billd@crash.cts.com (Bill D'Camp) (03/17/88)
[]
A couple of weeks ago I posted a message about problems with
a bridgeboard and hard drive. The few responses focused on
the fact that I was able to use the bridgeboard on a A500 or A1000,
and ignored the questions. So I will ask this one again.
Will the Fast File System (FFS) handle bad blocks, not those found
during formatting, those that occur as the drive gets used (and abused).
The present file system gives up and tells you to use diskdoctor,
there must be a better solution than that.
Any ideas? Thanks.
--
_ /| Fundamentally Oral Bill
\`o_O' UUCP: {akqua,hplabs!hp-sdd,sdcsvax,nosc}crash!billd
( ) Aachk! Phft! ARPA: crash!billd@nosc.mil
U INET: billd@crash.CTS.COM
DevWare, Inc. Software Publishers for the Amigapage@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (03/18/88)
billd@crash.cts.com (Bill D'Camp) wrote:
>Will the Fast File System (FFS) handle bad blocks
The File System (ANY file system) should always assume a perfect
device. It is the driver's responsibility to remap bad blocks.
The CBM 2090 controller reserves a track (or two?) for remapping
bad blocks.
..Bob
--
Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page
"Nicaragua" is Spanish for "Vietnam."cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (03/19/88)
In article <2691@crash.cts.com> billd@crash.cts.com (Bill D'Camp) writes: > Will the Fast File System (FFS) handle bad blocks, not those found > during formatting, those that occur as the drive gets used (and abused). Executive Summary : No. Long Drawn out explanation : Well, Steve Beats will probably answer this as well but here goes anyway. The Fast File System, like the Original File System are just that, File Systems. They don't know bad blocks from nothing ok? Now the disk *driver* or the disk *mechanisim* should know about bad blocks and remap them appropriately. If you use a hard disk with a built in SCSI drive there is usually a facility for telling it that block number "n" is bad and that it should re-map it. If the drive is a bare mechanism like the ST506 type, or SMD type, then either the controller (if it's a smart one like the SDP) or the driver software need to handle the bad blocks for you. Drivers like these are not difficult to write, they simply take some planning. In the case of ST506 drives you need to set aside some capacity for the eventual bad block, and set aside an area where you will keep the currently "known" bad blocks. Then when you *first* initialize the drive, you read in the list of bad blocks from this known place and then check every subsequent IO request to see if it wants to use one of the bad ones, and if so substitute one of the new ones. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
steveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Steve Beats) (03/22/88)
In article <46075@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <2691@crash.cts.com> billd@crash.cts.com (Bill D'Camp) writes: >> Will the Fast File System (FFS) handle bad blocks, not those found >> during formatting, those that occur as the drive gets used (and abused). > >Executive Summary : No. > >Long Drawn out explanation : >Well, Steve Beats will probably answer this as well but here goes anyway. Nope, you did it so eloquently that I don't need to. I'm all computered out from Hanover anyway, and I NEVER want to see another German beer. Steve
billd@crash.cts.com (Bill D'Camp) (03/25/88)
In article <46075@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <2691@crash.cts.com> billd@crash.cts.com (Bill D'Camp) writes: >> Will the Fast File System (FFS) handle bad blocks, not those found >> during formatting, those that occur as the drive gets used (and abused). > >Executive Summary : No. > >Long Drawn out explanation : >Well, Steve Beats will probably answer this as well but here goes anyway. >The Fast File System, like the Original File System are just that, File >Systems. They don't know bad blocks from nothing ok? Now the disk *driver* >or the disk *mechanisim* should know about bad blocks and remap them >appropriately. Sorry, actually I guess I thought there would be changes in the driver because of the FFS (although, as I think about