wizard@sosaria.imp.com (Chris Brand) (05/25/90)
A few weeks ago, I wrote a letter to Microsoft Corp. in West Germany, asking them if they had any plans to produce software for the Amiga. The answer was what I expected - no. So far so bad. Yesterday, I installed WinWords (Word for Windows) on a 386. After I had to do it 3 times because of memory troubles or false mouse drivers (it seems that you can't install another mouse driver - you have to do the whole thing again) I started the program and couldn't help laughing. If you pull down a menu using the keyboard, not the mouse, and then change to another window using the cursor keys, it takes about 1 second to refresh the screen (erase the old menu and draw the new one) :-) Microsoft had better produce WinWord for the Amiga 3000. There at least it wouldn't take 1 second to refresh the screen. -- ------------------------------------ Chris Brand - wizard@sosaria.imp.com "Justice is the possession and doing of what one is entitled to" - Platon ------------------------------------
a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) (05/28/90)
In article <04206.AA04206@sosaria.imp.com> wizard@sosaria.imp.com (Chris Brand) writes: >A few weeks ago, I wrote a letter to Microsoft Corp. in West Germany, asking >them >if they had any plans to produce software for the Amiga. The answer was what I >expected - no. Count your blessings. >[horror story deleted] I could tell you horror stories about writing commercial software for MS-DOS. Things like how the COPY command will refuse to copy a zero-length file, but will still delete a currently-existing destination file (this one caused a beta site in Montreal to not only die at month-end, but to also lose the entire month's transactions). There's nothing surprising about WinWords being slow. Try playing with AmigaBASIC for a while. One of my pet claims for the Amiga is that as long as I don't use AmigaBASIC I can avoid ever running anything written by Microsoft. I'd rather stay away from quirky code written by a company whose policy seems to be "That's not a bug, it's a feature!" Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.UUCP "I'm cursed with hair from HELL!" -- Night Court
jma@beach.cis.ufl.edu (John 'Vlad' Adams) (05/28/90)
In article <04206.AA04206@sosaria.imp.com> wizard@sosaria.imp.com (Chris Brand) writes: > >A few weeks ago, I wrote a letter to Microsoft Corp. in West Germany, >asking them if they had any plans to produce software for the Amiga. >The answer was what I expected - no. Thank GOD!! >So far so bad. Yesterday, I installed WinWords (Word for Windows) on a 386. >After I had to do it 3 times because of memory troubles or false mouse >drivers (it seems that you can't install another mouse driver - you have >to do the whole thing again) I started the program and couldn't help laughing. Welcome to the wonderful world of Windows. And this was just trying to install a Windows-specific application. Now try installing a non-windows program. Or better yet, try formatting two disks at once. It doesn't do it, at least on Windows/386 on a Model 70 with 4 megs of RAM. >Microsoft had better produce WinWord for the Amiga 3000. There at least >it wouldn't take 1 second to refresh the screen. Why would you want WinWord for the Amiga? There are a handful of powerful Amiga-dedicated word processors already out for the Amiga! Someone once said on comp.sys.amiga that: "Some consider it a blessing that Microsoft doesn't produce software for the Amiga." (Sorry for the paraphrasing.) I couldn't agree more. -- John M. Adams --**-- Professional Student on the six-year plan! /// Internet: jma@beach.cis.ufl.edu -or- vladimir@maple.circa.ufl.edu /// "Houston, we have a negative on that orbit trajectory." Calvin & Hobbes \\V// Cosysop of BBS:42; Amiga BBS FIDOnet 1:3612/42. 904-438-4803 (Florida) \X/
gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) (05/30/90)
In article <04206.AA04206@sosaria.imp.com> wizard@sosaria.imp.com (Chris Brand) writes: > >A few weeks ago, I wrote a letter to Microsoft Corp. in West Germany, asking them >if they had any plans to produce software for the Amiga. The answer was what I >expected - no. Why should a company which has market share in many major categories on an architecture that has an installed base of 20+ million capable machines bother to expend resources on the Amiga? >So far so bad. Yesterday, I installed WinWords (Word for Windows) on a 386. After >I had to do it 3 times because of memory troubles or false mouse drivers (it seems >you can't install another mouse driver - you have to do the whole thing again) Ever try acid...it'll help you configure your system even better... (mabe you have a different mouse that is not immediately recognizable to the setup program, and then all you have to do is place the device driver disk in the floppy drive <the opening in the front of the computer> and presto!) >I started the program and couldn't help laughing. >If you pull down a menu using the keyboard, not the mouse, and then change to >another window using the