davidm@sugar.hackercorp.com (David Martin) (09/08/90)
ALL: A friend tells me that ADA is being released for the Commodore Amiga by Oxxi. Has anyone heard the details about it yet? Or about their new program editor? M2 compiler also? -- signature...I'll figure it out later. Freelance writer for hire!
sdl@linus.mitre.org (Steven D. Litvinchouk) (09/08/90)
In article <6547@sugar.hackercorp.com> davidm@sugar.hackercorp.com (David Martin) writes: > ALL: > A friend tells me that ADA is being released for the > Commodore Amiga by Oxxi. Has anyone heard the details > about it yet? Or about their new program editor? M2 > compiler also? I called Oxxi about this, but all I got was a receptionist. I asked the usual questions (are they looking for beta test sites for Ada, etc.). All she knew was that they are indeed "doing something with Ada," but so far no one has returned my phone call with any more substantive news. By the way, the language name is "Ada," not "ADA". "ADA" is an acronym that stands for such organizations as "American Dental Association," "Americans for Democratic Action," etc. -- Steven Litvintchouk MITRE Corporation Burlington Road Bedford, MA 01730 (617)271-7753 ARPA: sdl@mbunix.mitre.org UUCP: ...{att,decvax,genrad,ll-xn,philabs,utzoo}!linus!sdl "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" -- J. Napier (a.k.a. "The Joker")
jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu (John Richardson) (09/09/90)
[CHOMP(<] >> A friend tells me that ADA is being released for the >> Commodore Amiga by Oxxi. Has anyone heard the details >> about it yet? Or about their new program editor? M2 >> compiler also? > >I called Oxxi about this, but all I got was a receptionist. I asked >the usual questions (are they looking for beta test sites for Ada, >etc.). All she knew was that they are indeed "doing something with >Ada," but so far no one has returned my phone call with any more >substantive news. I really hope this is true! Tasking would be *so* much easier in Ada. My only problem is if Oxxi does publish Ada and SAS comes out with C++ 2.1 then I'm gonna have to make a CHOICE in what OOP language I buy!!! Wow! That would feel good! Here's to Amiga Ada!!!! Of course, by the time either/both of them are for sale I might be out of school and be able to afford BOTH! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ < John Richardson < "I set the wheels in motion < > jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu > turn on light and sound > < University of Lowell < activate the programs < > (just a student) > and watch the world go round..." > < < --Neil Peart (RUSH) < ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (09/10/90)
davidm@sugar.hackercorp.com (David Martin) writes: >ALL: > A friend tells me that ADA is being released for the >Commodore Amiga by Oxxi. Has anyone heard the details >about it yet? Or about their new program editor? M2 >compiler also? I bought my Modula-2 compiler through OXXI - stay away from them. Ada for the Amiga sounds like a dream come true, but it OXXI is involved, nightmare is more likely to be the result. At a minimum, let everybody else go through the non-delivery, the unanswered phone calls and letters, the unkept promises, until they've proved that this time they're _not_ out to screw the customers. Like I've said before about shady business practices, the net has a long memory and a wide reach. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> -- The M2 compiler was finally provide _at shipping cost_ from Avante Garde in Plano TX after OXXI refused to honor their upgrade guarantee; nice people at A.G.
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (09/10/90)
davidm@sugar.hackercorp.com (David Martin) writes: >ALL: > A friend tells me that ADA is being released for the >Commodore Amiga by Oxxi. Has anyone heard the details >about it yet? Or about their new program editor? M2 >compiler also? I bought my Modula-2 compiler through OXXI - stay away from them. Ada for the Amiga sounds like a dream come true, but if OXXI is involved, nightmare is more likely to be the result. At a minimum, let everybody else go through the non-delivery, the unreturned phone calls and unanswered letters, the unkept promises, until they've proved that this time they're _not_ out to screw the customers with vaporware or shoddy merchandise. Like I've said before about shady business practices, the net has a long memory and a wide reach. Especially the grouchy parts of the net. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> -- The M2 compiler was finally provided _at shipping cost_ from Avante Garde Software in Plano, TX after OXXI refused to honor their upgrade guarantee; nice people at A.G.S.
