91_bickingd@gar.union.edu (Bicking, David) (06/01/90)
In my last letter, I addressed the statements of T.C. (a recently converted ST user). Well, knowing that many people would ignore that, I have reserved my real questions for this. DAVE HAYNIE and any other C= GURUS PLEASE respond. I agree that the hardcopy output of the Amiga still leaves much to be desired. I can compare a paper printed out (graphically) on the Amiga to one done on the MAC and see the MAC version is much better (much more professional and clean). The fonts look very good. Further, the printout for the MAC is much FASTER! It takes forever to print a page on my LQ-800 (24 pin) printer in maximum resolution, and it comes out so-so :( I believe the answer lies in the machines. How does the MAC drive its printers? How are their fonts different from the Amiga fonts? What can be done to improve the Amiga's output? Are these things in 2.0? What about T.C.'s questions about "device independant" output? Are you going to implement that? It sounds a lot like vector graphics, I guess. It seems to be a good idea as an OPTION for users. I want better output. I truely believe this is the ONE area that MAC is better than Amiga, and this ONE area is one of the factors that is holding sales back, especially in EDUCATION. What do you think most students will do with their Amiga? Write PAPERS. T.C. is right that a video presentation is not practical in, say, an economics course where an 8 page paer is due. As it is, I'm stuck with the built-in font on my Epson if I want good quality output. Please someone explain these things to me. I want to understand WHY the MAC is better in these areas. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=- "I don't want to start any Blasphemous Rumors, but I think that God's got a sick sense of humor and when I die I expect to find him laughing" Dave Bicking Single Tasking????? Just say NO!!!! Union College Box 152 91_bickingd@union.bitnet // Schenectady, NY 12308 91_bickingd@gar.union.edu \X/ Amiga -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
davids@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Dave Schreiber) (06/02/90)
In article <20724@snow-white.udel.EDU> 91_bickingd@gar.union.edu (Bicking, David) writes: [...] >DAVE HAYNIE and any other C= GURUS PLEASE respond. Well, I'm not a C= guru, but I am a Dave :-) > I agree that the hardcopy output of the Amiga still leaves much to be >desired. I can compare a paper printed out (graphically) on the Amiga to one >done on the MAC and see the MAC version is much better (much more professional >and clean). The fonts look very good. Further, the printout for the MAC is >much FASTER! It takes forever to print a page on my LQ-800 (24 pin) printer in >maximum resolution, and it comes out so-so :( > What printer are you using with the Mac? That can make a whole lot of difference. Also, what software are you using on the Amiga and the Mac? I'm using Pagestream with my Deskjet+, and the results are great (good enough so that I don't feel the need to have the stuff printed out on my University's LaserWriter; I can barely tell the difference between the DJ+ and the laser). Also, just to be sure, I assume you're using the 1.3 drivers? [stuff deleted ...] >What do you think most students will do with their Amiga? Write PAPERS. T.C. >is right that a video presentation is not practical in, say, an economics >course where an 8 page paer is due. As it is, I'm stuck with the built-in font >on my Epson if I want good quality output. I'm a student, who writes papers. Let me say again that my Amiga/PageStream/Deskjet+ combo. gives me output that _rivals_ PostScript laser output. I'm satisfied. >Dave Bicking Single Tasking????? Just say NO!!!! -- Dave Schreiber The blue leprechaun at davids@slugmail.ucsc.edu (prefered but flakey) or (not both) davids@ucscb.ucsc.edu "Coffee, Darling?"
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (06/02/90)
In article <20724@snow-white.udel.EDU> 91_bickingd@gar.union.edu (Bicking, David) writes: >DAVE HAYNIE and any other C= GURUS PLEASE respond. On printers, you really want Dave Berezowski. But he's probably as busy as the other software folks this week, so I'll take a stab at the problem. > I agree that the hardcopy output of the Amiga still leaves much to be >desired. I can compare a paper printed out (graphically) on the Amiga to one >done on the MAC and see the MAC version is much better (much more professional >and clean). The fonts look very good. Further, the printout for the MAC is >much FASTER! It takes forever to print a page on my LQ-800 (24 pin) printer in >maximum resolution, and it comes out so-so :( First of all, make sure you're using 1.3; there's no use for 1.2 print drivers. Secondly, in the general case, the Mac has much less work to do. Most Mac users have an Apple printer attached. The Mac basic shows you 70DPI on screen, the basic ImageWriter prints out 140DPI. No magic necessary. Laser printing is usually done via QuickDraw or PostScript, no bitmap dumps. The Amiga, on the other hand, attempts to handle any possible printer, from el-cheapo 9 pins dots matrix to laser printers. The Amiga's internal image is rarely, if ever, an exact multiple of the arbitary printer's full page width. So it has to do non-integer scaling, possibly with dithering added. That takes more time than the "multiply by two" you get in the case of the Mac. You can usually change the scaling in Preferences on the Amiga to give you integer scaling, which will always be faster. The best output on either machine will be using outline fonts instead of bitmapped fonts. Programs such as Professional Page and PageStream on the Amiga support Compugraphic outline fonts, and will deliver a much better image than anything that can be done with bitmapped fonts on Amiga or Mac. The main reason PostScript looks so good (which is why I use it) is due to its internal outline fonts. >Dave Bicking Single Tasking????? Just say NO!!!! -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "I have been given the freedom to do as I see fit" -REM
UH2@psuvm.psu.edu (Lee Sailer) (06/03/90)
In article <12130@cbmvax.commodore.com>, daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) says: > >In article <20724@snow-white.udel.EDU> 91_bickingd@gar.union.edu (Bicking, >> I agree that the hardcopy output of the Amiga still leaves much to be >>desired. I can compare a paper printed out (graphically) on the Amiga to one >Secondly, in the general case, the Mac has much less work to do. Most Mac >users have an Apple printer attached. The Mac basic shows you 70DPI on In my opinion, Haynie is bein diplomatic here. One of the main causes of poor output from the Amiga is that many Amigas are connected to cheap printers.
keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) (06/04/90)
In article <90153.131613UH2@psuvm.psu.edu> UH2@psuvm.psu.edu (Lee Sailer) writes:
<In article <12130@cbmvax.commodore.com>, daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave
<Haynie) says:
<>
<>Secondly, in the general case, the Mac has much less work to do. Most Mac
<>users have an Apple printer attached. The Mac basic shows you 70DPI on
<
<In my opinion, Haynie is being diplomatic here. One of the main causes
<of poor output from the Amiga is that many Amigas are connected to
<cheap printers.
I've got a Tektronix 4696 three color+black printer available to connect to
my 2000HD. Are there any drivers available for this combination? Where?
(How? What? Why? How Much? Why is there Air?)
kEITHeguineau@wjg.enet.dec.com (06/05/90)
in article <7608@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM>, keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) writes: > I've got a Tektronix 4696 three color+black printer available to connect to > my 2000HD. Are there any drivers available for this combination? Where? > (How? What? Why? How Much? Why is there Air?) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (Speaking from the Anthropic principle) Because if there weren't [air], there would be no beings like us around to ask why there is. sorry, couldn't resist. --- W. John Guineau guineau@wjg.enet.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation Marlboro MA. 01752
johnf@stew.ssl.berkeley.edu (John Flanagan) (06/05/90)
In article <12175@shlump.nac.dec.com> guineau@wjg.enet.dec.com writes: >in article <7608@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM>, keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM >(Keith Ericson) writes: > >> I've got a Tektronix 4696 three color+black printer available to connect to >> my 2000HD. Are there any drivers available for this combination? Where? >> (How? What? Why? How Much? Why is there Air?) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >(Speaking from the Anthropic principle) Because if there weren't [air], there >would be no beings like us around to ask why there is. Wrong. To fill up basketballs, of course! (Does nobody listen to classic Bill Cosby records anymore? :-) John Flanagan Center for EUV Astrophysics johnf@ssl.berkeley.edu University of California (...!ucbvax!soc1.ssl!johnf) Berkeley, CA 94720 Manners Maketh Man. (415) 643-6308
dailey@cpsin2.uucp (Chris Dailey) (06/06/90)
In article <3987@darkstar.ucsc.edu> davids@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Dave Schreiber) writes: >I'm a student, who writes papers. Let me say again that my >Amiga/PageStream/Deskjet+ combo. gives me output that _rivals_ PostScript >laser output. I'm satisfied. But how about those of us that have a cheap (er, inexpensive) 24 pin printer? I don't want to go out and blow my bucks on a DTP program when all I want is a simple inexpensive word processor that does fonts and imports graphics. Macs come with MacWrite, no? Why isn't there a simple WP of comparable quality that comes with the Amiga? I could almost guarantee this would increase sales of Amigas greatly. With the price of Mac Plus's coming under $1000.00... This way, people could buy an Amiga and right away do something productive without having to buy another item. Isn't that what many people are looking for? I know, I'm a little off the subject. Sorry about that. >Dave Schreiber The blue leprechaun -- /~\ Chris Dailey (CPS Undergrad, SOC Lab Coord, AMIG user group Secretary) C oo dailey@cpsin1.cps.msu.edu (subliminal message-make WP5.1 for the Amiga) _( ^) "I am thankful for one leg. To limp is no disgrace -- / ~\ I may not be number one, but I can still run the race." -from B.C.
jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (06/07/90)
To Chris Dailey, who asked why Amiga's are bundled w/ a decent word
processor like MacWrite is on the Mac...
Apple used to bundle MacWrite for the Mac but it really stifled WP
development for the system. Who'd want to shell out bucks for another WP
when MacWrite was decent enough? I believe they stopped bundling software,
and later, spun off their software division as Claris. I know Mac developers
were very happy about that.
For the same reasons, I figure, CBM will not bundle much more than
notepad and Amiga Basic. We'd probably never have gotten WordPerfect, ProWrite,
etc.... if they did.
Also, look at the flak CBM is taking for bundling AmigaVision w/ their
computers now.....
Later