fnf@fishpond.UUCP (Fred Fish) (06/06/90)
This note is to inform the net that the following disks are being recalled and should not be distributed until replacement disks are available: 173, 221, 230, 238, 305, 324 Each of these disks contains a tetris clone which Spectrum Holobyte believes to be infringement on their commercial product "Tetris". Below is a copy of the letter I received from Phillip Adams, president of Spectrum Holobyte: ====================================================================== Dear Fred: Thank you for your co-operation in taking the Tetris clone products out of you disks. I wanted to send a follow-up letter to review what took place and to state our position as a company. I saw the Tetris name being used on one of your public domain disks. I called the editor of Amazing Computing and they said they would have you give me a call, which you did. We talked about Tetris and you agreed that you would remove it immediately. You also volunteered to send me six other disks that were essentially the same. Our testing group looked at them and agreed that they were Tetris 2-D format with essentially the same game play. I subsequently let you know that information, also. Tetris has never been a public domain product, and has never been put on a bulletin board by the legal owners. While I understand that Tetris is a simple game, it is quite a unique concept. The seven falling blocks (the mind remembers 7 plus or minus 2) are a very essential part of the game. We have a contractual obligation to protect the rights of ELORG (the Soviet Licensor) as well as Alexey Pajitnov, to insure they are compensated for this property. We did file suit against another software company to block its 2-D version of a similar game and it was taken out of their product. To change the colors of the blocks or have the "Rubiks" cube made out of wood doesn't make it a different product either. I am aware that some of the complaints about Tetris are compatibility and copy protection. Version 1.1 of Tetris Amiga is not copy protected and people can send the earlier version disks and $3.00 (which includes shipping) to us and we will send the upgrade. Welltris, which will be shipping this week, contains only pass word protection in the manual. There is nothing on the disk to prevent backup or hard disk installation. Again, thank you for your support in the matter. You are a good person for the Amiga community and we wish you continued success. Sincerely, Phillip G. Adam President ====================================================================== I intend to deal with the recall of these disks slightly differently than the previous disks which were recalled. In this case, I will simply remove the contested material and reissue the disk with the same number but a slightly different name. The name of disk 324 for example will change from AmigaLibDisk324 to AmigaLibDisk324a to signify a revised edition of the disk. The revised disks should be available after this weekend. Please feel free to give this posting the widest possible distribution. -Fred -- # Fred Fish, 1835 E. Belmont Drive, Tempe, AZ 85284, USA # 1-602-491-0048 asuvax!mcdphx!fishpond!fnf
nsw@cbnewsm.att.com (Neil Weinstock) (06/07/90)
From the letter from Spectrum Holobyte to Fred Fish regarding Tetris: >The seven falling blocks (the mind remembers 7 plus or minus 2) are a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >very essential part of the game. Whoa there, what's this got to do with anything? The limitation of 7 plus or minus 2 is for short term memory, which is a moot point for anyone that plays Tetris for more than 2 minutes (i.e., you remember the pieces in long term memory, not short.) Do those unfortunate folks with short term memory capacity of 5 items make lousy Tetris players? Geez, we'd better convert to a 7 letter alphabet, eh? Or maybe 5, just to be safe. Sounds like fertile material for a Psych study... ;-) Sorry, but this seemed like flagrant BS to me, quite apart from the questionable issue of whether Spectrum Holobyte has the right to squash tetris clones... - Neil --==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==-- Neil Weinstock @ AT&T Bell Labs // What was sliced bread att!edsel!nsw or nsw@edsel.att.com \X/ the greatest thing since?
gt5784a@prism.gatech.EDU (Walter G. Reynolds (JJ)) (06/07/90)
Regarding the removal of Tetrix clones from the Fred Fish collection: do local BBS's also have to remove these clones? It would seem so... W.Reynolds. -- "I think, therefore I am." - Descartes | Only Amiga "I know you are, but what am I?" - Pee Wee Herman | // makes .sigs like "I think not, therefore I am not." - ? |\\ // this possible. "I thought I think I was. Am I?" - Me, on Fri Nights | \X/
terry@helios.ucsc.edu (Terry Ricketts) (06/07/90)
In article <1990Jun6.224027.13036@cbnewsm.att.com> nsw@cbnewsm.att.com (Neil Weinstock) writes: > (stuff deleted) >Sorry, but this seemed like flagrant BS to me, quite apart from the >questionable issue of whether Spectrum Holobyte has the right to squash tetris >clones... It is too late now to stuff this cat into the bag. The PD versions of Tetris have been out too long and spread too far. The most Spectrum Holobyte can do is preasure people like Fred & make public posturings. They would have been much better off to have left it alone & realized it was too late. There is no way they can get the programs off of all the BBS's it is posted on or out of all the personal libraries. The most that will happen is that people will get mad at them and boycot them. I will remember their name for a long time & have a bad impression of their tactics. That will affect my buying habits.