cursor keys, it takes about 1 second to refresh the >screen (erase the old menu and draw the new one) :-) I've never noticed that...but I guess doing such esoteric things as using the keyboard controls for a menu are above me. Windows Word is quite possibly the finest word processor for the PC...which would place it several generations above any current Amiga word processor. >Microsoft had better produce WinWord for the Amiga 3000. There at least it wouldn't >take 1 second to refresh the screen. It would be such a son of a gun to program on the Amiga...I fail to see how they would recoop their investment... They have already set up a very neat system where code is shared across architectures (MAC,OS/2,DOS) that allows for releases on the major platforms very close to each other...the Amiga would be a very difficult platform to provide for...not too much for a company with MS's resources, but I think the Amiga does fine with the current software vendors anyway...Microsoft would be an invaluable addition...but I ain't gonna happen. >------------------------------------ >Chris Brand - wizard@sosaria.imp.com >"Justice is the possession and doing >of what one is entitled to" - Platon >------------------------------------ Justice is a good handgun...at least in the US it is. ---- Co-Op Scum (Name withheld by stupidity)
mwarnett@well.sf.ca.us (Martin Warnett) (05/30/90)
jma@beach.cis.ufl.edu (John 'Vlad' Adams) writes: >Why would you want WinWord for the Amiga? There are a handful of powerful >Amiga-dedicated word processors already out for the Amiga! Lets stop kidding ourselves. There's a lot of great software for the amiga but when it comes to word processing, spreadsheets etc. there is nothing that compares with MS Word, 123 etc. I hope that will change soon. -- +-----------------------+------------------------+--------------------+ | Martin Warnett | apple!well!mwarnett | BIX: mwarnett | | San Francisco, CA | mwarnett@well.sf.ca.us | WELL: mwarnett | +-----------------------+------------------------+--------------------+
monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) (05/30/90)
In article <1990May29.212202.10871@watdragon.waterloo.edu> gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: > >They have already set up a very neat system where code is shared across >architectures (MAC,OS/2,DOS) that allows for releases on the major platforms >very close to each other...the Amiga would be a very difficult platform to >provide for...not too much for a company with MS's resources, but I think the >Amiga does fine with the current software vendors anyway...Microsoft would >be an invaluable addition...but I ain't gonna happen. > If they have this "very neat system where code is shared across architectures" why do you think the Amiga would be a "very difficult platform to provide for" sounds like a typical microsu**k thinking to me. I for one am VERY glad that they do not support the Amiga. It give the Amiga a better sense of reality. Monty Saine
a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) (05/31/90)
In article <1990May31.091532.18895@watdragon.waterloo.edu> gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: >Listen dweeb, I plainly stated that they already have IN EXISTENCE a platform >independant system which was obviously designed with considerations from >all three operating systems. Obviously a radically different system like >the Amiga (and it's lack of many of Windows,OS/2's SDK niceties) would >present a difficulty. I should know better than to get dragged into a flame war, but I just can't resist... :-) >Please! And I suppose there is software like Excel, and WordForWindows >on the Amiga? How about Works, it sells in a bundle with more PC's >per month than Commodore sells Amigas in a year. EVERYTHING is ForWindows on the Amiga! As for Works, do people get it because they really want it, or because it's in the bundle? (Serious question here - I really don't know the answer. Percentages would help.) >Given the choice of driving a Jaguar with mouldy seat covers, or a >brand new Ford Tempo ... you would probably walk. My Reeboks would probably do well during rush hour. :-) >Besides, Microsoft has adopted a zero bugs policy. (a change for >the better I must say) Talking about a "zero bugs policy" is rash to the point of silliness. High reliability is an admirable goal, and indeed a "change for the better." But I've worked on enough medium to large software projects to be skeptical of anyone who claims there can't be some small bugs still lurking somewhere. Of course, you could always define them away: "That's not a bug, it's a feature!" However, I do have one more serious question: which of "many of Windows,OS/2's SDK niceties" are missing from the Amiga? The Mac is a "radically different system" yet they managed to cope. I haven't gotten into either Windows or OS/2 and am curious. (If they're significant, maybe Commodore should be curious too.) Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.UUCP For every vision there is an equal and opposite revision.
gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) (05/31/90)
In article <795@sagpd1.UUCP> monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) writes: >In article <1990May29.212202.10871@watdragon.waterloo.edu> gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: >> >>They have already set up a very neat system where code is shared across >>architectures (MAC,OS/2,DOS) that allows for releases on the major platforms > >architectures" why do you think the Amiga would be a "very difficult >platform to provide for" sounds like a typical microsu**k thinking to me. Listen dweeb, I plainly stated that they already have IN EXISTENCE a platform independant system which was obviously designed with considerations from all three operating systems. Obviously a radically different system like the Amiga (and it's lack of many of Windows,OS/2's SDK niceties) would present a difficulty. >I for one am VERY glad that they do not support the Amiga. It give the >Amiga a better sense of reality. > >Monty Saine Please! And I suppose there is software like Excel, and WordForWindows on the Amiga? How about Works, it sells in a bundle with more PC's per month than Commodore sells Amigas in a year. Given the choice of driving a Jaguar with mouldy seat covers, or a brand new Ford Tempo ... you would probably walk. Besides, Microsoft has adopted a zero bugs policy. (a change for the better I must say) ---- Co-Op Scum
lennox@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Craig Scott Lennox) (06/01/90)
In article <1990May31.091532.18895@watdragon.waterloo.edu> gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: > Besides, Microsoft has adopted a zero bugs policy. Is that anything like George Bush's "zero tolerance" policy?? :-) Kinda sums up my opinion of Microsoft, too. -- | flame me at: lennox@shire.hw.stratus.com, Craig Lennox, Stratus Computer | |"Oh boy, virtual memory! Now I'm gonna make myself a REALLY BIG ram disk!" | | Disclaimer: My opinions are covered by section 2b of the Gnu Public | | License and thus do not belong to Stratus Computer. |
conca@handel.CS.ColoState.Edu (michael vincen conca) (06/01/90)
In article <1990May31.091532.18895@watdragon.waterloo.edu> gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: > >Besides, Microsoft has adopted a zero bugs policy. > ^^^^^^^^^ WARINING!! WARNING!! WARNING!! Oxymoron alert! ... Oxymoron alert! ... Oxymoron alert! Please note that the surgeon general has determined that gut splitting laughter caused by such statements may be hazardous to you health. SO STOP IT!! ;-) -=*=--=*=--=*=--=*=--=*=--=*=--=*=--=*=--=*=--=*=--=*=--=*=--=*=--=*=--=*=- Mike Conca, Computer Science Dept. * conca@handel.cs.colostate.edu Colorado State University * conca@129.82.102.32 "What's the connection between computer science and Chinese food?"