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (09/10/90)
In article <1990Sep9.173108.16455@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >I bought my Modula-2 compiler through OXXI - stay away from them. > >Ada for the Amiga sounds like a dream come true, but it OXXI is >involved, nightmare is more likely to be the result. >At a minimum, let everybody else go through the non-delivery, the >unanswered phone calls and letters, the unkept promises, until >they've proved that this time they're _not_ out to screw the >customers. You fail to mention that there was a lawsuit between Oxxi and Avantgarde involving rights to the M2 compiler (I won't go into the details of who was right and who was wrong). Bottom line is that Oxxi ended up agreeing to release the rights to the M2 compiler back to AvantGarde and therefore was not permitted to upgrade their old version with anything (they couldn't anyway 'cause AvantGarde never gave them an upgrade). >Like I've said before about shady business practices, the net >has a long memory and a wide reach. >The M2 compiler was finally provide _at shipping cost_ from >Avante Garde in Plano TX after OXXI refused to honor their >upgrade guarantee; nice people at A.G. As I said, Oxxi could not "physically" upgrade you, since they legally couldn't do it. My personal experience as developer with Oxxi is quite different. They have always offered quite inexpensive upgrades/updates (updates where $8, major upgrades $35). I don't know from whom you got the idea of an upgrade guarantee, but hardly any company has "free" upgrade guarantees, if that is what you imply. I have upgraded/updated A-Talk III at least 20 times since it came out is Sept. 88, and Oxxi offered all of them promptly at a fair price to current users. If there have been problems, most have been due to the rapid expansion Oxxi has had since it acquired Aegis, but I've heard from end-users that most of the problems (concerning tech. support) have been or are being solved. Making bold statements like the ones you make concerning a single product and generalizing to a company's entire line, especially without giving out the details involved, is what I call misinformation. Since we are on the "update" topic, let me mention that A-Talk III release 1.3c versions, which include the "2.0 compatible" green stickers should be appearing at the dealers soon, if they haven't already. While AT-/// 1.3c has been out since DevCon, we received the stickers only about a month ago, and that should be enough time to trickle down from the Developer->Publisher->Distributor-> Dealer. -- Marco -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Xerox sues somebody for copying?" -- David Letterman -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (09/10/90)
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >>I bought my Modula-2 compiler through OXXI - stay away from them. >> >>Ada for the Amiga sounds like a dream come true, but it OXXI is >>involved, nightmare is more likely to be the result. >>At a minimum, let everybody else go through the non-delivery, the >>unanswered phone calls and letters, the unkept promises, until >>they've proved that this time they're _not_ out to screw the >>customers. > >You fail to mention that there was a lawsuit between Oxxi and Avantgarde >involving rights to the M2 compiler (I won't go into the details of who >was right and who was wrong). Bottom line is that Oxxi ended up agreeing to >release the rights to the M2 compiler back to AvantGarde and therefore was not >permitted to upgrade their old version with anything (they couldn't anyway >'cause AvantGarde never gave them an upgrade). OXXI had the option of buying the upgrade from Avante Garde at commercial rates and fulfilling their contract. They chose to screw the users and keep their money without providing the contracted product. Sleezeball business practices. >>Like I've said before about shady business practices, the net >>has a long memory and a wide reach. >>The M2 compiler was finally provide _at shipping cost_ from >>Avante Garde in Plano TX after OXXI refused to honor their >>upgrade guarantee; nice people at A.G. >As I said, Oxxi could not "physically" upgrade you, since they legally couldn't >do it. See above. >My personal experience as developer with Oxxi is quite different. And irrelevant, except that it lined your pockets and makes your praise untrustworthy. >They have always offered quite inexpensive upgrades/updates (updates where >$8, major upgrades $35). I don't know from whom you got the idea of an upgrade >guarantee, but hardly any company has "free" upgrade guarantees, if that is >what you imply. If this goes on, I'll paw through my archives and repost the original comp.sys.amiga ad and bore everyone even further. The gist was simple: "our product is almost ready; send $199 + s&h _now_, receive the beta, get the beta add on libraries (normally $99 apiece) at no additional cost, and get the finished product complete with release software and release documentation when it is ready Real Soon Now." Pretty obviously, a company strapped for cash on a project looking for a way to keep a cash flow going and salaries paid until the released product would bring in some more money. Disadvantage to the purchaser: money out now, and only a known undebugged product in return. Advantage to the purchaser: "free" optional libraries and the full commercial version "eventually". I sent the $207 or so, and got the beta disks and docs. They just refused to complete the contract as written. >Making bold statements like the ones you make concerning a single product >and generalizing to a company's entire line, especially without giving out >the details involved, is what I call misinformation. Failing to keep contractual commitments, lying about delivery dates, failing to make promised phone call returns, refusing to answer mail, all "generalize to a company's entire line"; they are a standard of conduct having nothing to do with a particular product, but with the company, its management, and its attitude toward the customer. What you find "bold" in such statements baffles me. What we can _glean_ from all this, children, is that if OXXI finds itself in trouble again, it is the customer, not OXXI, who will do the suffering. I say it again. Keep away from them. No misinformation involved. I still have the check dates, the original USENet ad, the original order letter, and whatever else you might require about "the details involved", but this grows tedious and the point is already made. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> -- Is it may imagination, or was OXXI also not too long ago the home of a certain alpha release spreadsheet being passed off as a commercial product? Nah! Not those salt of the earth OXXI folk. They wouldn't sell a product not ready for market, and then alienate the developer and lose rights to the product without every making good on their obligations to their customers. Not twice in a row. Not as a company policy. Not at their customer's expense. Right.