kosma%human-torch@stc.lockheed.com (Monty Kosma) (06/08/90)
I would like to prefix this by saying that I really like Spectrum Holobyte basically because of Falcon, and I won't hesitate to buy another of their products. but... Let me get this straight. The Russian inventor of Tetris invents the game. there's been some debate of this...though I don't really know who to believe He markets the game internationally. He licenses the game to Spectrum Holobyte, who is responsible for distributing and protecting HIS rights. Clones appear, ripping off the Tetris name. This hurts not only Spectrum Holobyte as AMerican distributor but the original, Russian author. some of the clones (like, Tetris and Tetrix) clearly were ripping off the Tetris name. But take, for example, the game "Obsess"--to me, its gameplay was sufficiently expanded and different from the original tetris, and clearly its name was quite different...it seems that Spectrum Holobyte's forcing this particular tetris "look-similar" (?) off the pd market was a bit on the bullying side. Spectrum Holobyte moves to protect its rights as distributor and the rights of the Russian author. And YOU TELL ME THAT THIS IS BAD???? Well, now I guess I should be mad and annoyed at people defending their rights....... no, but to some people, SH has gone a bit too far with some of their claims...
xrtnt@bethe.gsfc.nasa.gov (Nigel Tzeng) (06/08/90)
In article <21411@snow-white.udel.EDU>, kosma%human-torch@stc.lockheed.com (Monty Kosma) writes... ^I would like to prefix this by saying that I really like Spectrum Holobyte ^basically because of Falcon, and I won't hesitate to buy another of their ^products. ^ ^but... ^ ^ Let me get this straight. ^ ^ The Russian inventor of Tetris invents the game. ^ ^there's been some debate of this...though I don't really know who to believe ^ ^ He markets the game internationally. ^ ^ He licenses the game to Spectrum Holobyte, who is responsible for ^ distributing and protecting HIS rights. ^ ^ Clones appear, ripping off the Tetris name. This hurts not only ^ Spectrum Holobyte as AMerican distributor but the original, Russian author. ^ ^some of the clones (like, Tetris and Tetrix) clearly were ripping off the ^Tetris name. But take, for example, the game "Obsess"--to me, its gameplay ^was sufficiently expanded and different from the original tetris, and ^clearly its name was quite different...it seems that Spectrum Holobyte's ^forcing this particular tetris "look-similar" (?) off the pd market was ^a bit on the bullying side. ^ ^ Spectrum Holobyte moves to protect its rights as distributor and ^ the rights of the Russian author. ^ ^ And YOU TELL ME THAT THIS IS BAD???? ^ ^ Well, now I guess I should be mad and annoyed at people ^ defending their rights....... ^ ^no, but to some people, SH has gone a bit too far with some of their claims... Actually it seems that SH has been fairly polite about the whole thing. I do agree that some of the games like Obsess (or the other one with the real long name...) don't infringe as much on their game. But Tertris (the PD one) stated in its docs that it was attempting to emulate the arcade game as closely as possible and it wasn't going to pussyfoot around with changing the name. It seemed that this programmer caught someone's attention and the rest suffered from the subsequent fallout. Actually of the versions available it is the least favorite of mine since it wants a joystick and not a mouse. I own both falcon and op counterstrike but I'm not going to delete my copy of Tetrix just because SH says so. When they re-vamp Tetris to be friendlier I'll reconsider. NT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- // | Nigel Tzeng - STX Inc - NASA/GSFC COBE Project \X/ | xrtnt@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov | Amiga | Standard Disclaimer Applies: The opinions expressed are my own.
