lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (08/31/90)
It looks like Commodore is getting serious about putting Montgomery Grant out
of everyone's misery. They are also taking actions to track warrantee work
and to ensure that it is performed by authorized service centers.
Read this blurb from the August CUCUG newsletter ($20/year. Contact CUCUG,
P.O. Box 716, Champaign, IL 61824-0716):
Commodore Pulls the Plug!
by Steve Endsley
President SAAUG, former President CUCUG
On the morning of August 10, I was attending an Education program training
session for dealers. The first thing they told us was a Commodore rep had
just bought 2 Amiga 3000's from Montgomery Grant, and explained that no
dealers had gone under since their 3000's release. The next sentece by Stu
Maleef brought on the cheers: "We have the serial numbers and are looking for
the dealer who sold them to Montgomery Grant."
I usually get excited about this, but I had been hearing that CBM would be
tracking #'s for 8 months, and had yet to see it start. But after we came
back in from lunch, they announced that a dealership in New York with 2 stores
had just lost its Commodore authorization for gray marketing A3000's. Now I
believe it. Commodore is serious, as can be shown by the next announcement.
As of August 1st, 1990, all Amiga 500's, A590 hard drives, A1011 external
floppy drives, and 1581 floppy drives, C64's, and 1541-II disk drives will be
shipped with a factory seal on the units' seam. The seal is silver metallic
with black lettering. Authorized service centers have also been sent silver
labels with RED letters, all tracked, for installation after warranty service
is completed. Dealers can get them by signature, but only 25 at a time for
tracking purposes.
"IF ANY CUSTOMER BRINGS A MACHINE IN WITH A WARRANTY SEAL BROKEN OR TAMPERED
WITH, THE MACHINE IS NO LONGER COVERED UNDER WARRANTY."
Bottom line: If you buy a machine and want to expand the memory INSIDE the
unit [note: this only is referring to the products listed above, not the A2000
or A3000 - Lionel], GO TO YOUR DEALER!!! If you do it, and the machine breaks
within that first year, you just paid for the repair bill!! BUYER BEWARE!
[end of excerpt]
< Lionellphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (08/31/90)
Jeez! Remove Marc Barrett from my kill file, and what do I see as the first posting I have read from him in months? You guessed it! Another whining, snivelling tirade based on nothing more than his overblown imagination, showing yet again that if he indeed has a brain, that he has probably left it out in the rain and it's gotten all soggy and useless. In <29164@nigel.ee.udel.edu>, BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: >In message <15500060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes: > >> As of August 1st, 1990, all Amiga 500's, A590 hard drives, A1011 external >>floppy drives, and 1581 floppy drives, C64's, and 1541-II disk drives will be >>shipped with a factory seal on the units' seam. >> >>"IF ANY CUSTOMER BRINGS A MACHINE IN WITH A WARRANTY SEAL BROKEN OR TAMPERED >>WITH, THE MACHINE IS NO LONGER COVERED UNDER WARRANTY." >> >>Bottom line: If you buy a machine and want to expand the memory INSIDE the >>unit [note: this only is referring to the products listed above, not the A2000 >>or A3000 - Lionel], GO TO YOUR DEALER!!! If you do it, and the machine breaks >>within that first year, you just paid for the repair bill!! BUYER BEWARE! > >*FLAME ON* > > This is a positively stupid policy. What is the good in having a >system with slots if they cannot be used? You should READ the posting you are replying to, preferably before you reply. Since you didn't, in this case, REREAD the excerpts above, then tell me where in the A500, A590, or the A1011 you find the slots. Idiot. > Apple had a similar policy with respect to the MAC when it was first >released, and received a LOT of (deserved) flack for it. They then >realized their mistake and stopped using this policy. Unfortunately, >Commodore is too stupid to see the mistakes of other companies such >as Apple and not make the same mistakes themselves. The only idiot in evidence is you, Marc. It is standard practice in the industry to seal equipment without user installable options, and to specify that warrantys are void should the seal be broken. > With a policy like this, Commodore might as well not manufacture >A3000s or A2000s, because they will not sell. This policy, combined >with Commodore's totally-wimpy one-year warranty (most PC clone and >workstation manufacturers have a warranty of at least three years), >and the fact that 33Mhz 386 clones are available for less than the >educational price of the A3000/16, will cause a lot of people to give >up on Commodore altogether. REREAD the posting, pinhead. The statement from CBM does NOT mention the 2000 or 3000 series machines. In fact, Lionel's posting specifically says that the A2000 and A3000 are NOT included. Note also that the A500 may have memory added via the expansion connector WITHOUT breaking the seal. > Commodore is not in a position to make mistakes like this. This >will hurt Commodore in a big way if they insist on continuing this >policy. People who lack the ability to read or think are not in a position to post flames on ANY subject. Seems such a shame to have a kill file just for one entry. Oh well. -larry -- It is not possible to both understand and appreciate Intel CPUs. -D.Wolfskill +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
