NJ_GOKEM%FANDM.BITNET@pucc.princeton.edu (08/03/90)
>From: edu%"trantow@csd4.csd.uwm.edu""Jerry J Trantow" 2-AUG-1990 14:10:43.83 You Write: [pondering stuff deleted] > >Will there be a FredFish optical disk? (Needs a catchy name) > >Think about it, no more looking through the back of a magazine for titles, >a reduction in c.s.a traffic for FTP sites of fish disks, >code examples at your typing finger tips, >games galore! > >And only with Amiga. > >Jerry J. Trantow Yes! That would be great, But, and this is an important but, don't go the way apple-macintosh CD's went. Whole CD's are packed with the greatest bu@@s@@t ever. Let's hope that that will not happen. Maybe we need to make a Billboard top 100 software programs CD, where only the best PD and SHAREWARE software will be found. For example: on the MAC-CDROM from EDUCORP are over 25 communications-programs, 2 of them could do XMODEM, none could do ZMODEM. Why not just 5 com-programs, all of which are good! Yes, I am for a FISHCD, but only if it is the best! Nils Gokemeijer (NJ_GOKEMEIJE@FANDM)
cknight@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (King Claudius) (08/03/90)
How about the: ***Fred Fish Floptical!*** Catchy, and totally obnoxious...that of course requires it to be on a floptical disc....but why not? I wouldn't want to buy a CD ROM player nowadays... -- cknight@polyslo.calpoly.edu ---King Claudius---
joseph@valnet (Joseph Hillenburg) (08/03/90)
NJ_GOKEM%FANDM.BITNET@pucc.princeton.edu writes: > > > >From: edu%"trantow@csd4.csd.uwm.edu""Jerry J Trantow" 2-AUG-1990 14:10:43. > You Write: > [pondering stuff deleted] > > > >Will there be a FredFish optical disk? (Needs a catchy name) > > > >Think about it, no more looking through the back of a magazine for titles, > >a reduction in c.s.a traffic for FTP sites of fish disks, > >code examples at your typing finger tips, > >games galore! > > > >And only with Amiga. > > > >Jerry J. Trantow > > Yes! That would be great, > But, and this is an important but, > don't go the way apple-macintosh CD's went. > > Whole CD's are packed with the greatest bu@@s@@t ever. > Let's hope that that will not happen. Maybe we need to > make a Billboard top 100 software programs CD, where only the best > PD and SHAREWARE software will be found. > For example: on the MAC-CDROM from EDUCORP are over 25 communications-program > 2 of them could do XMODEM, none could do ZMODEM. > Why not just 5 com-programs, all of which are good! > > Yes, I am for a FISHCD, but only if it is the best! > > Nils Gokemeijer (NJ_GOKEMEIJE@FANDM) If Fish makes a CD, the first one should include all the Fish disks to date. That way, we know it has good programs on it. He should keep making his floppies, and when he gets 300 new ones, he should pack the new ones onto another CD-ROM. He should also unarchive those #!#!$#! .zoo and .arc archives. (Aren't they a pain?!?) -Joseph Hillenburg InterNet: joseph@valnet UUCP: iuvax!valnet!joseph PC-Link: Joe Hillenburg Most other systems: Joseph Hillenburg Don't buy a computer unless it's an Amiga - Me - AMIGA RULES! - AMIGA RUL
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (08/04/90)
In <MWM.90Aug3154335@raven.pa.dec.com>, mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amigas have keyboard garages) Meyer) writes: > >The point of the CD-ROM is that it will hold the _entire_ Fish >collection (twice, even?). Pruning it based on quality for a CD-rom >isn't applicable. Doing "Gold Fish" (stolen name) that have your "best >of the Fish disks" on them is something different. Heartily agreed! One thing though; for maximum utility, a CD-ROM containing the Fish disks should be indexed, cross indexed, and cross-cross indexed; the more indexes the better. With appropriate software and an appropriate index, you should be able to find references to any word in any file on any disk, discounting some words, such as 'the', 'and', 'in', etc. Imagine being able to search for example code using system call names, keywords that are likely to appear in comments or READMEs, using logical AND or OR to qualify the search. While an index could easily take up as much or more space as the data, I feel that it would be well worth it, even if it meant splitting the entire current collection into 2 CD-ROMs. >Later, when we get to Fish disk #700 or so, it might do to prune >antique versions of the software. But I'd be loathe to prune any old >versions before it was necessary, as the new versions may have bugs >that break vital features for a few users. Absolutely. With CD-ROM, there is no need to prune. All versions of any given piece of code might be useful to someone, if for no other reason than to show what has been changed, and how a problem routine was rewritten. It