xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (06/27/90)
Please use a little common sense and courtesy when trying to sell your used Amiga games. According to the latest news.lists statistics, it costs $.0025 per kilobyte per site to post an article. The minimum size of text and header is around two kilobytes averaged over the net. There are in excess of 15,000 leaves in USENet. Your one little harmless posting has thus cost at least 15000*$0.0025*2 = $75.00 to the net, to sell your $15 game, and this only accounts for leaf costs, not inner node transit costs! If you must post games for sale to the net, start with the most local distribution available (local = your site), expand to city, region, state, after two weeks each. Never post wider than that. You will have much better luck selling games, and annoy a lot fewer people, if you join a local Amiga club and hawk your wares to its members. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> -- in the distance a roasted cave newt screamed in agony -- Andrew Palfreyman
aegnor@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (David C. Powell) (06/27/90)
In article <1990Jun26.233508.26963@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >Please use a little common sense and courtesy when trying to sell your ->LOTS deleted to save some money that Kent is SOOO worried about! >Kent, the man from xanth. This will be quick, sorry to double d@mn this silliness, I try and refrain from this type, but I do NOT want people to be put off, hey Kent, what if *I* want the game coming out of <insert state> and I can NOT find it local, like its out of PRINT/Company out of business <can you say old Infocom and old EA games, I new you could!> I want to see these posts, that is why I read them... thanks for your opinion, and I am gonna be nicely upset if all/majority of people refrain from posting games forsale.. sorry again, but to reiterate DO NOT stop, I may want that $15 game, and what if <insert person> refrains from posting, there goes how I have boughten <looks up at shelf and at desk where his USED A1000+1020+10 or more games he has boughten because of posts to the 'net') a good 'hunk' of some of my most favorite games (good and inexpensive, cuz they are USED) and my computer that I bought... sorry Kent, this is a good use for the net, much better than these endless tirades about people who pirate, IMHO -dcp p.s. sorry for the cross-post, Kent did it so I did too, bad excuse I know, but I wanted to hit the same people he did! David C. Powell M.I.S. Graduate Class of 1990 Ball State University Muncie, Indiana *-David Powell :ARPA: aegnor@bsu-cs.bsu.edu--------------------------* | \/ President :UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!aegnor | | /\etwnk Industries, Ltd. : | *-"If it doesn't work, we DIDN'T do it!"-----------------------------*
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (06/28/90)
In article <11361@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> aegnor@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (David C. Powell) writes: >In article <1990Jun26.233508.26963@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> >xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >>Please use a little common sense and courtesy when trying to sell your >->LOTS deleted to save some money that Kent is SOOO worried about! >>Kent, the man from xanth. >This will be quick, sorry to double d@mn this silliness, I try and refrain >from this type, but I do NOT want people to be put off, hey Kent, what >if *I* want the game coming out of <insert state> and I can NOT find it local, >like its out of PRINT/Company out of business <can you say old Infocom and >old EA games, I new you could!> I want to see these posts, that is why I >read them... thanks for your opinion, and I am gonna be nicely upset if >all/majority of people refrain from posting games forsale.. sorry again, >but to reiterate DO NOT stop, [et cetera, et cetera ... ;-( ] Well, you do as you please, this is an anarchy, and no one can easily stop you. My original posting, however, was written to appeal to those who might be able to bring some common sense to bear on the question. There are reasons to do so. The latest news from Australia is that they just lost the entire alt.* distribution (Can someone from Oz confirm?), including alt.sources.amiga; comp.sys.amiga{,*} and comp.{binaries,sources}.amiga are right up there at the top by volume of the remaining list of things that can be cut out to save money; when we are allowing ourselves to look like wastrels, some more sites, perhaps yours or one that feeds yours, may choose to drop the Amiga groups. All this _has_happened_ to the Amiga groups at least once since they were founded and gained one of the largest volumes on the net. Lots of sites dropped the Amiga groups when phone costs soared, and picked them back up only when new networks and faster modem hardware provided cheaper transmission routes. Cheaper does not mean free, and the budgets are starting to strain again. It only took publicity about a little complaint in the Houston Chronicle to get sites all over the world to review their need for the alt groups; many have dropped them in the few weeks since. How much publicity do you think the Amiga groups can withstand if we are being blatently inefficient in our use of net resources? I only led you to the issue, I can't force you to think. The "gimme" generation is alive and well. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> -- in the distance a roasted cave newt screamed in agony -- Andrew Palfreyman
xrtnt@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Nigel Tzeng) (06/28/90)
