BARRETT%FOREST.ECIL.IASTATE.EDU@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Marc Barrett) (03/27/90)
Several months ago, I posted a message to this and another list
entitled "Amiga Fading?" This was a comment about an article in
TIME which compared Commodore's big bashes in New York and Las Angeles
to a party for an aging star. I basically agreed with the article,
and commented that the Amiga, as a serious influence on the computer
industry, is fading fast.
In the last few months since I wrote that message, I have had my
opppinions confirmed over and over and over again. Nobody in the
computer industry pays attention to the Amiga anymore, even in
areas such as multimedia where the Amiga really shines. The Amiga
is rapidly becoming a home computer and game machine, going the
way of the Commodore 64 and Atari ST.
Commodore is developing some Amiga-based UNIX systems, but they
won't really be Amiga systems. The systems will, most likely, be
based on the Lowell video card. From such systems, the Amiga custom
chips could be totally removed from the systems without affecting
the system's marketability as a UNIX system.
I don't really see any hope for the Amiga as it currently is.
The Amiga's custom chips are years out-of-date, and, in the higher-
end machines, will be replaced by the TI 32010 used in the Lowell
card. The operating system is also years out-of-date -- lacking
critical capabilities such as full virtual memory and support for
memory-management units -- and will be replaced by UNIX in the
higher-end machines. Thus, the new higher-end machines can hardly
be called Amigas at all.
I look forward to the new machines, since I am a UNIX fanatic
and am also looking forward to the possibility of finally being
able to use scientific software -- such as Mathematica -- which is
totally lacking for the Amiga. But other people won't be so happy,
because it will mean that the only good software that will be
available for "Amiga" machines in the future will be expensive and
only available for Amiga UNIX.
Is there any real hope for the real, true Amiga? I doubt it.
Commodore has their attentions on UNIX, and the computer industry
doesn't pay attention to the Amiga at all.
Marc Barrettchrisl@caen.engin.umich.edu (Chris Lang) (03/27/90)
In article <15047@snow-white.udel.EDU> BARRETT%FOREST.ECIL.IASTATE.EDU@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > Several months ago, I posted a message to this and another list >entitled "Amiga Fading?" This was a comment about an article in >TIME which compared Commodore's big bashes in New York and Las Angeles >to a party for an aging star. I basically agreed with the article, >and commented that the Amiga, as a serious influence on the computer >industry, is fading fast. As is my patience with your baseless postings to this newsgroup...this is the third posting from you I've read in 10 minutes without the slightest bit of merit. > In the last few months since I wrote that message, I have had my >opppinions confirmed over and over and over again. Nobody in the >computer industry pays attention to the Amiga anymore, even in >areas such as multimedia where the Amiga really shines. The Amiga >is rapidly becoming a home computer and game machine, going the >way of the Commodore 64 and Atari ST. Odd you should say that as the Amiga is steadily beginning to get recognition in multimedia/video production. The release of AmigaVision will no doubt help that immensely, as it is already getting favorable coverage before its release. (Or haven't you actually been READING this newsgroup?) > Commodore is developing some Amiga-based UNIX systems, but they >won't really be Amiga systems. The systems will, most likely, be >based on the Lowell video card. From such systems, the Amiga custom >chips could be totally removed from the systems without affecting >the system's marketability as a UNIX system. More baseless rumors. You have no idea what the final system will look like. While it is probably likely the ULowell card will be an option, I cannot imagine making it a *requirement* to run Unix. And what would removing the custom chips bother you, if indeed it would not affect marketability at all? > I don't really see any hope for the Amiga as it currently is. >The Amiga's custom chips are years out-of-date, and, in the higher- >end machines, will be replaced by the TI 32010 used in the Lowell >card. The operating system is also years out-of-date -- lacking >critical capabilities such as full virtual memory and support for >memory-management units -- and will be replaced by UNIX in the >higher-end machines. Thus, the new higher-end machines can hardly >be called Amigas at all. If you think that everyone who buys higher-end machines will be running