daemon@rutgers.UUCP (03/02/87)
From: Thomka.OsbuSouth@Xerox.COM
At the Commodore Show in San Francisco I purchased the "KickStart
Eliminator" from Creative Microsystems. It is a grand idea. But there
may be problems for you, as there are for me.
First the idea of the "KickStart Eliminator" is to:
1. To put the 256K bytes of Kickstart 1.2 in ROM, and in your Amiga,
thus you will have the "put workbench disk" icon on the screen in about
3 or 4 seconds. Instead of the 30-33 seconds it takes using the usual
boot KickStart process.
2. To allow your Amiga to be a "turn-key" machine. That's where by just
having the proper "Startup-Sequence" you can have your desktop arranged
for you (or CLI window(s), or whatever) soon after turning power on.
All with no additional operator entry. That means if you have your
Amiga is being used by less knowledgable people, who don't know how to
adjust things the way that is best for them, you can set up a startup
file that will do it for them.
3. (and this is the one that I liked best) Since the WCS (Write Control
Store) RAM is no longer needed, it is re-addressed to a usable place to
you. For your own FastRAM use. So now your get a "free" 256K of
FastRAM in your Amiga. The typical 512K Amiga now becomes a 768K Amiga.
4. The new KickStart v1.2 ROMs are identical to what has been released
by Commodore/Amiga (it is licensed). They are to be installed on
sockets so that you can later (if needed) replug in the old Boot ROMs to
get back the way it used to be. Special note here: CMI will give you a
HACKER wiring modification where you can install a 4PDT switch and
you'll be able to easily go back and forth between the two booting
processes at power turn on.
5. Since the ROMs are to be installed in sockets (two are presently in
your Amiga, used by the Boot ROMs, and two new sockets are in the kit)
you can later easily send in your "old" v1.2 ROMs when any newer
KickStart is released (v1.3?? v2.0??).
BUT the problems I've found in the kit I bought:
1. Two of the four (27512) ROMs were marked identically. I do know that
they are not identical, because I read them at work and that are vastly
different.
2. prob 1, by itself is not catastrophic because I could just install
the ROMs one way in the provided sockets and if that doesn't work just
try the other way. BUT THERE IS ANOTHER PROBLEM. Seems that two of the
KickStart ROMs must be installed under the disk drive. The drive I have
is a NEC drive. Seems that NEC did not follow the exact physical
specification, and there is not sufficient clearance under the drive for
both the ROM and socket. I can solder the 2 offending ROMs to the
motherboard. BUT because of prob #1, I don't know which should be
where!
3. A couple of the flow-through feed holes that you have to clear for
the instalation of the new parts are connected to the ground plane, of
course. And CMI does state in their manual that you might have a more
difficult time in clearing those holes, because of the heat sink the
ground plane acts as.
Well, they weren't kidding!! I had my wife remove the old PAL chip (one
that you replace with a socket and new PAL). My wife is a professional
NASA qualified electronic rework/assembly person. She had a bear of a
time getting those holes clear. Oh, it can be done. But if you are not
experienced in this type of work you could easily hurt the sensitive
etches on the board. Remember, too much heat and those traces will lift
from the board surface; but too little heat and you'll never get that
solder to soften. (By the way, yes, we were able to do a good job, and
everything did clear properly, after some careful work.)
So, because of problems #1 and #2 I could not finish the job. So after
getting the new PAL in, I set the new board jumper to use the old Boot
ROMs and buttoned the Amiga back up. It still works as before.
So for now my $115 (show special,vs the $130 retail) is tied up into 4
ROMs that are sitting on my shelf at home. Sigh.
Chuck hutch@sdcsvax.UUCP (03/03/87)
In article <1072@rutgers.RUTGERS.EDU> Charles_E._Thomka writes:
<At the Commodore Show in San Francisco I purchased the "KickStart
<Eliminator" from Creative Microsystems.
...some words of product praise deleted...
<BUT the problems I've found in the kit I bought:
<1. Two of the four (27512) ROMs were marked identically. I do know that
<they are not identical, because I read them at work and that are vastly
<different.
