BARRETT@forest.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (05/30/90)
Is there some unwritten rule that says that CLI's and GUI's must be
totally seperate? If there is, then that rule should be broken. I am
a Shell user. On my system, I don't even load the WorkBench; my system
just boots directly to a Shell. But this is out of necessity, as I
don't have enough memory to have the WorkBench loaded all the time.
I also like the WorkBench, though, and use it frequently. I have
a hotkey which loads the WorkBench to a custom screen. I can then
have the WorkBench whenever I need it. I then have seperate Shell and
WorkBench screens, which I can shuffle between with Amiga-M. This
is a MUCH more flexable system than shuffling Shell windows with the
mouse to use the WorkBench. (BTW, I will be very unhappy if, for
some reason, OS2.0 will not let me have seperate Shell and WorkBench
screens as I have with OS1.3)
I like both the Shell and WorkBench, but am somewhat unhappy with
both. I wish there could be a merger of the Shell and WorkBench. OS2.0
provides some CLI characteristics to the WorkBench, but it does not go
far enough. I also wish that GUI characteristics could be added to the
Shell. Shell menus would provide this. People who do not like GUI's
could simply ignore the mouse, and go on with their business unhindered.
But people like me could have the menus to make using the Shell much
easier.
In particular, I would like to see two things added to the Shell.
OS2.0 provides text clipping betweens Shells and programs, but this is
not really enough. I would also like to see an 'edit' menu added to
the Shell. This menu could provide items such as select-all, copy,
cut, and paste to make text clipping more flexable. I would also
like to see a facility for easily adding custom menus to the Shell.
Believe me, if I had the programming experience I would do this
myself. But I do not, and I can only ask someone else (or Commodore)
to do it. If Commodore will not do it, then I hope that someone
else would be willing to do it. Any takers?
-MB-
BTW, the DOS Shells on the SUN SparcStation have menus. Why can't
the Shells on the Amiga have this feature?
bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) (05/31/90)
In article <20550@snow-white.udel.EDU> BARRETT@forest.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > > Is there some unwritten rule that says that CLI's and GUI's must be >totally seperate? > [...] > I like both the Shell and WorkBench, but am somewhat unhappy with >both. I wish there could be a merger of the Shell and WorkBench. OS2.0 Marc, part of the reason I like the Amy is that it provides a fully configurable vanilla console that allows high-level access to the DOS. I would not want C= to beef up the CLI on their own and add what *they* feel I need to the console. It's all in the philosophy, IMHO-- what you would like is a more mouse-oriented command-line interface. You can find this for the Mac, to be sure-- but the Amy is no Mac (thank God). The philosophies (forgive the term) *are* different and *should* be. I want to have full control of my interface; as it is, I have SKsh and ConsoleBuffer on my CLI. If C= made the CLI any more complex, I would doubt I could configure it the way I wanted to. >OS2.0 provides text clipping betweens Shells and programs, but this is >not really enough. I would also like to see an 'edit' menu added to >the Shell. This menu could provide items such as select-all, copy, >cut, and paste to make text clipping more flexable. In fact, I've had the ability to cut and paste for a while now with Snap. It's all in the freely-distributable/shareware software, Marc. You won't find the support anywhere else as you would for the Amy. > -MB- > >BTW, the DOS Shells on the SUN SparcStation have menus. Why can't >the Shells on the Amiga have this feature? Because the Amiga is not a Sun. Neither is it a Mac or an IBM. Sorry to give ya the painfully obvious, Marc, but you keep forgetting this one simple fact. One world, one computer is a pretty shitty attitude, IMHO. Dave Hopper | /// Yesterday, CS. | "God does not play | /// Today, Anthro/History. | dice!" -Einstein bard@jessica. | \\\/// | I wouldn't think Dice'd Stanford.EDU | \XX/ Tomorrow... bleeding ulcers. | be popular up there.
jimmy@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Jimmy Chan) (05/31/90)
In article <20550@snow-white.udel.EDU> BARRETT@forest.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > Is there some unwritten rule that says that CLI's and GUI's must be >totally seperate? If there is, then that rule should be broken. I am >a Shell user. On my system, I don't even load the WorkBench; my system >just boots directly to a Shell. But this is out of necessity, as I >don't have enough memory to have the WorkBench loaded all the time. > I have WB loaded and also running 3 shells and 1 cli that doesn't want to shut down because I run Djclock right before cli > nil. I am satisfied with this my setup though I have 3 megs in my system. >mouse to use the WorkBench. (BTW, I will be very unhappy if, for >some reason, OS2.0 will not let me have seperate Shell and WorkBench >screens as I have with OS1.3) > Haven't had a chance to use, feel or even see AmigaDos 2.0. But, from previous postings I assumed you were knowledeable about it...8-)... > In particular, I would like to see two things added to the Shell. >OS2.0 provides text clipping betweens Shells and programs, but this is >not really enough. I would also like to see an 'edit' menu added to >the Shell. This menu could provide items such as select-all, copy, >cut, and paste to make text clipping more flexable. I would also >like to see a facility for easily adding custom menus to the Shell. > Actually I have to agree with you there it would make it nicer but is it necessary? I've always found it reasonable to leave the Shell/Cli separate from GUIs in case of confusion. What you actually want is a FULL GUI interface instead of two interfaces. > Believe me, if I had the programming experience I would do this >myself. But I do not, and I can only ask someone else (or Commodore) >to do it. If Commodore will not do it, then I hope that someone >else would be willing to do it. Any takers? > Don't see why CBM has to do it since they are pretty busy right now. I think if you pay someone enough money they will take on the job...8-)... Don't think I have enough programming experience to do it though... > -MB- > >BTW, the DOS Shells on the SUN SparcStation have menus. Why can't >the Shells on the Amiga have this feature? > Just because they have it doesn't mean we have to tag along now do we? Sorry Marc, don't mean to get down on you since enough people do it..8-)... but, there is a fine line between whining for something and asking politely for a solution to something. Don't expect all that much to happen all at one time as you seem to want it to as all things takes time, money, and manpower. Us here that's stuck in Hawaii tend to get things late but hey, we don't go crying that we don't get this or that we just wait patiently and usually it comes around....8-)....just like AmigaDos 2.0...been waiting for that ever since WB1.3 wasn't what I liked... 8-)...8-)...8-).... -- **************************************************************************** // || Hardware : A2000, 3 megs, 2 internal 3 1/2" drives \\ // || Future Purchases : SCSI Controller, 40-60 meg harddrives, A3000 \X/ || jimmy@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu or jimmy@uhccux.bitnet
soh@shiva.trl.oz (kam hung soh) (06/07/90)
BARRETT@forest.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: >BTW, the DOS Shells on the SUN SparcStation have menus. Why can't >the Shells on the Amiga have this feature? SunView shells have menus, and I believe this may be a feature of all editing windows (Canvases? Don't know much about SunView terminology). In the X Windowing System, all applications which use the Text widget seem to share a common clipboard. (On the Macintosh, there is a shared buffer for all text, but I digress.) My standard CLI in X is xterm, and it only provides menus for modifying internal and display attributes since it was designed that way. Unfortunately, shells in the Amiga (pre KS 2.0) don't seem to have been integrated well with Intuition; shell writers appear to believe that if a user wants a shell, he must be doing text based I/O, hence a lot of effort is put into the keyboard interface. Don't take my word for gospel - I've only programmed small applications for the Amiga so far. ----------------------------------- Soh, Kam Hung Telecom Research Laboratories, P.O. Box 249, Clayton, Victoria 3168, Australia email: h.soh@trl.oz.au tel: +61 03 541 6403