oliver@vangogh.cs.unc.edu (Bill Oliver) (08/31/90)
In article <15500060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > > >"IF ANY CUSTOMER BRINGS A MACHINE IN WITH A WARRANTY SEAL BROKEN OR TAMPERED >WITH, THE MACHINE IS NO LONGER COVERED UNDER WARRANTY." > >Bottom line: If you buy a machine and want to expand the memory INSIDE the >unit [note: this only is referring to the products listed above, not the A2000 >or A3000 - Lionel], GO TO YOUR DEALER!!! If you do it, and the machine breaks >within that first year, you just paid for the repair bill!! BUYER BEWARE! > That really sucks. My closest Amiga dealer (DIGITZ, in Raleigh, NC) not only has an extremely bad attitude towards its customers -- one of the managers made agressive, sexist remarks towards my wife in the store's parking lot -- but charges ** $45.00 ** minimum just to open a box, and then charges an exorbitant fee to actually do something. If they apply this policy to my machine, I'm throwing the thing out the window and buying a Mac. If I want to add a memory board to my Amiga, I have to drive an hour to Raleigh to pay outrageous prices to people who treat me and my family like shit or else void my warranty? Great. I like my Amiga, but I don't think I should be punished for it. Owning this machine doesn't seem to be worth the hassle, sometimes. Bill Oliver
navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David C. Navas) (09/01/90)
In article <15881@thorin.cs.unc.edu> oliver@vangogh.cs.unc.edu (Bill Oliver) writes: >In article <15500060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >>"IF ANY CUSTOMER BRINGS A MACHINE IN WITH A WARRANTY SEAL BROKEN OR TAMPERED >>WITH, THE MACHINE IS NO LONGER COVERED UNDER WARRANTY." >That really sucks. My closest Amiga dealer (DIGITZ, in Raleigh, NC) not >only has an extremely bad attitude towards its customers -- one of the >managers made agressive, sexist remarks towards my wife in the store's >parking lot -- but charges ** $45.00 ** minimum just to open a box, and >then charges an exorbitant fee to actually do something. > >If they apply this policy to my machine, I'm throwing the thing >out the window and buying a Mac. If I want to add a memory board... Chill dude. One cannot really just "open up" a 500 to add some memory anyway, and I thought one of the two versions came with 1meg installed regardless? Anyway, this does not apply to the "card carrying" A2000's and A3000's, and as you have your machine already I really wouldn't be all too concerned. If your dealer is a jerk, I would suggest talking to Cmdre about it. Don't know how far you will get, but I don't think anyone should put up with that kind of treatment. >Bill Oliver Good luck... David Navas navas@sim.berkeley.edu "Excuse my ignorance, but I've been run over by my train of thought." -me
amhartma@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Andy Hartman - AmigaMan) (09/01/90)
In article <15881@thorin.cs.unc.edu> oliver@vangogh.cs.unc.edu (Bill Oliver) writes: > >That really sucks. My closest Amiga dealer (DIGITZ, in Raleigh, NC) not >only has an extremely bad attitude towards its customers -- one of the >managers made agressive, sexist remarks towards my wife in the store's >parking lot -- but charges ** $45.00 ** minimum just to open a box, and >then charges an exorbitant fee to actually do something. Well, if your machine is under warranty, you shouldn't have to pay anything... >If they apply this policy to my machine, I'm throwing the thing >out the window and buying a Mac. If I want to add a memory board >to my Amiga, I have to drive an hour to Raleigh to pay outrageous >prices to people who treat me and my family like shit or else void >my warranty? If the warranty has expired on your machine, you can do anything you want to it and those little stickers won't mean a hill of beans. The stickers only apply while the machine is under warranty. (If I understood the article correctly.) >Owning this machine doesn't seem to be worth the hassle, sometimes. Whatever... >Bill Oliver AMH * Andy Hartman | I'd deny half of this crap anyway!| "Somedays, you just * Indiana University |-----------------------------------| can't get rid of a * // Amiga Man | amhartma@silver.ucs.indiana.edu | bomb!" * \X/ At Large! | AMHARTMA@rose.ucs.indiana.edu | - Batman (original)
BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (09/01/90)
In message <15500060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes: > As of August 1st, 1990, all Amiga 500's, A590 hard drives, A1011 external >floppy drives, and 1581 floppy drives, C64's, and 1541-II disk drives will be >shipped with a factory seal on the units' seam. The seal is silver metallic >with black lettering. Authorized service centers have also been sent silver >labels with RED letters, all tracked, for installation after warranty service >is completed. Dealers can get them by signature, but only 25 at a time for >tracking purposes. > >"IF ANY CUSTOMER BRINGS A MACHINE IN WITH A WARRANTY SEAL BROKEN OR TAMPERED >WITH, THE MACHINE IS NO LONGER COVERED UNDER WARRANTY." > >Bottom line: If you buy a machine and want to expand the memory INSIDE the >unit [note: this only is referring to the products listed above, not the A2000 >or A3000 - Lionel], GO TO YOUR DEALER!!! If you do it, and the machine breaks >within that