has been said that the CD-ROM field is currently in a 'chicken-and-egg' situation, and to some degree that is true. Fortunately, this is changing, and will continue to change rapidly. Current drive prices, from mail order outlets, have dropped to under $800 (and I may even be out of date on that). Sun Microsystems is now bundling a CD-ROM drive with all SPARCservers, and an external SCSI CD-ROM unit can be purchased from them for about $1000, including case and power supply. Sun will, in the forseeable future, use CD-ROM for distribution of all OS updates. Apple is getting into it heavily, and so on. Looking at the market, it looks like a CD-ROM drive in a reasonable price range (say, under $500), and an indexed Fish disk collection would sell fairly well, to developers, user groups, and dealers. Developers because it would be a near priceless resource for example source code, user groups because it would be easy to distribute Fish disks to members, and dealers because it would serve as a draw to get people into the store. Could the initial market serve to make it worthwhile? I think so, and I hope CBM thinks so too, and that it will spur them to bring out a low cost drive, and to support any efforts to provide software for it. Heck, if I could buy an indexed Fish CD-ROM right now, at anywhere under $50, I would do it in an instant, just on the speculation that there will be a CD-ROm drive in my future. A retail price of $50 should net a profit for the work required to do the index and search software, leaving the Fish contents as close to free as the spirit of the collection demands. -larry -- Sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (08/04/90)
In <90215.224515JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu>, JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) writes: >>> Whole CD's are packed with the greatest bu@@s@@t ever. >>> Let's hope that that will not happen. Maybe we need to >>> make a Billboard top 100 software programs CD, where only the best >>> PD and SHAREWARE software will be found. >>> >>> Yes, I am for a FISHCD, but only if it is the best! >> >>If Fish makes a CD, the first one should include all the Fish disks to >>date. That way, we know it has good programs on it. > >I also strongly plead that only QUALITY programs go on such a CD. > >I disagree that EVERY program off of every fish disk go on it. >Many disks contain programs that bug-fixes were supplied for in >later disks. Why include the earlier versions? Instead, >substitute a short note stating that the bug-fixed program >can be found 10 disks forward. :-) The value of a collection of disks is that it _is_ a collection, not a 'partial collection' wherein someone has made judgements based on _their_ criteria as to what should/should not be included. It costs no more to put 350 disks on a CD-ROm than it does to put one disk on it. I have no objections to a 'best of', but I probably wouldn't bother buying it. -larry -- Sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amigas have keyboard garages) Meyer) (08/04/90)
In article <26477@snow-white.udel.EDU> NJ_GOKEM%FANDM.BITNET@pucc.princeton.edu writes: Path: bacchus.pa.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!decuac!haven!udel!mmdf From: NJ_GOKEM%FANDM.BITNET@pucc.princeton.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Date: 2 Aug 90 18:43:43 GMT Sender: mmdf@udel.EDU Lines: 32 >From: edu%"trantow@csd4.csd.uwm.edu""Jerry J Trantow" 2-AUG-1990 14:10:43.83 >Will there be a FredFish optical disk? (Needs a catchy name) Yes! That would be great, But, and this is an important but, don't go the way apple-macintosh CD's went. For example: on the MAC-CDROM from EDUCORP are over 25 communications-programs, 2 of them could do XMODEM, none could do ZMODEM. Why not just 5 com-programs, all of which are good! Because for some reason, the authors of those other 20 thought the 5 you call "good" weren't acceptable - i.e, they needed VideoTron 150 emulation, and little else, which none of them provided. The point of the CD-ROM is that it will hold the _entire_ Fish collection (twice, even?). Pruning it based on quality for a CD-rom isn't applicable. Doing "Gold Fish" (stolen name) that have your "best of the Fish disks" on them is something different. Later, when we get to Fish disk #700 or so, it might do to prune antique versions of the software. But I'd be loathe to prune any old versions before it was necessary, as the new versions may have bugs that break vital features for a few users. <mike -- Cats will be cats and cats will be cool Mike Meyer Cats can be callous and cats can be cruel mwm@relay.pa.dec.com Cats will be cats, remember this words! decwrl!mwm Cats will be cats and cats eat birds.
JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) (08/04/90)
>> Whole CD's are packed with the greatest bu@@s@@t ever. >> Let's hope that that will not happen. Maybe we need to >> make a Billboard top 100 software programs CD, where only the best >> PD and SHAREWARE software will be found. >> >> Yes, I am for a FISHCD, but only if it is the best! > >If Fish makes a CD, the first one should include all the Fish disks to >date. That way, we know it has good programs on it. I also strongly plead that only QUALITY programs go on such a CD. I disagree that EVERY program off of every fish disk go on it. Many disks contain programs that bug-fixes were supplied for in later disks. Why include the earlier versions? Instead, substitute a short note stating that the bug-fixed program can be found 10 disks forward. :-) Kurt -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- || Kurt Tappe (215) 363-9485 || Amigas, Macs, IBM's, C-64's, NeXTs, || || 184 W. Valley Hill Rd. || Apple ]['s.... I use 'em all. || || Malvern, PA 19355-2214 || (and in that order too! ;-) || || jkt100@psuvm.psu.edu --------------------------------------|| || jkt100@psuvm.bitnet jkt100%psuvm.bitnet@psuvax1 QLink: KurtTappe || -----------------------------------------------------------------------
jwright@cfht.hawaii.edu (Jim Wright) (08/05/90)
JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) writes: >>> Yes, I am for a FISHCD, but only if it is the best! >I also strongly plead that only QUALITY programs go on such a CD. >I disagree that EVERY program off of every fish disk go on it. And just what are your plans for that precious space you are saving on the CDROM? Remember, *read*only*, use it or lose it. You're not talking about floppy disks. -- Jim Wright jwright@quonset.cfht.hawaii.edu Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope Corp.
dougp@voodoo.ucsb.edu (08/05/90)
-Message-Text-Follows- I am surprized that noone mentioned the greatest advantage of a CD ROM Fish Disk, The CD ROM at about $5.00 pluss the CD ROM player at about $500.00 would be cheaper than buying the entire set of fish disks at the already great price of $2.00 per disk for 300+ disks. Unfortunately, creating this CD ROM would require an upfront investment of about $5000 on the part of Fred Fish. A possible solution would be to have Commodore arrange for the production of the disks, and include them with their roumored CD ROM drive, as well as selling them at cost to Fred Fish so he could distribute them. Updateing the disk once a year would probably be enough unless the volume brought the price of more frequent updates low enough. I am in favor of just publishing the entire collection as is, sorting through all that data would be a horendous task. For future releases, I would prefer to have the software so it could be executed directly from the CD ROM. Douglas Peale
trantow@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Jerry J Trantow) (08/06/90)
In article <6058@hub.ucsb.edu> dougp@voodoo.ucsb.edu writes: >-Message-Text-Follows- > >I am surprized that noone mentioned the greatest advantage of a CD ROM >Fish Disk, The CD ROM at about $5.00 pluss the CD ROM player at about >$500.00 would be cheaper than buying the entire set of fish disks at >the already great price of $2.00 per disk for 300+ disks. > >Unfortunately, creating this CD ROM would require an upfront investment >of about $5000 on the part of Fred Fish. A possible solution would be >to have Commodore arrange for the production of the disks, and include >them wi OK, ater a fair amount of discussion this thread got back to my original intent. Are there plans for thee Fred Fish disks to be amoung the often quoted 100 CD titles that will be released with the CDTV. I realize this disk might be of little value to CDTV owners (unless they had the optional devices), but it would show that CBM is serious about CD ROM and quite frankly I can not think of a better resource to have on CD ROM. From all the discussion, it seems that quite a few on the net agree that the Fish disks would be a valuable asset. I would also guess that there are or were no plans for such a disk before the discussion started. >Updateing the disk once a year would probably be enough unless the >volume brought the price of more frequent updates low enough. > >I am in favor of just publishing the entire collection as is, sorting >through all that data would be a horendous task. For future releases, >I would prefer to have the software so it could be executed directly >from the CD ROM. > >Douglas Peale As has been mentioned, culling out the updates and bad examples is not necessary in an initial release. There is room for all the disks. Having a disk with the "best" is an idea when the CD ROM nears capacity. As far as the indexing goes, it is a great idea, but would not be worth delaying such a project. Why not take the approach of the Census Bureau? Make the data available and let the private sector do what they want with it. If CBM or Fred or ??? would publish a Fish CD ROM, I don't think it would take very long before we saw PD/shareware/$$ programs that would do the indexing and searching. How long would it take to put together a Cando or AmigaVision stack that you would customize with your own search criteria. I realize indexing would save time, but just having all the floppies condensed onto one CD ROM would be a hell of an improve ment over a file cabinet of floppies, waitnaiting for a users meeting, or searching for a FTP site. Let's keep kicking this idea around for a while longer and hopefully someone will see a way to give the Amiga Community a big boost. _____________________________________________________________________________ Jerry J. Trantow | A basic premise is an absolute that permits no 1560 A. East Irving Place | co-operation with its antithesis and Milwaukee, Wi 53202-1460 | tolerates no tolerance. (414) 289-0503 | Ayn Rand _____________________________________________________________________________
