lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (03/27/90)
In <5526@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>, bgribble@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Bill Gribble) writes: >I'm a faithful Amiga owner - I've had mine for over 3 years, and have > been happy all the time. I invested an additional $500 for expansion > about 2 weeks ago without hesitation - and 500 smacks is a *lot* of > money to a starving college student. But I've been reading all this - > to put it mildly - pessimistic stuff about the Amiga's future, and > I'm beginning to wonder, too. Why are you a 'faithful' Amiga owner? The reason I ask is that there really are good and not-so-good reasons for being 'faithful'. If you have some sort of loyalty to CBM as a company, or if you feel that you have to justify your purchase by remaining loyal to the machine, then you are probably doing so for the wrong reasons. On the other hand, if you think that the machine is the best one for you, for what you use it for; for technical reasons; for the 'philosophy inherent in the machine/OS, then you are probably looking at things the right way. There will always be the whiners and bitchers. We had them in late '85 when the machine was new, in '86, '87, and so on. We have heard from the doomsayers for all this time, yet the machine survives; more than survives. True, it is not now, and may never be, as rampant as the MsDos machines, but then not everything that's rampant is rampant for good reasons, or even desirable; witness the bubonic plague. The real question is; will the machine be around for a long time, in one form or another, and will it continue to be what _YOU_ want it to be, at a price you can afford? If you can answer that for yourself, for your situation and machine usage, then you will know whether or not to continue to support the product with your wallet, regardless of what the Marc Barretts of the world spew forth in their pessimism. If you can't, you have to pretty much wing it, but basically, take a look at what you have. Right now. Is it serving you well? Are you enjoying it? I look around here, and tell you that I have never had so much fun with a computer before, and I have been in the business since 1966, and have been a hobbyist since 1975. >What *does* the future hold for Commodore and the Amiga? I see some > dichotomy between the user community's opinions (either really > down on the Amiga or saying 'Hey - even if it's true, keep a > smile on your face!') and those of the Commodore people who > post - notably the Amix people - who seem pretty optimistic, > even though they might be out jobs if things went bad. I don't know what the future holds for CBM and the Amiga. Personally, I don't give it a lot of thought, until I see some idiot ranting about the imminent demise of the machine. My thoughts are then along the lines of 'It ain't dead in this neck of the woods'. I don't apologize for my view of the Amiga. As with any machine, you are buying more than just hardware and software. You are buying capability and philosophy, of which I see very little (for my purposes), in the Mac of the IBM arena, that suits me. I see a lot of those qualities in my Amiga. Bottom line is, I still have an Amiga, and am looking forward to the next generation, whether it comes from CBM or comes from a completely different company in the form of a completely different machine. Unlike many many folks who own the machine and long for the Ashton-Tates, the Microsofts, and the Lotuses to jump in, I really don't care. At all. Unlike owners who look at the latest Macs and hunger for 24 bit colour, I look at my Amiga and see a competent multitasker that not only feels better, but beats the snot out of any equivalent Mac for speed, and does it for less money, and doesn't saddle me with fascism in user interface requirements. >So what's the deal? Is 1.4 really going to make that big of a difference? > What's the state of development on upcoming goodies? My plan right > now is to stick with my Amiga for three more years - will there > be an up-to-date '030 or '040 C= machine to replace it? Or will we > still be waiting for the 3000? I don't know the answer to the 1.4 question either, and I really don't care. I hear complaints all the time about how kludgy and amateurish the Amiga's GUI looks. I hear people say that the Mac's GUI is a lot better. I hear that you can buy a 386 clone and run PM on it for less money. Well, I doubt it will surprise you when I say that I don't agree with them, and that I just don't care what _they_ think of the Amiga or its user interface. Does the Mac follow Amiga philosophy of allowing creativity in user interface design? Does the clone have a processor that can be programmed without bending your brain around concepts designed in the early 70s? Are either of the main competition's machines ever going to come even close to the look and feel of the Amiga? If not, they aren't worth a pound of donkey shit to me. Others may disagree. I don't care. They are entitled to their opinion. I just wish they'd take Karl's advice, and be careful not to let the the door slam on their ass on the way out. >I'm writing this to spark some discussion, so flame away! Well, we already have a fair bit of discussion on the subject, and despite my good intentions, I couldn't help but jump in when I saw that a normally happy Amiga owner was starting to be influenced by coments from the peanut gallery. -larry -- Entomology bugs me. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
bgribble@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Bill Gribble) (03/28/90)
I'm a faithful Amiga owner - I've had mine for over 3 years, and have
been happy all the time. I invested an additional $500 for expansion
about 2 weeks ago without hesitation - and 500 smacks is a *lot* of
money to a starving college student. But I've been reading all this -
to put it mildly - pessimistic stuff about the Amiga's future, and
I'm beginning to wonder, too.