" Seaman) (06/01/90)
gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: < monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) writes: < >gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: < >>They have already set up a very neat system where code is shared across < >>architectures (MAC,OS/2,DOS) that allows for releases on the major platforms < > < >architectures" why do you think the Amiga would be a "very difficult < >platform to provide for" sounds like a typical microsu**k thinking to me. < < Listen dweeb, I plainly stated that they already have IN EXISTENCE a platform < independant system which was obviously designed with considerations from < all three operating systems. Obviously a radically different system like < the Amiga (and it's lack of many of Windows,OS/2's SDK niceties) would < present a difficulty. If their development 'system' is platform independent, then the 'niceties' of SDK would have no bearing on it. The fact is that their development environment is *very* specific to three (and ONLY three) platforms, namely MS-DOS, OS/2, and the Mac. If they were truly platform independent, the core logic for their applications would not care what the machine or OS were. < >I for one am VERY glad that they do not support the Amiga. It give the < >Amiga a better sense of reality. < > < >Monty Saine < < Please! And I suppose there is software like Excel, and WordForWindows < on the Amiga? How about Works, it sells in a bundle with more PC's < per month than Commodore sells Amigas in a year. Excel is very nice (assuming you have the minimum 2MB expanded memory required to run it). Word for Windows is also very nice. It has a ton of features. Unfortunately, those features get in the way of complex things such as editing a 2 page document that has more than one font. Then you start getting messages about being unable to display the selected font, and being unable to load the spell checker or thesaurus or *help*. Yup, a couple of real winners there. Understand that I'm not saying that MS-DOS is necessarily trash. I own an MS-DOS based PC, and find it quite useful. However, if I had to part with one of my machines, I would lose the PC long before my Amiga. As I've told my wife, the only way anyone will get my Amiga is by prying it out of my cold, dead fingers :-). < Given the choice of driving a Jaguar with mouldy seat covers, or a < brand new Ford Tempo ... you would probably walk. No, I'd strip out the moldy seat covers, put in nice leather seats, and blow the doors of the Escort. But then again, my version of the analogy likens the Amiga to the Jag (with leather seats, of course) :-). < Besides, Microsoft has adopted a zero bugs policy. (a change for the better < I must say) Oh really? Do they plan to recall *EVERY* product they have on the market? They would have to, in order to abide by that policy (and that includes DOS). It will be years before they ever get anything even close to 'zero bugs', which we all know is impossible (from a practical standpoint). < ---- < Co-Op Scum I really don't want to start another pointless flame war here. Really, I don't. I think there is definitely room in the world for Mac's, IBM's, and Amiga's. I just get very tired of people trying (and failing) to sound high and mighty by telling us what a failure the Amiga is since it doesn't have Excel or Microsoft Word. There are more important things than word processing and spreadsheets. Besides, from what I've read about ProWrite 3.0, it may just give Word a serious run for the money. -- Chris (Insert phrase here) Seaman | /--\ cseaman@sequent <or> | | | "This is as real as ...!uunet!sequent!cseaman | | \ | your so-called 'Life' gets" The Home of the Killer Smiley | \--X__
gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) (06/01/90)
In article <795@sagpd1.UUCP> monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) writes: >In article <1990May29.212202.10871@watdragon.waterloo.edu> gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: >> >>They have already set up a very neat system where code is shared across >>architectures (MAC,OS/2,DOS) that allows for releases on the major platforms > > If they have this "very neat system where code is shared across >architectures" why do you think the Amiga would be a "very difficult >platform to provide for" sounds like a typical microsu**k thinking to me. >I for one am VERY glad that they do not support the Amiga. It give the >Amiga a better sense of reality. > >Monty Saine Silly me, I should have better constrained my response: The Amiga (which I own, and love, but lets leave the religion beads at home fellas) doesn't have a true software development kit which allows programs to be created from the ground up easily. I would have to say the Windows SDK is probably the easiest I have used, whereas programming the Amiga would be "a bear". The resources for menus, gadgets, scroll bars, and dialogs weren't available when MS first looked at the Amiga. They can't turn back now because the Amiga has changed, because they so much invested in the two largest personal computer/ office computer platforms. Also, about the guy who laughed at the no bugs policy...pthtthptttt! Windows 3.0 has to run on a large number of machines, and was in fact rigorously beta tested by several thousand sites. It is much more stable than Amiga Dos 1.3 even. (sorry best comparison I can make in this group). I appreciate Microsofts commitment, online support, update policies and most of their business practices. They've don right by me... ---- Co-Op Scum gpsteffl!sunee.waterloo.edu (hot in here from all the sparcs)
bn@okcusr.UUCP (06/01/90)
> Amiga does fine with the current software vendors anyway...Microsoft would > be an invaluable addition...but I ain't gonna happen. hmmm sounds like the infamous quote: "There WILL NEVER be need for more than 640K of memory." (the moral of this: Never say never) p.s. no matter how pathetic Microsoft software might be, they are one of the industry's driving forces, and their presence on the Amiga would give the platform much more credibility.
