S36666WB@ETSUACAD.BITNET (Brian Wright) (08/01/90)
Hello friends,
I am not very happy at all. Let me explain. I *had* an Amiga 3000
briefly. I bought the 3000 and 6 days later it went to the shop. It's been
there since. It's still there. There are *NO* parts available for it, so
I was told. So they ordered a motherboard which is *NOW* on backorder. Who
knows how long that will take. I am very much upset by this situation. I'll
say now that *IF* Commodore doesn't improve their quality control the 3000
is going to *BOMB* miserably. I mean were talking yet another LISA. This
computer *IS* supposed to be a WORKSTATION. If you can't even pull it out
of the box in working order what are universities and businesses going to
think of this. I mean if they buy a shipment and 1 out of every 3 fail what
are the chances they are going to purchase them again? Come on Commodore
let's get that quality control improved before you KILL the machine before it
even starts.
Now to the monitor. The monitor is even another story. Yes, I bought
the bundle package. The 1950 monitor came in that bundle. It was even
defective. Well, there is one thing that everyone should know before buying
the 1950. The 1950's tube is rather loose inside the case. It moves in ship-
ment. So don't be surprised when you have a VERY tilted screen when you first
turn it on. The only way to fix it is to take it to the shop. That wasn't
my problem, however. It was slightly tilted but no big deal. The problem
I had with it is that all four corners of the screen were Blurry and darker
than the center (which was nice and sharp). The service center can't fix that
problem either. There is *NO* way to focus the tube. Needless to say, I am
very unhappy, discouraged, dismayed and purturbed by all of this. Here's my
plea to Commodore: PLEASE ALLOW ME TO SEND MY EQUIPMENT BACK FOR REPLACEMENT
AND SEND ME SOMETHING THAT WORKS AND HAS BEEN TESTED. If I can't have that
then I want my money back. $2600 is a lot to spend on NOTHING. That's what
I have, NOTHING.
Update: I called Commodore and (here's the kicker) there *ARE* no 3000s
available. HUH? Run that by me again? NO 3000s? Really Commodore you MUST
have some around there. Come on. All I want is to have my machine fixed.
What'd you do only make a small run? I mean. This is sad. I was also told
that it might be up to a month before there ARE more 3000s. A MONTH? I had my
machine for SIX days and now I have to wait upto a month for it to be fixed.
I should have just waited to purchase it. Maybe I shouldn't have purchased it.
Maybe this will be my LAST Commodore purchase. Perhaps. If this situation
can't be resolved and but quick it probably WILL be. ....end of flame.....
------------------------------------------------------------------------
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\ To steal from one is plagiarism. To steal from many is research. /
/ ---Unknown--- \
\_________________________________ / / /
/ | / / \
\ ---Brian Wright |\ \/ / Only Amiga makes it possible! /
/ ---s36666wb@etsuacad.etsu.edu | \/\/ But Commodore doesn't. \
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/garvin@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Michael A. Garvin) (08/01/90)
In article <9008011500.AA25318@jade.berkeley.edu> S36666WB@ETSUACAD.BITNET (Brian Wright) writes: > > (saga of a broken A3000 and 1950 deleted) > First, take a Valium. You need it. Second, since when is the 3000 a workstation (as you state in your article)? Commodore has not said the 3000 is a workstation, and it isn't by any means. They're not out to compete with Sun or DEC. If you needed a workstation you should have looked at them. As for your 3000 woes, don't call this your last Commodore purchase because of one (1) machine. If everyone who has gotten a bad Sun workstation threw a tantrum quit buying their product Sun wouldn't be around (I know, we got 2 bad 3/60's out of 5). Don't dump on the Amiga for 1 bad machine. As for parts, etc., six months ago you wouldn't have gotten an answer out of Commodore about getting the thing fixed (yes, I know this is little solace). Commodore is not a large company like I*M, Apple, etc., who keeps a huge parts supply all over the country. It may take a little time and effort, but your machine will get fixed. Now, on the other side, let me tell you about another vendor. A story about a company that would not sell us repair parts since we had switched to another company's machine. Luckily we were able to get a part from a different source, but even so it took 2 months plus a MAJOR headache to get a working machine again. In short, chill out. It may be a pain but yelling won't help any. BTW, yours is the first defective 3000 I've heard of. Anyone else had problems? --- Michael Garvin garvin@ccvr1.cc.ncsu.edu NCSU Computing Center - Systems
jerbil@chamber.caltech.edu (Joseph R. Beckenbach) (08/01/90)
S36666WB@ETSUACAD.BITNET (Brian Wright) writes about problems with his 3000. He does not mention how he got this, but from his article I can only gather he went directly through Commodore (educational plan), and not a dealer. Frankly, what Brian describes sounds to me like "damage in shipment" for the monitor, which (I think) can be sent back under state law for replacement or refund. [This depends on the state, of course.] As for the main unit, I can only offer my experience as a counterpoint: I accepted shipment of my 3000 a week and a half ago. It has had no problems whatsoever, though I've been busy at work and haven't done heavy testing yet. There was some slight backlog at the time I ordered, but it came through quickly (roughly one week). As arranged at time of order, my dealer added a 100MB hard drive to the stock machine; he tested it and did initial installation for me. That (IMHO) is one reason of many for the existance of dealers. [I don't want to have to juggle concurrently the installation procedures for four different computer systems. 1/2 :-] If I understand correctly, the dealers are in no way involved in any equipment purchased under the Educational Discount Program. (This doesn't ring true; why not allow the regional representative of Commodor [the dealer] to handle work in their region? I must have misinterpreted something somewhere along the line.) It sounds like Brian may have had an easier time of it had he worked with a dealer. Anyway.... Joe Beckenbach jerbil@cs.caltech.edu