it I don't know why I would have thought that) changes. I guess what I really want to know is whether anyone else is having problems with sharing devices through Janus? The drive which I have set up as an Amiga partition formats fine, but gets errors from the disk validator. Does that give a better picture of whats happening? I don't really want to rewrite the Janus driver, nor do I think it is necessary. According to the documentation with the Bridgeboard there is no need to set up a separate mountlist entry for Janus partitions, whats not clear is whether or not this is still true when each partition is a separate physical device. >--Chuck McManis -- _ /| Fundamentally Oral Bill \`o_O' UUCP: {akqua,hplabs!hp-sdd,sdcsvax,nosc}crash!billd ( ) Aachk! Phft! ARPA: crash!billd@nosc.mil U INET: billd@crash.CTS.COM DevWare, Inc. Software Publishers for the Amiga
mrr@amanpt1.zone1.com (Mark Rinfret) (03/25/88)
In article <3493@cbmvax.UUCP>, steveb@cbmvax.UUCP (Steve Beats) writes: > > Nope, you did it so eloquently that I don't need to. I'm all computered out > from Hanover anyway, and I NEVER want to see another German beer. ????? You CAN'T be serious! > > Steve Noch ein bier, bitte! Mark -- < Mark R. Rinfret, mrr@amanpt1.ZONE1.COM | ...rayssd!galaxia!amanpt1!mrr > < Aquidneck Management Associates Home: 401-846-7639 > < 6 John Clarke Road Work: 401-849-8900 x56 > < Middletown, RI 02840 "If I just had a little more time...">
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (03/26/88)
In article <2728@crash.cts.com| billd@crash.CTS.COM (Bill D'Camp) writes: |Sorry, actually I guess I thought there would be changes in the driver because |of the FFS (although, as I think about it I don't know why I would have thought |that) changes. I guess what I really want to know is whether anyone else is |having problems with sharing devices through Janus? The drive which I have |set up as an Amiga partition formats fine, but gets errors from the disk |validator. Does that give a better picture of whats happening? |I don't really want to rewrite the Janus driver, nor do I think it is |necessary. According to the documentation with the Bridgeboard there is |no need to set up a separate mountlist entry for Janus partitions, whats not |clear is whether or not this is still true when each partition is a separate |physical device. I don't know if this is related to your problems with validating the hard disk, but the last issue of AMigaWorld explains how to properly set up a virtualdisk on the Amiga HD with JDISK.SYS and the JLINK command. The solution to not have validation problems when rebooting, is to conclude your session with running JLINK with the /U switch to "unlink" the virtual disk file. If one doesn't do that, the Amiga file that keeps track of the PC virtual disk will not have been closed, and therefore will be in a screwed up state. -- Marco Papa -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Diga!" -- Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (03/28/88)
In article <7881@oberon.USC.EDU> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >-- Marco Papa >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >uucp:...!pollux!papa BIX:papa ARPAnet:pollux!papa@oberon.usc.edu > > "There's Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Diga!" -- Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= I hate to pop your bubble, Marco, but that joke isn't mine. I got it from a guy named Rick Unland, from the L.A. basin. He's had a lot of dealings with Aegis, evidently.... _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape ihnp4!ptsfa -\ \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: dual ---> !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
jea@merlin.cvs.rochester.edu (Joanne Albano) (09/14/89)
To the individual that was having Quantum problems.
Mac people here claim that the Mac II's came with Quantums
until significant numbers of the machines experienced
drive problems, Now Mac's ship with Sony disks.
Along the same line.... Could someone report on their
FastTrack by Xetec? It got rave reviews in AW. Apparently
Xetec also has a model for the A1000. Is this the optimum
solution for A1000 hosted hard drives?