So call CMI (503) 684-9300. I had a problem with a PAL leg that UPS
stuffed through the shutter of the disk...they sent me a new one by 2
day air, no hassles, very nice (the set up manual says "The customer is
always right").
<2. prob 1, by itself is not catastrophic because I could just install
<the ROMs one way in the provided sockets and if that doesn't work just
<try the other way. BUT THERE IS ANOTHER PROBLEM. Seems that two of the
<KickStart ROMs must be installed under the disk drive. The drive I have
<is a NEC drive. Seems that NEC did not follow the exact physical
<specification, and there is not sufficient clearance under the drive for
<both the ROM and socket.
Hmmmm, you could perhaps put in a small (1/18") riser to make room.
The panason's are not that much taller (but oh, much quieter!).
Another note, many local places (some near you?) will sell it to you
and install it for you for a nominal price (~$160).
Mine was $134 including shipping, conned my inestimbly skilled
housemate to do all the skilled labor (took about 2 hours, 1 was to get
it open/closed).
--
Jim Hutchison UUCP: {dcdwest,ucbvax}!sdcsvax!hutch
ARPA: Hutch@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu
2049 6d61 7320 6c65 2066 6572 7270 7365 6e65 6974 676e 6920 206e 6874 7369 6120
7472 6369 656c 202c 2049 6572 7270 7365 6e65 2074 6e6f 796c 6d20 7379 6c65 2e66lord@leadsv.UUCP (Parker Lord) (02/02/89)
I read on the net of the existence of a product called the Kickstart Eliminator. Does this board do what it actually implies such as eliminating the need to install the Kickstart disk every time the amiga (I have an A1000) is turned on? Such a thing would be very helpful. My question is where do you go about ordering such a thing and are they hard to install. Does any other product exist to allow you to boot up without a Kickstart disk? Any and all help will be appreciated. +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // AA M M I GGGGGG AA | | Parker J. Lord // A A MM MM G A A | | lord@leadsv.UUCP // A A M M M M I G A A | | \\ // AAAAAA M M M I G GGG AAAAAA | | \\ // A A M M I G G A A | | \\/ A A M M I GGGGGG A A | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
jgary@ms.uky.edu (James E. Gary) (02/03/89)
In article <5948@leadsv.UUCP> lord@leadsv.UUCP (Parker Lord) writes: > > I read on the net of the existence of a product called the Kickstart >Eliminator. Does this board do what it actually implies such as eliminating >the need to install the Kickstart disk every time the amiga (I have an A1000) >is turned on? Such a thing would be very helpful. My question is where do >you go about ordering such a thing and are they hard to install. Does any >other product exist to allow you to boot up without a Kickstart disk? > I haven't used the Kickstart Eliminator, but under 1.2 I used a disk I got from a freind called KickBench. It had Kickstart1.2 and Workbench 1.2 on it (actually a minimal Workbench) and was good enough to boot up the hard drive. I don't know what tricks it used exactly, but it apparently rewrote it's own boot track. It doesn't save you the time you spend loading Kickstart, but it does save you a disk swap. I would like to see such a thing for 1.3. I made a minimal RAD: for booting the hard drive in 82K, so I am sure I would have room on a Kickbench1.3 disk (if such a thing exists). Does anyone know anything more about KickBench and if a 1.3 version exists? It's great for hard drive users, you hardly ever take the disk out. You have to keep it write-enabled, which is a little scary with the virsuses out there now, but I liked it nonetheless. -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | James Gary jgary@ms.uky.edu | You Klingon sons, you've killed| | University of Kentucky | my bastard! -Kames Jirk | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) (02/12/89)
From article <5948@leadsv.UUCP:, by lord@leadsv.UUCP (Parker Lord):
:
: I read on the net of the existence of a product called the Kickstart
: Eliminator. Does this board do what it actually implies such as eliminating
: the need to install the Kickstart disk every time the amiga (I have an A1000)
: is turned on? Such a thing would be very helpful. My question is where do
: you go about ordering such a thing and are they hard to install. Does any
: other product exist to allow you to boot up without a Kickstart disk?