first year, you just paid for the repair bill!! BUYER BEWARE! > >[end of excerpt] > >< Lionel *FLAME ON* This is a positively stupid policy. What is the good in having a system with slots if they cannot be used? Apple had a similar policy with respect to the MAC when it was first released, and received a LOT of (deserved) flack for it. They then realized their mistake and stopped using this policy. Unfortunately, Commodore is too stupid to see the mistakes of other companies such as Apple and not make the same mistakes themselves. With a policy like this, Commodore might as well not manufacture A3000s or A2000s, because they will not sell. This policy, combined with Commodore's totally-wimpy one-year warranty (most PC clone and workstation manufacturers have a warranty of at least three years), and the fact that 33Mhz 386 clones are available for less than the educational price of the A3000/16, will cause a lot of people to give up on Commodore altogether. Commodore is not in a position to make mistakes like this. This will hurt Commodore in a big way if they insist on continuing this policy. FLAME OFF -MB-
lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (09/01/90)
Written by BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu in comp.sys.amiga: > >Bottom line: If you buy a machine and want to expand the memory INSIDE the > >unit [note: this only is referring to the products listed above, not the A2000 > >or A3000 - Lionel], GO TO YOUR DEALER!!! If you do it, and the machine breaks > >within that first year, you just paid for the repair bill!! BUYER BEWARE! > * FLAME ON! * > This is a positively stupid policy. What is the good in having a > system with slots if they cannot be used? > > With a policy like this, Commodore might as well not manufacture > A3000s or A2000s, because they will not sell. > [ remainder mercifully deleted ] * FLAME BACK * Rather, I think you are positively daft. You completely missed it, didn't you? The editorial clarification I put in was to fend off misinterpretation by sloppy readers. I suppose I should have guessed that someone might still fall off the low end of the bell curve. What do you DO, read every OTHER sentence? What do you DO, read every OTHER sentence? Could I have made it any clearer? Could I have made it any clearer? [ digression ] I am reminded of a story once told about an unnamed Commodore engineer who designed a hardware register that would sometimes fail to latch a value the first time it was written. The work-around for this mistake was to always write the register twice when setting it. Unwilling to let this guy live it down, his co-workers began repeating everything twice when addressing him. How fitting! [ Thanks to Dave Haynie for the story. ] < Lionel
bscott@nyx.UUCP (Ben Scott) (09/01/90)
In article <3766@tymix.UUCP> pnelson@hobbes.UUCP (Phil Nelson) writes: >probably counterproductive to further aggravate the situation by voiding > the warrties of the many 500 owners who expand their own machines. > > I have a suggestion, though - Commodore could include a third type of >sticker (for memory upgrade) with the expansion. Each third party mfgr. I think a lot of people are missing something about the original post - The sticker does not appear on the machines that are designed for user expansion, like the 2000 and 3000. But the A-500, A-590, etc. machines ARE NOT designed for the user to meddle with on the inside, and the warranties already state that. Of course, lots of people do mess around with the insides (I installed two megs of RAM chips in my A-590 before I left the store with it) but that ALREADY voids the warranty, and always has. The stickers are just a means of verification - NOTHING has actually changed. At least, that is the way I read it. The 2000 series (2500/etc) and the 3000, which have internal slots and therefore a reason for the user to be inside poking his nose in, will not have the stickers because the warranties are still good after opening the machine. If I am wrong here, I'm sure y'all will let me know. But from what I can tell, things are just the same as before only with some added security. . <<<<Infinite K>>>> -- .---------------------------------------------------------------------------. |Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver| |Amiga UUCP node domain: bscott@vila.denver.co.us Else: bscott@nyx.cs.du.edu| |FIDO point address 1:104/421.2, or call the Arvada 68K BBS at (303)424-9831| |"Don't embarrass us..." "Have I ever?" - Buckaroo Banzai | *AMIGA POWER* | `---------------------------------------------------------------------------'
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (09/01/90)