What *does* the future hold for Commodore and the Amiga? I see some
dichotomy between the user community's opinions (either really
down on the Amiga or saying 'Hey - even if it's true, keep a
smile on your face!') and those of the Commodore people who
post - notably the Amix people - who seem pretty optimistic,
even though they might be out jobs if things went bad.
So what's the deal? Is 1.4 really going to make that big of a difference?
What's the state of development on upcoming goodies? My plan right
now is to stick with my Amiga for three more years - will there
be an up-to-date '030 or '040 C= machine to replace it? Or will we
still be waiting for the 3000?
I'm writing this to spark some discussion, so flame away!
Bill.
=============================================================================
===== Bill Gribble Internet: bgribble@jarthur.claremont.edu =====
===== Harvey Mudd College wgribble@hmcvax.claremont.edu =====
===== Claremont, CA 91711 Bitnet: wgribble@hmcvax.bitnet =====
===== (714) 621-8000 x2045 =====
=============================================================================es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/28/90)
In article <5526@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> bgribble@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Bill Gribble) writes: >I'm a faithful Amiga owner - I've had mine for over 3 years, and have > been happy all the time. I invested an additional $500 for expansion > about 2 weeks ago without hesitation - and 500 smacks is a *lot* of > money to a starving college student. But I've been reading all this - > to put it mildly - pessimistic stuff about the Amiga's future, and > I'm beginning to wonder, too. Bill, I ask you to take a look at all these pessimistic message and ask yourself: how many people are spouting pessimism? One person, Marc Barrett, is spouting 95% of it. Some people are agreeing on some points. I agree that the Amiga has a catch up job to play. However, take a look at most of the replies: they are all telling Marc where to put his stupid comments. Please, take a look at the comments being espoused and try to find the substances: I can't. Commodore's largest problem is an image problem. It has nothing to do with the quality of the machine, simply public perception of Commodore. Until recently, Commodore has been run as a low costs/high profit company, with as little expenditure as possible. This has all been turned around by Harry Copperman. Commodore is the ONLY computer company doing large scale hiring. Most companies are firing. The educational division used to be two people, there are now around 10 I believe and it is going to around 27. All the right people are being hired, most of them from Apple, including the COO of CBM US, the marketing specialist, the education head, ... Commodore really has to turn around, and one year (which is how long Copperman has been around so far) is not enough to really begin to show results. I think the best signs for the future are as follows: Sales continue to grow. At AmiExpo, there were representatives from companies not normally associated with Commodore, such as Sharp, Canon and AV/Video magazine. The Amiga HAS been covered much more in the past two months than it had been the whole year before, with articles in most major video magazines. Commodore has been INVITED by AT&T to be in their booths whereever AT&T shows unix publically. Also, lastly, remember: we are seeing a very limited perspective. Imagine how different things are in Europe. Especially Germany. According to the annual report, 80% of all home computers sold in Germany are Amigas and CBM is second only to IBM in business machines sold in Germany. -- Ethan Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu "If Commodore had to market sushi they'd call it `raw cold fish'" -- The Bandito, inevitably stolen from someone else
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (03/30/90)
In-Reply-To: message from es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu And let us not forget what a formidable job Mr. Copperman has! He's cleaning up after quite a few cruddy CEOs. Living proof is ATARI...do you see Tramiel doing any better over there? 5 years of garbage is a big job for anyone. Things'll just take some time...give the guy a break, he's just getting things going right now. Sean //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc | ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil | " I drank what? " INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com | -Socrates | RealWorld: Sean Cunningham | Voice: (512) 994-1602 | | Call C.B.A.U.G. BBS (512) 883-8351 w/SkyPix | B^) VISION GRAPHICS B^) \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\