Unix on them, you're more out of touch with reality than your postings indicate. AmigaDOS is continuing to grow, and is becoming more mature with every release (granted, it has a ways to go). I agree the custom chips need upgrading, and I am sure Commodore realizes that. They are still, however, the best available for the price. I think you're deluding yourself again if you think that the ULowell card is going to become the new standard for high-end Amiga graphics. It is a special-purpose card, and not everyone is going to run out and buy one just because it's better than the standard Amiga video. Those who need it will buy it, and those who use their Amigas for something other than highly video-intensive pursuits won't. > I look forward to the new machines, since I am a UNIX fanatic >and am also looking forward to the possibility of finally being >able to use scientific software -- such as Mathematica -- which is >totally lacking for the Amiga. But other people won't be so happy, >because it will mean that the only good software that will be >available for "Amiga" machines in the future will be expensive and >only available for Amiga UNIX. You're still working on the absurd assumption that Unix is going to be the only OS around. As much work is being put into 1.4 as into Unix, I am sure, and there are an awful lot of talented developers out there working to provide the "good software" that you think is so impossible. (Being constructive has its merits....you ought to try it sometime.) > Is there any real hope for the real, true Amiga? I doubt it. >Commodore has their attentions on UNIX, and the computer industry >doesn't pay attention to the Amiga at all. Is it any wonder, when they see pouty-faced Amiga users who can only whine and complain that things aren't fair? Until you can prove yourself capable of discussing something in other than blatantly false and unconstructive blather, I don't see how you can expect anyone to take you seriously. > Marc Barrett -Chris -- Chris Lang, University of Michigan, College of Engineering +1 313 763 1832 4622 Bursley, Ann Arbor, MI, 48109 chrisl@caen.engin.umich.edu WORK: National Center for Manufacturing Sciences, 900 Victors Way, Suite 226, Ann Arbor, MI, 48108 +1 313 995 0300 "I hate quotations. Tell me what you know." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
karl@sugar.hackercorp.com (Karl Lehenbauer) (03/27/90)
In article <15047@snow-white.udel.EDU> BARRETT%FOREST.ECIL.IASTATE.EDU@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > Several months ago, I posted a message to this and another list >entitled "Amiga Fading?" This was a comment about an article in >TIME ... I basically agreed with the article, >and commented that the Amiga, as a serious influence on the computer >industry, is fading fast. > In the last few months since I wrote that message, I have had my >opppinions confirmed over and over and over again. ... ...and 50-odd more lines of Amiga-bashing. Fine, detonate your machine and unsuscribe from the group. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Seriously, a lot of messages lately, particularly this one, do not contribute one bit to this group. If your only comment is that the Amiga is worthless, dead and buried, please keep it to yourself, share it with your smirking buddies in a newsgroup for whatever machine you think is really righteous, or forward it to /dev/null. -- -- uunet!sugar!karl "As long as there is a legion of superheros, all else -- can surely be made right." -- Sensor Girl -- Usenet access: (713) 438-5018
bscott@pikes.Colorado.EDU (Ben M Scott) (03/27/90)
In article <5464@sugar.hackercorp.com> karl@sugar.hackercorp.com (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: >In article <15047@snow-white.udel.EDU> BARRETT%FOREST.ECIL.IASTATE.EDU@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: >...and 50-odd more lines of Amiga-bashing. > >Fine, detonate your machine and unsuscribe from the group. Don't let the >door hit your ass on the way out. I'm afraid I must admit to knowing this guy, in fact going to high school with him (he was about 2 years ahead of me), and one thing that always impressed me about him was his consistent ability to make enemies whereever he goes. I now live in another state and still find him here, on FIDOnet and even on the local board I run... On to something more positive and (dare I say) topical: I read in the paper today that Apple has basically won it's suit with Xerox. The judge threw out all the charges except the one relating to Xerox's requesting the copyright for the interface. The reasons were more concerning invalid statutory claims rather than whether or not they had merit. . <<<<Infinite K>>>> -- _______________________________________________________________________________ | | | Someday, I'm going to make up a clever .sig file like everyone else has... | |_____________________________________________________________________________|