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (08/02/90)
In article <1990Aug1.155127.11975@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> garvin@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Michael A. Garvin) writes: >In article <9008011500.AA25318@jade.berkeley.edu> S36666WB@ETSUACAD.BITNET (Brian Wright) writes: >> >> (saga of a broken A3000 and 1950 deleted) >> > > First, take a Valium. You need it. Second, since when is the 3000 ... >Commodore is not a large company like I*M, Apple, etc., who >keeps a huge parts supply all over the country. It may take a little time >and effort, but your machine will get fixed. I take issue only with this part of your message. Commodore is almost a one-billion dollar a year company. If it were an American company it would be ranked about 350th in the Forbes top 500 companies. Commodore can't use small size as an excuse. Of course IBM and Apple are even bigger, but I believe Commodore and Sun are about the same in annual volume (in dollars). The real reason that Michael is having problems is because he is a pioneer buying a new machine as soon as it came out. At this point Commodore is desperately trying to fill all the orders they've had AROUND THE WORLD! They can't even begin to make repair parts until supply starts to hit demand. >--- > >Michael Garvin >garvin@ccvr1.cc.ncsu.edu >NCSU Computing Center - Systems -- Ethan Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu "If Commodore had to market sushi they'd call it `raw cold fish'" -- The Bandito, inevitably stolen from someone else
rg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rick Francis Golembiewski) (08/02/90)
I for one am very satisfied with the condition that my 3000 arrived in, also here at CMU there are several SUN workstaions, unfortunately there have been several problems with the suns, and if we can get sun to send replacement CPU boards in 6 months then we are lucky! Which is one reason that cmu is using decstations over SPARC stations. So CA is not the only company with slow service... Also it sounds as if your shipment was given to a gorilla as a play thing, I've heard some horror stories about UPS from a friend that worked there, so it might not even be CA fault that your 3000 isn't working. // Rick Golembiewski rg20+@andrew.cmu.edu \\ \\ #include stddisclaimer.h // \\ "I never respected a man who could spell" // \\ -M. Twain //
rick@ameristar (Rick Spanbauer) (08/02/90)
In article <EahlEvC00WAt4Ly2JN@andrew.cmu.edu> rg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rick Francis Golembiewski) writes: > >there have been several problems with the suns, and if we can get sun >to send replacement CPU boards in 6 months then we are lucky! Which Suggestion: get yourself new service people or a better grade of service. In places I do work at, it is always the case that if you buy 30 day turn around service from Sun, the repair item is returned within 30 days, period. If you have 7 day service, then they get it back within 7 days, period. If Sun says it is coming Fedex tommorrow, then it comes tommorrow. In other words, Sun service does a good, albeit somewhat expensive, job. Your six month figure for a repair is a significant fraction of the useful lifetime of a workstation, friend! Anyways, perhaps the delays you are seeing are at CMU or part of some political agenda there ;-) ;-) >// Rick Golembiewski rg20+@andrew.cmu.edu \\ Rick Spanbauer Ameristar
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (08/02/90)
In <3032.26b82e31@cc.curtin.edu.au>, North_TJ@cc.curtin.edu.au (Tim North) writes: >In article <9008011500.AA25318@jade.berkeley.edu>, S36666WB@ETSUACAD.BITNET (Brian Wright) writes: >> Hello friends, >> >> I am not very happy at all. Let me explain. I *had* an Amiga 3000 >> briefly. I bought the 3000 and 6 days later it went to the shop. It's been >> there since. It's still there. There are *NO* parts available for it, so >> I was told. So they ordered a motherboard which is *NOW* on backorder. Who >> knows how long that will take. I am very much upset by this situation. I'll > >[sad story deleted] > >> What'd you do only make a small run? I mean. This is sad. I was also told >> that it might be up to a month before there ARE more 3000s. A MONTH? I had >> machine for SIX days and now I have to wait upto a month for it to be fixed. >> I should have just waited to purchase it. Maybe I shouldn't have purchased > >And the moral of this story boys and girls is that C= is playing the age old >game of beta-testing their hardware by releasing a small amount of stock into >the market place and then waiting to see what breaks. > >Nice for them - cheap R&D. I mean why test the thing when they know that there's >a whole mass of people who can be used as guinea pigs. :-( Oh bull! This was the first I have heard of initial problems with a 3000. Be cynical all you want, but if it doesn't match the facts, a lot of folks are going to ignore it. -larry -- Sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
North_TJ@cc.curtin.edu.au (Tim North) (08/02/90)
