deh@ndmath.UUCP (David Hurtubise) (07/24/90)
I recently got NTSC-PAL off of a fish disk, but I have not had any sucess with it. As soon as I enter the PAL command my screen starts jumping around and I get a double image of everything. When I enter the NTSC command the display returns to normal. Is this because I don't have the right chips in my computer or is it my monitor? Is there any way to make it work? I have a 2500/30 which I just bought in March and I'm pretty sure it has the fatter agnus in it. I also have a flicker fixer and a Nec 3D multisync monitor. David E. Hurtubise Math Department University of Notre Dame deh@sanger.chem.nd.edu
drtiller@uokmax.uucp (Donald Richard Tillery Jr) (07/25/90)
I too have a flicker fixer hooked to a Mitsubishi Diamond Scan and the PAL program does not work with the Flicker-Fixer. It is synced for NTSC and the PAL mode confuses it. Anyway, to use PAL, you must use the "flicker" mode and bypass that several hundred dollar piece of hardware. Not worth it in my book. By the way, can you cover your whole screen with the video? I can't and I hate it! (I just got this hooked up today and I'll call Mitsubishi and Microway tomorrow, but in case they can't help me, let me know if your combo works). Thanx. _______ __________ _/____) ' __ /_/ / ' / / __ _ "N.I.N.J.A.J.I.S."-Me / \___/__/___/ |_ /__/__/__/_/_-_/__/_/ The Displaced Razorback. ___________________________________________/ Founder: IDGAFF Ltd. The Amiga Computer - "...a more fiendish disputant than the Great Hyperbolic Omni-Cognate Neutron Wrangler of Ciceronicus Twelve..." -D.Adams; Well, almost.
amhartma@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Andy Hartman - AmigaMan) (07/26/90)
In article <1990Jul25.040811.17050@uokmax.uucp> drtiller@uokmax.uucp (Donald Richard Tillery Jr) writes: >I too have a flicker fixer hooked to a Mitsubishi Diamond Scan and the PAL >program does not work with the Flicker-Fixer. It is synced for NTSC and the >PAL mode confuses it. Anyway, to use PAL, you must use the "flicker" mode >and bypass that several hundred dollar piece of hardware. Not worth it in >my book. I thought that PALBoot and programs like it just SIMULATED a PAL display. Obviously, an NTSC machine can't be turned into PAL without hardware changes. But don't these types of programs (PALBoot, etc.) just open an NTSC screen which is just an interlaced screen with more vertical rows? Seems to me that a FlickerFixer would make this display even better to see. Anyway, with PALBoot, I still lose the last few lines on the bottom of the screen sometimes. Looking for enlightenment (gently, please...) AMH * Andy Hartman | I'd deny half of this crap anyway!| "Somedays, you just * Indiana University |-----------------------------------| can't get rid of a * // Amiga Man | amhartma@silver.ucs.indiana.edu | bomb!" * \X/ At Large! | AMHARTMA@rose.ucs.indiana.edu | - Batman (original)
drxmann@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Dustin Christmann) (07/26/90)
In article <52072@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> amhartma@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Andy Hartman - AmigaMan) writes: > >I thought that PALBoot and programs like it just SIMULATED a PAL display. >Obviously, an NTSC machine can't be turned into PAL without hardware changes. >But don't these types of programs (PALBoot, etc.) just open an NTSC screen >which is just an interlaced screen with more vertical rows? Seems to me that >a FlickerFixer would make this display even better to see. Anyway, with >PALBoot, I still lose the last few lines on the bottom of the screen sometimes. Nope. BootPAL (and BootNTSC) in the NTSC-PAL distribution basically tell the computer it is a PAL computer and have the Agnus send out the appropriate sig- nals. Note that this only applies to the ECS Agnus, as it is the only one that can handle both types of signals. Really to make your NTSC 2000 a PAL 2000 (or vice versa) permanently, simply change the state of J102. If it is open, close it. If it is closed, open it. (Really simple, I know, but not everyone is an EE.) The reason you lose a few lines is simply because PAL Amiga display have 256 lines (512 interlaced,) which is more than your monitor can handle, I think. Thanx, Dustin Christmann Internet: drxmann@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Bitnet: drxmann@utxvm UUCP: ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!drxmann "He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He is an idiot." -Groucho Marx
hull@hao.hao.ucar.edu (Howard Hull) (07/26/90)
I tried NTSC-PAL with the equivalent of an Amiga 2500/20 and a MicroWay NTSC Flicker Fixer connected to a Mitsubishi Diamondscan. It behaved just as you described for the NEC Multisync and the NTSC Flicker Fixer on your Amiga 2500/30. So I got my other cable and took the video direct from the Amiga to the Diamondscan, and that worked ok. I had to change the monitor's size controls to where I could see the edges of the display, and then, even though it was in sync, I was missing a bunch of stuff at the bottom. So I kept increasing the -rows value fed to MoreRows and checking the result. I had to use Preferences to push the frame all the way to the top of the scan space, and even then I couldn't get anything like 512 lines - only 472, I think. It was cut off at the bottom just as though there was a cutoff gate after some fixed length. So I wonder what else one has to do once the Flicker Fixer is out of the way, though I know that one can throw throw the NTSC Flicker Fixer in the trash and send one's dealer or MicroWay another $575 dollars for a PAL Flicker Fixer - MicroWay probably likes it if one does that. Does anyone know if Microway has an exchange deal, an upgrade, or a mod, or if one can get a Flicker Fixer with a switch on it to select either NTSC or PAL? Howard Hull hull@ncar.ucar.edu
drtiller@uokmax.uucp (Donald Richard Tillery Jr) (07/27/90)
No, really, the Agnus in the NTSC and PAL machines is that same. The clock crystal is _slightly_ different (28.14 vs ~28.09Mhz) but this is not necessary for PAL generation on a multisync monitor since it can sync to a slightly off PAL signal and a PAL monitor (TV w/RFgen) couldn't. The only other difference is a jumper (for which I saw a switch hack on FidoNet) which determines default mode for the machine. The only problem I have seen (other than using it with the flicker fixer which is timed for NTSC) is with losing some of the bottom lines in lieu of the background color (the pointer also disappears there). I am not certain, but I think if you run morerows and give the workbench more lines to begin with, that might fix the lost lines (then again the jumper could hardware generate a 60 vice 50 Hz vert sync - I have the FF so I probably won't investigate further). _______ __________ _/____) ' __ /_/ / ' / / __ _ "N.I.N.J.A.J.I.S."-Me / \___/__/___/ |_ /__/__/__/_/_-_/__/_/ The Displaced Razorback. ___________________________________________/ Founder: IDGAFF Ltd. The Amiga Computer - "...a more fiendish disputant than the Great Hyperbolic Omni-Cognate Neutron Wrangler of Ciceronicus Twelve..." -D.Adams; Well, almost.