wizard@sosaria.imp.com (Chris Brand) (06/02/90)
In article <18213@well.sf.ca.us> mwarnett@well.sf.ca.us (Martin Warnett) says: > Lets stop kidding ourselves. There's a lot of great software for the > amiga but when it comes to word processing, spreadsheets etc. there is > nothing that compares with MS Word, 123 etc. Unfortunately, you're right. WordPerfect 4.2 was a good start, but it could use improvement (it's not exactly multitasking-friendly). Also, Excel for the Amiga would be greatly appreciated (at least by me). > I hope that will change soon. So do I. -- ------------------------------------ Chris Brand - wizard@sosaria.imp.com "Justice is the possession and doing of what one is entitled to" - Platon ------------------------------------
monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) (06/02/90)
In article <1990Jun1.025700.22540@watdragon.waterloo.edu> gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: >Silly me, I should have better constrained my response: > >doesn't have a true software development kit which allows programs to be created In that case don't try to program a MAC either as there "development kit is also not existant" or so the local MAC guru tells me. >from the ground up easily. I would have to say the Windows SDK is probably >the easiest I have used, whereas programming the Amiga would be "a bear". The >resources for menus, gadgets, scroll bars, and dialogs weren't available when If that is the case then MS looked at the amiga about TWO years before it was released. >MS first looked at the Amiga. They can't turn back now because the Amiga has >changed, because they so much invested in the two largest personal computer/ >office computer platforms. > >Also, about the guy who laughed at the no bugs policy...pthtthptttt! > >Windows 3.0 has to run on a large number of machines, and was in fact >rigorously beta tested by several thousand sites. It is much more stable >than Amiga Dos 1.3 even. (sorry best comparison I can make in this >group). > >I appreciate Microsofts commitment, online support, update policies and most If they have online support why do they not publish the number of this in there documentation? Are they afraid some one will call with a bug and spoil your 0% errors ? I am forced to use Microsuck C version 5.1 here at work and spent a whole day going through the manual trying to find a number to call for help when I could not get Code View to co-exist with our LAN software. Try debugging a LAN driver with CodeView when you can't have them both in memory at the same time. It seems that my brain dead AT with 4 Megs of expanded memory runs out of TSR space running this applications together. After I stripped out all the tools that make a PC useable (ie superkey and a mouse driver and menu) I was finally able to get it to run. For all it's greatness a "STANDARD AT" still has a 640K program limit. If it weren't for third party support the #$%@ machine would not be useable! >of their business practices. They've don right by me... > My first felling was to email a response to you when I first read your DWEEB message to me but refrained until I had read this moronic response Please go stick your head back into your PC and kiss your Micrs$#% good- nite and refrain from cluttering up this group any further with your "My computer is better than yours" dribble. I simply,orginally asked what was so radical about the AMIGA platform that it could not be translated to. Monty Saine
rar@auc.UUCP (Rodney Ricks) (06/02/90)
In article <1439@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> lennox@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Craig Scott Lennox) writes: >In article <1990May31.091532.18895@watdragon.waterloo.edu> gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: > >> Besides, Microsoft has adopted a zero bugs policy. Really? Does that also apply to their operating systems? If so, it will be a LONNNGGG time before the next release of OS/2 (or Presentation Manager, or Windows, or MSDOS). So, they have the policy. How will they enforce it? If one user finds a bug in MSDOS, will they recall all copies of it? :-) >Is that anything like George Bush's "zero tolerance" policy?? :-) How about, "No new taxes" ? :-) Yes, Word for Amiga would be nice to have, although an up-to-date version of WordPerfect would be much nicer. Rodney P.S. Does it also apply to Microsoft BASIC on the Amiga?
w-edwinh@microsoft.UUCP (Edwin HOOGERBEETS) (06/02/90)
In article <795@sagpd1.UUCP> monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) writes: %In article <1990May29.212202.10871@watdragon.waterloo.edu> gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: %>They have already set up a very neat system where code is shared across %>architectures (MAC,OS/2,DOS) that allows for releases on the major platforms %>very close to each other...the Amiga would be a very difficult platform to %>provide for... % % If they have this "very neat system where code is shared across %architectures" why do you think the Amiga would be a "very difficult %platform to provide for" sounds like a typical microsu**k thinking to me. Let's say Word came out for the Amiga. Now we have a serious business machine for word processing, with a choice of MS Word and Word Perfect, nicely intuitionized, multitasking, etc. As a business owner, you may now consider the Amiga a good choice for a new office machine over a 386 box, for example. But, businesses tend to buy more than one package: let's say the owner now wants to automate his accounting with his nifty new Amiga, so he goes out to buy some flashy Amiga spreadsheet... ... but now MS has just lost a sale of Excel! My point is that MS would have to port most of its apps to the Amiga all at once, so as not to loose sales. This would be a tremendous job, despite shared code, and would not gain MS any new sales of other products. "But there are people out there who already have an Amiga, and who want to run Word, or Excel, or... they would now be able to buy these things -- ie. new sales!" you might think. The installed base of the Amiga is just not big enough to warrant that, when you compare it to the PC/386 market. Granted, there would be new sales, but at a tremendous cost. For this reason, I think that MS will never port anything to the Amiga with Commodore's OS. These are my opinions, not MS's. And to those people bitching about MS's code quality: there is also some well-written code out here, if you would care to look. I know. I wrote some! ;-) Edwin
gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) (06/02/90)
In article <1962@mindlink.UUCP> a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) writes: >In article <1990May31.091532.18895@watdragon.waterloo.edu> >gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: > >>independant system which was obviously designed with considerations from >>all three operating systems. Obviously a radically different system like >>the Amiga (and it's lack of many of Windows,OS/2's SDK niceties) would >>present a difficulty. YIKES! Did I say that? I must appologise...pretty darn childish response... but then again, I was attempting to wake up those sorry Amiga eyes which haven't seen daylight since they got their hands on the IFF images of AmigaDOS 2.0 (Absolutely 3gazillion percent better than 1.3 C= !) > I should know better than to get dragged into a flame war, >but I just can't resist... :-) Ahhhh...the heart is willing but the mind has superuser status :-) > EVERYTHING is ForWindows on the Amiga! As for Works, do people >get it because they really want it, or because it's in the bundle? >(Serious question here - I really don't know the answer. Percentages >would help.) Ulp...er...yea yer right...but I do believe that will change for the majority of PC (286/386 variety) users in the immediate future. Word for Windows takes GUI that one extra step...it's called... "What You See Is REALLY What You Get and You Get it Good" So far, the Amiga lacks several key things: Output to printers that actually looks good. Programs should NOT have to have their own postscript support. Windows 3.0 has excellent output that is provided by using the same routines that print to the screen but are simply printed to a printer-device-context as opposed to the screen-device-context...absolutely painless for the programmer and you can be damn sure that the output will look good! >>Given the choice of driving a Jaguar with mouldy seat covers, or a >>brand new Ford Tempo ... you would probably walk. > > My Reeboks would probably do well during rush hour. :-) I guess the fact that my Tempo has a CD car sterio wouldn't change your mind? >>Besides, Microsoft has adopted a zero bugs policy. (a change for > > Talking about a "zero bugs policy" is rash to the point of >silliness. High reliability is an admirable goal, and indeed a This "zero-bugs" is a goal, not a rule. Microsoft has in the past released software which hadn't been completely tested. Things change and I am pleased with the results. I am not so pleased with the majority of the software for the Amiga because I seem to crash and burn often. Fortunately, I can always rely on good public domain/free/share soft-ware to get me thru when I am having troubles with the supposedly full blown commercial package. I can no longer afford new software currently, so it looks like ftp will be doing overtime for me. :-) >"change for the better." But I've worked on enough medium to >large software