BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (09/06/90)
I opened the school newspaper today and, lo and behold what did I see?
Well, I saw a total of two full pages of advertizements for the Macintosh,
but there was also a single full-page ad for the Amiga. I don't know how
much good it will do for precisely the reasons I stated in my previous
message, but it is a fair start.
I have one really BIG peeve with this ad. It says: "Stop by your
Campus Authorized Amiga Dealer and get your hands on the future of
computing." What campus Amiga dealer? The nearest dealer is 35 miles
off-campus!!!
Like I said, this is a fair start, but until Commodore establishes a
good Amiga dealer on-campus or nearby, any future ads will be wasted money.
With the overwhelming on-campus support that Apple and IBM offer, there is
no way that Commodore is going to make any penetration of significance
with the nearest dealer 35 miles away.
-MB-diamond@cbmvax.commodore.com (Howard Diamond - Ed Marketing) (09/07/90)
In article <29633@nigel.ee.udel.edu> BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > > I opened the school newspaper today and, lo and behold what did I see? >Well, I saw a total of two full pages of advertizements for the Macintosh, >but there was also a single full-page ad for the Amiga. I don't know how >much good it will do for precisely the reasons I stated in my previous >message, but it is a fair start. > > I have one really BIG peeve with this ad. It says: "Stop by your >Campus Authorized Amiga Dealer and get your hands on the future of >computing." What campus Amiga dealer? The nearest dealer is 35 miles >off-campus!!! > > Like I said, this is a fair start, but until Commodore establishes a >good Amiga dealer on-campus or nearby, any future ads will be wasted money. >With the overwhelming on-campus support that Apple and IBM offer, there is >no way that Commodore is going to make any penetration of significance >with the nearest dealer 35 miles away. > > > -MB- Gee, maybe that means Commodore is talking to your school about incorporating the Commodore Education program as a part of their on-campus resale program. Or does the fact that you don't know about it mean it isn't happening??? Sorry for the tone, but the truth is that there have been a series of major presentations on your campus in the last few months by the new Education Sales group, showing key faculty and administrators Amiga technology and its capabilities. The response has been quite positive, and we are agressively pursuing a series of joint programs. I have no interest in wasting scarce resources either. -- Howard S. Diamond Director of Education, Commodore Business Machines 1200 Wilson Drive West Chester, Pa, 19380 diamond@cbmvax.commodore.com 215-431-9142 MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND!! AMIGA!
urjlew@uncecs.edu (Rostyk Lewyckyj) (09/07/90)
In article <14243@cbmvax.commodore.com>, diamond@cbmvax.commodore.com (Howard Diamond - Ed Marketing) writes: > In article <29633@nigel.ee.udel.edu> BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > > > > I have one really BIG peeve with this ad. It says: "Stop by your > >Campus Authorized Amiga Dealer and get your hands on the future of > >computing." What campus Amiga dealer? The nearest dealer is 35 miles > >off-campus!!! > > > > Like I said, this is a fair start, but until Commodore establishes a > >good Amiga dealer on-campus or nearby, any future ads will be wasted money. > > Gee, maybe that means Commodore is talking to your school about incorporating > the Commodore Education program as a part of their on-campus resale program. > Or does the fact that you don't know about it mean it isn't happening??? > > Sorry for the tone, but the truth is that there have been a series of > major presentations on your campus in the last few months by the new Education > Sales group, showing key faculty and administrators Amiga technology and its > capabilities. The response has been quite positive, and we are agressively > pursuing a series of joint programs. > > I have no interest in wasting scarce resources either. > -- > > > Howard S. Diamond Director of Education, Commodore Business Machines > 1200 Wilson Drive West Chester, Pa, 19380 > diamond@cbmvax.commodore.com 215-431-9142 > MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND!! AMIGA! Well let me tell you about North Carolina :-| And let's start from the most recent events that I know of proceding back to ancient prehistory. Each year companies and dealers bid for the states' business, to be the supplier to the state for various kinds of items. In previous years different C= dealers have managed to get on the state contract list, thus making C= computers available for schools to purchase. This year C= decided that they would do it themselves. Well they flubbed ! As a result C= is not on state contract this year. Universities and schools will therefore have a harder time purchasing C= equipment. They will have to justify such purchases to the state purchasing office, and in this very tight budget year ... Also the dealer who has been a successful bidder before is left out in the cold, (but not because another dealer outbid him). A little over a year ago C= hired Dr. John Harrison from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill as its NEW DIRECTOR of EDUCATIONAL (Marketing?). Well at EDUCOM last fall he was picking up guests from their