cmcmanis@stpeter.Eng.Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (08/07/90)
In article <90215.224515JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu> JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) writes: >I also strongly plead that only QUALITY programs go on such a CD. If the difference is between a CD that is 25% full and a CD that is 50% full why do you care? It isn't like a back rev version of something is making it impossible to fit the "latest" version or anything like that. Also you can see what caused the bugs in the first place by looking at the old versions. -- --Chuck McManis Sun Microsystems uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: <none> Internet: cmcmanis@Eng.Sun.COM These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. "I tell you this parrot is bleeding deceased!"
a665@mindlink.UUCP (Anthon Pang) (08/07/90)
> steve@dcdwest.uucp writes: > In article <jwright.649802443@quonset> jwright@cfht.hawaii.edu (Jim Wright) > writes: > >JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) writes: > >>>> Yes, I am for a FISHCD, but only if it is the best! > >>I also strongly plead that only QUALITY programs go on such a CD. > >>I disagree that EVERY program off of every fish disk go on it. > > > >And just what are your plans for that precious space you are saving > >on the CDROM? . . . > > How about hundreds of megs of the best animations ever done for the Amiga? > Dr. Gandalf, etc - other PD artwork - The best of the BADGE Killer Demo > Contest - this is the chance to get all those classic things that you didn't > want to spend hundreds of hours downloading over your phone line! The > possibilities are nearly endless! Yeah...with "TASS" we can have huge animations running off the disk. And you can store lots of digitized sounds/samples...and play them off the disk with "Sound". You can have every 8SVX instrument imaginable for Sonix & DMCS. Wow!
steve@dcdwest.uucp (Steve Meloche) (08/07/90)
In article <jwright.649802443@quonset> jwright@cfht.hawaii.edu (Jim Wright) writes: >JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) writes: >>>> Yes, I am for a FISHCD, but only if it is the best! >>I also strongly plead that only QUALITY programs go on such a CD. >>I disagree that EVERY program off of every fish disk go on it. > >And just what are your plans for that precious space you are saving >on the CDROM? . . . How about hundreds of megs of the best animations ever done for the Amiga? Dr. Gandalf, etc - other PD artwork - The best of the BADGE Killer Demo Contest - this is the chance to get all those classic things that you didn't want to spend hundreds of hours downloading over your phone line! The possibilities are nearly endless! _____ _____ _____ Steven Meloche | ` | ' ` | ' ITT Avionics/Communications Division | | | San Diego, CA __|__ | |
jdickson@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov (Jeff Dickson) (08/07/90)
Would someone please tell me what the GURU meditation number 0000000B.00000000 is ? thanxs, Jeff
gerber@buzzer.enet.dec.com (Robert M. Gerber) (08/08/90)
On Cost of a Fish CD: One of the previous postings quoted the setup for pressing at about $3000 and if I remember correctly, $5 a disk for pressing. All that Fred would have to do is get 500 or more preorders for the disk and he could charge $25 a disk to cover all costs. Each run after the initial would require about 200 disks per batch to keep the costs down. I think that we could find many more than 500 people to buy such a disk. On the content: I would vote for everything...after all even if the Fish collection does overflow one disk, I think I could find room for a second disk. Better than another 10 floppies. Also, I would hope that all .ARC, .ZOO, .LZH and other compressed files would be extracted/expanded for use right off the CD where possible. I would also like to see most programs being able to run right from the disk where possible. On the frequency: If a cost of $25 is reasonable, I think there would be enough standing orders to put out a new CD every ten Floppies worth. However, if Fred gets flooded with submissions, I would hope he would wait until the flood was cleared up. I've noticed him put out 30 floppies in a month or so. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Robert M. Gerber UUCP: ...!decwrl!oldjon.enet!gerber INET: gerber@oldjon.enet.dec.com Any opinions represented here are definetly not those of my employer. Come to think of it, they may not be mine either!