That's exactly what the Kickstart Eliminator does. It is a kit that
gives you the proper EPROMs/PALs to put the Kickstart on the motherboard of
your 1000. The installation is fairly simple, but does require some expertise
with a soldering iron. You have to remove a PAL from the daughterboard and
install sockets on the motherboard. They are available from pretty much any
dealer/mail order house, or direct from CMI at 19552 SW 90th CT., Tualitan,
Oregon 97062 (503) 691-2552. Note that you also get to use that old KS memory
as expansion memory. An extra 256K never hurts...
: Any and all help will be appreciated.
:
: +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
: | // AA M M I GGGGGG AA |
: | Parker J. Lord // A A MM MM G A A |
: | lord@leadsv.UUCP // A A M M M M I G A A |
: | \\ // AAAAAA M M M I G GGG AAAAAA |
: | \\ // A A M M I G G A A |
: | \\/ A A M M I GGGGGG A A |
: +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
--
-Bill Seymour ...tektronix!reed!percival!agora!billsey
...tektronix!sequent!blowpig!billsey
Creative Microsystems Northwest Amiga Group At Home Sometimes
(503) 684-9300 (503) 656-7393 BBS (503) 640-0842jgary@ms.uky.edu (James E. Gary) (02/14/89)
In article <1372@agora.UUCP> billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) writes: >From article <5948@leadsv.UUCP:, by lord@leadsv.UUCP (Parker Lord): [stuff about kickstart elimination HARDWARE delete] That's fine, but what about kickbench. I personally don't mind the time required to load kickstart, it is the disk swap that bothers me. I had a disk called kickbench (pd, there is a commercial variation) with kickstart/workbench on one disk. That was a 1.2 disk. What _I_ want is a 1.3 kickbench disk. Can anyone help me there? -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | James Gary jgary@ms.uky.edu | You Klingon sons, you've killed| | University of Kentucky | my bastard! -Kames Jirk | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
lindwall@sdsu.UUCP (John Lindwall) (02/15/89)
In article <1372@agora.UUCP>, billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) writes: > (Stuff about KickStart Eliminator. -- ed) Does this product use 1.3 ROMS? (as opposed to 1.2). Does it allow booting from a floppy KickStart if desired? How? Is the extra 256K fast ram or half-fast ram or what? Do any programs have problems utilizing this ram? Thanks! GigaWhat John johnl@tw-rnd.SanDiego.NCR.COM
ba@m-net.UUCP (Bill Allen) (02/17/89)
What I would like to see to combat the 2-disk-boot-1000 and must-buy-new-1.3-ROM-500 is battery backed-up RAM. KS is booted from disk into battery backed-up RAM chips. Which ever version is current is stored there throughout every coldstart. When a new version of KS comes out you boot with it (ONCE) and that becomes your new operating system. The speed and convience of a ROM boot with the ease of disk- based updates. Has anyone seen such a animal? Is this possible? -- --------------------------------------------------------- Reply-To: ba@m2-net.UUCP (Bill Allen Beogelein) Organization: M-NET, Ann Arbor, MI ---------------------------------------------------------
mikes@lakesys.UUCP (Mike Shawaluk) (02/18/89)
In article <2909@m2-net.UUCP> ba@m-net.UUCP (Bill Allen) writes: > >What I would like to see to combat the 2-disk-boot-1000 and >must-buy-new-1.3-ROM-500 is battery backed-up RAM. KS is >booted from disk into battery backed-up RAM chips. Which >ever version is current is stored there throughout every >coldstart. When a new version of KS comes out you boot with >it (ONCE) and that becomes your new operating system. The >speed and convience of a ROM boot with the ease of disk- >based updates. Has anyone seen such a animal? Is this >possible? Actually, the above SHOULD BE possible, and not even that difficult! I can think of two variations on the theme; first of all, a static-RAM version of the WCS daughterboard in the 1000, with lithium cells. That's easy enough, right? Only it'd be a tad expensive, since static CMOS RAMs got pretty expensive about the same time as dynamic ones. You'd need 256KBytes worth, which would be 4 64K x 8's or 8 32K x 8's... Anyways, I also can see a second variation, which would be an autoboot RAM board, which goes on the bus, but is in fact a sort of external WCS board. I'm not very well versed on the details of the expansion bus, but maybe someone else out there is; is it possible for a memory board (or other peripheral) to supercede internal memory at a particular address? That is, can an external board unmap the internal ROMs in a 500 or 2000 (or 1000 for that matter)? I'm betting that the answer to this question is "no", or else there would be external add-on Kickstart eliminators out there... -- - Mike Shawaluk ...!uunet!marque!lakesys!mikes
billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) (02/20/89)
From article <11074@s.ms.uky.edu:, by jgary@ms.uky.edu (James E. Gary):
: In article <1372@agora.UUCP: billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) writes:
::From article <5948@leadsv.UUCP:, by lord@leadsv.UUCP (Parker Lord):
: [stuff about kickstart elimination HARDWARE delete]
:
: That's fine, but what about kickbench. I personally don't mind the
: time required to load kickstart, it is the disk swap that bothers me.