In article <29164@nigel.ee.udel.edu> BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: >In message <15500060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes: || As of August 1st, 1990, all Amiga 500's, A590 hard drives, A1011 external ^^^^^^^^^ ||floppy drives, and 1581 floppy drives, C64's, and 1541-II disk drives will be ||shipped with a factory seal on the units' seam. The seal is silver metallic ||with black lettering. Authorized service centers have also been sent silver ||labels with RED letters, all tracked, for installation after warranty service ||is completed. Dealers can get them by signature, but only 25 at a time for ||tracking purposes. ||"IF ANY CUSTOMER BRINGS A MACHINE IN WITH A WARRANTY SEAL BROKEN OR TAMPERED ||WITH, THE MACHINE IS NO LONGER COVERED UNDER WARRANTY." ||Bottom line: If you buy a machine and want to expand the memory INSIDE the ||unit [note:this only is referring to the products listed above, not the A2000 ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ||or A3000 - Lionel], GO TO YOUR DEALER!!! If you do it, and the machine breaks ^^^^^^^^ ||within that first year, you just paid for the repair bill!! BUYER BEWARE! |*FLAME ON* | This is a positively stupid policy. What is the good in having a |system with slots if they cannot be used? ^^^^^ Marc, *read* the messages you respond to IN THEIR ENTIRETY before making statement of FALSE assumptions. The policy applies only to A500s, NOT A2000s or A3000s. A500s have *NO SLOTS*, dude. Back to your regular programming :-) -- Marco -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Xerox sues somebody for copying?" -- David Letterman -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
don@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (Donald R Lloyd) (09/01/90)
In article <29164@nigel.ee.udel.edu> BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > >In message <15500060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes: >> [Warranty stuff deleted] >> >>Bottom line: If you buy a machine and want to expand the memory INSIDE the >>unit [note: this only is referring to the products listed above, not the A2000 >>or A3000 - Lionel], GO TO YOUR DEALER!!! >>within that first year, you just paid for the repair bill!! BUYER BEWARE! >*FLAME ON* > This is a positively stupid policy. What is the good in having a >system with slots if they cannot be used? > > Apple had a similar policy with respect to the MAC when it was first [more gripes deleted] > With a policy like this, Commodore might as well not manufacture >A3000s or A2000s, because they will not sell. Ummm, reread the message you replied to, with special attention to the portion I quoted above. This ONLY APPLIES TO THE 500!! Read a little more carefully before you flame... >This policy, combined >with Commodore's totally-wimpy one-year warranty (most PC clone and >workstation manufacturers have a warranty of at least three years), >and the fact that 33Mhz 386 clones are available for less than the >educational price of the A3000/16, will cause a lot of people to give >up on Commodore altogether. > I just pulled out my recent computer shopper. A quick skim through the ads by some of the more reputable-appearing outfits almost universally have 1 year warranties on their systems. I say almost just to cover anything I might have missed, but as far as I can tell they ALL have 1 year warranties. Yes, you can get a 33MHz 386 for less than the ed price of a 3000/16. But such systems generally are made of cheap generic parts by companies which might not be there the next day. You can get them from reputable companies for around the cost of the 3000/25... but usually with mono monitors (or none at all), only 1 or 2 EISA slots (or none at all, with just the slow AT bus). Then you have to buy your operating system separately, at added cost. DOS and windows will cost another $200, and still don't have anywhere near the functionality of AmigaDOS (especially on anything less than a 386). And you're still running 8-bit code on a 32-bit processor with a slow bus and no DMA or coprocessors (unless you pay some extra money for a 387; all 3000's have math coprocessors) and slow displays. As for people giving up on Commodore.. from what I hear, sales are higher than they've been since the C64's glory days; the 3000 is back ordered into the thousands, and CBM has been opening up production on weekends to help keep up with the demand. This doesn't sound like a company people are giving up on. > -MB- Ah. That explains it. -- Gibberish .sig for sale or lease. is spoken Contact don@vax1.acs.udel.edu for more information. here. DISCLAIMER: It's all YOUR fault.
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) (09/01/90)
In article <29164@nigel.ee.udel.edu> BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > >In message <15500060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes: > >> As of August 1st, 1990, all Amiga 500's, A590 hard drives, A1011 external >>floppy drives, and 1581 floppy drives, C64's, and 1541-II disk drives will be >>shipped with a factory seal on the units' seam. The seal is silver metallic >>with black lettering. Authorized service centers have also been sent silver >>labels with RED letters, all tracked, for installation after warranty service >>is completed. Dealers can get them by signature, but only 25 at a time for >>tracking purposes. >> >>"IF ANY CUSTOMER BRINGS A MACHINE IN WITH A WARRANTY SEAL BROKEN OR TAMPERED >>WITH, THE MACHINE IS NO LONGER COVERED UNDER WARRANTY." >> >>Bottom line: If you buy a machine and want to expand the memory INSIDE the >>unit [note: this only is referring to the products listed above, not the A2000 >>or A3000 - Lionel], GO TO YOUR DEALER!!! If you do it, and the machine breaks >>within that first year, you just paid for the repair bill!! BUYER BEWARE! >> >>[end of excerpt] >> >>< Lionel > >*FLAME ON* I guess I shouldn't be surprised. > This is a positively stupid policy. What is the good in having a >system with slots if they cannot be used? I can't imagine that they would prevent you from using the slots. Isn't that the whole purpose of having them so