josef@augs.ccs.imp.com (Josef Egloff) (08/09/90)
nice idea, a cd with all amigalibdisks! ok, let's collect and buy a cd drive for fred ;-) (and me and all others). i think that a cd drive is very expensive at this time (please correct me if i'm wrong) and no one buys a cd drive to read the new collection of all amigalibdisks! cu josef -- < Josef Egloff | USENET: josef@augs.ccs.imp.com > < Pfaffnernweg 19 | PATH: impch!accsys!augs!josef > < CH - 4852 Rothrist | CBMNET: cbmswi!augs1!jegloff > < Switzerland | AUGS: as SYSOP (acc #1) >
jmeissen@oregon.oacis.org ( Staff OACIS) (08/09/90)
In article <1962@engage.enet.dec.com> gerber@oldjon.enet.dec.com writes: >On Cost of a Fish CD: > >One of the previous postings quoted the setup for pressing at about $3000 and if >I remember correctly, $5 a disk for pressing. All that Fred would have to do is As my wife is involved with a CD-ROM publisher, I can fairly confidently say that it only costs about $2,000 to master a CD-ROM (maybe a little less), and that production runs $1 to $2 per disk. >get 500 or more preorders for the disk and he >could charge $25 a disk to cover all costs. Each run after the initial >would require about 200 disks per batch to keep the costs down. I think >that we could find many more than 500 people to buy such a disk. The hangup is not so much mastering, but stuffing (documentation), packing, and shipping hundreds of these (I know I won't do it for free) and the fact that NO ONE I know of has a CD-ROM player for an Amiga (well, except Joanne Dow, but you expect her to have one of everything). I think $25 would be fair as a minimum price. If CD-ROM drives were to suddenly become available for the Amiga I might even be willing to do the production and distribution myself for that amount :-). -- John Meissen .............................. Oregon Advanced Computing Institute jmeissen@oacis.org (Internet) | "That's the remarkable thing about life; ..!sequent!oacis!jmeissen (UUCP) | things are never so bad that they can't jmeissen (BIX) | get worse." - Calvin & Hobbes
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (08/09/90)
In <josef.10132@augs.ccs.imp.com>, josef@augs.ccs.imp.com (Josef Egloff) writes: >nice idea, a cd with all amigalibdisks! ok, let's collect and buy a >cd drive for fred ;-) (and me and all others). i think that a cd drive >is very expensive at this time (please correct me if i'm wrong) and no >one buys a cd drive to read the new collection of all amigalibdisks! Well, it's a sure bet nobody buys a CD-ROM drive to _write_ CD-ROMs. I would buy a CD-ROM drive if an indexed Fish disk collection were available. No question. -larry -- Sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (08/17/90)
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: > >I would buy a CD-ROM drive if an indexed Fish disk collection were available. >No question. > As would I, if it were available at $500 for the drive and $25 for the collection disk; that's just too good a price for all that software and those demos to bypass. I think a new release every ten FF disks is a bit much, though, probably every 50 would do? I suspect that there would still be _lots_ of work to do to make this CD-ROM be really useful "as is", since right now there is lots of stuff that 1) expects to see some particular disk name from which to access its auxiliary files or 2) expects to write on the disk from which it is run, and 3) other stuff I haven't thought of. Of course, just copying from the CD-ROM onto a disk with the proper name would work OK, but a lot of the convenience is lost. Nobody (that I've seen, I joined this thread 15 or so articles back) has mentioned one of the major advantages: CD-ROMs, with a little care, are nearly immortal, as opposed to floppies, which die a lot quicker than the 40 hours spinning on a single track their specs suggest they should endure. By the way, before we all put these big workloads on Fred, who has a job to work at and a life to lead besides collecting stuff onto disks for us, has anybody asked him if he's willing/able/interested? This isn't the first "wouldn't it be great if Fred would just ..." thread that has run on this long in this newsgroup without his concurrance this year. I'd like to see CBM task this job to someone, and a similar one to gather _all_ the Badge Killer Demo _entries_ (not just winners) onto a CD-ROM, and put each out as a promo for the Amiga (not just for the CDTV toy), at a "collected freeware" price, so we could all be showing our friends all this neat stuff the Amiga does so they'd run right out and buy their own Amiga 3000s. [Great sales