In article <1990Jun27.185759.8281@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>, xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes... ^In article <11361@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> aegnor@bsu-cs.bsu.edu ^(David C. Powell) writes: ^>In article <1990Jun26.233508.26963@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> ^>xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: [Dave saying I want to see those ads! Deleted] ^ ^Well, you do as you please, this is an anarchy, and no one can easily stop ^you. My original posting, however, was written to appeal to those who ^might be able to bring some common sense to bear on the question. There ^are reasons to do so. How about a compromise and simply post to the forsale groups? I like seeing the ads too since I've pick up many things via these ads. If the concern is the traffic on the amiga groups the comprimise should be satifactory for all involved. Just make sure you include the word Amiga in your subject line ;-). Since this is an unmoderated group no one can tell you what to post or not to post but I wouldn't quite call it anarchy ;-). ^ [loss of alt groups and cost considerations for amiga.* groups deleted] ^ ^It only took publicity about a little complaint in the Houston Chronicle ^to get sites all over the world to review their need for the alt groups; ^many have dropped them in the few weeks since. How much publicity do you ^think the Amiga groups can withstand if we are being blatently inefficient ^in our use of net resources? We only lost the alt.sex.* groups and the junk group. The concern is probably more for potential legal problems that sites would rather not get involved in... Unless we start posting IFF nudes here I don't think many sites will review the amiga groups for these sort of concerns :-) (or is it :-(??? Politics/Constititution threads to one of the talk groups please...). ^ ^Kent, the man from xanth. ^<xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> Nuff Said...lets not spend another $75 (or whatever) bucks rehashing this ;-). NT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- // | Nigel Tzeng - STX Inc - NASA/GSFC COBE Project \X/ | xrtnt@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov | Amiga | Standard Disclaimer Applies: The opinions expressed are my own.
jac423@leah.Albany.Edu (Jules Cisek) (06/28/90)
I think the problem with the size of the comp.sys.amiga groups is not caused by selling software. It is caused by a great deal of people who just have to have a word about everything. The amiga newsgroups are filled with people disagreeing about this and that, very little information exchange actually takes place. It usually takes me about 1 hour to read the four groups, but I actually only read about 20 articles out of all of these. I don't think we should point fingers at specific problems (piracy discussions, for sale ads, arguing about how the net should be used and what groups we should support, etc.). We should simply cut back on the temptation to post all the time (especially when all we want to say is "Right on", or "Word up"). I know the temptation is huge to be part of discussion, part of the team, but really, mail is a much better way of communicating your ideas to other users. The only time you should post is when your posting absolutely has to be seen by everyone on the net. Even then, think about just how far the message has to go, and don't use world distribution unless you have to. Sometimes I get the feeling that many of you just post so that the amiga groups are the biggest... That's truly silly, since bulk doesn't make the information any more worthwhile. I know my post is not going to a bit of difference, but I really feel this is a way to cut down on the hugeness of this thing, certainly not by cutting out for sale ads. -- | // Amiga Student on Campus Consultant Jules Cisek I do think | | \X/ Computing Services Center Consultant SUNYA, NY USA it's good! | | AMIGA Computer Science Major/Music Minor jac423@leah.albany.edu |
richard@cs.ua.oz.au (Richard Siggs) (07/02/90)
In article <1990Jun27.185759.8281@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>, xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: |> |>The latest news from Australia is that they just lost the entire alt.* |>distribution (Can someone from Oz confirm?), including alt.sources.amiga; |>comp.sys.amiga{,*} and comp.{binaries,sources}.amiga are right up there |>at the top by volume of the remaining list of things that can be cut out |>to save money; when we are allowing ourselves to look like wastrels, some |>more sites, perhaps yours or one that feeds yours, may choose to drop the |>Amiga groups. All this _has_happened_ to the Amiga groups at least once |>since they were founded and gained one of the largest volumes on the net. |>Lots of sites dropped the Amiga groups when phone costs soared, and picked |>them back up only when new networks and faster modem hardware provided |>cheaper transmission routes. Cheaper does not mean free, and the budgets |>are starting to strain again. |> |>It only took publicity about a little complaint in the Houston Chronicle |>to get sites all over the world to review their need for the alt groups; |>many have dropped them in the few weeks since. How much publicity do you |>think the Amiga groups can withstand if we are being blatently inefficient |>in our use of net resources? |> |>I only led you to the issue, I can't force you to think. The "gimme" |>generation is alive and well. |> I can confirm for all of you. The administrators of AARNet (Australian Academic Research Network) stopped all alt.sex.* & alt.drugs groups from entering their network (which is the main/only backbone Aust. wide network) at the link to Hawaii (in Melbourne Uni., Victoria). So, we've still got ALL the groups we proviously had, but alt.sex.* & alt.drugs (ONLY) aren't getting any DIRECT posting (you can still cross-post to these groups :-)! Well, there you have it..Just when you thought it was safe to look at that gif....! Richard Siggs | "As the joys of Heaven are enjoyed by men, Computer Science Dept., | so shall the pains of Hell be suffered. Adelaide University, | For they will be men still, South Australia. | so they will act and feel as men." ACSnet: richard@cs.ua.oz.au | - quote from the film "Bliss".
