joshua@csustan.csustan.edu (09/05/90)
[Warning: EXTREMEMLY Long, possibly boring story follows about an individual
experience with Lattice (Now SAS) C for the Amiga...]
With all the current interest in SAS/C 5.1, I thought I'd relate the
following story of my experiences with the upgrade...
I bought Lattice C back in '85, when you really had to know your stuff to
get it going. There were no installation scripts to set things up, you
just copied things over, and figured out where you wanted them. Of course,
in those days, the whole distribution fit on one floppy disk [mull that
one over, friends and neighbors!] I received V3.02 of the compiler,
along with the white 8.5" x 11" paperback book, that was presented in
the style of all the other AmigaDOS Programmer's References, and an errata
sheet (which was pretty long, and talked about some pretty scary bugs).
When 3.03 came out, it was a VERY minor upgrade, it's major noticable
features being that (A) it had a red disk instead of a blue one, and
(B) a different errata page. The upgrade was pretty minor, and didn't
constitute much in the way of an "upgrade," as it seemed to be bug
fixes. [Maybe I'm wrong, I started using 3.03 real quick, so I may be
attributing some of it's functionality to 3.02].
Much time later, in '87 or '88, I can't recall for sure at this point, I
got an update notice in the mail from Lattice for the 4.0 release of the
compiler. It was priced at $75, and I figured that at that price, it
was no way to lose (and many ways gained!). Heck, I'd just shelled out
$99 for a student version of [Boo! Hiss!] Borland Turbo C for a class I
was taking that I haven't to this day used for anything other than
looking at the editor, and failing to get MicroCalc to compile (which I
remember from my CP/M Turbo Pascal days). I sent off my credit card
number, along with a note on a 3" x 5" card, and forgot about it.
I was almost shocked about 3 weeks later when a UPS package was sitting on
my doorstep from Lattice, Inc., with a brand-new update card inside
(I was now officially registered, with official documentation to back
it up! Wowza.) I had frankly expected a form letter requesting more
information or something, but here it was! The incredible part was
the disk count. I couldn't believe that 4 (FOUR!) 880K disks were
required to operate a C compiler. Turns out, they weren't. Not really.
Those silly people at Lattice had filled up the disks with alternate link
libraries! And dual sets of headers, some compacted to take less space.
AND THEN, those :-) silly cretins :-) had wasted time putting valuable
third-party and FR software on the 4th disk! Kermit, ported to the Amiga.
PopCLI-III (written by John Toebes, a Lattice C maintainer, and the
original porter of Hack to the Amiga). Info on ConMan... They added more
example code, and an excerpt from a Magazine article John wrote on
writing memory-conservative Amiga programs.
...and there I sat, for the longest time. News of 5.0x version reached
me, and I ignored them. EVEN WITH a source-level debugger, and a profiler,
and a global optimizer having been added, I couldn't bring myself to
upgrade ($75 again, something I thought well worth it, I just couldn't
afford it) to the new version. They even added the compiler companion
package (build, extract, grep, etc.) that they had sold for $40 or so
when I got 4.0 to the deal! Not to mention their seperate program editor
package, LSE, which I believe went for 150 bucks in 3.02/3.03 days.
Ahem, which reminds me. 3.1 came and went, and I skipped that one too.
I have to be fair, and say that some of the 4.0 discoveries I'd made may
have been in there in 3.1, but I missed out on them until I did the 4.0
upgrade.
...and then I read about 5.1's release. Now much more than a simple compiler
package, it has a fully supposed assembly development environment (It seemed
like an afterthought in 3.1). It has integrated edit-compile-error-edit
cycles, either through the included LSE editor, or with (forgive me if I
get this wrong, but is it...) CEDPro. It has a debugger, and a profiler, and
a global optimizer, an object module librarian and a plethora of other
requisite utilities. It has the 2.0 include files, and the 2.0 link library.
It now takes up SIX disks, and the FD/extra software isn't even on there any
more! They don't even ship the compacted header files with the package, since
there wouldn't be room on 6 disks.