In article <9008011500.AA25318@jade.berkeley.edu>, S36666WB@ETSUACAD.BITNET (Brian Wright) writes: > Hello friends, > > I am not very happy at all. Let me explain. I *had* an Amiga 3000 > briefly. I bought the 3000 and 6 days later it went to the shop. It's been > there since. It's still there. There are *NO* parts available for it, so > I was told. So they ordered a motherboard which is *NOW* on backorder. Who > knows how long that will take. I am very much upset by this situation. I'll [sad story deleted] > What'd you do only make a small run? I mean. This is sad. I was also told > that it might be up to a month before there ARE more 3000s. A MONTH? I had > machine for SIX days and now I have to wait upto a month for it to be fixed. > I should have just waited to purchase it. Maybe I shouldn't have purchased And the moral of this story boys and girls is that C= is playing the age old game of beta-testing their hardware by releasing a small amount of stock into the market place and then waiting to see what breaks. Nice for them - cheap R&D. I mean why test the thing when they know that there's a whole mass of people who can be used as guinea pigs. :-( Tim North //---\\ _____---=======---_____ ====____\ /.. ..\ /____==== // ---\__O__/--- \\ \_\ /_/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- SNAIL : Dept. Computer Engineering, Curtin University of Technology. Perth, Western Australia. Internet: North_TJ@cc.curtin.edu.au ACSnet: North_TJ@cc.cut.oz.au Bitnet: North_TJ%cc.curtin.edu.au@cunyvm.bitnet UUCP : uunet!munnari.oz!cc.curtin.edu.au!North_TJ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Francis Heffernan) (08/02/90)
RE getting dead machines from Commodore I sympathize with the original poster; my 2000 was dead on arrival and it took about a month to get a new one out of Commodore. The dealer we bought it from wasn't helpful- we had to go past them and deal directly with Commodore (making at least one person's life in Customer Support a living hell ;-) ). That dealer is now out of buisness- no tears from me. (The rep we were dealing with said that the Marketing people were very distressed to hear of a dealer who wouldn't do an exchange for a customer...) In any case, despite some initial problems caused by the fact that we had to go directly to Commodore for something our dealer should have done, I'm pretty sure that Commodore did everything it could, as soon as it could do it, to get me my machine. You've a right to be upset, but don't go out of control- they'll take care of you. Dennis Francis Heffernan | "Remember the words of your teacher, dfrancis@tronsbox | your master: Evil moves fast, but ...uunet!tronsbox!dfrancis | Good moves faster!" Original text (c) 1990 | --Partners in Kryme, T-U-R-T-L-E Power!
evtracy@sdrc.UUCP (Tracy Schuhwerk) (08/02/90)
From article <1990Aug1.155127.11975@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu>, by garvin@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Michael A. Garvin): > In short, chill out. It may be a pain but yelling won't help any. > BTW, yours is the first defective 3000 I've heard of. Anyone else had > problems? Yes, about a month and a half ago when I picked up my A3000, I had a defective power switch. The actual problem was very simple to correct (the power button on the front of the machine came unseated from the switch on the power supply during shipping) and my dealer swapped machines for me so I was not down for more than a day! I also received a call from Commodore expressing concerns about the machine (I think I had the frist reported defective release A3000 :-)). All in all the service I got was the best I have ever had with ANY of the conputers I own or have owned! My 3000 and 1950 have been running flawlessly ever since and I have been putting a lot of mileage on them both! I agree... chill out! The 3000 is a terrific machine! I wouldn't put it up in the workstation arena (compared to an SGI or R/S6000 it would really pale) but for a home computer it is tops in my book! [ Just another long time user and satisfied customer of CA ] -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _______________ / / / | uunet!sdrc!evtracy / (___ _ /_ /_ _ __ /_/ | evtracy@SDRC.UU.NET / . _____)__(__/ /__/_/_/ /__/_/_/__(/__/ (__/ \ +--------------------- Structural Dynamics Research Corporation (SDRC) - Milford, Ohio =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
walker@unx.sas.com (Doug Walker) (08/03/90)
In article <1990Aug1.155127.11975@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> garvin@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Michael A. Garvin) writes: >BTW, yours is the first defective 3000 I've heard of. Anyone else had >problems? The Software Distillery got 12 VERY early A3000's, back in the beginning of May, and we have had NO problems with any of them. Can't speak for the monitor. SAS Institute has an A3000 older than those, and we have had no problems with that, either. ***** NOTE NEW BBS NUMBER (AGAIN): =*|_o_o|\\=====Doug Walker, Software Distiller====== BBS: (919)460-7430= *|. o.| || | o |// For all you do, this bug's for you! ====== usenet: ...mcnc!rti!sas!walker plink: dwalker bix: djwalker
rick@rsami.spoami.com (Rick Schaeffer) (08/04/90)