lord@leadsv.UUCP (Parker Lord) (07/03/90)
I think its funny how an article was posted to complain about wasting bandwidth on the net for a For Sale post that takes up maybe ten lines, and then for the next week or so there are 20 - 30 postings, amany of which contain the last two previous postings, that appearred using approximatley 9000% more space than anyones For Sale posting ever would. Isnt that kind of ironic? +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // AA M M I GGGGGG AA | | Parker J. Lord // A A MM MM G A A | | lord@leadsv.UUCP // A A M M M M I G A A | | 415-326-7539 \\ // AAAAAA M M M I G GGG AAAAAA | | \\ // A A M M I G G A A | | \\/ A A M M I GGGGGG A A | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
aliu@aludra.usc.edu (Alex Liu) (07/03/90)
In article <11963@leadsv.UUCP> lord@leadsv.UUCP (Parker Lord) writes: > >I think its funny how an article was posted to complain about wasting bandwidth >on the net for a For Sale post that takes up maybe ten lines, and then for the This does not pertain to the subject, but I was wondering how you people have the guts to sell your stuff over long distance. I mean say if you live in Pasadena, California, and post your A2630 for sale on USENET. Joe Blow from Pasadena, Texas see's it and wants to buy it. How do you guys do the transaction? Do you send your A2630 and Joe Blow send his check at the same time, Federal Express? Geez man, what if at the last minute, Joe Blow didn't send his check and received your card and cross the border into another country? Just a hypothical situation....
swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) (07/03/90)
In article <10549@chaph.usc.edu> aliu@aludra.usc.edu (Alex Liu) writes: [...] >send his check at the same time, Federal Express? Geez man, what if >at the last minute, Joe Blow didn't send his check and received your >card and cross the border into another country? [...] COD works for me... -- _. --Steve ._||__ DISCLAIMER: All opinions are my own. Warren v\ *| ---------------------------------------------- V {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM
kosma%human-torch@STC.LOCKHEED.COM (Monty Kosma) (07/04/90)
From: Alex Liu <aliu@aludra.usc.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Date: 3 Jul 90 06:15:53 GMT Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Sender: amiga-relay-request@udel.edu In article <11963@leadsv.UUCP> lord@leadsv.UUCP (Parker Lord) writes: > >I think its funny how an article was posted to complain about wasting bandwidth >on the net for a For Sale post that takes up maybe ten lines, and then for the This does not pertain to the subject, but I was wondering how you people have the guts to sell your stuff over long distance. I mean say if you live in Pasadena, California, and post your A2630 for sale on USENET. Joe Blow from Pasadena, Texas see's it and wants to buy it. How do you guys do the transaction? Do you send your A2630 and Joe Blow send his check at the same time, Federal Express? Geez man, what if at the last minute, Joe Blow didn't send his check and received your card and cross the border into another country? Just a hypothical situation.... well, lots to do with trust. Typically people with email accounts (esp. at "reputable" places like well-known companies or universities) have a somewhat stable location. Anyway, I've sold used games to people all over the U.S., and shipping charges have never amounted to more than one or two dollars each time. For something like an A2630 though, I'd send it insured and probably C.O.D. (there's a big diff between a $1000 piece of hardware and a $20 piece of software!!). Monty