hotels IN A WHITE LIMO no less to take them to the C= hospitality suite where behind closed doors they were being shown the C= AMIGA "UNIX" system (at that time rumoured to be about $7000 talking price). Well Dr. Harrison is back in the area working for GLAXO, and the "UNIX" system is not out yet. Back in 85 when the A1000 was introduced and IBM and Apple were not as deeply entrenched on our campus as they are now, our Campus Bookstore tried to cut a deal with C=. But the State of North Carolina requires that all state contracts be governed by the rules of The State of North Carolina while C= was adamant that a contract with them had to be governed by the rules of The State of Pennsylvania. As a result there was no contract. For a while our bookstore subbed under a contract that had been signed somehow with the bookstore at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte NC. But that fell apart quite quickly due to poor product support and I believe problems with the contract with Charlotte. I have asked again at our bookstore and our Micro Computer Support Center about making the information about the Educational Program available. The bookstore (since they would get nothing out of it) won't do it. MSC hasn't done it, and probably won't. After all that's another whole computer system they might have to provide support for. They don't have the personnel budget for the extra staff. If they provide the information, then by implication they recommend it as an alternative, then by implication they are responsible for support. And as we here on csa all well know the Amiga has many facets that would require much support e.g. : disk problems, hardware expansion problems, printer interfacing (postscript, etc.), availability of software for mundane things like word processing, statistical analysis, bussiness graphics, spread sheets, languages other than C (BASIC? :-) The local Waldensoft which has more AMIGA software that the C= dealer where I got my A3000 only has about ten linear feet of AMIGA productivity software on display: about five paint programs, a couple of video titlers, a typing tutor and a spread sheet. They have another twenty to thirty feet of games. This compares to a couple of hundred feet of shelf space for IBM clones and APPle software. The scale is the same or worse for books. It is not just a case of more stock of the same few items for IBM or Apple or even C= 64/128. There is a larger number of titles, programs, to chose from. Anyways getting back to sales programs and state contracts. I wonder if this years C= effort again floundered on the issue of which states' rules will govern the contract. I also wonder what if anything C= will be doing about this situation. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- By the way Sept. 27 and 28 there will be a "CompuFest" at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill. The Triangle Amiga Users group (TAU) will have a table set up to show of our chosen machine. C= will not be officially represented. They did not have the scarce resources $400. to get a vendor booth. C= has promised to help us out with some loaner equipment. So come one and come all if you are in the area. And if you are a developer or publisher and would like to have us show off your productivity products. Perhaps we could arrange it. ----------------------------------------------- Reply-To: Rostyslaw Jarema Lewyckyj urjlew@ecsvax.UUCP , urjlew@unc.bitnet or urjlew@uncvm1.acs.unc.edu (ARPA,SURA,NSF etc. internet) tel. (919)-962-6501
ruslan@uncecs.edu (Robin C. LaPasha) (09/07/90)
In article <1990Sep7.020416.2170@uncecs.edu>, urjlew@uncecs.edu (Rostyk Lewyckyj) writes: > > Well let me tell you about North Carolina :-| > And let's start from the most recent events that I know of proceding > back to ancient prehistory. > Each year companies and dealers bid for the states' business, to be > the supplier to the state for various kinds of items. In previous years > different C= dealers have managed to get on the state contract list, > thus making C= computers available for schools to purchase. This year > C= decided that they would do it themselves. Well they flubbed ! > As a result C= is not on state contract this year. Universities and > schools will therefore have a harder time purchasing C= equipment. > They will have to justify such purchases to the state purchasing > office, and in this very tight budget year ... Also the dealer who > has been a successful bidder before is left out in the cold, (but > not because another dealer outbid him). Well, Rostyk has left out the fact that - guess what? - Universities didn't have state purchase contract for Amigas last year either (where K-12 != postsecondary.) So it's not "harder" now. Besides, our peculiar state contract system means that if somebody HAS a state contract on a computer, departments can NOT go to a better- cheaper-more budget stretching deal elsewhere, but must buy from the dudes with the contract. > A little over a year ago C= hired Dr. John Harrison from the University > of North Carolina at Chapel Hill as its NEW DIRECTOR of EDUCATIONAL > (Marketing?). Well at EDUCOM last fall he was picking up guests from > their hotels IN A WHITE LIMO no less to take them to the C= hospitality > suite where behind closed doors they were being shown the C= AMIGA > "UNIX" system (at that time rumoured to be about $7000 talking price). > Well Dr. Harrison