that a mere user can add certain capabilities to his/her machine WITHOUT going to a service center. Besides, the message as quoted here doesn't even mention the A2000-3000 machines. > > Apple had a similar policy with respect to the MAC when it was first >released, and received a LOT of (deserved) flack for it. They then Actually, it wasn't too obtrusive when the Mac first came out since there were NO slots in the machine. So most people I knew just waited 90 days before bumping up their memory. :) >realized their mistake and stopped using this policy. Unfortunately, >Commodore is too stupid to see the mistakes of other companies such >as Apple and not make the same mistakes themselves. I think the policy will be quite effective in weeding out the scumbags like Montgomery Grant. I think this is more important than te small incovenience to a few net.crybabies. > > With a policy like this, Commodore might as well not manufacture >A3000s or A2000s, because they will not sell. This policy, combined Like I said, 2000's and 3000's don't seem to be part of the program. Lighten up, man. >with Commodore's totally-wimpy one-year warranty (most PC clone and >workstation manufacturers have a warranty of at least three years), HEHEHEHE! Weren't you one of the people bitching and moaning that CBM should raise the warranty to keep up with Apple et al? Now that a few clone makers have longer ones, you're clamoring for more. I guess there is no satisfying certain people. There are quite a few companies out there with the standard 90 day warranty intact. Just check out Atari Corp. >and the fact that 33Mhz 386 clones are available for less than the >educational price of the A3000/16, will cause a lot of people to give >up on Commodore altogether. Well, this is true IF you buy a very vanilla system with not too much memory and average graphics. To get a really nice 386-33 system, you would have to spend $3.5K-5K so I think the prices are in the same ballpark. > Commodore is not in a position to make mistakes like this. This >will hurt Commodore in a big way if they insist on continuing this >policy. 3000's seem to be selling like hotcakes in New York city. >FLAME OFF <-----------> -MB- Hehe, oxymoron. ^^^^^ Cheers, Chris p.s. Suggest you try Sanka. ------------------------------+--------------------------- Chris Mauritz |D{r det finns en |l, finns cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |det en plan! (c)All rights reserved. | Send flames to /dev/null | ------------------------------+---------------------------
Joseph P. Hillenburg (joseph@valnet.UUCP) (09/02/90)
BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > > In message <15500060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes: > > > As of August 1st, 1990, all Amiga 500's, A590 hard drives, A1011 externa > >floppy drives, and 1581 floppy drives, C64's, and 1541-II disk drives will b > >shipped with a factory seal on the units' seam. The seal is silver metallic > >with black lettering. Authorized service centers have also been sent silver > >labels with RED letters, all tracked, for installation after warranty servic > >is completed. Dealers can get them by signature, but only 25 at a time for > >tracking purposes. > > > >"IF ANY CUSTOMER BRINGS A MACHINE IN WITH A WARRANTY SEAL BROKEN OR TAMPERED > >WITH, THE MACHINE IS NO LONGER COVERED UNDER WARRANTY." > > > >Bottom line: If you buy a machine and want to expand the memory INSIDE the > >unit [note: this only is referring to the products listed above, not the A20 > >or A3000 - Lionel], GO TO YOUR DEALER!!! If you do it, and the machine brea > >within that first year, you just paid for the repair bill!! BUYER BEWARE! > > > >[end of excerpt] > > > >< Lionel > > *FLAME ON* > This is a positively stupid policy. What is the good in having a > system with slots if they cannot be used? > > Apple had a similar policy with respect to the MAC when it was first > released, and received a LOT of (deserved) flack for it. They then > realized their mistake and stopped using this policy. Unfortunately, > Commodore is too stupid to see the mistakes of other companies such > as Apple and not make the same mistakes themselves. > > With a policy like this, Commodore might as well not manufacture > A3000s or A2000s, because they will not sell. This policy, combined > with Commodore's totally-wimpy one-year warranty (most PC clone and > workstation manufacturers have a warranty of at least three years), > and the fact that 33Mhz 386 clones are available for less than the > educational price of the A3000/16, will cause a lot of people to give > up on Commodore altogether. > > Commodore is not in a position to make mistakes like this. This > will hurt Commodore in a big way if they insist on continuing this > policy. > FLAME OFF > > -MB- Maybe you misunderstood the original posting. He specified only: 1541-II A500 C64 And maybe a few others. It still gave the user permission to install cars in the trap door on the A500 and put a cartridge in the C64 and put an A590 on the backplane slot. A2000's and up were completely untouched by the deal. -Joseph Hillenburg (Sultan of Asm) INET: joseph@valnet.uucp |MAIL: 1709 West Gray UUCP: ...!iuvax!valnet!joseph |MAIL: Bloomington, IN 47401 AT&T: 1-812-336-2969 |MAIL: United States CompSci BBS: 3/12/24 1-812-876-4407 9:30 pm-7:30 am |Mail replies requested Those aren't bugs! Just undesirable features!
