stoller@cbmcel.UUCP (Martin S. Stoller) (07/18/90)
And Todays Winners Are!!! Following is from Peter Cherna. I believe it settles the Discussion before even started, but if anyone can LUCIDATE (NO FLAME, NOR WAR), please don't hesitate. /****** HEEEERRRREEEESSS Peter Cherna!!!! ******/ >Date: Tue, 17 Jul 90 11:50:06 EDT >From: cbmehq!cbmvax!peter (Peter Cherna) >Message-Id: <9007171550.AA09265@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com> >In-Reply-To: <157@cbmcel.UUCP> >References: <1990Jul14.043408.20134@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> >Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA I think only a lawyer can tell you what these terms legally mean. Also, that may vary from country to country. The biggest area of confusion is that the term PUBLIC DOMAIN is over-applied. People use it as the "catch-all" term to describe all software they get on Fish disks, BBS's, comp.binaries.*, User Group Disks, etc. So we have the "user"'s definition of PD (which is WRONG) PD = all software that is not commercial In reality, PD software is more specific than that. Public Domain quite literally means what is says. The OWNERSHIP of the software (and source, too, if the source is marked PD) belongs to the PUBLIC AT LARGE. I.e. everybody is free to take it, use it, modify it. The correct term for all software which is not commercially distributed is FREELY REDISTRIBUTABLE. This includes Public Domain. So, if someone wants to let anybody have a copy of his program, but still retain some control, that is, to apply certain conditions, for example: May not be sold for profit. May not be modified. etc. then they call it Freely Redistributable, which means you are free to pass it around. The software is NOT in the public domain, since the author still owns the rights. (Public Domain means the ownership rights are public). Sometimes you see "Freely Redistributable with the following conditions". A special kind of Freely Redistributable software is SHAREWARE, which usually comes in three kinds: 1) If you like this program, please send money. 2) If you use this program, you must send money. 3) If you would like the full version, please send money. #1 is nice, because it is legal to use such a program without paying, but if you really appreciate it, please send money. #2 is really a commercial program that uses BBS's and club disks to circulate. The idea here is you can try it, but if you keep using it you must pay for it or be a pirate. The author intends for it to be illegal for you to use this program without paying it. I don't know whether this could be shown to be illegal. I would guess yes. #3 is like #2, but the author has the additional leverage that if you want the real thing you have to pay. So he has more control, because he gives you more incentive to pay. Some collections of Freely Redistributable software no longer include Type 2 and 3 Shareware, because they feel that these two kinds are "too commercial". >>I) WHAT? This is a call to the entire AMIGA PROGRAMMING SOCIETY, >>FRED FISH, and Rom Kernal Manual Authors. I wish to start a discussion >> (==> NOT A WAR <==) >>what 'PUBLIC DOMAIN' EXACTLY and LEGALLY means. I don't believe this has >>been done before; if it has, we should check the validity of the definition. >> >>II) WHO? All AMIGA programmers, especially those who have contributed to >>the 'PUBLIC DOMAIN'; FRED FISH, as he is the leading AMIGA PD'ist; The >>Author Team of the AMIGA RKM. Please remember that Fred Fish does not distribute only PD software, he distributes FREELY REDISTRIBUTABLE software, which includes SHAREWARE and software with other conditions, but whose ownership rests with the author. Do not think that just because you find something on a Fish disk that it is PD. The RKM disk stuff is FREELY REDISTRIBUTABLE, not PD. Commodore-Amiga still retains ownership of the stuff, and can (and does) apply conditions on its use and distribution. >>III) HOW? Either EMAIL me your IDEAS/SUGGESTIONS/DEMANDS/FLAMES/ETC... and >>I will EVERYDAY (except weekends/holidays- and the time tween 21-29 July) post >>a summary (complete except for double Ideas; you'll still get mentioned, don't >>worry), I will not comment unless absolute necessary; OR we can start a group, >>say COMP.SYS.AMIGA.PDDTEMP (PD Discussion Temporary); OR (bad idea, as >>already too crowed here) use comp.sys.amiga as our work group. >> >>IV) WHY? I have found that the definition of PD be something very fragile. >>Some believe it to be another word for 'HACKERS PARADISE', other think 'PIRATES >>FORTUNE' and still others don't even know what to think. Since the 'TETR*S' >>war, it has become increasingly clear that we of the AMIGA COMMUNITY must >>define PD, to protect ourselves and Commercialists (as opposed to PD'ists). >>If PD where defined (legally), then one would know what one could allow to >>become PD, and what one shouldn't bother programming/creating/etc... Pirated software is not PD, just because it came on a disk that looked just like the disk that some Freely Redistributable software came on, even if you got it from the same person, club, or company. Also remember that PD or Freely Redistributable does not mean IMMUNE TO OTHER LAWS. So if you write something that is PD but violates some law, it DOES NOT MATTER that it is PD. So if you write a 1-2-3 clone, Lotus can still sue you, even though you didn't make any money off it. Likewise for Tetris. The law will render its verdict INDEPENDENT of whether the product was sold, traded, given away. This should be just as clear as if you published some PD software that the courts ruled was obscene or libellous. You still may be found guilty. >>V) STARTER: Here are some general ideas, which should sporn everyone to >>participate: The 'COPYRIGHT', 'LEGAL' etc.. FILES or HEADERS of Files should >>regulate WHAT a user of PD may do with the data. Each PD software MUST have >>such a file, with (it is best so) the name of 'COPYRIGHT' or 'LEGAL'. Another >>word for Public Domain is (and has been since the CBM PET!) >>'FREELY DISTRIBUTABLE'. Should this stay a synonym, or should it become >>separate, or a sub-devision of PD as 'SHARE-WARE' and 'FREE-WARE' have become? >>A 'WORLD' rate should be settled on for the distribution of PD-DISKS, using >>the method Fred Fish uses in pricing. The rate should be in US$ or Swiss >>Francs, whichever is more practical. etc... Ideas wellcome!!! FREELY DISTRIBUTABLE is quite different from PUBLIC DOMAIN, as explained above. >>Hope this works, your truly, >>(I and my employer need not necessarilly agree with everything I can think up. >> Please send Flames in Asbestos Containers...) Peter -- Peter Cherna, Software Engineer, Commodore-Amiga, Inc. {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!peter peter@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com My opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of my employer. "This is a one line proof...if we start sufficiently far to the left." /****** END OF MESSAGE END OF MESSAGE END OF MESSAGE END OF MESSAGE ******/ ".tfel sht ot raf yltneiciffus trats ew fi...foorp enil eno a si sihT" -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | Martin S. Stoller, ([uunet!]cbmvax!){cbmehq!}cbmsub!cbmcel!stoller | | "We maverick maniacal Programmers must be machiavellistically marvelous" | | ...DEAMOND RING... | | "My RELIGION is 'C'; and my GOD is AMIGA..." .M.S.S. | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-