is back in the area working for GLAXO, and the > "UNIX" system is not out yet. Uh, Dr. Harrison got a good job offer back here. What does that have to do with anything, UNIX included? > Back in 85 when the A1000 was introduced and IBM and Apple were not > as deeply entrenched on our campus as they are now, our Campus > Bookstore tried to cut a deal with C=. But the State of North Carolina > requires that all state contracts be governed by the rules of The > State of North Carolina while C= was adamant that a contract with them > had to be governed by the rules of The State of Pennsylvania. As a > result there was no contract. For a while our bookstore subbed under > a contract that had been signed somehow with the bookstore at the > University of North Carolina at Charlotte NC. But that fell apart > quite quickly due to poor product support and I believe problems with > the contract with Charlotte. That little "deal" with Charlotte was undercutting a GOOD local dealer (with trustworthy repair service!) in a big way. It let the UNC bookstore - whose employees could not demo the machine, much less repair it - have a demo machine, but they never quite seemed to be able to get it in stock... but I digress. > I have asked again at our bookstore and our Micro Computer Support > Center about making the information about the Educational Program > available. The bookstore (since they would get nothing out of it) > won't do it. MSC hasn't done it, and probably won't. After all that's > another whole computer system they might have to provide support for. > They don't have the personnel budget for the extra staff. If they > provide the information, then by implication they recommend it as > an alternative, then by implication they are responsible for support. That's wholly untrue. MSC has not only been completely helpful, and WITH some Amiga-capable personnel as you well know, but they DO have the Educational Discount forms and other information, delivered by yours truly. The Comp Center "newsbrief" has advertised this fact - or don't you read your own department's publications, Rostyk? [blathering about campus support and dealer shelf space deleted] > Anyways getting back to sales programs and state contracts. > I wonder if this years C= effort again floundered on the issue of which > states' rules will govern the contract. I also wonder what if anything > C= will be doing about this situation. Well, Rostyk, how would you know whether there has yet BEEN a C= effort this year, much less say that it's floundered? > -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- > > By the way Sept. 27 and 28 there will be a "CompuFest" at the > University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill. The Triangle Amiga Users > group (TAU) will have a table set up to show of our chosen machine. > C= will not be officially represented. They did not have the scarce > resources $400. to get a vendor booth. C= has promised to help us out > with some loaner equipment. So come one and come all if you are in > the area. And if you are a developer or publisher and would like to > have us show off your productivity products. Perhaps we could arrange > it. Rostyk, where did you get that idea about C= not having the bucks for a vendor booth? Tain't so. They did have some trouble getting a local dealer interested. > ----------------------------------------------- > Reply-To: Rostyslaw Jarema Lewyckyj > urjlew@ecsvax.UUCP , urjlew@unc.bitnet > or urjlew@uncvm1.acs.unc.edu (ARPA,SURA,NSF etc. internet) > tel. (919)-962-6501 > Robin LaPasha TAU Board of Directors member UNC Graduate Student -- Robin LaPasha |Keeper of the Amiga ruslan@ecsvax.uncecs.edu |Hypermedia Mailing List
diamond@cbmvax.commodore.com (Howard Diamond - Ed Marketing) (09/07/90)
In article <1990Sep7.050915.4561@uncecs.edu> ruslan@uncecs.edu (Robin C. LaPasha) writes: >In article <1990Sep7.020416.2170@uncecs.edu>, urjlew@uncecs.edu (Rostyk Lewyckyj) writes: >> >> Well let me tell you about North Carolina :-| >> And let's start from the most recent events that I know of proceding >> back to ancient prehistory. >> Each year companies and dealers bid for the states' business, to be >> the supplier to the state for various kinds of items. In previous years >> different C= dealers have managed to get on the state contract list, >> thus making C= computers available for schools to purchase. This year >> C= decided that they would do it themselves. Well they flubbed ! >> As a result C= is not on state contract this year. Universities and >> schools will therefore have a harder time purchasing C= equipment. >> They will have to justify such purchases to the state purchasing >> office, and in this very tight budget year ... Also the dealer who >> has been a successful bidder before is left out in the cold, (but >> not because another dealer outbid him). He was also totally wrong about the basis on which we were rejected. The truth is we were rejected because when we submitted our final bid, we gave the state LOWER prices than we had in the origional submission. We also have an appeal scheduled for next week. > >Well, Rostyk has left out the fact that - guess what? - Universities >didn't have state purchase contract for Amigas last year either >(where K-12 != postsecondary.) So it's not "harder" now. Besides, >our peculiar state contract system means that if somebody HAS a >state contract on a computer, departments