jonabbey@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Jonathan Abbey) (03/28/90)
Karl Lehenbauer writes: | Marc Barrett writes: | Several months ago, I posted a message to this and another list | entitled "Amiga Fading?" This was a comment about an article in | TIME ... I basically agreed with the article, | and commented that the Amiga, as a serious influence on the computer | industry, is fading fast. | In the last few months since I wrote that message, I have had my | opppinions confirmed over and over and over again. ... |----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |...and 50-odd more lines of Amiga-bashing. | |Fine, detonate your machine and unsuscribe from the group. Don't let the |door hit your ass on the way out. | |Seriously, a lot of messages lately, particularly this one, do not contribute |one bit to this group. If your only comment is that the Amiga is worthless, |dead and buried, please keep it to yourself, share it with your smirking |buddies in a newsgroup for whatever machine you think is really righteous, |or forward it to /dev/null. I'm afraid I don't agree with you here at all, Karl - I think Marc is quite correct in what he is saying. I have had my Amiga since mid nov. 85, and have been a voracious reader of everything I could get my hands on about the Amiga and other machines since, have done a good deal of programming on the Amiga, and in general have devoted a large deal of time to it (albeit unprofessionally - I'm a bit busy with my education these days). The point is, I love the Amiga as much as anyone. But I also fancy myself a realist. Take a look at a MacWorld, or a PC Week, or any other mainstream computer publication. With the exception of the increasing coverage in BYTE recently (in anticipation of the introduction of the A3000, I suspect), the Amiga is pretty much not to be seen. And, given the state of the Amiga software (both system and application) and the general ratio of Amigas to PC's and Macintoshi, I feel this is pretty much justified. The only problem I have with the media attention is how often the Amiga is left out of articles on Multi-media in deference to what Microsoft is cooking up. But honestly, with Commodore as they have been, and the state of the Amiga system resulting from that, you can't expect much else. The Amiga is as alive as it is today (quite, that is) because it provides to the average person far more than can be got from a PC or Macintosh, particularly in terms of home usage. i.e., non-professional. The software just isn't there to address the needs of the general business / professional computing population. In video, music and multimedia, the software is there (especially with AmigaVision.. look for that one program to make a *big* difference in the Amiga's future! Good job, guys!), and attention is being given to the Amiga accordingly. Acknowledging this publicly is quite objective, and certainly belongs in this forum. I tend to disagree with Marc on a few points though. I believe Unix can give Commodore a good deal of sales if the A3000 is done well and they can put it out at an attractive price point. Going against Sun, Apollo, IBM and now Apple in the workstation market will be murderous, though. It will have to be a Unix workstation for the rest of us 8-) to have a real impact. And it may very well succeed in doing so. Commodore's education thrust is a mildly brilliant move, with AmigaVision and other products addressing the personal authoring market (Electronic Arts, The Right Answers Group, etc.) providing the impetous for educational purchasing, in the K-12 levels especially. Unix complements this nicely in the college market. The challenge will be establishing the software base that will give the college market a reason to buy an Amiga over a heavily marketed Macintosh with a solid existing base of college users and a large collection of software applicable to the college user. (Mathematica and all those really nifty word processing and desktop publishing products leap to mind) Desktop Video/Multi-media is probably not as large a market as is the set of College students who would like to use a Macintosh to do their papers on. Commodore has, to put it mildly, an uphill struggle. But Harry Copperman impresses me mightily. The Amiga may actually have a chance to come around with he and his crew at the helm. It all depends on he (and us in the Amiga community) developing the products necessary to make the Amiga something that is not only technically superior but, damn it, a product