bluneski@pogo.WV.TEK.COM (Bob Luneski) (06/08/90)
In article <4158@darkstar.ucsc.edu> terry@helios.ucsc.edu (Terry Ricketts) writes: >In article <1990Jun6.224027.13036@cbnewsm.att.com> nsw@cbnewsm.att.com (Neil Weinstock) writes: >> (stuff deleted) >>Sorry, but this seemed like flagrant BS to me, quite apart from the >>questionable issue of whether Spectrum Holobyte has the right to squash tetris >>clones... > > It is too late now to stuff this cat into the bag. The PD versions of >Tetris have been out too long and spread too far. The most Spectrum Holobyte >can do is preasure people like Fred & make public posturings. They would have >been much better off to have left it alone & realized it was too late. There >is no way they can get the programs off of all the BBS's it is posted on or out >of all the personal libraries. The most that will happen is that people will >get mad at them and boycot them. I will remember their name for a long time & >have a bad impression of their tactics. That will affect my buying habits. The issue is not whether Spectrum Holobyte can eliminate the Tetris clones already out there, but whether they have any legal right to attempt to do so. What are rights are they claiming have been infringed upon? Certainly not Copyright rights, I doubt if any of the clone authors used ANY of their code or in any way are violating any provision of the Universal Copyright Code. They claim that the idea of 7 different shaped blocks falling on a 2-D playing field is crucial to the game and is protected. Well I have yet to see them produce a legal U.S. patent protecting their "idea". Geeze, Why doesn't Microsoft sue Spectrum Holobyte over Falcon because Falcon uses a plane and a plane is crucial to the idea of Flight Simulator! Their only possible case is a possible look and feel argument. There are legal software precedents for both sides of this case with most look and feel suits losing since the Lotus 1-2-3 victory. In any event, if they did have a legitimate(very doubtful) look and feel case, then they must sue each offending author individually, NOT throw uninforcable legal crap in the face of Fred. For myself, All that Spectrum Holobyte has accomplished is to completely alianate me and prevent me from purchasing any of their current or future products. I have also written them a letter expressing my feelings. ____________________________________________________________________________ Bob Luneski The opinions expressed herein are my own and in no way reflect the opinions of Tektronix, Inc.
phoenix@ms.uky.edu (R'ykandar Korra'ti) (06/08/90)
In article <4158@darkstar.ucsc.edu> terry@helios.ucsc.edu (Terry Ricketts) writes: > It is too late now to stuff this cat into the bag. The PD versions of >Tetris have been out too long and spread too far. The most Spectrum Holobyte >can do is preasure people like Fred & make public posturings. They would have >been much better off to have left it alone & realized it was too late. Actually, no; not from their point of view. Sure, this will do absolutely nothing against all the PD Tetris clones out there; but that isn't the point of their action. Under US copyright law, if you do not defend your copyright, you _lose_ your copyright. I believe this is still true under the Berne convention. Since they found out about the PD Tetris, they were obligated to take action. If they had not, then it would have been very easy for other _commercial_ publishers to whip together a Tetris clone and publish it for money. - R'ykandar. -- | R'ykandar Korra'ti | Editor, LOW ORBIT | PLink: Skywise | CIS 72406,370 | | Elfinkind, Unite! | phoenix@ms.uky.edu | phoenix%ms.uky.edu@ukcc.bitnet | | "Careful, mom, the toys are loose!" - from The Wizard of Speed and Time |
king@motcid.UUCP (Steven King) (06/08/90)
In article <1990Jun6.224027.13036@cbnewsm.att.com> nsw@cbnewsm.att.com (Neil Weinstock) writes: >Whoa there, what's this got to do with anything? The limitation of 7 plus >or minus 2 is for short term memory, which is a moot point for anyone that >plays Tetris for more than 2 minutes (i.e., you remember the pieces in long >term memory, not short.) Well, 7 plus or minus 2 is a well-known and widely accepted figure, though I agree that it's a moot point in this discussion. What I want to know is whether Spectrum Holobyte intends on enforcing their rights to ALL games that have 7 +/- 2 objects? :-) -- ---------------------------------------------------+--------------------------- After I describe my idea of the perfect software | Steve King (708) 991-8056 lifecycle, we'll take a few minutes and talk about | ...uunet!motcid!king reality. (Claire L. Lohr) | ...ddsw1!palnet!stevek
saify@cbnewsl.att.com (saify.lanewala) (06/08/90)