can NOT go to a better- >cheaper-more budget stretching deal elsewhere, but must buy from >the dudes with the contract. > Even if we lose our appeal, we are being allowed to establish an alternative buying procedure. >> A little over a year ago C= hired Dr. John Harrison from the University >> of North Carolina at Chapel Hill as its NEW DIRECTOR of EDUCATIONAL >> (Marketing?). Well at EDUCOM last fall he was picking up guests from >> their hotels IN A WHITE LIMO no less to take them to the C= hospitality >> suite where behind closed doors they were being shown the C= AMIGA >> "UNIX" system (at that time rumoured to be about $7000 talking price). >> Well Dr. Harrison is back in the area working for GLAXO, and the >> "UNIX" system is not out yet. > John Harrison, who was on my staff as manager of Higher Education markets still works with us on special projects, tho as Robin noted he did return to his hometown where his family still lived to accept a great job offer at GLAXO. We miss him, and I think he misses us, but we still have a pretty strong group. I am not sure he would be thrilled at your insinuations as to why he left. Also your price info on the UNIX presentation was wrong, and we said at that time that the system would not be on the market for quite some time. It was tough to release our version of AT&T UNIX 5r4, before AT&T completed the release. >Uh, Dr. Harrison got a good job offer back here. What does that >have to do with anything, UNIX included? > >> Back in 85 when the A1000 was introduced and IBM and Apple were not >> as deeply entrenched on our campus as they are now, our Campus >> Bookstore tried to cut a deal with C=. But the State of North Carolina >> requires that all state contracts be governed by the rules of The >> State of North Carolina while C= was adamant that a contract with them >> had to be governed by the rules of The State of Pennsylvania. As a >> result there was no contract. For a while our bookstore subbed under >> a contract that had been signed somehow with the bookstore at the >> University of North Carolina at Charlotte NC. But that fell apart >> quite quickly due to poor product support and I believe problems with >> the contract with Charlotte. Hard for me to comment on something that happened years before we joined the company. >That little "deal" with Charlotte was undercutting a GOOD local >dealer (with trustworthy repair service!) in a big way. It let >the UNC bookstore - whose employees could not demo the machine, >much less repair it - have a demo machine, but they never quite >seemed to be able to get it in stock... but I digress. > >> I have asked again at our bookstore and our Micro Computer Support >> Center about making the information about the Educational Program >> available. The bookstore (since they would get nothing out of it) >> won't do it. MSC hasn't done it, and probably won't. After all that's >> another whole computer system they might have to provide support for. >> They don't have the personnel budget for the extra staff. If they >> provide the information, then by implication they recommend it as >> an alternative, then by implication they are responsible for support. > >That's wholly untrue. MSC has not only been completely helpful, >and WITH some Amiga-capable personnel as you well know, but they >DO have the Educational Discount forms and other information, >delivered by yours truly. The Comp Center "newsbrief" has >advertised this fact - or don't you read your own department's >publications, Rostyk? > >[blathering about campus support and dealer shelf space deleted] > >> Anyways getting back to sales programs and state contracts. >> I wonder if this years C= effort again floundered on the issue of which >> states' rules will govern the contract. I also wonder what if anything >> C= will be doing about this situation. See above > >Well, Rostyk, how would you know whether there has yet BEEN a C= >effort this year, much less say that it's floundered? > >> -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- >> >> By the way Sept. 27 and 28 there will be a "CompuFest" at the >> University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill. The Triangle Amiga Users >> group (TAU) will have a table set up to show of our chosen machine. >> C= will not be officially represented. They did not have the scarce >> resources $400. to get a vendor booth. C= has promised to help us out >> with some loaner equipment. So come one and come all if you are in >> the area. And if you are a developer or publisher and would like to >> have us show off your productivity products. Perhaps we could arrange >> it. > >Rostyk, where did you get that idea about C= not having the bucks >for a vendor booth? Tain't so. They did have some trouble getting >a local dealer interested. > >> ----------------------------------------------- >> Reply-To: Rostyslaw Jarema Lewyckyj >> urjlew@ecsvax.UUCP , urjlew@unc.bitnet >> or urjlew@uncvm1.acs.unc.edu (ARPA,SURA,NSF etc. internet) >> tel. (919)-962-6501 >> > > Thanks Robin >Robin LaPasha >TAU Board of Directors member >UNC Graduate Student >-- >Robin LaPasha |Keeper of the Amiga >ruslan@ecsvax.uncecs.edu |Hypermedia Mailing List -- Howard S. Diamond Director of Education, Commodore Business Machines 1200 Wilson Drive West Chester, Pa, 19380 diamond@cbmvax.commodore.com 215-431-9142 MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND!! AMIGA!
