sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (08/29/90)
Did anyone catch this in the Vaporware column?: Sewall@UConnVM.BITNET (Murph Sewall) writes: >K-12 Macs. >The first two models in Apple's long awaited line of low >cost Macs are set for an October 15 unveiling. >... The >more powerful color machine, codenamed "Pinball," will be a >modular design closely resembling the Apple IIgs. Priced >between $3,000 and $4,000 with a SuperDrive and 40 Mbyte >hard disk, the Pinball is based on a 20 MHz 68030. After >the first of the year, Apple will introduce a $2,750 20 MHz >68020 system currently known as the Mac LC. Looks like Apple might start to become competitive with the Amiga soon. What gives? I just can't see Apple selling a 68030 color machine with hard drive for around the same price as an Amiga 3000. There has to be a catch. Probably will be that the floppy drive, keyboard, video card, and power cord are optional extras, that will cost another $3,000. -- And something else I saw in Murphy's column: >Another Sinclair. >Sir Clive Sinclair is looking for a partner to develop and >manufacture his design for a 200 MIP bipolar, battery >powered "hyper-RISC" processor than will use downloaded >microcode which will enable it to emulate any other >processor (including floating point I/O and memory >management). - InfoWorld 30 July er... yeah. 200 MIPs. Emulate any other processor. ...rriiiigght! If he pulls this off I will probably have to dump my Amiga and run right out and buy one of these machines. After all, it should easily emulate an Amiga, hmmmm? And an IBM, and a Mac, and let's not forget ... a Cray! Yeah, we will have the Timex-Sinclair Micro-Cray on a stick! -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
king@motcid.UUCP (Steven King) (09/06/90)
In article <2788@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >>Another Sinclair. >>Sir Clive Sinclair is looking for a partner to develop and >>manufacture his design for a 200 MIP bipolar, battery >>powered "hyper-RISC" processor than will use downloaded >>microcode which will enable it to emulate any other >>processor (including floating point I/O and memory >>management). - InfoWorld 30 July > >er... yeah. 200 MIPs. Emulate any other processor. ...rriiiigght! >If he pulls this off I will probably have to dump my Amiga and >run right out and buy one of these machines. After all, it should >easily emulate an Amiga, hmmmm? And an IBM, and a Mac, and let's not >forget ... a Cray! Yeah, we will have the Timex-Sinclair Micro-Cray on >a stick! I'd buy 200 MIPS for this thing. Don't forget, MIPS (Million Instructions Per Second) is not an indication of processor power! It's an indication of, quite literally, the speed at which a processor executes instructions. RISC chips by their very nature execute instructions very quickly; that's what they're designed to do. On the downside, you've gotta execute a LOT of instructions to get anything done. It's a trade-off. Which is better, the ability to execute instructions quickly but needing a lot of them to do anything, or executing instructions slowly and having a single instruction wax your car and walk your dog? Ah, the heart of the RISC vs. CISC debate! For the chip Sinclair is talking about, he needs RISC. I have no doubt he'll be able to achieve 200 Million Instructions Per Second. I also don't doubt that it's POSSIBLE for a single processor to emulate any other (yes, even to emulate a Cray). But, if it takes him 200 million instructions to emulate a single 68000 instruction I'd say it's not worth the trouble. -- ---------------------------------------------------+--------------------------- The trouble with living in sin is the shortage | Steve King (708) 991-8056 of closet space. | ...uunet!motcid!king (Missy Dizick) | ...ddsw1!palnet!stevek
cpca@iceman.jcu.oz (C Adams) (09/07/90)
In article <4393@grape3.UUCP>, king@motcid.UUCP (Steven King) writes: > I'd buy 200 MIPS for this thing. Don't forget, MIPS (Million Instructions > Per Second) is not an indication of processor power! It's an indication of, > quite literally, the speed at which a processor executes instructions. RISC > chips by their very nature execute instructions very quickly; that's what > they're designed to do. On the downside, you've gotta execute a LOT of > instructions to get anything done. It's a trade-off. Which is better, the > ability to execute instructions quickly but needing a lot of them to do > anything, or executing instructions slowly and having a single instruction > wax your car and walk your dog? Ah, the heart of the RISC vs. CISC debate! > Well I don't believe it is possible. Reading this article gives the impression that the machine is micro-coded, and that makes it all seem even less likely. Even Cray's aren't really quick unless running in vector mode. The rate of instruction fetch would have to be very high to get 200 million ops per second, let alone execute them. There are all sorts of problems like memory speeds, pipeline breaks etc. I think this is a joke and if you posted it to comp.arch it would probably been treated as such. followups to comp.arch please.... *************************************************************************** Colin Adams Life's funny but I don't laugh ***************************************************************************