schur@isi.edu (Sean Schur) (09/02/90)
In article <29164@nigel.ee.udel.edu> BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > >In message <15500060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes: > >> As of August 1st, 1990, all Amiga 500's, A590 hard drives, A1011 external >>floppy drives, and 1581 floppy drives, C64's, and 1541-II disk drives will be >>unit [note: this only is referring to the products listed above, not the A2000 >>or A3000 - Lionel], GO TO YOUR DEALER!!! If you do it, and the machine breaks >> >>[end of excerpt] >> >*FLAME ON* > This is a positively stupid policy. What is the good in having a >system with slots if they cannot be used? *FLAME ON* CAN YOU READ BUDDY. This applies to 500's. Does the 500 have any internal slots? NO. > > With a policy like this, Commodore might as well not manufacture >A3000s or A2000s, because they will not sell. This policy, combined > The article that you are "flaming" clearly states that this does NOT apply to the 2000 or 3000 series machines. >FLAME OFF > Please people, read before you start flaming an article or a company. ============================================================================== Sean Schur USENET: schur@isi.edu Compuserve: 70731,1102 Plink: OSS259 ==============================================================================
BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (09/02/90)
In a recent message I wrote: >In message <15500060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes: >> As of August 1st, 1990, all Amiga 500's, A590 hard drives, A1011 external >>floppy drives, and 1581 floppy drives, C64's, and 1541-II disk drives will be >>shipped with a factory seal on the units' seam. The seal is silver metallic >>with black lettering. Authorized service centers have also been sent silver >>labels with RED letters, all tracked, for installation after warranty service >>is completed. Dealers can get them by signature, but only 25 at a time for >>tracking purposes. >> >>"IF ANY CUSTOMER BRINGS A MACHINE IN WITH A WARRANTY SEAL BROKEN OR TAMPERED >>WITH, THE MACHINE IS NO LONGER COVERED UNDER WARRANTY." >> >>< Lionel > >*FLAME ON* [Endless stupid flaming deleted] It is amazing I am still able to walk, what with the incredible amount of amunition I've been pumping into my feet lately. :-) About a week ago, someone told me about the new Commodore policy, so I called up a Commodore dealer and asked them about it. They told me that the new policy DID pertain to both the A2000 and A3000, as well as a number of other products. After shooting my mouth off on the net again last night, I called the same dealer today and asked them about it again. Sure enough, the new policy does NOT pertain to the A2000 or A3000. <BAM> <BAM> There went what was left of my feet... :-) I should blame this on Commodore. After all, if they didn't have their act together so well, I would have more to legitemately complain about, and I wouldn't be uselessly shooting myself so much. I have been REALLY scratching to find things to complain about at Commodore. What ever happened to the good old days when there was plenty to complain about at Commodore? I'm beginning to miss them... -MB-
amhartma@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Andy Hartman - AmigaMan) (09/02/90)
People, please re-read the note!!!!! The poster says that this doesn't apply to the 2000 - 3000! AMH * Andy Hartman | I'd deny half of this crap anyway!| "Somedays, you just * Indiana University |-----------------------------------| can't get rid of a * // Amiga Man | amhartma@silver.ucs.indiana.edu | bomb!" * \X/ At Large! | AMHARTMA@rose.ucs.indiana.edu | - Batman (original)
FelineGrace@cup.portal.com (Dana B Bourgeois) (09/02/90)
Something has been missing from Usenet lately and I didn't for the life
of me know what it was. Then Marc Barret ( -MB- ) spoke up a few days
ago and I remembered. Hot Damn, Marc, it's good to have you back and
in perfect form. I've missed you.
:)
Danammaston@portia.Stanford.EDU (Michael Maston) (09/02/90)
In article <15500063@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > >Written by BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu in comp.sys.amiga: >> >Bottom line: If you buy a machine and want to expand the memory INSIDE the >> >unit [note: this only is referring to the products listed above, not the A2000 >> >or A3000 - Lionel], GO TO YOUR DEALER!!! If you do it, and the machine breaks >> >within that first year, you just paid for the repair bill!! BUYER BEWARE! > >> * FLAME ON! * >> This is a positively stupid policy. What is the good in having a >> system with slots if they cannot be used? >> >> With a policy like this, Commodore might as well not manufacture >> A3000s or A2000s, because they will not sell. >> [ remainder mercifully deleted ] > >* FLAME BACK * >Rather, I think you are positively daft. You completely missed it, didn't >you? The editorial clarification I put in was to fend off misinterpretation >by sloppy readers. I suppose I should have guessed that someone might still >fall off the low end of the bell curve. What do you DO, read every OTHER >sentence? What do you DO, read every OTHER sentence? Could I have made it >any clearer? Could I have made it any clearer? Here, here! :-) (Sorry, I couldn't resist...) Michael Maston GTE Government Systems Mt. View, CA
collins@Alliant.COM (Phil Collins) (09/02/90)
The warranty seal is also used to protect Commodre and retail outlets. On many occasions certain people will buy a new A-500 or C-64,128 an remove the mother board and seap it out for an old one and many times with no chips installed.I know of several store that have been really ripped off.
ayr@spica.hut.fi (Ari Yrj|l{) (09/02/90)
In article <4126@alliant.Alliant.COM> collins@alliant.Alliant.COM (Phil Collins) writes: > The warranty seal is also used to protect Commodre and retail outlets. On many occasions certain people will buy a new A-500 or C-64,128 an remove the mother board and seap it out for an old one and many times with no chips installed.I know of >several store that have been really ripped off. When Big Agnus were new and it was installed first to new A500s and A2000s and there were shortage of it as a spare part (and also older amiga owners wanted it) it was opposite situation here in Finland. I heard rumours from various persons that PCI-Data (which imports Amiga here) took off Big Agnuses from new A500s which they were repairing under warranty and put old Fat Agnuses inside instead. Those youngsters playing games wouldn't notice nothing... nowadays their price for Big Agnus is about $400 BTW. Nice, isn't it? (And don't ask me why we're all pissed off with PCI-Data and it's outrigeous prices...) This msg is sent by: Ari Yrj|l{ // Internet: ayrjola@hut.fi Address: JMT 3B 231b // BITNET : LK-AY AT FINHUT 02150 ESPOO ,Finland,Europe :: // VoiceNet: +358-(9)0-468 3088 ______________________________________://------------------------------
a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) (09/03/90)
In article <29279@nigel.ee.udel.edu> @ricevm1.rice.edu (Brian Wright) writes: > I hate to add to this particular topic but it's getting QUITE old. >One person posts a flame (that is incorrect) then loads of people jump on this >one person by posting FLAMES about the FLAME for being unobservative. Then >the thread becomes just another FLAME. Let's just send FLAMES to the person >directly and leave the net for informational posts. Thanks.... Although I generally agree with this, I sure wouldn't have wanted to miss the flames from Lionel Hummel and Larry Phillips. They really made my day. :-) Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.UUCP Intel puts the "backward" in "backward compatibility."