projects to be skeptical of anyone who claims >there can't be some small bugs still lurking somewhere. Of >course, you could always define them away: "That's not a bug, >it's a feature!" I have worked on several major projects myself (Windows 3.0 and the Windows 3.0 SDK being the most recent). I have confidence the large number (1000+) of beta sights found most of the remaining bugs in 3.0. > However, I do have one more serious question: which of "many >of Windows,OS/2's SDK niceties" are missing from the Amiga? The How about an editor for making dialog boxes complete with drop down combo boxes, list boxes, custom button controls. How about a Heap Walker (my little babe) which can track the memory` of a windows session and report all of the information about every memory hunk...and even display bit maps, show more info on data segments etc...etc...(it was a fun program to write!) How about resource files that contain all of the strings, dialogs, and data resources for a program. These files allow the menus to be defined using a CASE like structure, resource strings may be defined so that the program need not be compiled to change the wording on an information reply...also allows easy translation to other languages. All of the resources are loaded either when first needed, or on program startup. This is very advantageous for low memory situations. How about all of this stuff available from one place, with an online service and trained staff. I am definately impressed with the network of support for Windows developers out there! I would have to say that Windows programming is much easier than Amiga programming partially because Windows handles many of the mundane things like memory (eg. dynamic link libraries, virtual memory, resources that are loaded automatically on call etc) and user input that are tiresome to code. I enjoy programming in an environment that generally makes applications conform to a standard. >Mac is a "radically different system" yet they managed to cope. >I haven't gotten into either Windows or OS/2 and am curious. >(If they're significant, maybe Commodore should be curious too.) Microsoft originally wrote a layer for the MAC that provided the needed functionality for Excel...killer app from hell that it is. This layer eventually evolved into the common layer which Excel is now built around. It would be a very formidable task to add the Amiga to this list (Windows,MAC,OS/2). >Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.UUCP >For every vision there is an equal and opposite revision. Hope this helps. ---- Co-Op Scum gpsteffl@sunee.waterloo.edu gpsteffl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca Glenn Patrick Steffler Windows 3.0 - GUI for the GOOIE
p554mve@mpirbn.UUCP (Michael van Elst) (06/02/90)
In article <1990May31.091532.18895@watdragon.waterloo.edu> gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: >Besides, Microsoft has adopted a zero bugs policy. (a change for the better >I must say) Quoting a non-related source that fits onto this statement. "This policy is just a policy. It has to be reflected in the code somewhere" :-) -- Michael van Elst UUCP: universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (06/04/90)
In-Reply-To: message from rar@auc.UUCP Heh-heh...zero-bugs... I assume this doesn't apply to operating systems developed by Microsoft...they've been updating MS-DOS for about 10 years now, and it still has some of the original bugs... Sean //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc | ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil | " Fanatics have their INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com | dreams, wherewith they | weave a paradise for RealWorld: Sean Cunningham | a sect. " Voice: (512) 994-1602 PLINK: ce3k* | -Keats | Call C.B.A.U.G. BBS (512) 883-8351 w/SkyPix | B^) VISION GRAPHICS B^) \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (06/07/90)
In article <1990May31.091532.18895@watdragon.waterloo.edu> gpsteffler@tiger.uwaterloo.ca (Glenn Steffler) writes: > >Besides, Microsoft has adopted a zero bugs policy. (a change for the better >I must say) Probably just a truncation error when googleplex overflowed a binary coded decimal numeric field. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (06/09/90)
w-edwinh@microsoft.UUCP (Edwin HOOGERBEETS) writes: >But, businesses tend to buy more than one package: let's say the owner >now wants to automate his accounting with his nifty new Amiga, so he >goes out to buy some flashy Amiga spreadsheet... >... but now MS has just lost a sale of Excel! Er, that doesn't wash Edwin. How did they lose a sale? Gee if you figure it like you do above, then Microsoft is losing thousands of sales on the Amiga right now, since they have no products out on the Amiga, and Amigans must buy competitive packages. They better hurry up and port their stuff over to the Amiga right away, before they lose too many sales and have to file chapter 11!! -- John Sparks | D.I.S.K. 24hrs 2400bps. Accessable via Starlink (Louisville KY) sparks@corpane.UUCP | | PH: (502) 968-DISK A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of. - Ogden Nash