Joanne Albano, Center for Visual Science (716) 275-3055
Room 256 Meliora Hall, Univ. of Rochester, Rochester NY 14627
UUCP: {rutgers,allegra,decvax}!rochester!ur-cvsvax!jea
INTERNET: jea@snipe.cvs.rochester.edutlbaltad@pacengr.UUCP (Tim Baltad) (09/17/89)
Unless I am mistaken, the Sony drive was pulled off the US market, and the Quantums are back in the Macs. Also according to my info quality had nothing to do with the change, it was $$$. IMO the Quantums are the best value low capacity HD on the market. BTW has anyone put a Seimens 383 meg online to Amy using a 2090? Tim
rar@auc.UUCP (Rodney Ricks) (09/20/89)
In article <277@pacengr.UUCP> tlbaltad@pacengr.UUCP (Tim Baltad) writes: > >Unless I am mistaken, the Sony drive was pulled off the US market, and >the Quantums are back in the Macs. Also according to my info quality >had nothing to do with the change, it was $$$. According to the September 18, 1989 issue of InfoWorld (p.114), in the "Notes From the Field" rumors section (quoted without permission), it states that "... Apple has stopped building the Mac IIcx until it solves serious problems on the Quantum 40- and 80-megabyte drives. It seems the grease Quantum is putting on the actuators isn't up to snuff and, upon parking (they're self-parking drives), they freeze in place." Once again, this is in the RUMORS section in the magazine, so take it with a grain of salt. >IMO the Quantums are the best value low capacity HD on the market. Same here, unless this rumor is true, and unless the problem exists with Amigas as well. Oh well. I was planning on getting a Quantum 40 megabyte drive and a Microbotics Hardframe controller for my Amiga 2000. It looks like there may be problems with both of them. >Tim -- "We may have come over here in different ships, but we're all in the same boat now." -- Jesse Jackson Rodney Ricks, Atlanta University Center Computation Center
nsw@cbnewsm.ATT.COM (Neil Weinstock) (09/21/89)
In article <32282@auc.UUCP> rar@auc.UUCP (Rodney Ricks) writes: [ ... ] >According to the September 18, 1989 issue of InfoWorld (p.114), in the >"Notes From the Field" rumors section (quoted without permission), it >states that "... Apple has stopped building the Mac IIcx until it solves >serious problems on the Quantum 40- and 80-megabyte drives. It seems >the grease Quantum is putting on the actuators isn't up to snuff and, >upon parking (they're self-parking drives), they freeze in place." Stiction (or an excellent stiction-like substitute) strikes again! Nice timing. Just the other day I found my roommate banging on the side of his Mac II trying to get it to boot. Seems the disk drive wouldn't spin up. "What kind of drive is it?" "Quantum." So there you have it, a statistical sampling size of one. In the meantime, my 2000 chugs along marvelously with a Seagate ST-157N. Of course, I never turn my Amiga off. Of course, that's *why* I never turn it off. :-\ ________________ __________________ ____________________________ //// \\// \\// \\\\ \\\\ Neil Weinstock //\\ att!cord!nsw or //\\ "Oh dear, now I shall have //// //// AT&T Bell Labs \\// nsw@cord.att.com \\// to create more Martians." \\\\ \\\\________________//\\__________________//\\____________________________////
rar@auc.UUCP (Rodney Ricks) (09/23/89)
In article <4388@cbnewsm.ATT.COM> nsw@cbnewsm.ATT.COM (Neil Weinstock) writes: >In article <32282@auc.UUCP> rar@auc.UUCP (Rodney Ricks) writes: >[ ... ] >>... "... Apple has stopped building the Mac IIcx until it solves >>serious problems on the Quantum 40- and 80-megabyte drives. It seems >>the grease Quantum is putting on the actuators isn't up to snuff and, >>upon parking (they're self-parking drives), they freeze in place." > > Just the other day I found my roommate banging on the side of his >Mac II trying to get it to boot. Seems the disk drive wouldn't spin up. >"What kind of drive is it?" "Quantum." > I've also heard about other Mac users having trouble with the Quantum drives, but one thing has made me curious. I haven't heard of any Amiga users having this particular problem with the Quantum drives. Have any Amiga users had this problem with the Quantum drives? I was wondering if it really is a Quantum drive problem, or could it be a problem with the interaction between Mac SCSI controllers and the Quantum drive. Could the Mac be doing something that the Amiga isn't? Could the Amiga be doing something that the Mac isn't? I would LOVE to have a HardFrame / Quantum 40 Meg drive combination, but not if its going to lock up on me! > ________________ __________________ ____________________________ >//// \\// \\// \\\\ >\\\\ Neil Weinstock //\\ att!cord!nsw or //\\ "Oh dear, now I shall have //// >//// AT&T Bell Labs \\// nsw@cord.att.com \\// to create more Martians." \\\\ >\\\\________________//\\__________________//\\____________________________//// -- "We may have come over here in different ships, but we're all in the same boat now." -- Jesse Jackson Rodney Ricks, Morehouse Software Group
srp@modcomp.UUCP (Steve Pietrowicz) (09/24/89)
in article <32286@auc.UUCP>, rar@auc.UUCP (Rodney Ricks) says:
] if it really is a Quantum drive problem, or could it be a problem with the
] interaction between Mac SCSI controllers and the Quantum drive. Could the
] Mac be doing something that the Amiga isn't? Could the Amiga be doing
] something that the Mac isn't?