that folks simply can't do without because you just can't do the things an Amiga can do on other machines. That is how the Macintosh has achieved its success, and that is what the Amiga needs, if it is to distinguish itself from the computer commodity market. The Amiga needs to produce a demand. And I think Mr. Copperman has chosen just about the best possible path to do so, realistically. But we who care about the Amiga are going to have to work with him and help get the Amiga to the point where the economy of the Amiga market will support large companies like Aldus, and so on. I think Marc's pointing this out is *highly* appropriate to this newsgroup, and I commend him. Flames are not only un-called for, but are counterproductive to the Amiga's well-being and unrealistic. Personally, I'm hoping to gain employment at Commodore after I graduate.. or at Lotus. 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) |-- uunet!sugar!karl "As long as there is a legion of superheros, all else |>-- can surely be made right." -- Sensor Girl |>-- Usenet access: (713) 438-5018 Incidentally, while typing this message in, I got my first look at a Lynx. WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW !!! It reminds me of my first look at an Amiga.. wonder why? 8-) Jonathan Abbey (512) 926-5934 | Amiga Programmer Wanna-be jonabbey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu bix: jonabbey +----------------------------- The University of Texas at Austin - CS Undergrad | Speaking for myself, at best
jonabbey@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Jonathan Abbey) (03/28/90)
Ben M Scott writes: |On to something more positive and (dare I say) topical: I read in the paper |today that Apple has basically won it's suit with Xerox. The judge threw out |all the charges except the one relating to Xerox's requesting the copyright |for the interface. The reasons were more concerning invalid statutory claims |rather than whether or not they had merit. Sigh... I guess I agree with such a ruling, but it's a pity it wasn't a bit more drawn out.. Apple really has caused a heck of a nuisance with their law suits, especially given that their work was based on Xerox's. |. <<<<Infinite K>>>> Jonathan Abbey (512) 926-5934 | Amiga Programmer Wanna-be jonabbey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu bix: jonabbey +----------------------------- The University of Texas at Austin - CS Undergrad | Speaking for myself, at best
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/28/90)
I've heard many arguments here that the Amiga has no potential, that the Amiga is and always will be a home computer, ... Also a lot of very opinionated people just saying how much better the competition is. Although the Amiga has drawbacks, I don't think the hardware is it. A 25MHz 68030 is quite fast, and as the Personal Workstation (MIPS?) article said, a 33MHz Amiga (with GVP) rated better than Macs AND Apollos at the same speed. So speed isn't it. Also, some people dislike the Amiga interface. TAKE A LOOK AT MS-WINDOWS AND OS/2! I would much prefer the Amiga interface to any other besides the Macintosh and MAYBE the NeXT. And who knows what 1.4 will do to the look. As I said, there is a downside. I think that is software and networking availability. There is so much BAD software that if you don't have someone helping you pick out software you are likely to choose wrong and suffer the consequences, and also think badly of the Amiga. There is a lot of good software too, but in the Word Processing arena there is nothing of the level of Mac Microsoft Word, no spreadsheet (that I have seen) of the level of Lotus or Excel. I have heard too many good things about SuperBase, so I will assume it is as good as dBASE (not saying much). I see a lot of merit in what Gold Disk is doing, integrating several different kinds of programs. However, there are failings in the current level of Amiga software. Re networking, there is now Amiganet, EtherNet and DecNet and Commodore is coming out with Novell. X-Windows is already here. The networking problem is getting better. Basically, IMHO (And there have been a lot of not-so HO's recently), before Copperman, things seemed pretty bad. However, it has been one year since he took control and things do seem to be changing. It is too soon to judge what he can or can't do. The A3000 and 1.4, along with Unix, DO have the potential to turn things around. There HAS been a lot of coverage of the Amiga recently, in Byte, Personal Workstation, Publish, AV/Video. In fact, AV/Video bought a booth at AmiExpo to show their committment. I'd say this is definitely an improvement in coverage. Give him 6 more months and see what products are released in the interim. Then judge. BTW, the people in Europe have a completely different perspective. They don't know what the heck a Macintosh is, yet they have tons of Amigas. -- Ethan Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu "If Commodore had to market sushi they'd call it `raw cold fish'" -- The Bandito, inevitably stolen from someone else