gpsteffl@sunee.waterloo.edu (Glenn Patrick Steffler) (06/11/90)
In article <1897@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >w-edwinh@microsoft.UUCP (Edwin HOOGERBEETS) writes: > Edwin preceeded this block below with a statement that Word For Windows for the Amiga would require a large scale effort to port the other major MS apps like Excel and Powerpoint (Ok, Edwin didn't mention powerpoint)... >>But, businesses tend to buy more than one package: let's say the owner >>now wants to automate his accounting with his nifty new Amiga, so he >>goes out to buy some flashy Amiga spreadsheet... > >>... but now MS has just lost a sale of Excel! > >Er, that doesn't wash Edwin. How did they lose a sale? Gee if you figure They lost the sale because joseph shmazola (or jane shmazola :-) bought Word For Windows for the Amiga and decided that Excel would be a useful application. Oops..now MS has to port yet another maga app to yet another platform. Blech...they don't need to do that because of the very large base of capable machines which will soon/or are running Windows..so Joe Shmo (short form...sorry joseph) has to either buy some lousy Amiga spreadsheet or forgoe the aforementioned purchase. If JS decided instead to buy either a Mac (not optimal) or a PC (still not optimal) then he could buy both applications and have dynamic data exchange transfer info between then (sounds a lot like AREXX, but is done at a higher level in Word/Excel allows for changes in one document to be mirrored in another Excel-Word-PageMaker etc) for added utility. >it like you do above, then Microsoft is losing thousands of sales on the >Amiga right now, since they have no products out on the Amiga, and Amigans >must buy competitive packages. They better hurry up and port their stuff They aren't 'losing' a sale because nobody with an Amiga in their right mind bought it for the Word processesing and spreadsheet (office automation) tasks, rather for its video and sound multitasking capabilities. >over to the Amiga right away, before they lose too many sales and have to >file chapter 11!! Chapter 11...Hey, congrats man, I didn't know you were so advanced. Apparently you are no longer reading Dick and Jane... :-) You really are impressing me now...I like the double exclamation marks!! Nice touch. >John Sparks | D.I.S.K. 24hrs 2400bps. Accessable via Starlink (Louisville KY) >sparks@corpane.UUCP | | PH: (502) 968-DISK >A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of. - Ogden Nash -- Co-Op _____ "Bo doesn't know software" - George Brett Scum _/|__Q_\___ U of | ww--+----#\ "Faces are twisted and grotesque" - Mystic Rhythms (Rush) Loo'91 ~~()~~~~~()~~ Glenn Patrick Steffler
w-edwinh@microsoft.UUCP (Edwin HOOGERBEETS) (06/12/90)
In article <1897@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: %w-edwinh@microsoft.UUCP (Edwin HOOGERBEETS) writes: %>But, businesses tend to buy more than one package: let's say the owner %>now wants to automate his accounting with his nifty new Amiga, so he %>goes out to buy some flashy Amiga spreadsheet... % %>... but now MS has just lost a sale of Excel! %Er, that doesn't wash Edwin. How did they lose a sale? Well, you're right. I didn't really make my point that clear. I'll try again. Which machine the owner buys depends on what runs on that machine. In the story the way it is ------------ ------------- owner buys an Amiga based owner buys a PC based on the availability on the availablility of Word of Word owner buys Word owner buys Word (WinWord, whatever) And then: owner buys flashy amiga owner could buy Excel spreadsheet owner buys F18 or some such owner could buy MS Flight Simulator flight simulator owner buys networking owner could buy LanMan software etc.. The point was that to not loose the [potential] sales of other products, MS would have to port everything, OR port nothing, provided the decision to buy the machine was based on one or a few `productivity' programs. (reasonable assumption for most business PCs) `Nothing' is the easier and cheaper choice. The loss of sales from all the current Amiga owners is very small compared to the cost of porting everything at once. Edwin
Classic_-_Concepts@cup.portal.com (06/14/90)
Want to get Billie's attention? Magic incantations should include:
Baby ... optical disk ... computer on every desk ... under $1,000
... computer on every desk ... optical disk ... computer
Some interesting psychology here. I watch people talking about luring
Microsoft into developing software for the Amiga, yet in every interview
Boy Wonder talks about a computer on every desk, optical disks, a computer ..
If you want to get someone's attention, speak his/her language. Uttering
Amiga over and over and BASIC over and over and operating systems over and
over ** just ** isn't ** getting ** his attention. Why not try a different
tack??? Hmmm? Now, in unison, repeat after me ...
optical disk computer on every desk optical disk
ooooh, baby, baby, Baby
Julie (LadyHawke)