In article <113@fishpond.UUCP>, fnf@fishpond.UUCP (Fred Fish) writes: > This note is to inform the net that the following disks are being > recalled and should not be distributed until replacement disks are > available: > > 173, 221, 230, 238, 305, 324 > > Each of these disks contains a tetris clone which Spectrum Holobyte > believes to be infringement on their commercial product "Tetris". > [ section of letter from P. Adam deleted ] > > Again, thank you for your support in the matter. You are a good person > for the Amiga community and we wish you continued success. > > Sincerely, > > Phillip G. Adam > President > > -Fred > -- > # Fred Fish, 1835 E. Belmont Drive, Tempe, AZ 85284, USA > # 1-602-491-0048 asuvax!mcdphx!fishpond!fnf I want to take this opportunity to thank Fred Fish for being, if you will, the keeper of the Amiga conscience. If anything, actions of this type, i.e., voluntarily removing suspect software from public/shareware libraries legitimizes the shareware concept. I'll open myself up for flames and say that I feel that BBSes are much more vulnerable to the distribution of pirated software and/or software infringing on copyrights than other types software archive sources, such as the Fred Fish collection, xanth, uunet etc. Perhaps there is a way in which we can attempt to control the dissemination of such problem software if everyone who maintains an archive were to clear any software submissions through the ASP. I'm sure such an approach would be a pain for quite a few of us, but in the long run, it would help more than hinder the growth of the software industry. Speaking for myself, I would be spend less time worrying about my applications being pirated and more time developing a professional product if I had confidence that there were more people with integrity out there than without. Any thoughts? Please, if you must, flame me by e-mail -- don't waste bandwidth. Saify Lanewala .. att!attunix!stl
terry@helios.ucsc.edu (Terry Ricketts) (06/08/90)
In article <15425@s.ms.uky.edu> phoenix@ms.uky.edu (R'ykandar Korra'ti) writes: > Actually, no; not from their point of view. Sure, this will do absolutely >nothing against all the PD Tetris clones out there; but that isn't the point >of their action. > Under US copyright law, if you do not defend your copyright, you _lose_ >your copyright. I believe this is still true under the Berne convention. >Since they found out about the PD Tetris, they were obligated to take >action. If they had not, then it would have been very easy for other >_commercial_ publishers to whip together a Tetris clone and publish it >for money. I am not trying to argue the right or wrong of the clones copying the game. That is not the point anymore. Though I don't think you can copyright the concept of falling blocks, that doesn't matter eithor. The point is that SH simply waited too long to take action. There have been Tetris clones out for several years now, for almost every computer available. In fact Xanth has the source for tetris running under unix with X windows. They should have been after the original authors several years ago. To go after Fred now is silly. Fred may ask for a recall, but I would bet that less than 1% of those disks will be returned. So even that is a hopeless attempt to contain the spread of the clones. There comes a time when you must honestly look at the situation and admit that it is too late to change it. About all SH is going to do at this point is get people angry at them which is counterproductive (even if they are right). Have we forgotten what happened to SEA when they tried to defend their 'rights' against Phil Katz?
urjlew@uncecs.edu (Rostyk Lewyckyj) (06/11/90)
In article <3998@milton.acs.washington.edu>, gwangung@milton.acs.washington.edu (Roger Tang) writes: > Let me get this straight. > > The Russian inventor of Tetris invents the game. > > He markets the game internationally. > > He licenses the game to Spectrum Holobyte, who is responsible for > distributing and protecting HIS rights. > > Clones appear, ripping off the Tetris name. This hurts not only > Spectrum Holobyte as AMerican distributor but the original, Russian author. > > Spectrum Holobyte moves to protect its rights as distributor and > the rights of the Russian author. > > And YOU TELL ME THAT THIS IS BAD???? > > Well, now I guess I should be mad and annoyed at people > defending their rights....... Except that :-) You probably do need to get one item verified, (straight). Therre was a recent article posted here offering evidence that THE RUSSIAN AUTHOR really ripped off the game and the program from a Bulgarian Mathematician who showed his version of the game of to the poster some time before the Russian version.!! Shades of Lobatchevski and Tom Lehrer But barring this slight question of authorship, I do agree with you. ----------------------------------------------- Reply-To: Rostyslaw Jarema Lewyckyj urjlew@ecsvax.UUCP , urjlew@unc.bitnet or urjlew@uncvm1.acs.unc.edu (ARPA,SURA,NSF etc. internet) tel. (919)-962-6501
lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (06/11/90)
The Tetris clones on Fish Disks 173, 221, 230, 238, 305, and 324 have been removed from the Amiga Archive at UIUC. This action will rest pending upon the resolution of Spectrum-Holobyte's possibly legitimate claims of copyright infringement. I ask that all FTP sites that take their Fish Disks from the UIUC collection remove the zoo files from their Fish Disk archives as well. Let me add that I do not necessarily agree with S-H's bullying: their claims may be largely valid, but in many ways I doubt that they are sufficiently valid for all of the programs withdrawn. Nonetheless, The Amiga Archive at UIUC purports to provide a VERBATIM collection of Fish Disks, and if Fred Fish withdraws a program from one of his disks, then NOBODY CAN LEGITIMATELY CLAIM THAT A DISK CONTAINING A WITHDRAWN PROGRAM IS A FISH DISK. If it is granted by Spectrum-Holobyte or by legal decision that a withdrawn program does not represent an infringement of copyright, then I will again make that program available outside of the Fish Disk directory tree on ux1. < Lionel Co-administrator of the Amiga Archive at UIUC: 128.174.5.59 ux1.cso.uiuc.edu ux1 uiucux1