mikhe@ida.liu.se (Mike Henry) (09/10/90)
In article <1275@ul-cs.ulowell.edu> jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu (John Richardson) writes: [ ...Stuff deleted... ] > Tasking would be *so* much easier in Ada. My only problem is > if Oxxi does publish Ada and SAS comes out with C++ 2.1 then > I'm gonna have to make a CHOICE in what OOP language I buy!!! Sorry, but if you want an OOP language you wouldn't want Ada. Yes, it does have some encapsulation and yes, it does have some datahiding but that doesn't make it an OOP language. The correct term would be an "Object Based Programming Language". Therefore if you'd want a full fledged OOP language you would probably be better of with C++, any day. Even though Ada, in my view, forces you to program correctly (ie if you get it though the compiler it usually works), it is extremly teadious to work with and the mechanizms that it introduces is outdated in the OOP world. Ok, I agree that an Amiga Ada compiler would help sell the machine to government contractors and that is good but Ada as a programming language isn't a good buy for anyone not forced to use it. Let's hope we will see more OOP languages for the Amiga, how about Smalltalk, Eifel, Self and others that more clearly implement the OOP paradigm than C++, in the sense that together with the language you get a programming environment that really makes OOP easy. I haven't seen ET++ on ANY machine and programming environments for Ada are to say the least scarce. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >< John Richardson < "I set the wheels in motion < >> jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu > turn on light and sound > >< University of Lowell < activate the programs < >> (just a student) > and watch the world go round..." > >< < --Neil Peart (RUSH) < >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -Mike -- Mike Henry INET : mikhe@ida.liu.se /// Alsattersg. 3C:20 /// S-582 51 Linkoping \\\/// What SWEDEN \XX/ Else??
jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu (John Richardson) (09/11/90)
In article <1990Sep10.085801.24717@ida.liu.se> mikhe@ida.liu.se (Mike Henry) writes: >In article <1275@ul-cs.ulowell.edu> jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu (John Richardson) writes: >> Tasking would be *so* much easier in Ada. My only problem is [...more stuff deleted...] >> I'm gonna have to make a CHOICE in what OOP language I buy!!! > >Sorry, but if you want an OOP language you wouldn't want Ada. Yes, it does >have some encapsulation and yes, it does have some datahiding but that doesn't I really don't think this is the place for a Ada vs. C++ flame war (not really started yet but I can smell the fire). Let's just say that the more high level languages that the Amiga supports the better off the machine is going to look to various programmers. Especially if the languages support some of the awesome Amiga OS features (read tasking). If Oxxi does go ahead with the Ada project and the compiler generates good code (not to many Ada compilers do) then we may get some US govt. projects that would otherwise go off into the Big Blue sky. By the way, I would really like to see a smalltalk for the Amiga too. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ < John Richardson < "I set the wheels in motion < > jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu > turn on light and sound > < University of Lowell < activate the programs < > (just a student) > and watch the world go round..." > < < --Neil Peart (RUSH) < ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu (John Richardson) (09/11/90)
In article <1990Sep10.085801.24717@ida.liu.ce> mikhe@ida.liu.se (Mike Henri) writes: >In article <1275@ul-cs.ulowell.edu> jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu (John Richardson) writes: >> Tasking would be *so* much easier in Ada. My only problem is [...more stuff deleted...] >> I'm gonna have to make a CHOICE in what OOP language I buy!!! > >Sorry, but if you want an OOP language you wouldn't want Ada. Yes, it does >have some encapsulation and yes, it does have some datahiding but that does.'t I really don't think this is the place for a Ada vs. C++ flame war (not really started yet but I can smell the fire). Let's just say that the more high level languages that the Amiga su`ports the better off the machine is going to look to various pbogrammers. Especially if the languages support some of the awes/me Amiga OS features (read task)ng). If Oxxi does go ahead with the Ada project and the compiler generates good code (not to many Ada compilers do) then we may get some US govt. projects that would otherwise go off into the Big Blue sky. By the way, I would really like to see a smalltalk for the Amiga too. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ < John Richardson < "I set the wheels in motion < > jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu > turn on light and sound > < University of Lowell < activate the progbams < > (just a student) > and watch the world go round..." > < < --Neil Peart (RUSH) < ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (09/12/90)