Well, I, too, thought that I had gotten a bum deal with the A3000. But after living with it for a month I'm quite happy. First, to the problem that the author mentioned with installing a second internal hard disk. I had the same problem with spooky random crashes...keyboard lockups... the whole works. I found two problems: number one was that I didn't read the addendum sheet that came with the A3000 ... which said to be sure and set the "Supports Reselection" flag to "NO" on any added hard disks when using HDToolBox to prep the drive. Once I did that (it took several tries to get it right due to the flakey behaviour of the system) then all my REALLY weird problems disappeared. Now I still have a minor problem with the setup and that is that my EXTERNAL hard drive MUST be powered up at the same EXACT time as the A3000. If it is up and ready BEFORE I power up the A3000 then everything appears to boot up just fine but the keyboard doesn't work at all...not even allowing a warm boot. If I leave the power OFF on the external drive at the time I power up the A3000 then the A3000 doesn't recognize ANY of the hard drives and either hangs or gives me the option of booting from floppy only. As I said, this is a minor problem for me since I have a switch box which powers up the whole system at the same time. I have heard that the keyboard problem and also the problem with not being able to boot unless the external drive is powered up is due to a problem with the termination lines to the external SCSI connector. It as something to do with a diode being installed backward so that termination power is not supplied properly. I can believe this because if I remove the termination resistor packs from the external drive then the system appears to boot just fine whether or not the external drive is powered up. Since access to the external drive when it isn't terminated is somewhat intermittant, I put the termination resistors back in. I would be very interested in hearing from CATS about this diode...so far my dealer has not received any repair notes. Problem two is all my fault! I routinely use an editor that I ported over from MSDOS and a version of the Dillon shell that I have hacked up. This has been true since AmigaDos 1.0 and my old A1000!! Welll...it seems that AmigaDos 2.0 is a bit more picky about memory allocations than previous versions of AmigaDos...because I was having ALL kinds of random crashes and I couldn't get the CShell to work at all. I hacked around on the CShell trying to get it to work and discovered that it was allocating ONE byte too few for it's directory list. This was "amusing" since I have been using this version of the Shell for several years!!! It doesn't fail under DOS 1.3! After fixing that problem I started trying to figure out why I was still having occasional random crashes (never the same program twice) and finally gave up and decided that there must be some bugs in DOS 2.0. In the mean time, I added an AREXX port to the editor that I use and was having a DEVIL of a time with it. Naturally, since the editor seemed to be working fine other than with the AREXX port, that's where I concentrated my efforts. Finally, I discovered that the editor was allocating one byte too few for it's main editing buffer!!!!! That bug has been in there forever, too! Well I fixed that and now my AREXX port works fine. And guess what? ... All those random crashes have gone away!!!!! Apparently, the editor was trashing AmigaDos's memory arena and, since the editor doesn't do any other memory allocations, causing the potential for a program being run later to crash. For instance, when trying to use the AREXX port that I added to the editor, it was ALWAYS AREXX that crashed...never the editor itself! Sorry for being so long winded with this posting. I thought it would be worth mentioning the problems I had because, as I discovered, there ARE solutions. Number one is RTFM! And check that you have set the "Supports Reselection" switch to off for any added drives (both internal and external). If you don't you might have some WEIRD problems. Number two is CHECK YOUR MEMORY ALLOCATIONS. I have read of several folks having strange problems running programs under 2.0 that ran fine under 1.3. It seems that 1.3 AllocMem maybe gave you an even multiple of 4 bytes thus giving you a little slop but 2.0 gives you EXACTLY what you ask for! -- Rick Schaeffer UUCP: uunet!isc-br.isc-br.com!ricks ISC-Bunker Ramo ricks@isc-br.isc-br.com Box TAF-C8 Phone: (509)927-5114 Spokane, WA 99220
davids@cup.portal.com (David Kenneth Schreiber) (08/05/90)
Well, I got my A3000 Friday, and I too have been having troubles. After getting my hard drive hooked up (no easy task, see below), I have been plagued by crashes: with both hard drives installed and the cover on, after about 10-20 minutes the display (1950 Display-Enhanced) breaks up, the power light flashes, and the machine resets. This happens 2-3 times in a row, then the machine locks up for good (not even CTRL-A-A will reset it). With the cover off, these crashes are slightly less frequent, and with the 2nd hard drive removed (the Commodore supplied one is still installed), the crashes become even less frequent. I'm thinking that either a chip is marginal, causing crashes once things get warmed up (and with 2 hard drives, things get warm FAST), or the power supply is marginal (more likely, IMHO). Any suggestions from anyone out there on what could be the problem? I'll probably go back to the dealer & get the machine replaced, but I won't be able to make it until Thursday. Re. the hard drive installation: The manual implies that installing a second internal hard drive is fairly routine, but when I was installing mine, I found that there was no power connector for it! It uses the standard sized power connector, but the only one available was a small one (for a second floppy). I do hope that a larger power plug will be available in later versions of the 3000 (I'm currently using a Y-splitter to split the power from the one standard-size plug to the two hard drives). If not a connector, at least a note in the manual stating that a Y-splitter is necessary. Now, don't get me wrong. What I have seen of the machine I have been very impressed with. 2.0 is GREAT (who do I call for the 2.0 Native Developer's Update, BTW?), as is the flicker-free display. Once these problems in my 3000 are worked out, I know I'm going to enjoy this machine tremendously (just the 2-3 mandelbrots I've generated already have me drooling; 640x400x16 colors never looked so good...). -Dave Schreiber at davids@cup.portal.com