I originally called the SAS/C phone number w/Amiga extension (which I got
from the Net -- Thanks guys!) JUST to inquire about the 4.0->5.1 upgrade
cost, since the article that I read here didn't give it, and said to call
them for information. I talked to a very nice lady on the other end
who ended up guiding me into a purchase on the spot. I don't mind. It
was only $100 for the upgrade -- a wholly pleasant surprise that was
definitely a factor in my purchasing THEN, rather than in 3 more years.
She took my update number from my update card, my name and address, and told
me it would be going out the following Tuesday. (This was on Aug 17 -- the
following Tuesday was the 21st). I wasn't quite sure what to think when she
then ended the phone call w/o discussing payment options. One week to the
day following the phone call (on the 28th) I called back, and got another
very nice lady, Debbie. I asked her where my order might be, since they'd
supposedly sent it out on the 21st, and I figured UPS could make it to me
in a week. That is where [this is where the important info that YOU might
be interested in, F&N, so pay attention!] she proceeded to tell me that
they were very regretful to be in a state of the {dreaded} back-order! They
had 500 units that had either gone out, or were waiting (I missed which),
and that might have been reason for the delay. She came back later with
"Oh! You're one of the lucky ones! Your's went out on Tuesday, the 21st,
and should be arrived soon!" I of course didn't believe her -- why get it
out on time? No one else does. I asked her how I going to be paying for
the package anyway (two of my worries had been that they'd charged me on
my card from old info and it may have failed, or that she didn't enter
the order originally after realizing I'd gotten off the phone w/o supplying
a card number). I was surprised to learn that I was being treated as
a respectible business, and had been given Net-30 terms, after which she
listed any of a number of ways for me to pay off the debt, including with
a credit card over the phone.
I got off the phone with her w/o having her correct my address (NO Apt. #),
since she had said it was already off and running with UPS. 3 days later,
on Friday, it was on my kitchen counter just BEGGING to be opened.
There WAS something wrong, however. The package appeared suspiciously THIN
for an upgrade that I'd read HERE would include FULL new manuals. Upon
opening my new booty, my suspicion grew. It included 6 disks in a license
envelope (which I still don't agree with -- but everyone uses them anyway
-- if they'd only listen to me! :-)), and a package of title pages for
a three ring binder and a set of "What's New in 5.1" type pages. (Plus
info on compiling from Workbench).
I called them the next day (Saturday, the 1st). They're not open on
Saturdays, so I wasted a call to North Carolina -- My fault.
I waited until Today (Tuesday, September 4, 1990) to give them a call.
Suprisingly, I got Debbie again after to hold-time, and told her my
problem. "You don't have a binder?", she asked. "No, I have the spiral
manual from 4.0. Without a new binder, I don't have instructions on the
debugger, or any of that stuff." "You should have a binder, one way or
the other. Let me ask the technical assistance people what's up, and call
you back ok?" she asked me. I gave my name and number, and waited. (finally,
THEY call me!)
It took awhile. I'd apparently asked a rare question. When she called back,
she updated me on the situation (why I'd called her -- who, in general
terms, she'd talked to), and told me that " a mistake had been made. Everyone
who was getting the wrong update in the 5.1 packages was getting a seperate
mailing of the correct docs (at their expense -- total responsibility
taken by them), and that they went out a week ago. Again, it's back to
any day now. [I missed a ", forgive please] To tell you the truth, I
happen to believe her.
Since it was her dime, I asked her "What about my upgrade card? I got one
with 4.0, and it proves I have the product up to version X. Do I get a new
one?" She asked if I wanted to go to hold again, while she consulted with
her supervisor. :-) She comes back on line with "Sir, I'm glad you've
asked that question. We've only had the distribution responsibilities
for a little while now, and new things are coming up. We didn't know about
the cards." She told me that 'for sure' they would do a full computer run,
assuring that everyone "in the computer" was updated to proper status as to
which version had been purchased. The info will be available to each operator
by EITHER account number OR name, so phone orders won't require cards anyway.
She told me that it is "under consideration" whether to continue to
distribute cards to owners or not. They will get them in the mail with no
fanfare if it happens, meanwhile, figure on their records being right.
Considering I didn't need my card for THIS update, other than my account number
off it (which I could have written on anything - and which they presumably
verified by computer anyway), this doesn't worry me any.
