lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (04/13/90)
In <606@celia.UUCP>, neil@celia.UUCP (Neil Richmond) writes: >In article <79198@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> <watters@cis.ohio-state.edu> writes: >>From tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ucsd!sdcsvax!beowulf!velasco Fri Apr 13 01:26:45 EDT 1990 > >(deleted stuff) > >>/ - 4 new Zorro III expansion slots; > >Is this true at all? That the A3000 still will use a Zorro bus? This is the >same bus now used in the A2xxx series, right? Rumor aside, which the posting in question is, the 2000 has a Zorro II bus, not a Zorro III. -larry -- Entomology bugs me. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
david_r_watters@penguin.cis.ohio-state.edu (04/13/90)
From tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ucsd!sdcsvax!beowulf!velasco Fri Apr 13 01:26:45 EDT 1990
/ From a good source...
/
/ - 68030/881 @ 16 MHz or 68030/822 @ 25 Mhz
/ - Amiga Enhanced Chip Set
/ - 1 Meg Chip RAM expandable to 2 Meg on board
/ - 1 Meg Fast RAM expandable to 4 Meg on board
/ - Built in Display Enhancer
/ - Internal SCSI Hard Drive (50 Mbyte planned)
/ - Internal Real Time Clock w/RAM
/ - 4 new Zorro III expansion slots;
( Lots of badly need enhancements deleted....)
/Will cost less than a comparably equipped A2500 because of the use of the
^^^^
/three custom Amiga chips and five custom gate arrays.
I am having a very SERIOUS time follwing CBM's reasoning lately. I realize
the above is not gospel, but lately I have been hearing very similar specs and
stories from some VERY inside friends.
My problem is this; Why did CBM spend a lot of time and money getting 1000
owners to turn in their machine for a 2000 series, and even more time and money
getting us Educators/Students/Schools to go out and buy lots of 2000's, both
before quickly aproaching deadlines, and then turn around and make the 2000
line obsolete.
Don't get me wrong, I want the 3000 to be a complete overhaul as much as
anyone, but why on Earth didn't they wait and do the 1000 and Education deals
AFTER the 3000 was released.
What about all the new A2500/30 owners? Are you telling me that MY _3_ day
old 2500/30 $3000++ machine is going to be obsolete in a matter of days or
weeks to something that is VERY CLOSE in price to what I just got.
CBM only gave A1000 owners till the end of April, and Educational people only
had till the end of March for non-package perchaces. No word on what the
A3000 was going to be like was let out, so how could somone who needed the
Ed. deal, but would rather have the HUGE advances of the 3000 if it was
fiscally feesable know what to do and wether or not to wait. And then CBM
makes you sign your life away, saying you can not sell the 2500/30
for _1 year_!!!
CBM has got to tell it's family, us users and supporters, what they are going
to do soon, or their is going to be a lot of people saying "**** it, I am tired
of fighting for a company that keep scr=wing me over!"
I have no problem with a brand new machine, no problem with their secrets,
however if they introduced these big deals to their original supporters (The
people who saved CBM) and to Educators just to clear stock, I for one am
gone!
Ps. Unless the A3000 is a warranty upgrade! :-)
watters@cis.ohio-state.eduroot@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Systems Staff) (04/13/90)
In article <79198@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> <watters@cis.ohio-state.edu> writes: >From tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ucsd!sdcsvax!beowulf!velasco Fri Apr 13 01:26:45 EDT 1990 >What about all the new A2500/30 owners? Are you telling me that MY _3_ day >old 2500/30 $3000++ machine is going to be obsolete in a matter of days or >weeks to something that is VERY CLOSE in price to what I just got. Welcome the the Computer Industry ;-) Seriously is it the case that Commodore will only produce software/hardware that works with the A3000? Will EA start writing games only for the A3000? Will all the developers abandon their A2000 products and jump at once to the A3000? No. Of course not. And your machine isn't obsolete, either. At Stony Brook we have about $1M worth of Sun-3's that are "obsolete" but people still seem to be able to graduate students in spite of this. Unless and until you identify an application that you need that runs only on an A3000, you don't have a problem. >CBM has got to tell it's family, us users and supporters, what they are going >to do soon, or their is going to be a lot of people saying "**** it, I am tired >of fighting for a company that keep scr=wing me over!" Adam Osborne (sp?) might have something to say about announcing a machine before you're ready to ship. >I have no problem with a brand new machine, no problem with their secrets, >however if they introduced these big deals to their original supporters (The >people who saved CBM) and to Educators just to clear stock, I for one am >gone! Stay. The advent of the A3000, 1.4, etc promises to be some of the *most* exciting times for the Amiga. >watters@cis.ohio-state.edu Doesn't Ohio State have a rather large installation of Sun-3's too? How is it I've not seen a posting from you lamenting how you stpent all those dollars on Sun-3's and now they're obsolete ;-) ;-) Rick Spanbauer State U of NY/Stony Brook
martens@navajo.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jeff Martens) (04/13/90)
In article <79198@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> <watters@cis.ohio-state.edu> writes: [ ... ] >I am having a very SERIOUS time follwing CBM's reasoning lately. I realize >the above is not gospel, but lately I have been hearing very similar specs and >stories from some VERY inside friends. >My problem is this; Why did CBM spend a lot of time and money getting 1000 >owners to turn in their machine for a 2000 series, and even more time and money >getting us Educators/Students/Schools to go out and buy lots of 2000's, both >before quickly aproaching deadlines, and then turn around and make the 2000 >line obsolete. Just because they've come out with a better model doesn't mean the old one's obsolete. Heck, I seem to be getting by on my 4 year old A1000, and expect to for awhile. A fact of life seems to be that computer companies continue to make sales even after they've begun working on the next model. If Commodore hadn't continued to sell A500s and A2000s, there'd be no money to produce and market the A3000. As it is Commodore is attempting to maintain/build market share, and that'll help us all in the long run, regardless of what the next machine looks like. >Don't get me wrong, I want the 3000 to be a complete overhaul as much as >anyone, but why on Earth didn't they wait and do the 1000 and Education deals >AFTER the 3000 was released. Because they don't want sales to stagnate. I expect that there'll be an educational discount on the 3000, but it doesn't make much sense to announce it before the 3000 is announced. >What about all the new A2500/30 owners? Are you telling me that MY _3_ day >old 2500/30 $3000++ machine is going to be obsolete in a matter of days or >weeks to something that is VERY CLOSE in price to what I just got. Well, I'm certainly not telling you that. You've got a good machine. If you have to upgrade sometime, then you have to upgrade; but it doesn't make much sense to worry that your 2500 is nearly obsolete. Does it do what you need it to do? I suspect it does, but if not, why did you buy it in the first place? >CBM only gave A1000 owners till the end of April, and Educational people only >had till the end of March for non-package perchaces. No word on what the >A3000 was going to be like was let out, so how could somone who needed the >Ed. deal, but would rather have the HUGE advances of the 3000 if it was >fiscally feesable know what to do and wether or not to wait. And then CBM >makes you sign your life away, saying you can not sell the 2500/30 >for _1 year_!!! Despite allegations to the contrary, the marketing people at CBM may not be stupid. There are many, many cases of companies floundering because they've announced a product prematurely, and potential customers waited for the new product rather than buying the current one. Then the new product was late, or never produced due to lack of funds. Even IBM has alienated customers by announcing products prematurely and then not being able to deliver on time. >CBM has got to tell it's family, us users and supporters, what they are going >to do soon, or their is going to be a lot of people saying "**** it, I am tired >of fighting for a company that keep scr=wing me over!" I don't understand what CBM has to tell us? And I don't know of anyone who's really been screwed over by CBM (of course, probably someone has been...). At one point, when production of the A1020 was dropped, I felt I'd been screwed, but after months of scouring the countryside for a dealer that had one, and months of having a 1020 on backorder from CMO, I finally found a used one in mint condition. Guess I wasn't screwed. >I have no problem with a brand new machine, no problem with their secrets, >however if they introduced these big deals to their original supporters (The >people who saved CBM) and to Educators just to clear stock, I for one am >gone! I think that they didn't. First of all, the A1000 upgrade was to keep old customers happy by moving them to a machine that Commodore (presumably) intends to continue to support. This isn't a move to clear stock -- it's a move to keep faithful customers happy. The educational discount is targeted more towards new customers, and increasing market share. Certainly clearing out stock could be a concern, but if the 3000 costs almost the same thing as a 2500, then expect price drops on the older stuff when the 3000 comes out. And you can hardly accuse Commodore of being the only PC manufacturer to ever drop prices, or to ever come out with a new model. So I don't see why you're upset. [ ... ] -=- -- Jeff (martens@cis.ohio-state.edu) "Does anyone find it odd that Jack Kennedy and McHale of 'McHale's Navy' were The same rank in the same branch of the service?" -- Dennis Miller
chad@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (darknight) (04/14/90)
In article <79198@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> <watters@cis.ohio-state.edu> writes: >From tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ucsd!sdcsvax!beowulf!velasco Fri Apr 13 01:26:45 EDT 1990 > >/ From a good source... >/ > ( Lots of badly need enhancements deleted....) > >/Will cost less than a comparably equipped A2500 because of the use of the > >I am having a very SERIOUS time follwing CBM's reasoning lately. I realize >the above is not gospel, but lately I have been hearing very similar specs and >stories from some VERY inside friends. First of all, non-disclosure means that what you think you know about the 3000 may not be anything like reality. Be warned. Secondly, I'll make a bad assumption, by assuming the original posting was true. In this case, if the 3000 is cheaper than a COMPARABLY equipped 2000 (as stated), then think how much a COMPARABLY equipped 2000 would cost.... $5000, $6000??? perhaps more? Commodore would be wise to keep the production cost of the 3000 as low as they could, but it doesn't mean that the 3000 will be affordable to most people, and it CERTAINLY does not mean that the 2000 is obsolete. All of this just further demonstrates why non-disclosure exists, and why I (now) think it is beneficial... Until it comes out, you musn't make any assumptions or judgements about the machine. Until it comes out, it doesn't exist (as far as the consumer is concerned). Besides, you didn't happen to hear all these rumors from VERY inside people on April 1st, did you? (as it happens, I've heard my own set of very, very (and I mean VEEEERRRRRY) inside rumors... But I'm not gonna post 'em, because they are just rumors. And if I had any facts, I still wouldn't post 'em because it would probably be illegal due to non-disclosure agreements. See how it works?) -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ INTERNET: chad@slugmail.ucsc.edu Chad 'The_Walrus' Netzer->AmigaManiac++ "Never piss off a guy who understands technology." ------====== "Life is a Strange Attractor." ======-------
neil@celia.UUCP (Neil Richmond) (04/14/90)
In article <79198@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> <watters@cis.ohio-state.edu> writes: >From tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ucsd!sdcsvax!beowulf!velasco Fri Apr 13 01:26:45 EDT 1990 (deleted stuff) >/ - 4 new Zorro III expansion slots; Is this true at all? That the A3000 still will use a Zorro bus? This is the same bus now used in the A2xxx series, right? If so, what is the big deal about the A3000? How can cramming a 32 bit wide bus into a Zorro bus be a real enhancement? I have a A2000, which I am really happy with. I can't see trading it in for this kind of an upgade unless, it is a warranty upgrade :-) Seriously, I really hope I am wrong about this. neil -- " Give a skeptic an inch and he'll measure it. " Neil F. Richmond (celia!neil@tis.llnl.gov, ....!ames!lll-tis!celia!neil)