bscott@nyx.UUCP (Ben Scott) (07/31/90)
[since no one else has responded yet:] In article <52072@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> amhartma@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Andy Hartman - AmigaMan) writes: >I thought that PALBoot and programs like it just SIMULATED a PAL display. >Obviously, an NTSC machine can't be turned into PAL without hardware changes. >But don't these types of programs (PALBoot, etc.) just open an NTSC screen >which is just an interlaced screen with more vertical rows? Seems to me that >a FlickerFixer would make this display even better to see. Anyway, with >PALBoot, I still lose the last few lines on the bottom of the screen sometimes. No - with the Super Agnus in PAL mode, even with an NTSC machine, the graphics are PAL. The horizontal lines are spaced closer together, and it forces a 1084 to follow the new sync so you get the additional lines in virtually the same physical space on the screen. The mouse pointer seems "squished" in the vertical direction. The vertical blanking interval and even the power supply frequency as reported by Kramden SI is 50 hz. The clock runs somewhat faster. European demos run at 5/6th the speed they used to run when played in NTSC. Obviously, not EVERYTHING is changed, but then not everything is really that different. Every important difference for most applications is within the Agnus chip, or controlled by it. Workbench follows suit opening a PAL screen if you boot in PAL rather than just changing during runtime. This also brings other programs like CED, Diskmaster, and JRComm along so you really can use the 25% extra screen real estate (with virtually no additional system overhead). I'm sure other programs also detect PAL, those are just the ones which do that I use mostly. > | - Batman (original) (yeah! Adam West... the REAL Batman!) . <<<<Infinite K>>>> -- .---------------------------------------------------------------------------. |Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver| |Amiga UUCP node domain: bscott@vila.denver.co.us Else: bscott@nyx.cs.du.edu| |FIDO point address 1:104/421.2, or call the Arvada 68K BBS at (303)424-9831| |"Don't embarrass us..." "Have I ever?" - Buckaroo Banzai | *AMIGA POWER* | `---------------------------------------------------------------------------'
jim@syteke.be (Jim Sanchez) (07/31/90)
Since I bought a PAL 2000 in Germany and plan on using it when I move
back to the US, I wanted to know what was needed to use a
Flicker-Fixer both ways. I emailed to a Peter <something> the actual
designer of the F-F and he told me that the PAL version is CAPABLE of
being used in NTSC mode if you change the pals(no pun intended).
However, the reverse is not true and the pals are not available as of
the date I asked the question. Apparently the native PAL and NTSC
hardware are different. After using a PAL machine for a while I
decided that I liked PAL well enough that switching was not of
interest. I also have not purchase the F-F yet either. However, I do
believe that Peter told me that MicroWay would support a user moving
from PAL to NTSC.
--
Jim Sanchez | jim@syteke.be (PREFERRED)
Hughes LAN Systems | OR uunet!mcsun!ub4b!syteke!jim
Brussels Belgium | OR {sun,hplabs}!sytek!syteke!jim
--
Jim Sanchez | jim@syteke.be (PREFERRED)
Hughes LAN Systems | OR uunet!mcsun!ub4b!syteke!jim
Brussels Belgium | OR {sun,hplabs}!sytek!syteke!jimjprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) (08/02/90)
bscott@nyx.UUCP (Ben Scott) writes: >Workbench follows suit opening a PAL screen if you boot in PAL rather than >just changing during runtime. This also brings other programs like CED, >Diskmaster, and JRComm along so you really can use the 25% extra screen >real estate (with virtually no additional system overhead). I'm sure other >programs also detect PAL, those are just the ones which do that I use mostly. Glad you brought this up. I've had a few people harp on me for JR-Comm not working properly with PAL on an NTSC system. Until yesterday I was not aware of the fact that there are some mode switching programs that change modes without rebooting the system. Since JR-Comm depends on the size of the Workbench screen for determining maximum width and height as well as interlace, just switching to PAL mode without booting causes the program to not open correctly. Just looking at the PAL flag in the system isn't sufficient either since the Workbench screen can be morerowed to a non-standard size. From what I was told, simply using the size of the Workbench screen was fine for KS/WB 1.3. I'm aware that this all changes for 2.0. But, the question here is if just changing modes is "right". On the A3000 that I just got (had to throw that in ;-), when I change to PAL mode the system tells me to close all tasks that are currently running or else it will not change over to a PAL screen. From this I draw the conclusion that the only "right" way to change to a PAL screen (and also in the opposite direction), the system must be rebooted in order for the Workbench screen to open correctly. Am I correct on this, or am I all wet? -jack-