olsen@hpfcdq.HP.COM (John Olsen) (06/11/90)
terry@helios.ucsc.edu (Terry Ricketts) writes: > It is too late now to stuff this cat into the bag. The PD versions of >Tetris have been out too long and spread too far. The most Spectrum Holobyte >can do is preasure people like Fred & make public posturings. [...] gwangung@milton.acs.washington.edu (Roger Tang) writes: > The Russian inventor of Tetris invents the game. > He markets the game internationally. > He licenses the game to Spectrum Holobyte, who is responsible for >distributing and protecting HIS rights. > Clones appear, ripping off the Tetris name. This hurts not only >Spectrum Holobyte as AMerican distributor but the original, Russian author. First mistake. Some of the games do not infringe on the name. The ones that do can be renamed. The two most recent versions that appeared on the Fish disks also have extended features and *major* differences form the original tetris game, like simultaneous two player modes and new pieces. They can be termed "derivative works" instead of "clones". > Spectrum Holobyte moves to protect its rights as distributor and >the rights of the Russian author. > And YOU TELL ME THAT THIS IS BAD???? In the cases where the games bear a great similarity, or where they use a name derived from the copyrighted "Tetris" name, SH *should* do what they have done. In the other cases, SH is just strongarming people. Fred Fish is being very polite and gentlemanly by stopping distribution after receiving a letter from the president of SH. I personally will keep recommending and distributing (with good conscience) the ones that I feel are not "clones" until I hear of a real legal decision stating that they are an infringement. I don't believe such a statement will ever be made. John Olsen olsen@hpfcdq.HP.COM
monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) (06/11/90)
Is "obsess" the exploding tetris clone? If it is, can someone e-mail me a copy. Thanks Monty Saine
terry@comcon.UUCP (Terry LaGrone) (06/12/90)
Following the many comments about Tetris, last week's Wall Street gives a very good summary of Soviet capitalism at work. Really a botched up job. Spectrum Holobyte appears to be a bit player in the world of Tetris but still too big for a poor struggling PD distributor to fight. T. LaGrone --- on the edge of Siberia, Alaska
rchampe@hubcap.clemson.edu (Richard Champeaux) (06/12/90)
In article <1990Jun10.191013.26855@uncecs.edu> urjlew@uncecs.edu (Rostyk Lewyckyj) writes: >In article <3998@milton.acs.washington.edu>, gwangung@milton.acs.washington.edu (Roger Tang) writes: >> Clones appear, ripping off the Tetris name. This hurts not only >> Spectrum Holobyte as AMerican distributor but the original, Russian author. >> >> Spectrum Holobyte moves to protect its rights as distributor and >> the rights of the Russian author. >> All this talk about protecting the rights of the Russian author reminds me of an article I read in "News Week" not too long ago. At least I think it was News Week, although it could have been one of the others. Anyhow, the title of the article was something like "In Russian, Copyright means right to copy". The article went on to say that the majority of the programs in use in the U.S.S.R are illegal copies. I can't seem to find the article, but it was sometime around late March and early April. I found the magazine on a plane, took it with me and left it on another plane. I'll look for it again, and if I find it, I'll either post a summary, or the article itself. It was fairly interesting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rich Champeaux PLT: The plotter device for the Amiga! rchampe@hubcap.clemson.edu Ask for it at your neighborhood FTP site! "People say I'm lazy, but it takes all my time." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
schow@bcarh185.bnr.ca (Stanley T.H. Chow) (06/12/90)
In article <4710018@hpfcdq.HP.COM> olsen@hpfcdq.HP.COM (John Olsen) writes: > The two most recent versions that appeared on the >Fish disks also have extended features and *major* differences form the >original tetris game, like simultaneous two player modes and new pieces. >They can be termed "derivative works" instead of "clones". Note that even "derivative works" must be licensed by the original creators. This is, of course, how people get rich by selling the "movie rights". By your argument, Spectrum Holobyte is doing what is legally required of them. (As we all know, copyright that is not enforced is easily lost :-) Stanley Chow BitNet: schow@BNR.CA BNR UUCP: ..!psuvax1!BNR.CA.bitnet!schow (613) 763-2831 ..!utgpu!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!schow%bcarh185 Me? Represent other people? Don't make them laugh so hard.