sysop@tlvx.UUCP (SysOp) (08/06/90)
In article <1990Aug1.155127.11975@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu>, garvin@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Michael A. Garvin) writes: > In article <9008011500.AA25318@jade.berkeley.edu> S36666WB@ETSUACAD.BITNET (Brian Wright) writes: > > > > (saga of a broken A3000 and 1950 deleted) > > Every so often, someone posts to rec.autos about how bad a particular brand of car is because they bought a lemon. In reality, every car brand, no matter how respected, will occasionally produce a lemon. Same here; statistically, you can't say that everything is bad just from one sample. That aside, I am sure Commodore could use some improvement in quality control. (It couldn't hurt, for sure!) > > First, take a Valium. You need it. Second, since when is the 3000 > a workstation (as you state in your article)? Commodore has not said the > 3000 is a workstation, and it isn't by any means. They're not out to > compete with Sun or DEC. If you needed a workstation you should have looked > at them. As for your 3000 woes, don't call this your last Commodore > purchase because of one (1) machine. If everyone who has gotten a bad Sun > workstation threw a tantrum quit buying their product Sun wouldn't be around > (I know, we got 2 bad 3/60's out of 5). Don't dump on the Amiga for 1 bad > machine. As for parts, etc., six months ago you wouldn't have gotten an > answer out of Commodore about getting the thing fixed (yes, I know this is > little solace). Commodore is not a large company like I*M, Apple, etc., who > keeps a huge parts supply all over the country. It may take a little time > and effort, but your machine will get fixed. At a past job, I once had to install hard drives. We formatted and tested them as we installed them, and apparently 3 or so out of 100 was considered a normal failure rate for those drives. This doesn't excuse things, but I'm just attempting to agree that the industry at large has quality control problems to deal with. As for getting parts from Commodore, it can be a pain. Let me mention my 1080 monitor (mentioned before in c.s.a.h). The last I heard from Commodore is that they didn't have the part I needed (a coil), and so I've been attempting to get the part from Toshiba distributors. I have wound up nowhere, with distributors and Toshiba telling me that they can't get the part. The monitor was made in Japan, but it seems pretty brutal to sell a piece of equipment, and then not have a way to get parts for it just 4 years after the purchase. :-( Now my monitor has a screen which is "stretched out," not allowing you to see the first and last columns. I guess someone could use it for watching tv or something, but it's worthless to me even so. (Maybe someone out there would know how I could add another component to make the thing work....) I hope this doesn't sound like ranting; I'm just saying that I really understand waiting MONTHS to get something fixed, and spending $100 for nothing, and still have come no farther. (I think it's still possible to make some more calls, and start asking for managers, but I'm tired of the run-around....) At least with the 3000 and 1950, Brian, you know they will get fixed. (You know, these sorts of things can affect future purchases. I may get a 3000, but I might not get the 1950.) > Now, on the other side, let me tell you about another vendor. A story > about a company that would not sell us repair parts since we had switched to .... > --- > > Michael Garvin > garvin@ccvr1.cc.ncsu.edu > NCSU Computing Center - Systems On a barely related note, someone asked me to post here about a problem with a mail order company. He ordered a M.A.S.T. Twin drive from Comp-u-save, and while they told him it would take a few days to ship, it took a month. When he received it, it was damaged, so he got the RMA number, and sent it back. Something like 2 months later, he gets it back, and it still has the original damage. I remember that there was some discussion here a while back on things that people in this situation could do. E-mail any advice or suggestions to Richard Tobin using the below path: ..uunet!uflorida!unf7!tlvx!lenscap (He says he's so fed up he's going to try for a refund.) -- Gary Wolfe, SYSOP of the Temporal Vortex BBS ..uflorida!unf7!tlvx!sysop, ..unf7!tlvx!sysop@bikini.cis.ufl.edu
davids@cup.portal.com (David Kenneth Schreiber) (08/06/90)
Rick Schaeffer writes:
---
Well, I, too, thought that I had gotten a bum deal with the A3000. But
after living with it for a month I'm quite happy. First, to the problem
that the author mentioned with installing a second internal hard disk.
I had the same problem with spooky random crashes...keyboard lockups...
the whole works. I found two problems: number one was that I didn't
read the addendum sheet that came with the A3000 ... which said to be
sure and set the "Supports Reselection" flag to "NO" on any added hard
disks when using HDToolBox to prep the drive. Once I did that (it took
several tries to get it right due to the flakey behaviour of the system)
then all my REALLY weird problems disappeared. Now I still have a minor
problem with the setup and that is that my EXTERNAL hard drive MUST be
powered up at the same EXACT time as the A3000. If it is up and ready
BEFORE I power up the A3000 then everything appears to boot up just fine
but the keyboard doesn't work at all...not even allowing a warm boot.