In article <1283@ul-cs.ulowell.edu> jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu (John Richardson) writes: >If Oxxi does go ahead with the Ada project and the compiler generates good >code (not to many Ada compilers do) then we may get some US govt. projects >that would otherwise go off into the Big Blue sky. To "juice up" the subject a little more, today I received my royalty check from Oxxi in a brand new Oxxi letterhead, which lists all Oxxi's products. One of the 28th products is listed as: Amiga(R) Ada(R) [(R) for registered trademark]. Enjoy. -- Marco -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Xerox sues somebody for copying?" -- David Letterman -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
schweige@cs.nps.navy.mil (Jeffrey M. Schweiger) (09/12/90)
In article <27074@usc.edu> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: >In article <1283@ul-cs.ulowell.edu> jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu (John Richardson) writes: >>If Oxxi does go ahead with the Ada project and the compiler generates good >>code (not to many Ada compilers do) then we may get some US govt. projects >>that would otherwise go off into the Big Blue sky. > >To "juice up" the subject a little more, today I received my royalty check >from Oxxi in a brand new Oxxi letterhead, which lists all Oxxi's products. > >One of the 28th products is listed as: > >Amiga(R) Ada(R) > >[(R) for registered trademark]. > >Enjoy. > >-- Marco I hope that this is true, but I also note that Amiga(R) Ada(R) does not appear on the September 1990 list of Ada compilers that have been validated by the Ada Joint Program Office (AJPO). For what its worth, there are presently 479 compilers on the September, 1990 list including entries for PC's (5 companies for MS/PC-DOS compilers, one OS/2 compiler writing company, and 7 companies writing Ada compilers for PC's running Unix, Xenix, etc), and for the Mac II running A/UX (one company, Alsys), and the Mac II and Mac SE/30 running system 6.0.3 (one company, Meridian). Oxxi is not presently listed as an Ada compiler vendor. [Amiga is a registered trademark of Commodore-Amiga, Inc. Ada is a registered trademark of the U.S. Government, Ada Joint Program Office]. Jeff Schweiger -- ******************************************************************************* Jeff Schweiger Standard Disclaimer CompuServe: 74236,1645 Internet (Milnet): schweige@cs.nps.navy.mil *******************************************************************************
jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu (John Richardson) (09/12/90)
>I hope that this is true, but I also note that Amiga(R) Ada(R) does not appear >on the September 1990 list of Ada compilers that have been validated by the >Ada Joint Program Office (AJPO). For what its worth, there are presently 479 [ %< ] Weelll, doesn't Ada have to pass a battery of tests before it is consitered an "Ada" by the U.S. Goverment (Ironman or something)? If Oxxi is just starting to work on the compiler maybe they haven't even submitted their to-be product to the tests yet and thus, they are not on the list of validated compilers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ < John Richardson < "I set the wheels in motion < > jrichard@hawk.ulowell.edu > turn on light and sound > < University of Lowell < activate the programs < > (just a student) > and watch the world go round..." > < < --Neil Peart (RUSH) < ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
sdl@linus.mitre.org (Steven D. Litvinchouk) (09/13/90)
In article <1393@cs.nps.navy.mil> schweige@cs.nps.navy.mil (Jeffrey M. Schweiger) writes: > In article <27074@usc.edu> papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) writes: > >To "juice up" the subject a little more, today I received my royalty check > >from Oxxi in a brand new Oxxi letterhead, which lists all Oxxi's products. > > > >One of the 28th products is listed as: > > > >Amiga(R) Ada(R) > > > >[(R) for registered trademark]. > > > > [Amiga is a registered trademark of Commodore-Amiga, Inc. Ada is a registered > trademark of the U.S. Government, Ada Joint Program Office]. I'm pretty sure that "Ada" is no longer a registered trademark of the U.S. AJPO. They let the trademark lapse. -- Steven Litvintchouk MITRE Corporation Burlington Road Bedford, MA 01730 (617)271-7753 ARPA: sdl@mbunix.mitre.org UUCP: ...{att,decvax,genrad,ll-xn,philabs,utzoo}!linus!sdl "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" -- J. Napier (a.k.a. "The Joker")