fiddler@concertina.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) (03/28/90)
In article <5464@sugar.hackercorp.com>, karl@sugar.hackercorp.com (Karl Lehenbauer) writes: > > Seriously, a lot of messages lately, particularly this one, do not contribute > one bit to this group. If your only comment is that the Amiga is worthless, > dead and buried, please keep it to yourself, share it with your smirking > buddies in a newsgroup for whatever machine you think is really righteous, > or forward it to /dev/null. Actually, the messages you're referring to sound more like they're from people who really like the Amiga and see a lot of unrealized potential in it. They don't say it's worthless, but underdeveloped, not being advanced enough as time passes. If they'd thought it worthless, there'd have been no such articles at all. Not worth the time and effort to type out. In spite of the best efforts of the Amiga engineers, it seems quite evident that CBM has not had it uppermost in the corporate priority list. You can ignore any unfavorable comments, deserved or not, and go on with business as usual...or you can put some effort into seeing if any of the comments are based on reality. And seeing whether they addressed anything needing fixing that could be fixed. Which one is going to buy you the most benefit in the long run? The marketplace isn't going to care about what was or what might have been, but what it sees now. ------------ "...Then anyone who leaves behind him a written manual, and likewise anyone who receives it, in the belief that such writing will be clear and certain, must be exceedingly simple-minded..." Plato, _Phaedrus_
ag@amix.commodore.com (Keith Gabryelski) (03/28/90)
In article <15047@snow-white.udel.EDU> BARRETT%FOREST.ECIL.IASTATE.EDU@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: >Commodore is developing some Amiga-based UNIX systems, but they won't >really be Amiga systems. The systems will, most likely, be based on >the Lowell video card. Hello, and welcome to another edition of "State Your Claim". Last week, Mrs. Mittelschmitt of Dundee claimed to be able to, and I quote, "Burrow through an elephant". Well, we all saw what happened to her. This week, please welcome our new contestant, Keith Gabryelski of, 12 SpeedBump Lane, West Chester. In his letter, he claims... Mr. Gabryelski what is your claim? "That the Amiga-based UNIX system that Commodore is developing is in fact an Amiga system, does make good use of the amiga chip set, and is not based on the University of Lowell video card." As our audience knows, they are now invited to disprove Mr. Gabryelski's claim. And if they succeed, this week's contestant gets a 16-ton weight dropped on his head. >From such systems, the Amiga custom chips could be totally removed >from the systems without affecting the system's marketability as a >UNIX system. The fact that one can plug in another video card into the amiga and have everything magically work without having to use the internal amiga chip set is a good thing, but, under the current plan, you get more. If one decides to use the Lowell Card one will be able to use it as a console by itself or in addition to the standard amiga monitor as an extra screen. Pax, Keith -- ag@amix.commodore.com Keith Gabryelski ...!cbmvax!amix!ag
nobody@acsu.Buffalo.EDU (nobody) (03/28/90)
From: swann@acsu.Buffalo.EDU (stephen swann)
Path: swann
I don't know about what's going on in the video/animation industry,
but I can see there's a controversy about how C= is handling their place in
the market. I see a problem at another level, though: the home/personal
computer market. The Amiga is a damn fine machine (insult my Amiga, you
insult me! :-), but it just isn't being pushed like it should. I worked
on an IBM, doing MS-Windows applications for about a year (my intro to
personal computers). When I saw my first A500, I couldn't believe it was
the same species of computer as the PCs or Macs I was familiar with.
A couple months ago, when a non computer-literate friend of mine asked
me to recommend a personal computer for
1.) word processing
2.) dialing up his mainframe account
3.) learning some programming
4.) (yes) playing games
I thought about it for a while, then took a gamble (read that: "followed my
heart") and recommended an Amiga. I got one too, to show that I wasn't
taking him for a ride :-). Now, with hindsight, I would STILL make that
decision.