S36666WB%ETSUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu (Brian Wright) (09/04/90)
Hello,
I hate to add to this particular topic but it's getting QUITE old.
One person posts a flame (that is incorrect) then loads of people jump on this
one person by posting FLAMES about the FLAME for being unobservative. Then
the thread becomes just another FLAME. Let's just send FLAMES to the person
directly and leave the net for informational posts. Thanks....
------------------------------------------------------------------------
=======================================================================
||To steal from one is plagiarism. To steal from many is research. ||
||___________________________________ ---UNKNOWN--- ||
|| | / / ||
||---Brian Wright | / / ||
||---s36666wb@etsuacad.etsu.edu | \ \/ / Only Amiga ||
||---Commercial Artist and Amigaphile| \/\/ Makes It Possible!! ||
=======================================================================nfs1675@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil ( Michael S Figg) (09/04/90)
In article <29164@nigel.ee.udel.edu>, BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > > *FLAME ON* > This is a positively stupid policy. What is the good in having a > system with slots if they cannot be used? > FLAME OFF > -MB- The message said this was only for the 500. The facts are there for a reason. ---Mike, -- A man said to the Universe "Sir, I exist!" | Michael Figg DSAC-FSD "However," replied the Universe, | DLA Systems Automation Center "The fact has not created in me a | Columbus, Ohio sense of obligation."- Stephen Crane | mfigg@dsac.dla.mil CIS: 73777,360
brianm@sco.COM (Brian Moffet) (09/04/90)
BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: >In message <15500060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes: >> As of August 1st, 1990, all Amiga 500's, A590 hard drives, A1011 external >>floppy drives, and 1581 floppy drives, C64's, and 1541-II disk drives will be >>shipped with a factory seal on the units' seam. >*FLAME ON* > This is a positively stupid policy. What is the good in having a >system with slots if they cannot be used? > Commodore is not in a position to make mistakes like this. This >will hurt Commodore in a big way if they insist on continuing this >policy. >FLAME OFF Marc, note, the original article, all A500's and some peripherals. The A2000 and A3000 are not included. It seems you went completely by something in your interpretation. We know you have a brain and should have an owners manual, please use it and read before you flame. brian moffet
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (09/05/90)
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >Marc, *read* the messages you respond to IN THEIR ENTIRETY before making >statement of FALSE assumptions. Y'know what they say about people in glass houses Marco? I am referring to another subject here where someone very dear to you made the same mistake as Marc did (The VLT vt100 emulator subject, where you missed a few words in the posting.. "I have") When I read this posting, it was just too good of an opportunity to pass up. ... don't get mad. It's all meant in humor. ;-) -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (09/06/90)
S36666WB%ETSUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu (Brian Wright) writes: >Hello, > I hate to add to this particular topic but it's getting QUITE old. >One person posts a flame (that is incorrect) then loads of people jump on this >one person by posting FLAMES about the FLAME for being unobservative. Then >the thread becomes just another FLAME. Let's just send FLAMES to the person >directly and leave the net for informational posts. Thanks.... But *everyone* likes to flame Marc Barrett, it's comp.sys.amiga's main past time. We tried ignoring him but he still wouldn't go away, so we might as well flame him and get a little fun out of it. 1/2 :-) -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (09/07/90)
In article <29164@nigel.ee.udel.edu> BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > >In message <15500060@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <lhummel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes: >> As of August 1st, 1990, all Amiga 500's, A590 hard drives, A1011 external >>floppy drives, and 1581 floppy drives, C64's, and 1541-II disk drives ... >>"IF ANY CUSTOMER BRINGS A MACHINE IN WITH A WARRANTY SEAL BROKEN OR TAMPERED >>WITH, THE MACHINE IS NO LONGER COVERED UNDER WARRANTY." >*FLAME ON* > This is a positively stupid policy. What is the good in having a >system with slots if they cannot be used? Read it again. I don't know any more about this policy than what's been quoted here, but the quote doesn't mention any machines with slots. The only expandable systems mentioned are the A500 and C64, and both of these guys get their expansions via externally added plug-ins. > Apple had a similar policy with respect to the MAC when it was first >released, and received a LOT of (deserved) flack for it. I don't know if they've changed policy, but as of around the time the PC-AT was introduced, IBM was stricter. They wanted the dealers installing cards in slotted machines, not you. And you voided your warrantee if you used a non-IBM expansion card. >This policy, combined with Commodore's totally-wimpy one-year warranty (most >PC clone and workstation manufacturers have a warranty of at least three >years), I don't know about that. Less than a year ago, Commodore was getting flamed for having a 90 day warrantee, when the industry standard was one year. Did everyone else in the entire industry jump to three years this year? > -MB- Oh, but look, it's that MB guy again, confused as usual. Now I understand... -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Get that coffee outta my face, put a Margarita in its place!