GWO110%URIACC.BITNET@brownvm.brown.edu (F. Michael Theilig) (09/07/90)
On 29 Aug 90 13:38:27 GMT you said: >Did anyone catch this in the Vaporware column?: > >Sewall@UConnVM.BITNET (Murph Sewall) writes: >>K-12 Macs. >>The first two models in Apple's long awaited line of low >>cost Macs are set for an October 15 unveiling. >>... The >>more powerful color machine, codenamed "Pinball," will be a >>modular design closely resembling the Apple IIgs. Priced >>between $3,000 and $4,000 with a SuperDrive and 40 Mbyte >>hard disk, the Pinball is based on a 20 MHz 68030. After >>the first of the year, Apple will introduce a $2,750 20 MHz >>68020 system currently known as the Mac LC. > >Looks like Apple might start to become competitive with the Amiga soon. >What gives? I just can't see Apple selling a 68030 color machine with >hard drive for around the same price as an Amiga 3000. There has to be a >catch. Probably will be that the floppy drive, keyboard, video card, and >power cord are optional extras, that will cost another $3,000. > Remember that the title of the column you quoted has the word "vaporware" in it. I remember word of the "Amiga Killer" a few years back. A killer IIgs machine that was supposed to be MUCH faster then the Amiga and cheaper. Apple can put together some good stuff, but they don't have a grasp on the low end market. IBM has a better shot at the home computer market than Apple. October 12th will, however, prove interesting ... > > >-- >John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, >Email >sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. >A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash -------- F. Michael Theilig - The University of Rhode Island at Little Rest GWO110 at URIACC.Bitnet GKZ117 at URIACC.Bitnet "Magic work much better when there be bullets in the gun, asshole!"
rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) (09/07/90)
In article <4393@grape3.UUCP> king@motcid.UUCP (Steven King) writes: >In article <2788@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >>>Another Sinclair. >>>Sir Clive Sinclair is looking for a partner to develop and >>>manufacture his design for a 200 MIP bipolar, battery > >I'd buy 200 MIPS for this thing. Don't forget, MIPS (Million Instructions >Per Second) is not an indication of processor power! It's an indication of, >quite literally, the speed at which a processor executes instructions. It's becoming common for quoted "MIPS" ratings to actually mean performance on v1.1 of the (brain-dead) dhrystone benchmark, scaled relative to VAX 11/780 performance. To do this, you compile dhry, run it, take the reported figure, divide it by the magic number 1757 (what an 11/780 achieved at some point with some compiler), and voila! SPECmark figures are obtained much the same way, relative to 11/780 performance on the (much less brain-dead) SPEC suite. Using this definition of "MIPS", 200 is VERY respectable. Who knows what definition was implied in the Infoworld article. If it truly was "mega- instructions per second", then I agree that it's a near-worthless yardstick. >For the chip Sinclair is talking about, he needs RISC. I have no doubt he'll >be able to achieve 200 Million Instructions Per Second. I also don't doubt >that it's POSSIBLE for a single processor to emulate any other (yes, even to >emulate a Cray). But, if it takes him 200 million instructions to emulate a >single 68000 instruction I'd say it's not worth the trouble. Ah, I'd imagine it'd take a bit fewer than 200,000,000, for whatever RISC architecture he chooses. If not, he should choose a different one. :-) -- >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | (Steve) rehrauer@apollo.hp.com "Spontaneous human combustion - what luck!"| Apollo Computer (Hewlett-Packard)
donb@bushido.uucp (Donald Burnett) (09/10/90)
I just saw a PS/1 at my local Sears store here are my impressions: 1) Gosh what a small screen, looks like a Mac, but not Ergonomic. 2) Gosh how tiny that VGA screen is, hey it reminds me of an SX-64. 3) $1000 for the low-low end, $2000 for the high-end, OUCH sticker shock. This doesnt look very powerful. 4) DOS in ROM, what no real "WINDOWS".. What's this about office power for the home. I thought this was only supposed to be a machine with home applications for the home crowd, not the home office people. 5) Hey what's this IBM clone over here, it has a nicer BIGGER display and it cost less. Hey this is a nicer machine, it has a bigger screen. 6) I'd go crazy looking for this machine's display for any length of time. What this won't boot a 3.5" game.. Well it's only a display model. Am I impressed? Nahh, were the sales people knowledgable about it? nahh Were these selling, in three minutes of standing no sales people and someone else who is looking at it just picked up a laser pc clone because the display was "easier to read". This Sears was in Briarwood Mall in Ann Arbor MI. I can't say that I even thought this wasn't a competitive PC clone, just because the display was so little and hard to read. IBM has come home again.. -- **************************************************************** ********* donb@bushido.uucp ****** ********* "My Opinions are my own, not anyone else's ****** ********* Organizational Affiliations ****** ********* CreativEdge Systems, the Multimedia Solution ****** ********* The Computer Shoppe, Ypsilanti-Ann Arbor, MI's ****** ********* Commodore-Amiga Education Dealer ******
borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Boerge Noest) (09/10/90)
In article <940@iceman.jcu.oz> cpca@iceman.jcu.oz (C Adams) writes: > >There are all sorts of problems like memory speeds, pipeline breaks etc. >I think this is a joke and if you posted it to comp.arch it would probably >been treated as such. I wouldn't write it off as a joke. He has been working on this thing for some time; I think I first read about it 3 years ago. (and he has also been doing some interesting stuff with alternative data-media(I think it was(for FAST read/write))) >Colin Adams Life's funny but I don't laugh -- _____________________________________________________________________________ |/// borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Borge Nost) \\\| |// ...and then there was AMIGA... \\| |/ studying at the worlds northernmost university \|
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (09/11/90)
rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) writes: >Ah, I'd imagine it'd take a bit fewer than 200,000,000, for whatever RISC >architecture he chooses. If not, he should choose a different one. :-) Actually since the article mentioned that it had downloadable micro-code, wouldn't that meand that it would be neither RISC nor CISC, but something new maybe.... ooohh I don't know... PISC? Programable blah blah blah? I'll believe it when I see it. Maybe in another 10 years or so. But not today. -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) (09/12/90)
In article <1990Sep10.000409.4425@bushido.uucp> donb@bushido.uucp (Donald Burnett) writes:
[ a lot of negative opinions re the PS/1 ]
I should think that the first thing Commodore should do is try to convince
its users to stop behaving like school hackers in most of the messages one
reads here.Every negative comment re the Amiga receives a personal attack.
Every Amiga owner seems to think they have the answer to computing.
The Amiga 3000 is a very interesting computer, but I suspect that many people
are simply put off by the amount of negative postings that we see here. You've
got a nice product. Don't blow it by giving those of us who aren't Amiga users
the impression that one has to join a band of groupies to own an Amiga. A lot
of families find the PS/1 to their taste. Not everyone is a power user, and
many people feel secure with an IBM purchase.
Philip McDunnough
Professor of Statistics
University of Toronto
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
[my opinions]FelineGrace@cup.portal.com (Dana B Bourgeois) (09/13/90)
PC WEEK is still trying to decide whether they think the PS/1 is a good idea or not. For the last several weeks they are still split. Some think it is a good package for the home user and the marketing will make it successful. Others think that potential buyers are too savy to pay so much for so little. The market will prevail of course but you gotta wonder listening to the radio and TV commercials if they aren't trying to sell too little for too much. That said let me point out that PC WEEK (and other magazines) listen to their readers and if their readers want coverage then eventually they will get around to covering what their readers are interested in. I called PC WEEK and tried to get a compuserve address for their editor. He is Sam Whitmore and is currently between addresses right now. The assistant editor I talked to, Tony Pompili, said I could post his address with the understanding that thousands of Amiga Fanatics would not flood his mailbox with rude messages demanding PC WEEK change the course of their reporting. He is interested in hearing from us however, and so if you want to talk to PC WEEK, drop them a line at 72631,22. I sent a short, polite note asking them to consider including the Amiga in articles on video and multi-media where the Amiga has several natural advantages over the competition. In addition, if you have specific information on demos, rumors, announcements, or just plain corporate dirt, Spencer Kat is at 72631,107. Spencer is a pseudonym for a rumors column. And if your rumor is published they send a t-shirt or gym bag. Dana Bourgeois @ cup.portal.com