If I leave the power OFF on the external drive at the time I power up
the A3000 then the A3000 doesn't recognize ANY of the hard drives and
either hangs or gives me the option of booting from floppy only. As I
said, this is a minor problem for me since I have a switch box which
powers up the whole system at the same time.
---
Well, I've tried removing the second internal hard drive altogether
(so now I have just the Commodore supplied HD & FD in there), and it
still happens. In fact, over the past day, it has gotten worse: now
even with the cover off and the other drive removed, I still can't go
beyond 15-20 minutes before the display breaks up and the machine
begins resetting over and over. Anyone have any other suggestions, or
do I exchange the machine?
-Daversbx@cbmvax.commodore.com (Raymond S. Brand) (08/06/90)
In article <rick.2010@rsami.spoami.com>, rick@rsami.spoami.com (Rick Schaeffer) writes: > [lots of useful info about Rick's problems and the solutions deleted for brevity] > Sorry for being so long winded with this posting. I thought it would be > worth mentioning the problems I had because, as I discovered, there ARE > solutions. Number one is RTFM! And check that you have set the > "Supports Reselection" switch to off for any added drives (both internal > and external). If you don't you might have some WEIRD problems. > > Number two is CHECK YOUR MEMORY ALLOCATIONS. I have read of several > folks having strange problems running programs under 2.0 that ran fine > under 1.3. It seems that 1.3 AllocMem maybe gave you an even multiple > of 4 bytes thus giving you a little slop but 2.0 gives you EXACTLY what > you ask for! Actually, 1.3 and 2.0 give you allocations that are a multiple of 8, the real difference is that the 3000 has memory with non-zero msb addresses. Usually when a program used one extra byte at the end, it put a zero there; if that byte was always supposed to be zero you win, otherwise.... > -- > Rick Schaeffer UUCP: uunet!isc-br.isc-br.com!ricks rsbx ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Raymond S. Brand rsbx@cbmvax.commodore.com Commodore-Amiga Engineering ...!uunet!cbmvax!rsbx 1200 Wilson Drive (215)-431-9100 West Chester PA 19380 "Looking" ------------------------------------------------------------------------
MIKER@S62.Prime.COM (08/06/90)
I find the responses to this posting very surprising ....even alarming to a degree. Just because all you guys love your Amiga, and I for one am very glad you do, it is no reason to dump on a guy that paid for something and did not get it. Over reacting, yes maybe Brian is a bit. However I'd be damn mad if I spent a lot of money, not to mention the huge investment in time figuring out what to buy, only to receive a system in the condition he apparently received it in. *Regardless if it is one out of a 1,000, C= should have been a bit more understanding... I don't know maybe they were and we did not see (hear) that part of the story. Personally, I'd want to hear: "We'll send you a refund if you can't wait for the repair." And that is another problem here, Repair! I don't want a "repaired" system when I paid for a "New" system. I must say that I don't believe the "cheap R&D" routine someone posted. I work in this industury too. "Time to market" forces deviation from normal "full testing" sometimes but I just don't believe that C= would send out a machine like the 3000 like that. First of all it would end up being a much higher rate of failure than this one situation. flame off....Brian, did you receive an refund offer on your purchase? And, was it an educational deal? Iam not sure if the Ed. deal really makes, or should make, a difference. I don't think it should. Brian, since you posted this....could you update the net when you get a solution or concerned calls from C=? Maybe the rest of you guys don't want to hear it but I am so close to purchasing 3000 that I really want to know a little something about the company I am buying from. just don't want to repeat my ibm experiences......looking for a better way! miker@s62.prime.com
diamond@cbmvax.commodore.com (Howard Diamond - Ed Marketing) (08/06/90)
In article <jerbil.649526256@chamber> jerbil@chamber.caltech.edu (Joseph R. Beckenbach) writes: >S36666WB@ETSUACAD.BITNET (Brian Wright) writes about problems with his 3000. >He does not mention how he got this, but from his article I can only gather >he went directly through Commodore (educational plan), and not a dealer. >Frankly, what Brian describes sounds to me like "damage in shipment" for the >monitor, which (I think) can be sent back under state law for replacement >or refund. [This depends on the state, of course.] As for the main unit, >I can only offer my experience as a counterpoint: > > I accepted shipment of my 3000 a week and a half ago. It has had no >problems whatsoever, though I've been busy at work and haven't done heavy >testing yet. There was some slight backlog at the time I ordered, but it >came through quickly (roughly one week). As arranged at time of order, my >dealer added a 100MB hard drive to the stock machine; he tested it and did >initial installation for me. That (IMHO) is one reason of many for the >existance of dealers. [I don't want to have to juggle concurrently the >installation procedures for four different computer systems. 1/2 :-] > > If I understand correctly, the dealers are in no way involved in >any equipment purchased under the Educational Discount Program. (This doesn't >ring true; why not allow the regional representative of Commodor [the dealer] >to handle work in their region? I must have misinterpreted something somewhere >along the line.) It sounds like Brian may have had an easier time of it >had he worked with a dealer. > > > Anyway.... > > Joe Beckenbach > jerbil@cs.caltech.edu No, you don't understand correctly. A dealer is paid a fee by Commodore to support the Education order.....and the level of support should be no different than is the case with a non-educational order....If it is, let us know.
navas@sim.uucp (David C. Navas) (08/06/90)
In article <32472@cup.portal.com> davids@cup.portal.com (David Kenneth Schreiber) writes: >now >even with the cover off and the other drive removed, I still can't go >beyond 15-20 minutes before the display breaks up and the machine >begins resetting over and over. Anyone have any other suggestions, or >do I exchange the machine? Exchange the machine. Our local store got an A3000 (pre-release) with the exact same problem. I forget what exactly they said the problem turned out to be, but they exchanged their system nevertheless. Let's hope your still under warrantee :) >-Dave -David David Navas navas@sim.berkeley.edu "Excuse my ignorance, but I've been run over by my train of thought." -me
oliver@lincoln.cs.unc.edu (Bill Oliver) (08/07/90)
In article <26b7be41-2677.6comp.sys.amiga-1@tronsbox.xei.com> dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Francis Heffernan) writes: > > RE getting dead machines from Commodore > > I sympathize with the original poster; my 2000 was dead on arrival and >it took about a month to get a new one out of Commodore. The dealer we >bought it from wasn't helpful- we had to go past them and deal directly >with Commodore (making at least one person's life in Customer Support a living >hell ;-) ). > I'm a little surprised. I bought a 2500/30 through the educational discount just before the 3000 was announced (sigh!), and the thing blew it's power supply two weeks after I got it. I called the dealer I went through (Servatronics Technologies in Burlington, NC), and they said no problem -- it took them a little less than a week to get the parts and fix the machine. All in all, I was happy both with the machine and the service. I guess it all depends on who your local dealer is. Bill Oliver
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (08/08/90)
In-Reply-To: message from MIKER@S62.Prime.COM This problem isn't specific to Commodore...there were(are) a few problems with the ][fxs that are leaving Apple, and IBM had problems with their PS/2s. It's a new machine, and you've got to expect this kind of thing...how many of you out there bought some of the original A1000s (though this had more problems in software), or how about one of the first A500s? Sean //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc | ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil | " Fanatics have their INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com | dreams, wherewith they | weave a paradise for RealWorld: Sean Cunningham | a sect. " Voice: (512) 994-1602 PLINK: ce3k* | -Keats | Call C.B.A.U.G. BBS (512) 883-8351 w/SkyPix | B^) VISION GRAPHICS B^) \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
peck@ral.rpi.edu (Joseph Peck) (08/09/90)
In article <3860@crash.cts.com> seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) writes: >In-Reply-To: message from MIKER@S62.Prime.COM > > >This problem isn't specific to Commodore...there were(are) a few problems with >the ][fxs that are leaving Apple, and IBM had problems with their PS/2s. > >It's a new machine, and you've got to expect this kind of thing...how many of >you out there bought some of the original A1000s (though this had more >problems in software), or how about one of the first A500s? > I bought an early A1000. Two weeks after I got it, it wouldn't recognize a kickstart disk (that's funny, it looked like a kickstart disk to me, I guess computer AI wasn't well developed yet :) Anyhow, the dealer said my internal floppy was bad. I said fine, replace it. They said that they couldn't, and that they had to repair it themselves. Of course I was assured that it would take practically no time to do. Well, to make a short story no shorter, two months later they returned it to me with a brand new floppy drive. Sooooo, the moral of the story is to call Commodore themselves and ask questions. If the dealer seems to be screwing you, try checking with the source to see if it's true. I should have checked with Commodore if two months was a long time to wait for a drive for my new computer. It seems that if you are willing to take ownership of a new product that has not been tested in the marketplace, you should expect to experience some bugs and problems. This time I am waiting before adding the newest Amiga to my list, not only because I am relatively poor (student :), but because I don't really have the time to wade through any initial bugs. I have my A1000 running nicely now, and can wait a while to get the benefits of an A3000. An eternity of thanks to the Commodore Engineers, Joe Peck peck@ral.rpi.edu
JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) (08/09/90)
In article <419500038@S62.Prime.COM>, MIKER@S62.Prime.COM says: > >Personally, I'd want to hear: "We'll send you a refund if you can't >wait for the repair." And that is another problem here, Repair! I >don't want a "repaired" system when I paid for a "New" system. > Don't underestimate how nice it can be to have a repaired or refurbished unit. A repaired unit has been THOROUGHLY inspected and tested, much more than can be done on the assembly line. I've had both new and refurbished computers, and the refurbished I trust refurbished equipment more than new, actually. ones have nearly always outlived the new ones. I understand you paid full price and thus want a new unit, and you deserve one. But just because a unit is repaired, doesn't mean it is necessarily inferior. Kurt -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- || Kurt Tappe (215) 363-9485 || Amigas, Macs, IBM's, C-64's, NeXTs, || || 184 W. Valley Hill Rd. || Apple ]['s.... I use 'em all. || || Malvern, PA 19355-2214 || (and in that order too! ;-) || || jkt100@psuvm.psu.edu --------------------------------------|| || jkt100@psuvm.bitnet jkt100%psuvm.bitnet@psuvax1 QLink: KurtTappe || -----------------------------------------------------------------------
rar@auc.UUCP (Rodney Ricks) (08/09/90)
In article <3860@crash.cts.com> seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) writes: >In-Reply-To: message from MIKER@S62.Prime.COM > > >This problem isn't specific to Commodore Oh, it's definitely not. > ...there were(are) a few problems with >the ][fxs that are leaving Apple, I heard that there were enough problems that they recalled (some of) them. This is from a friend of mine who has a Mac. I have yet to confirm this. We could also talk about a little known machine from Apple, called the Apple III. Apple (tried to) come out with it several years ago. From what I heard, 50% of the units failed in-house testing, and of those that made it out, 50% of those failed. I guess that's one reason why you don't see many of them. > and IBM had problems with their PS/2s. They also had problems with the hard drives on early PC AT's, which was documented in several magazines. >It's a new machine, and you've got to expect this kind of thing... Now, the test will be to see: 1) How fast the problem rate goes down to an acceptable level 2) How they deal with the problems >Sean Rodney (Hoping to be an A3000 owner soon) Ricks -- "We may have come over here in different ships, but we're all in the same boat now." -- Jesse Jackson // \\ // Rodney Ricks, Morehouse College \/
plav@cup.portal.com (Rick M Plavnicky) (08/09/90)
In a recent article oliver@lincoln.cs.unc.edu (Bill Oliver) wrote: >In article <26b7be41-2677.6comp.sys.amiga-1@tronsbox.xei.com> dfrancis@tronsbo >> RE getting dead machines from Commodore >> >> I sympathize with the original poster; my 2000 was dead on arrival and >>it took about a month to get a new one out of Commodore. The dealer we >>bought it from wasn't helpful- we had to go past them and deal directly >>with Commodore (making at least one person's life in Customer Support a livin >hell ;-) ). >> > > >I'm a little surprised. I bought a 2500/30 through the educational >discount just before the 3000 was announced (sigh!), and the thing >blew it's power supply two weeks after I got it. I called the >dealer I went through (Servatronics Technologies in Burlington, NC), >and they said no problem -- it took them a little less than a week to >get the parts and fix the machine. All in all, I was happy both with >the machine and the service. > >I guess it all depends on who your local dealer is. > >Bill Oliver In the not-too-distant past I perceived I was having some problems with my dealer concerning warranty service on my 2000. I posted about it and one reader, Jeffrey M. Schweiger, was kind enough to forward my posting to Dave Minnich of CBM Customer Service. Here are some excerpts from Dave's reply to my posting: DM>I am getting tired of service centers blaming us for not shipping parts DM>that have never been ordered, lost when delivered, or not shipped because DM>the service center is on credit hold for not paying their bills, so I DM>would like to look into this one further. DM> DM>Ask Mr. Plavnicky to send me the folling info: DM> DM>Dealer name, address and phone number DM> DM>Date machine taken in for service DM> DM>Date motherboard ordered (not a guess, please call and find out) DM> DM>Service Tech's name DM> DM>Any comments he'd like to make about his experiences with this dealer DM>regarding the motherboard replacement problem. DM> DM>Dave As it turned out, my case was just a matter of bad timing. CBM was in the middle of inventory or something and my dealer was not at fault at all. I explained that in subsequent email, and told him that there were others on usenet that maight be able to use his help. He said: DM>By all means, post my name and Compuserve address on the net. I will be DM>glad to help anyone I can. So, if you're having troubles, try dropping Dave a line on Compuserve. He has no usenet access, but I understand that many sites can get email back and forth. One of these may work: 76703.2047@compuserve.com 76703.2047%compuserve.com@saqqara.cis.ohio-state.edu If you find your site can't do it, then drop me a line and I'll pass it along. Good luck! /* Rick Plavnicky ...!sun!cup.portal.com!plav -or- plav@cup.portal.com */
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (08/11/90)
In-Reply-To: message from rar@auc.UUCP One thing I didn't see in all of those messages about disgruntled A3000 owners was their clockspeed...were they using the 16MHz or the 25MHz versions. Supposedly, the 16MHz versions are having problems with the custom chips, and the BUSTER in particular... Sean //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc | ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil | " Fanatics have their INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com | dreams, wherewith they | weave a paradise for RealWorld: Sean Cunningham | a sect. " Voice: (512) 994-1602 PLINK: ce3k* | -Keats | Call C.B.A.U.G. BBS (512) 883-8351 w/SkyPix | B^) VISION GRAPHICS B^) \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
navas@cory.uucp (David C. Navas) (08/11/90)
In article <3889@crash.cts.com> seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) writes: >One thing I didn't see in all of those messages about disgruntled A3000 owners >was their clockspeed...were they using the 16MHz or the 25MHz versions. All the problems I've posted (that is, the scan-line JUMP) is occurring on an A3000 25MHz with 1950 monitor. I'm inclined to believe it's the monitor [I hope so, I guess I'll find out shortly...]. David Navas navas@sim.berkeley.edu "Excuse my ignorance, but I've been run over by my train of thought." -me