BUT, (and this is my point), it hasn't exactly been a honeymoon.
This computer is really rewarding, but it has a high learning curve, and
there's not a lot of help to be found. The Amiga community is great, what
there is of it, but it's hard to find people who know the Amiga. Most of
the people I talk to at University (I'm referring to the CS dept, too!),
think of the Amiga as a toy computer, like the C64.
What would really help is if C= were to continue it's educational
discounts, and even more, if it were PUSH for the college market. The
Amiga practically sells itself, if someone is so much as EXPOSED to it.
Commodore needs a college -presence-, like IBM and Apple have. Reps
visiting campuses, to show off the computer (and the software, especially
the academic stuff, math packages, word processing stuff, etc). Show
people on campus that the Amiga -is- a viable alternative. Make the
educational discounts -known of-. I haven't heard a thing about them off
of the Usenet, and anybody who doesn't already own an Amiga isn't likely
to be reading c.s.amiga, is he?
I think with a little help from it's friends, C= could walk away
with the college market. Face it, most people who SEE an Amiga want one,
and it's NOT that expensive. You can put together an A500 with 1meg,
external floppy, 2400 baud modem, and letter quality printer for what,
maybe $1300? I'm basing that on CBM's college discounts, which are about
to become unavailable, TOO SOON. Before practically anyone outside the
Amiga users community even knows about them. I stumbled accross the Amiga
by chance, and I bought one. If that hadn't happened, I would have made an
"IBM or Mac" decision. I would have got an IBM so I could hack. My friend
would have bought a Mac for the GUI. That happens to -how many- people, who
have simply never heard of the Amiga? Or worse, have heard that it is a
toy computer, and have never -seen- one, so as to know better.
Oh, well, I'm sure people have been railing at CBM about this for
years. What bothers me is that the Amiga is an eminently "sell-able"
product, it practically does all the work itself, if it is just SEEN.
I would love to see the Amiga succeed in a big way, because I like
mine immensely, and I know they could sell them like hotcakes and get
the -rest- of the college community using these great machines instead
of the ones made by "those other companies". :-)
Steve S.
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/ "They seem oblivious to a soft spring rain, like an English \
| rain; so light, yet endless, from a leaden sky..." - Rush |
\ v061q3x6@ubvmsa.bitnet | swann@autarch.acsu.buffalo.edu /
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>Item: 6254 by *Masked* at cunyvm.cuny.edu >Author: [Marc Barrett] > Subj: Amiga Fading? : Revisited > Keyw: > Keyw: > Date: Tue Mar 27 1990 06:24 Oh boy -- I get to do this twice in one day ?!?!?! >entitled "Amiga Fading?" This was a comment about an article in >TIME which compared Commodore's big bashes in New York and Las Angeles TIME magazine , well know industry source for timely computer information. >card. The operating system is also years out-of-date -- lacking >critical capabilities such as full virtual memory and support for >memory-management units -- and will be replaced by UNIX in the The same applies to a bunc of OS's that the "industry" likes. The MAC OS and DOS are worthless for either of those (ok, the MAC doesn't need it - no multitasking, and MS-DOS doesnt either). >higher-end machines. Thus, the new higher-end machines can hardly >be called Amigas at all. On the contrary. "Amiga" is a state of mind. You aren't in it (because you seem to be perfectly able to spout rumors and propoganda) .. > > I look forward to the new machines, since I am a UNIX fanatic >and am also looking forward to the possibility of finally being Well, I like UNIX too - thats why I like the Amiga. > Is there any real hope for the real, true Amiga? I doubt it. >Commodore has their attentions on UNIX, and the computer industry >doesn't pay attention to the Amiga at all. Define real true Amiga -- so far you have said that any change make it a "non-amiga" .. so how can it grow ?? **************************************************************************** Extra-Terrestrials from Alpha Centauri Claim: "Lana Turner Was One Of Us". Everything I say is Copr. 1990, except the stuff I stole from someone else and the stuff I don't want responsibility for. Kenneth J. Jamieson: Xanadu Enterprises Inc. "Professional Amiga Software" UUCP: tron1@tronsbox.UUCP BEST PATH ---> uunet!tronsbox!tron1 Sysop, Romantic Encounters BBS - (201)759-8450 / (201)759-8568 ****************************************************************************