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (09/07/90)
In article <6891@vax1.acs.udel.EDU> don@vax1.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) writes: >Yes, you can get a 33MHz 386 for less than the ed price of a 3000/16. But >such systems generally are made of cheap generic parts by companies which >might not be there the next day. You can get them from reputable companies >for around the cost of the 3000/25... After getting involved in a thread awhile back in comp.arch, about whether or not it's really important to belive the published power and timing specifications on chips, I would be a little more nervous about buying a cheap clone than I was a month or two ago. Where I come from, you design for simultaneous worst case, period. I'm reasonably sure that the folks at Apple, IBM, Compaq, and a few other "reputable" companies feel the same way. I'm equally certain, at this point, that lots of other folks feel you can usually get away with stretching your design rules. Things like this, along with the usual "because they can get it" or "because they advertise alot", are likely reasons a Compaq clone costs more than a Taiwan Special of similar configuration. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Get that coffee outta my face, put a Margarita in its place!
urjlew@uncecs.edu (Rostyk Lewyckyj) (09/07/90)
In article <14251@cbmvax.commodore.com>, daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: > > After getting involved in a thread awhile back in comp.arch, about whether > or not it's really important to belive the published power and timing > specifications on chips, I would be a little more nervous about buying a > cheap clone than I was a month or two ago. Where I come from, you design > for simultaneous worst case, period. I'm reasonably sure that the folks at > Apple, IBM, Compaq, and a few other "reputable" companies feel the same > way. I'm equally certain, at this point, that lots of other folks feel you > can usually get away with stretching your design rules. Things like this, > along with the usual "because they can get it" or "because they advertise > alot", are likely reasons a Compaq clone costs more than a Taiwan Special of > similar configuration. > Dave would you please then tell all of us why the A1000 has such great difficulties with its bus and expansions? Why the problems aand fixes to terminate the bus and ground some of the chips? What about the fact that the bus is (not buffered?) Is this because you were not involved then? I also seem to remember there were some problems on the 2000 (with memory?) ----------------------------------------------- Reply-To: Rostyslaw Jarema Lewyckyj urjlew@ecsvax.UUCP , urjlew@unc.bitnet or urjlew@uncvm1.acs.unc.edu (ARPA,SURA,NSF etc. internet) tel. (919)-962-6501
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (09/11/90)
In article <1990Sep7.021855.2789@uncecs.edu> urjlew@uncecs.edu (Rostyk Lewyckyj) writes: >Dave would you please then tell all of us why the A1000 has such >great difficulties with its bus and expansions? Mainly because folks are hooking up stuff in a way never intended. The A1000 should have ONE, count 'em, ONE add on device hooked up. That's either a SOTS box or an Expansion box. Anything that goes inside, other than perhaps a daughterboard replacement ROM kind of thing, is going to be bad news. Anything that involves chaining together multiple SOTS boxes is also asking for trouble. >Why the problems aand fixes to terminate the bus and ground some of the >chips? Well, I have heard that the original daughterboard was noisier than one would have liked it. I hacked around with it way back (in '86, in conjunction with this Chris Erving memory hack thing) and didn't notice it being particularly noisy, but perhaps it was. The quoted fix was running an extra ground wire to one of the PAL devices. I guess the basic problem here, if any, was that the daughterboard was a very late development and could have been done better. In fact, it was in the very last A1000s, which incorporated that section into the motherboard. On the other hand, a number of the problems this is supposed to fix are related to multiple SOTS boxes and other doohickeys working together. You can hardly blame the A1000 for not working in situations it's not especially designed to be working in. So, while some of these things are looked on as fixes by the folks hooking up too much stuff, I would prefer to call them hacks to get that stuff, sometimes, working. >What about the fact that the bus is (not buffered?) Well, with only one SOTS box hooked up, that's not a problem. The loading on the A1000 edge connector, like the A500 edge connector or A2000/A3000 Coprocessor slots, is expected. Within limits. The A1000 expects exactly one set of buffers to be hooked up to it, and is well within its right to get annoyed at multiple things hanging there. >Is this because you were not involved then? No. I was working on the C128 then. You can't hook cartridges up to the C128 and expect it to work, either. And there's no standard for an external C128 expansion backplane. I'm pretty happy about most of what they did back in the A1000 days, especially on the expansion bus, which I did pretty much inherit responsibility for. >I also seem to remember there were some problems on the 2000 >(with memory?) Memory problems? There were problems with the very first 2000-A memory daughterboards, but I think they licked those problems before production. > Reply-To: Rostyslaw Jarema Lewyckyj -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Get that coffee outta my face, put a Margarita in its place!