harris@shumv1.ncsu.edu (Michael Harris) (09/07/90)
When you wonder why Commodore isn't big in North Carolina you must also consider the Amiga dealers here in North Carolina. Speaking just for the central part (the area around the Research Triangle that includes North Carolina State, UNC, and Duke Universities) we have only one "Real" dealer. When I say "real" I mean a retail store with a showroom that has demo machines available for customers to view. That store is DIGITZ in Raleigh. Now, given my past experience with this store, if I were in Commodore's shoes, I wouldn't want any of my customers to go near this place in fear that their lack of professionalism tarnish the customer's image of the product. I mean this place has had *many* complaints registered with the Better Business Bureau. We have also heard complaints right here on the net. I personally liked the comment the manager gave me after I had a problem with my A1000 a year or so ago: "Let's see... have you ever bought anything here? No? I see. In that case, why don't you walk out that door and come back some day that isn't so cold and wet." Let me assure you that it was the most warm, sunny day in the history of the world. I wish Commodore would revoke their authorization! Ok, given that DIGITZ is out, where else could potential Amiga customers go for a dealer... Remember Commodore seems to like places where customers can touch and see as well as get good service. Well, I have heard of a dealer in Burlington, NC (1hr & 15 mins from Raleigh) I cannot speak for this place since I haven't been there myself, but I'm sure Commodore thinks it is a bit far to drive from Raleigh. I went to a users group in the area one time and someone described the Burlington dealer as a "hole in the wall". They also said that the staff wasn't able to answer the most basic questions about the hardware/software they were selling. Ok, so what else do we have? A small satellite office of Software City of Charlotte. Oh, but wait! They don't have a showroom... that's out. So, what's left? NOTHING Therefore I can only guess that Commodore felt that given the dealer situation in our area, the cost of pushing Amiga here wasn't worth it. And so it goes... THE FOLLOWING IS A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT FOR THOSE IN CENTRAL NC: To those of you in the central NC area who have experienced DIGITZ terrible service/attitudes/business policies/etc: When you want Amiga support, call Software City of Raleigh (919-676-7613 or 1-800-872-9520) This is a one person operation... so it may sometimes be tough to get through... (Robin Millikin stays quite busy) but it is well worth the wait. Robin is one of the best dealers I have ever had. She will go above and beyond the call of duty to get you what you ask for. Plus she cares for you as an individual. And you won't need to worry about her insulting you or your wife. All she asks in return is for you to be a polite customer. Michael Harris
davisdm@expert.cc.purdue.edu (dawn davis) (09/08/90)
Pardon the waste of bandwidth...this is a test.
ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu (douglas m dyer) (09/08/90)
Not so fast there... Software City in Charlotte does have a 2000 loded with many demos. They will let you try ANY software package before you buy, and all the staff are extremely educated on the machine (more so than any other place I have been with). I have also taken suff back without a hastle at all. While this store might not have a lot of demo machines, the staff are great, and the selection of software is nice. Point taken though, interested students do not have an easy a time to look into an Amiga. Does CBM even have a 1-800 number? Byte (on their issue of the 3000) didn't give an 800 number. ps./ Pushing the subject of Amiga visibility, why not advertise in BYTE, or do more commercials? I still have yet to ever see one (although I am familiar with the ad campain that went on) Doug Dyer Grad student, Clemson univ.