phoenix@ms.uky.edu (R'ykandar Korra'ti) (03/28/90)
In article <26994@ut-emx.UUCP> jonabbey@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Jonathan Abbey) writes: >The Amiga is as alive as it is today (quite, that is) because it provides >to the average person far more than can be got from a PC or Macintosh, >particularly in terms of home usage. i.e., non-professional. I'm a paid professional writer. I use an Amiga. I publish a nationally distributed magazine. Using an Amiga. Are these "non-professional" activities? I've used equivalant software on clones. I own an actual IBM. I use it as a typewriter when the Amigas are all busy. I wouldn't go back if you paid me to do so. The interfaces are horrible, the task communication doesn't exist, (neither do the tasks, for that matter. Just say "no" to single-tasking systems), and both of those make my jobs lots harder. And I won't even talk about the corresponding equipment costs... - R'ykandar. -- | R'ykandar Korra'ti | Editor, LOW ORBIT | PLink: Skywise | CIS 72406,370 | | Elfinkind, Unite! | phoenix@ms.uky.edu | phoenix%ms.uky.edu@ukcc.bitnet | | "Careful, mom, the toys are loose!" - from The Wizard of Speed and Time |
nrjwong@lion.waterloo.edu (03/29/90)
In article <1990Mar27.215908.24233@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > > I've heard many arguments here that the Amiga has no >potential, that the Amiga is and always will be a home computer, ... >Also a lot of very opinionated people just saying how much better the >competition is. Although the Amiga has drawbacks, I don't think the >hardware is it. A 25MHz 68030 is quite fast, and as the Personal >Workstation (MIPS?) article said, a 33MHz Amiga (with GVP) rated >better than Macs AND Apollos at the same speed. So speed isn't it. Ever played F-18 Interceptor on a 2500 - REAL NICE. >Also, some people dislike the Amiga interface. TAKE A LOOK AT >MS-WINDOWS AND OS/2! I would much prefer the Amiga interface to any >other besides the Macintosh and MAYBE the NeXT. And who knows what 1.4 >will do to the look. As John Dvorak said about MS Windows, aesthetics is something that you have to work at. It isn't an easy task. I don't think the Amiga is aesthetically pleasing, at least not a stock Amiga. Just my opinion. Consistency guidelines would also help here. Are there any available for developers? > As I said, there is a downside. I think that is software and >networking availability. There is so much BAD software that if you >don't have someone helping you pick out software you are likely to >choose wrong and suffer the consequences, and also think badly of the >Amiga. There is a lot of good software too, but in the Word Processing >arena there is nothing of the level of Mac Microsoft Word, no >spreadsheet (that I have seen) of the level of Lotus or Excel. I have >heard too many good things about SuperBase, so I will assume it is as >good as dBASE (not saying much). I see a lot of merit in what Gold >Disk is doing, integrating several different kinds of programs. >However, there are failings in the current level of Amiga software. > Re networking, there is now Amiganet, EtherNet and DecNet and >Commodore is coming out with Novell. X-Windows is already here. The >networking problem is getting better. > Basically, IMHO (And there have been a lot of not-so HO's >recently), before Copperman, things seemed pretty bad. However, it has >been one year since he took control and things do seem to be changing. >It is too soon to judge what he can or can't do. The A3000 and 1.4, >along with Unix, DO have the potential to turn things around. There >HAS been a lot of coverage of the Amiga recently, in Byte, Personal >Workstation, Publish, AV/Video. In fact, AV/Video bought a booth at >AmiExpo to show their committment. I'd say this is definitely an >improvement in coverage. Give him 6 more months and see what products >are released in the interim. Then judge. The main driving force in the computer industry are the big corporations and government. The main reason for Apple's A/UX and parity memory is so they can be considered for government