: I had a disk called kickbench (pd, there is a commercial variation)
: with kickstart/workbench on one disk. That was a 1.2 disk. What _I_
: want is a 1.3 kickbench disk. Can anyone help me there?
There was a file posted to People Link this week called
KBench13.arc. I assume this is just what you want. I imagine it's
on it's way to comp.binaries.amiga right now, but if not, it should
show up on your local BBS.
: --
: +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
: | James Gary jgary@ms.uky.edu | You Klingon sons, you've killed|
: | University of Kentucky | my bastard! -Kames Jirk |
: +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
--
-Bill Seymour ...tektronix!reed!percival!agora!billsey
...tektronix!sequent!blowpig!billsey
Creative Microsystems Northwest Amiga Group At Home Sometimes
(503) 691-2552 (503) 656-7393 BBS (503) 640-0842sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (02/20/89)
In article <402@lakesys.UUCP>, mikes@lakesys.UUCP (Mike Shawaluk) writes: > In article <2909@m2-net.UUCP> ba@m-net.UUCP (Bill Allen) writes: > > > >What I would like to see to combat the 2-disk-boot-1000 and > >must-buy-new-1.3-ROM-500 is battery backed-up RAM. KS is > > Actually, the above SHOULD BE possible, and not even that difficult! I can > think of two variations on the theme; first of all, a static-RAM version of > the WCS daughterboard in the 1000, with lithium cells. That's easy enough, It would be nice. how about using EEPROMS? no need for battery backup. You could have an amiga check if there was a Kickstart disk in the drive when it's first powered up, if so, rewrite the EEPROM. of course EEPROMS have a certain lifetime of re-writes. But it should be fine for the occasional re-write to be compatable with older software and the once a year of so update from commodore. I wonder why commodore didn't do that to begin with? adds a little cost to the machine, but negligible compared to the $40 bucks a year to upgrade to the new ROMS. Maybe that's why... they make more money by selling upgrades. They could of course still charge you $40 bucks for the kickstart disk, but I guess they would be afraid of too many people copying the disks. You can't easily copy ROMS (not the average owner anyway). make -- John Sparks // Amiga | {rutgers|uunet}!ukma!corpane!sparks \X/ UUCP | >> call D.I.S.K. @ 502/968-5401 thru 5406 << If at first you don't succeed, you're doing about average.
hgm@ccvr1.ncsu.edu (Hal G. Meeks) (08/18/90)
I've recently purchased an Amiga 1000 to keep my 2000 company, and as "compatability insurance" when I upgrade to a 3000 (selling my 2000 in the process). I remember seeing a couple of companies selling something called a Kickstart Elimator (in fact, that was the brand name of one of them). A side benefit of using one was that you could reclaim the 256k that Kickstart uses, and addmem it to the rest of the system memory. I've been casually looking to see if such an animal still exists. I figure that it can't run too much money, and I already have access to a KS 1.2 ROM. Besides any pointers as to where to find one, I'm interested in practical experience as to their stability. Please don't recommend that I run out and buy a Rejuvenator board; the whole point of the 1000 purchase was to keep costs down (besides the fact that I've always thought it was a neater looking box than the 2000). --hal -- hgm@ccvr1.cc.ncsu.edu "He was a legendary hero, netoprhm@ncsuvm.bitnet his IQ was zero." Zoogz Rift