My guess would be it's really the Mac SCSI controllers that can't handle it.
I've got a Quantum in the 2000 at home, another in a 2000 at work, and I've
used quite a few other Quantums.....never had a problem.
Let 'em bash Quantums.....they'll just have to run with slower drives. :-)
--
Stephen R. Pietrowicz UUCP: ...!uunet!modcomp!srp CIS: 73047,2313leed@cell.mot.COM (Dwight Lee) (09/26/89)
I've used two Amiga 2000's with GVP hardcards, Quantum 40M drives on them. One of the Amigas wasn't used very much. The other was used heavily for software development. Right now these Amigas are about one year old. Within the past six weeks, both of them have had trouble booting from the hard drives. I don't believe that this is a coincidence. After reading the recent InfoWorld article about Apple's alleged problems with the same type of hard drive, I suspect I've learned what the problem is. Other than this HELLISHLY ANNOYING problem, which manifests every two weeks or so now, the drives have worked beautifully. The problem seems to go away if you calm down and pray overnight. Dwight Lee Disclaimer: These words are my own, not Motorola's. Your mileage may vary. UUCP: ...!uunet!motcid!leed Har: "Time like perfume. It is of the essence."
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (09/28/89)
We have had problems with Quantum drives of vaious sizes for the last two years. The drives were purchased from a wide enough variety of sources and at different times, so as to preclude the possibility that we were burned by one bad manufacturing run. I guess that is what Quantum gets for pushing the envelope. I was suspicious that Quantum's drives had quite a bit faster seek times than other drives in a similar price bracket. As maligned as Seagate drives are, we've had only a few failures out of several hundred ST 225, 238 and 251-xx drives in use. Out of just a handful of Quantums we've had about 1/2 of them go bad. The problem with the Quantums seems to be 'stiction'. It looks like the heads stick to the platter when the drive spins down, and thus prevents the actuator from getting out of the park position when power is re-applied. Seagate has had some stiction problems, as well as have other manufacturers. It looks like everybody but Quantum figured out how to fix the bug. Bill
flutter@vtcc1.cc.vt.edu (Lloyd Eldred) (09/02/90)
I have an Amiga 1000 with a MicroBotics StarDrive SCSI interface, and a
Seagate ST-277N-1 hard drive (65 meg). A couple of hours ago, the machine
locked up while PageStream was attempting to writing a postscript file
to the disk. After reboot, the system was unable to validate the hard
drive. I've tried a complete power down, but things are screwed.
The exact error message includes: "key 93765 already set" in the
system requestor. I can read from the disk just fine, but it won't let
me write. Thus, I could do a complete backup and reformat. Obviously, I'd
prefer a more simple solution.
Does anyone understand this error message and have a suggested solution?
Feel free to Email me at the above address or post here, whatever seems
appropriate. (I have no idea if this is a generic problem or not). I do
have FTPing abilities if there is a PD solution to the problem out there.
Thanks in advance -- Lloyd Eldred