contracts. Microsoft just stated that they would be providing SGML ( or whatever the acronym is, it's a markup language standard used by the government) for their Microsoft Word for Windows word processor. MS will have a shot at huge orders when they incorporate this feature. Why do you think anyone is even interested in Ada? :-) There are about 10 million PC clones out there, 1-2 million Macs and ~1 million Amigas. For a software manufacturer, getting even 10% share of the PC market is a lot easier than trying for 100% of the Amiga market. These days, big corporations are standardising on hardware and software. Commodore will have to push hard in order to get the Amiga into corporations these days. The software, other than Wordperfect, just isn't there. Of the software that is available, big corporations like getting support for things they purchase or acquire. Who is willing to do that? Freeware/Shareware/PDware won't cut it unless they get someone to support the stuff in-house [i.e. unlikely]. Commodore marketing is still lost, IMHO. The teenager commercials don't give the right image to entice big business. Multimedia is Commodore's big weapon - just that the maturity level of the commercials has to go up a notch or two. > BTW, the people in Europe have a completely different >perspective. They don't know what the heck a Macintosh is, yet they >have tons of Amigas. > -- Ethan > But, most of these machines tend to be A500's with only 512K. How many programs other than games will run in 512K? Fancy graphics and sound needs memory. Ever tried GoldDisk's MovieSetter in 512K? It's a contortion exercise since the player and movie designer can't fit into memory at once. >Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu > >"If Commodore had to market sushi they'd call it `raw cold fish'" > -- The Bandito, inevitably stolen from someone else I'm a power user. I'll admit that. But for people who already have a PC clone or Mac and just do the odd bit of word processing or database/spreadsheet stuff, what will the Amiga offer to make them switch over? The differences aren't that great for them to make'em switch. They've already spent enough time learning how to use their machine and software. Why should they change? Unless the Amiga can offer something they need that their current resources can't handle, they won't change. People still use C64's and Apple II's. This industry is driven by technology. You won't get far standing still in this industry. Hopefully Commodore will be able to recover from a few years of standing around. Johnny Lee Standard Disclaimer.
neil@celia.UUCP (Neil Richmond) (03/29/90)
AI would like to point out that a video industry magazine AVideo has recently added two amiga articles to its format. One is an Amiga corner type format and the other is a monthly feature on the Amiga. neil -- " Give a skeptic an inch and he'll measure it. " Neil F. Richmond (celia!neil@tis.llnl.gov, ....!ames!lll-tis!celia!neil)
mapjilg@bath.ac.uk (J I L Gold) (03/29/90)
A lot of folks have been gassing and flaming C= and the Amiga in
general recently. This depresses me :-( What did they buy their
Amigas for ? So that they could show off this amazing new aspect of
their personality ("Hey girls, look at me, I've got an Amiga and
it's got custom chips, half a meg of ram, a *real* sexy disk drive
and a BIIIIIGGGG power supply.") I've only had my A500 for 8 months,
yet when all else has deserted me, Ami has kept me amused (yes, and
my girlfriend too) on those long cold winter evenings when there's
f**k all to do. Programming it is fun and a challenge. The games are
the best around. It allows me to be creative artistically and musically,
as well as just computationally. I KNOW it's not the "best" computer
around, but since I'm not using it for some ego trip that bothers me
not a jot. The fact is, most of us know it as well, but that doesn't
stop us loving the machine.
It bothers me even less that it might be ignored by industry,
since that doesn't affect what I get out of it ("well I'VE got a C=
computer and you've only got an IBM so YOU'RE paying a visit to Mr.
Liquidator"). Why can't these guys stop whingeing and try and re-capture
some of the fun that can be had out of using the computer rather than
worrying about someone having a better toy than they have?
--
# J.Gold | mapjilg@uk.ac.bath.gdr #
# University of Bath , UK | jilg@uk.ac.bath.maths #