scotth@corp.sgi.com (Scott Henry) (04/30/90)
> Someone mentioned here that Commodore is not going to offer an OS2.0 >upgrade for the Amiga 500 because OS 2.0 requires at least 1M and a >hard disk. Bill> That someone was me, and I received pointed mail from Ken Farinsky at CATS, Bill> telling me that I'd received bad information. I was depending on what >one< Bill> rep at the Palladium said, and he apparently wasn't as well-informed as I Bill> thought. The new OS will not >require< a hard drive, and it will run on a Bill> machine with less than a meg of chip ram. Next time, I'll look for Bill> corroboration before I open my mouth...<grin> OK, if AmigaDOS 2.0 does NOT require more than 1MB of chip ram (ie: it will work with 512KB), is there a technical reason why v2.0 can't run on an A1000? The only one I can think of is that the minimum amount of the kernel that must be in kickstart exceeds the 256KB KS memory, since not enough of the libraries could be put on disk. Since I have 2MB of fast ram and a hard disk, is there anyway I can load v2.0? -- Scott Henry <scotth@sgi.com> | Traveller on Dragon Wings Information Services, | Silicon Graphics, Inc | Help! My disclaimer is missing!
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (05/02/90)
cmcmanis@stpeter.Eng.Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) writes: >Reality check : >The Amiga 500 and the Amiga 2000 are the "same" machine. One of the >problems for Commodore has always been trying to convince people they >really should pay $1000 more for the same machine in a bulky box with >slots and a detached keyboard. Many people balked at that since they >felt they were being ripped off. Fine, that's ancient history. Now >2.0 comes out and Commodore possibly sees it as an opportunity to >make people feel less ripped off. Instead of "and you get a bulky >box and some slots!" it now reads "all that _and_ 2.0." Boy! Chuck, this sure is a negative sounding posting for you. There is one major difference between the 500 and the 2000 that will make it more difficult to upgrade the 500 to 2.0: The 2000's have 1 meg standard on the motherboard and the 500 only has 512K. That means that the 2000 is more prepared to use 2.0, in that just having the new Agnus and Denise and ROMs and you have 2.0 on a 2000. On the 500 you have to do some work to get 1 meg of chip RAM. The expansion memory (if I remember right) is configured as FAST RAM even if you have the 1 meg Agnus. So there will be have to be additional work to be done in order to upgrade the 500 to 2.0 >The point is that at least now you can see what your "extra" money is >buying. Commodore is not likely to say "You can't run 2.0 on your Amiga >500." But they are certainly likely to say "We won't sell you an Amiga >500 with 2.0 as 'standard equipment'." Unless the 2.0 operating system works with only 512K CHIP RAM, (in which case, my original paragraph above is wrong, so ignore it :-), CBM will have to start shipping 500's with 1 meg in order to give 500 owners 2.0. Not too likely unless mem prices fall some more. I remember reading that there is some room on the motherboard for an additional 512K though. I hope CBM does start shipping 2.0 with all new machines (500's, included) otherwise we might not see too much new software taking advantage of 2.0. After all, programmers will want to make sure their software works with all Amiga's so as to maximize their sales. And if they can't count on a majority of machines out there having 2.0, they won't support it. >-- >--Chuck McManis Sun Microsystems >uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: <none> Internet: cmcmanis@Eng.Sun.COM >These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. >"I tell you this parrot is bleeding deceased!" -- John Sparks | D.I.S.K. 24hrs 2400bps. Accessable via Starlink (Louisville KY) sparks@corpane.UUCP | | PH: (502) 968-DISK I'm the person your mother warned you about.
david@twg.com (David Herron) (05/04/90)
In article <11178@cbmvax.commodore.com> ken@cbmcats.UUCP (Ken Farinsky) writes: >In article <90118.102409ERMENKIR@MTUS5.BITNET> ERMENKIR@MTUS5.BITNET writes: >>Good points concerning CBM's A2000 market vs A500. As someone stated before, .. >AmigaOS will work on an A500. But Ken.. There have been mumblings that 2.0 for A500`s will wait until october while 2.0 for A2000's will be out ~2 months earlier. I heard that snippit last saturday while I was at HT Electronics and might've read it in the A3000 marketing guide that was on the counter. I also know I heard it at the FAUG meeting the other night from Leo Schwab. (I know.. Leo's not an Official Source buuut) I see your point that there isn't much/any hardware difference between A2000 and A500 buuuut.. -- <- David Herron, an MMDF weenie, <david@twg.com> <- Formerly: David Herron -- NonResident E-Mail Hack <david@ms.uky.edu> <- <- (funny quote under construction)
mitchell@janus.Berkeley.EDU (Evan Mitchell) (05/04/90)
In article <1757@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: > >I hope CBM does start shipping 2.0 with all new machines (500's, included) >otherwise we might not see too much new software taking advantage of 2.0. >After all, programmers will want to make sure their software works with all >Amiga's so as to maximize their sales. And if they can't count on a majority >of machines out there having 2.0, they won't support it. > > That's interesting, because I know I won't be upgrading my A500 to 2.0. I have a few questions. Can someone (preferably someone from Commodore) explain the (relatively) high prices of: 1. The new Agnes and Denise chips (probably well over $200.00) 2. Amiga Vision ($149.00 list) Yes, I know that nothing comes for free, but these "upgrades" will be bundled with new versions of the same machine I already have. Why is it so expensive to upgrade my machine? Please feel free to use any economic or business terms to explain this to me (as I have a degree in Economics) as well as any technical terms. BTW, I'm not complaining, and I think I have an intuitive explanation for this phenonmenon, but I want an official answer. How can Amigavision become Commodore's answer to Hypercard if existing owners think twice about buying it? For what it's worth, I'll probably buy an A3000 as soon as I get a real job! Anybody looking for someone with a BA Economics from Berkeley? :-). >John Sparks | D.I.S.K. 24hrs 2400bps. Accessable via Starlink (Louisville KY) >sparks@corpane.UUCP | | PH: (502) 968-DISK -Evan Jay Mitchell mitchell@janus.berkeley.edu
consp11@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Brett Kessler) (05/04/90)
In article <1757@corpane.UUCP>, sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: |>Unless the 2.0 operating system works with only 512K CHIP RAM, (in which case, |>my original paragraph above is wrong, so ignore it :-), CBM will have to |>start shipping 500's with 1 meg in order to give 500 owners 2.0. Not too |>likely unless mem prices fall some more. I remember reading that there is |>some room on the motherboard for an additional 512K though. I stopped in by my local dealer about a wek before the A3000 was officially released, and even way back then he was able to inform me that the A500 will start shipping in a new box with 1 Mb chip sometime RSN. (He gave me a ballpark figure, but I'll be darned if I can remember it!) +------///-+------------------| BRETT KESSLER |------------------+-\\\------+ | /// | consp11@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu | \\\ | | \\\/// | consp11@bingvaxa.BITNET | \\\/// | | \XX/ | (PeopleLink) B.KESSLER | \XX/ | +----------+-----------------------------------------------------+----------+
UH2@psuvm.psu.edu (Lee Sailer) (05/04/90)
In article <SCOTTH.90Apr30133448@harlie.corp.sgi.com>, scotth@corp.sgi.com (Scott Henry) says: > >OK, if AmigaDOS 2.0 does NOT require more than 1MB of chip ram (ie: it >will work with 512KB), is there a technical reason why v2.0 can't run on >an A1000? The only one I can think of is that the minimum amount of the >kernel that must be in kickstart exceeds the 256KB KS memory, since not >enough of the libraries could be put on disk. Since I have 2MB of fast ram >and a hard disk, is there anyway I can load v2.0? My GUESS, based on four years of reading this newsgroup, is that a sizable subset of 2.0 will appear for the A1000 eventually, even if it is done on the sly by clever A1000 owners and not officially supported. Even if Commodore decides to do it officially, it will be the last thing they do, so probably wouldn't happen til late 90. The biggest obstacle to this happening, I think, is that the people with the necessary expertise have by now mostly sold off their A1000's. There are still A1000 users with the necessary skills, I am sure, but so few of them that one with necessary spare time, too, is sadly unlikely. lee
terry@comcon.UUCP (Terry LaGrone) (05/04/90)
> >upgrade for the Amiga 500 because OS 2.0 requires at least 1M and a > >hard disk. Well, I have an Amiga 500 with 3M and a hard disk, so > >will I be able to use the Amiga 2000 upgrade package? I have an Amiga 500 with 3meg but it is the A590 disk drive. Under the current scheme ( read :> until OS 2.0 is in a ROM chip ), you can't load the OS 2.0 on that machine. HOWEVER; if you have expanded ram that is FIRST in the AutoConfig tm sequence you can use the A2000 enhancer scheme. PS Amiga 2000 owners with all of their expansion memory on the A2091 controller card are in the same fix as the A500 owner. Terry LaGrone
d88-mbe@sm.luth.se (Michael Bergman) (05/04/90)
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >Boy! Chuck, this sure is a negative sounding posting for you. There is one >major difference between the 500 and the 2000 that will make it more difficult >to upgrade the 500 to 2.0: >Unless the 2.0 operating system works with only 512K CHIP RAM, (in which case, >my original paragraph above is wrong, so ignore it :-), CBM will have to >start shipping 500's with 1 meg in order to give 500 owners 2.0. Not too >likely unless mem prices fall some more. I remember reading that there is >some room on the motherboard for an additional 512K though. Yes, John, I believe you're wrong. If my memory isn't completely worthless, I saw an article just a couple of days ago where someone from C= said that 2.0 will run on an A500 and does *not* need harddisk, ECS, 2 M fast ram or 1 M chip. I.e. it will run with 512 K chip mem. On the other hand it isn't very difficult to install the additional 512K if the New Agnus is in place. Mike -- Michael Bergman Internet: d88-mbe@sm.luth.se // Dept. of Comp. Eng. BITNET: d88-mbe%sm.luth.se@kth.se \X/ U of Lulea, SWEDEN ARPA: d88-mbe%sm.luth.se@ucbvax.berkeley.edu UUCP: {uunet,mcvax}!sunic.se!sm.luth.se!d88-mbe
peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna) (05/04/90)
In article <384@comcon.UUCP> terry@comcon.UUCP (Terry LaGrone) writes: >> >upgrade for the Amiga 500 because OS 2.0 requires at least 1M and a >> >hard disk. Well, I have an Amiga 500 with 3M and a hard disk, so >> >will I be able to use the Amiga 2000 upgrade package? > >I have an Amiga 500 with 3meg but it is the A590 disk drive. Under the >current scheme ( read :> until OS 2.0 is in a ROM chip ), you can't load >the OS 2.0 on that machine. HOWEVER; if you have expanded ram that is >FIRST in the AutoConfig tm sequence you can use the A2000 enhancer scheme. > >PS Amiga 2000 owners with all of their expansion memory on the A2091 >controller card are in the same fix as the A500 owner. The "current scheme" you refer to is one manner of distributing beta-releases to beta-testers under non-disclosure. It bears no resemblance to the manner in which 2.0 will become available for legitimate use by regular Amiga owners (i.e. people other than developers that are part of the 2.0 test program). These beta releases are not for general consumption, for several good reasons, including: * The life of a beta-tester is not always an easy one (ever beta test a file-system? Somebody has to find bugs in VERY CRITICAL sections...) * Non-disclosure prohibits beta-testers from passing around or demonstrating the beta software. * False rumors get started based on behaviour or compatibility of a beta-release, such as this business about "enhancer schemes". * Numerous other reasons... >Terry LaGrone Peter -- Peter Cherna, Software Engineer, Commodore-Amiga, Inc. {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!peter peter@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com My opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of my employer. "If you insist on spending $10000 on a 68030 technology, may we humbly suggest you buy three Amiga 3000's."