiclab.UUCP or PLink: KEN BAER "I want to be an ..... ARCH VILLIAN!!!" -- Petey Pate.
a1406@mindlink.UUCP (Elise Tarrant) (03/29/90)
> baer@qiclab.UUCP writes: > > Msg-ID: <4528@qiclab.UUCP> > Posted: 28 Mar 90 19:11:51 GMT > > Org. : Animators Anonymous, Portland, OR. > Person: Ken Baer > > > Anim-5, as outlined in the IFF docs, is not being adhered to by > anyone. > > A pretty pretentious statement. The problem is that the ANIM spec is pretty > loose, and many people are interpretting it differently. For example, > > Okay, point taken, Ken. Perhaps I could have said it differently. > How about: Most IFF anim programs need work before someone can use them > all in harmony. Better? :-) > > > (prez. of Hash Enterprises) was head of the IFF ANIM committee (not > Gary Bonham). I was also involved on hammering out the op5 variant of > ANIM, so to suggest that we don't follow a spec we helped write is > rather insulting. > > I'm sorry you feel insulted. That was certainly NOT my intention. And, > while I'm at it, my apologies to Martin Hash also if he felt like you > do about what I said. > > many > people use it for that purpose. But, I'm afraid you're not first on the > market. Editor's been out for 1.5 years already, and gone through several > revisions (bug fixes and new features). > > I'm not trying to bash your product. I hope that you can get it to market > and that it will be successful. We can always use more good ANIM tools. > But, to bash my program and many others just to hype your product that > isn't even available is something I find objectionable. > > My intentions were not to 'bash' your product or to unduly inflate ours. > What I'd like is for all the programs to get updated so that we don't have a > product to sell! I'd rather be animating than dealing with > incompatability problems. I'm glad I can scratch Animation: Editor off > our list of programs that cause problems. When are you going to announce > the availability of the upgrade? > > > -- > // -Ken Baer. Programmer/Animator, Hash Enterprises. > \X/ Usenet: baer@qiclab.UUCP or PLink: KEN BAER > "I want to be an ..... ARCH VILLIAN!!!" -- Petey Pate. Elise Tarrant