I asked my third and final question, "what about educational discounts?"
The word here is that you should be a student, or someone working at
a university (especially in a classroom situation where the class buys
the compiler in large lots -- although this isn't a prerequisite). The
discount is 50%, and "at this time" does not apply to upgrade costs. I
took this to mean that since I'd paid full for the package in the first place,
I couldn't become eligible for the upgrade now. I don't think it matters --
to me, $100 is WELL worth the cost of this upgrade.
Well, now I have my 5.1, but no docs to work with on most of the package;
since it's grown so much since 4.0. I have to say that I'm VERY impressed
with everything about it. being a 1000 owner, it's really nice to see 2.0
style icons and requestors (in the options setting program, callable for
compiling from workbench). The compile-from-workbench is the neatest
thing about it. I had been prepared to spend several evenings setting up
the disks to run just right out of a rad:disk, getting includes set-up, and
then finally trying to compiler something. INSTEAD, I looked at disk 1
from Workbench, ran the SASCSETUP program, and told it to set up a new
project for me in RAD:. It copies over the BUILD, LSE, DEBUG, and PREFS
icons to your project drawer, and then it's all ready. I just copied the
sources for spiders and crabs into the drawer, clicked on BUILD, and LMK
put up a window for output, and started building away. I decided that I
didn't want the program to crash (as it usually does on my non-PAL machine),
so I brought up LSE, and read in the spiders.c program. I change a few
things, and rewrote it out, and then looked the icon that was created.
It (as in LSE) looks at the extension on the file(s) you edit, and give
it appropriate icons for each type. Slick.
The other thing I've done with it is set it up to compile the PLPLOT
libraries in ram:. This too works nearly effortlessly, with the disks
AS distributed. Tired of a little disk swapping with two drives, I
executed the install_floppy_1M script, and it created a new disks with the
common libraries and headers (compacted in the process) on it. Very nice.
I suppose that a little summary is in order, since this was so long.
1) $100 to ME isn't a bad price. $40 to 5.x owners is even better.
I have seen the future of GOOD Amiga software. "Comedy, thy
name is Krusty. Good Amiga software of the future, thy name
is SAS/C [and AmigaDOS 2.0] ;-)"
2) My upgrade card claims that any upgrades while the product is under
warranty that come out, are FREE to the purchaser.
o SAS didn't know right away about my card, so they may not be
versed on this point.
o The people there have been to me very helpful, and willing to
listen to complaint and suggestion. Intelligent discourse with
them will more likely than not result in BOTH parties ending up
happier.
o They DO have a mailbox, if you really want to get your point across.
Again, they are trying the best they can to be accomodating.
3) The SAS people seem to me to be new to the distribution game to single
end users, IMHO. They also seem to be trying as hard as possible
to make it work, and work well. They don't HAVE the reputation of
a company like Commodore to live down, and they SHOULDN'T. From
everything I've heard, SAS Institute is VERY well respected, and they
are handling themselves very well, again, INHO.
4) I couldn't be happier with the situation. I may have had to call them
4 times to get it straightened out in my own mind -- but that's
what it comes down to. They were doing everything right every
step, I just needed reassurance in the business world of today.
5) As I ended my conversation today, I made a point of telling Debbie that
ALTHOUGH I made the calls, and although all answers weren't readily
available at hand, I full appreciate the job they're doing there.
It has to do with why I posted this. I read the bad things about
Lattice/SAS, and almost found myself believing them, even though
I've been quite happy with the Lattice compiler since day 1.
I told her that they were and are doing a great job.
And I MEANT it.
Joshua Delahunty
joshua@altair.csustan.edu
Amiga owner since 1985
NetHack development team member, VMS NetHack
Full-time student on the 10-year to BS plan.
P.S. An interesting sidenote on the name SAS/C. When I called the institute
Morning, the phone recording ("Stay on the line for an operator"-type)
said something like "Thank for you calling SAS Institute." This
is evidence that we may call SAS/C 'SASSY', if we so choose. Of
course, later in conversation, Debbie referred to it as
"The S-A-S Amiga compiler Five Point One Oh".
The debate rages on. Sigh.