idea, CBM. IS ANYBODY LISTENING? Why do we keep having to ask that? There should be somebody from Commodore sales mining the net for sales ideas as a full time job, we shouldn't have to bully them into noticing this kind of stuff. Where else do you get this much free and willing assistance? There should be someone from CBM management doing the same, to keep track of what CBM is (perceived to be) doing wrong, and follow up on it back at the shop to make things better, from the lousy support in Australia to the documentation bloopers right here at home to the incredible number of trashed harddrive reports that indicate the file system still needs either a lot of work or a world class self repair utility running constantly in the background.] {Finally made a BADGE meeting, didn't introduce myself to anyone, but I had to sign a release to SLAC for being on their property and hand it to Mike Meyers, so I may have blown my cover anyway.} Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>
utoddl@uncecs.edu (Todd M. Lewis) (08/17/90)
In article <1990Aug17.091116.20242@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >[Great sales idea, CBM. IS ANYBODY LISTENING? Why do we keep having to > ask that? There should be somebody from Commodore sales mining the net > for sales ideas as a full time job, we shouldn't have to bully them into First, let me assure you the folks at C= notice what goes across the net. They can't (and shouldn't) jump every time somebody says "frog" but they do keep an ear out for good ideas. Having the entire Fish Disk library on CD-ROM is a good idea. Having it come from Commodore is not. You see, if a company releases a disk with their logo on it, no amount of explaining is going to satisfy the new user who just bought the thing and is trying to make it work. Things like "that hasn't worked since 1.1" and "it doesn't free all its resources but it is a good example of mumblephrump so that's why it's there" won't cut it in the consumer market. This one will be extremely popular: "We know it crashes your system but it simply has to be there for historical reasons." Unfortunately, too much of the stuff on the Fish Disk require such disclaimers. You and I are more understanding because we have written our share of bugs over the years, but to put them on a CD with the red and blue chicken-head may be just short of wise. I can't imagine how you could put enough disclaimers on the package. All this considered, there are several, even many selections on the Fish Disks which are worth including on a Commodore-endorsed CD. There are also several items the distribution of which is restricted to the FF library-- it isn't at all clear if they could be included in a CD from some source other than Our Man Fish. I would like to see the Fish Disks on CD, but the reputation of C= is only as good as it's products, and some of the library contents would cause problems in that area if C= were to produce such a CD. _____ | Todd M. Lewis Disclaimer: If you want my employer's ||\/| utoddl@ecsvax.uncecs.edu ideas, you'll have to || || utoddl@ecsvax.bitnet, @unc.bitnet _buy_ them. | || utoddl@next1.mscre.unc.edu |___ ("Prgrms wtht cmmnts r lk sntncs wtht vwls." --TML)
janhen@sci.kun.nl (Jan Hendrikx) (08/22/90)
In article <1990Aug17.141507.12721@uncecs.edu> utoddl@uncecs.edu (Todd M. Lewis) writes: [about buggy programs on the Fish disks] >I can't imagine how you could put enough disclaimers on the package. I think that is just a problem for lawsuit-happy Americans. A few simple words like 'this may or may not work for you' should suffice. Everybody who uses a computer can be expected to be able to read. Unfortunately, many people just don't do it, but that is their problem. -Olaf Seibert
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (08/24/90)
janhen@sci.kun.nl (Jan Hendrikx) writes: >In article <1990Aug17.141507.12721@uncecs.edu> utoddl@uncecs.edu (Todd M. Lewis) writes: >[about buggy programs on the Fish disks] >>I can't imagine how you could put enough disclaimers on the package. >I think that is just a problem for lawsuit-happy Americans. A few >simple words like 'this may or may not work for you' should suffice. The problem is not lawsuits, I doubt that anyone would spend the money and effort to sue because some Freeware program did not work. The problem is one of image. A lot of buggy programs put out officially by CBM is just inviting comments by CBM detractors who will point at the disk and say "See, CBM is not a *real* computer company, they can't even put out software that works" -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash