n350bq@tamuts.tamu.edu (Duane Fields) (09/05/90)
In the new Amiga World, there is an add for DCTV, a 24 bit frame buffer. Has anyone used this?? Creative Computers sells it for under $400, and sounds nice. It has digitize software and paint prg, but how good are they??? Duane
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (09/08/90)
In-Reply-To: message from n350bq@tamuts.tamu.edu I'm also curious about this product...or more to the point, curious whether or not it'll work on my A3000. Since it not only is used for display, but digitizes as well, that means it must plug into the parallel port. Am I right? Well, the RGB (15.75KHz) port and Centronics port on the A3000 are in no way configured like the A2000. I wonder if you could use cables on it??? It's kludgy, but whatever works... 24bit image manipulation for $495 (retail) is hard to pass up...and their screenshots were stunning (although they WERE abit small). Anyone from DC out there? Sean //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc | ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil | " Fanatics have their INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com | dreams, wherewith they | weave a paradise for RealWorld: Sean Cunningham | a sect. " Voice: (512) 994-1602 PLINK: ce3k* | -Keats | Call C.B.A.U.G. BBS (512) 883-8351 w/SkyPix | B^) VISION GRAPHICS B^) \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
donb@bushido.uucp (Donald Burnett) (09/10/90)
As far as I can tell it's an external box. Should work fine.. -- **************************************************************** ********* donb@bushido.uucp ****** ********* "My Opinions are my own, not anyone else's ****** ********* Organizational Affiliations ****** ********* CreativEdge Systems, the Multimedia Solution ****** ********* The Computer Shoppe, Ypsilanti-Ann Arbor, MI's ****** ********* Commodore-Amiga Education Dealer ******
ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) (09/12/90)
(I'm sure I'll be flamed if I'm getting this wrong, but I don't care. =) Isn't DCTV the box which gets 256 screen colors by intercepting a 640x400 16 color screen and combining each pair a pixels (4 bits each) into one 8-bit pixel? I know there is a box like this. In this case, all well and good, you get 256 out of 16million (I think) colors, but only in 320x400 (or variations... not 640 mode at any rate). This could be a consideration. I saw the box that did this at the World of Amiga and it did quite a good job. The actual screen in 640x400 16 color looked pretty funny though... (= Ceej aka Chris Hillery ceej@pawl.rpi.edu
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (09/12/90)
In article <RQB%S}@rpi.edu> ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) writes: > >Isn't DCTV the box which gets 256 screen colors by intercepting a 640x400 >16 color screen and combining each pair a pixels (4 bits each) into one >8-bit pixel? I know there is a box like this. In this case, all well and >good, you get 256 out of 16million (I think) colors, but only in 320x400 >(or variations... not 640 mode at any rate). This could be a consideration. Ah, is that really true? Just recently I wondered that such a device would be even simpler when built into the Amiga replacing the Video Hybrid chip. But I found for myself that this wouldn't be such a big advantage, because you don't get 256 colors! It's more limited in choice of possible color combinations than the ExtraHalfBright mode. I tried to imagine an algorithm to make up a palette for a certain set of needed colors for a certain image. But I found no solution. Well, perhaps they found one for the DCTV. But question to all: Is this really the trick they use? -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) (09/13/90)
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >In article <RQB%S}@rpi.edu> ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) writes: >> >>Isn't DCTV the box which gets 256 screen colors by intercepting a 640x400 >>16 color screen and combining each pair a pixels (4 bits each) into one >>8-bit pixel? I know there is a box like this. In this case, all well and >>good, you get 256 out of 16million (I think) colors, but only in 320x400 >>(or variations... not 640 mode at any rate). This could be a consideration. >Ah, is that really true? Just recently I wondered that such a device >would be even simpler when built into the Amiga replacing the Video >Hybrid chip. But I found for myself that this wouldn't be such a big >advantage, because you don't get 256 colors! It's more limited in choice >of possible color combinations than the ExtraHalfBright mode. I tried >to imagine an algorithm to make up a palette for a certain set of >needed colors for a certain image. But I found no solution. Nono, I don't think you understand what I was saying. Lemme try a li'l numerical example... On the Amiga's Screen: pixel 0: F pixel 1: 5 1111 0101 <- binary representation of pixels 0 and 1 in memory DCTV (or whatever the box was) gets this, and combines them to: On the DCTV output screen: pixel 0:F5 11110101 so this pixel is color F5, or 245. Then it sends this to the monitor, using whatever color happens to be in palette slot 245. Again, of course, this means you get 2-for-1, or 320 width, resolution. But, you do have 256 colors on the screen wherever you want them (ie, color 246 somewhere else would have a pixel of color F followed by a pixel of color 6; duplicate Amiga colors != duplicate output colors). This is why the actual picture the Amiga thinks its showing in 640x400 looks so weird. StdDisclaimer: Again, I don't know if DCTV is this device. I just know this device exists. I THINK that's what the DCTV is. Ceej aka Chris Hillery ceej@pawl.rpi.edu >Well, perhaps they found one for the DCTV. >But question to all: Is this really the trick they use? >-- >Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... >Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
huebner@aerospace.aero.org (Robert E. Huebner) (09/13/90)
In article <R-C%N%_@rpi.edu> ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) writes: >Again, of course, this means you get 2-for-1, or 320 width, resolution. >But, you do have 256 colors on the screen wherever you want them (ie, color >246 somewhere else would have a pixel of color F followed by a pixel of >color 6; duplicate Amiga colors != duplicate output colors). This is why >the actual picture the Amiga thinks its showing in 640x400 looks so weird. > >StdDisclaimer: Again, I don't know if DCTV is this device. I just know this >device exists. I THINK that's what the DCTV is. > Actually, the device you described sounds more like HAM-E from Black Belt Systems. This device (HAM-E) fits between the RGB port and the monitor on an A500 up to A2500 (A3000 de-interlaced would probably confuse the hell out of it). From what I've read, its waits for a certain signaling line at the top of a screen (first scanline) and then begins processing the picture to give you a HAM display with a 256 color register from a palette of ? (a lot). If this special scanline isn't present, HAM-E just passes the normal video through, resuling in a system that can co-exist with your workbench and so on. My impressions of DCTV from magazine articles (what little there has been) is that it is a compression system for outputting video to composite NTSC only. Supposedly a digitzed picture from DCTV can take as little as 33K of disk space (!?), and there are special paint programs that let you manipulate these special images. Hopefully we will get a peak at it when AmiExpo rolls through or something. If anyone has definite information on these new video enhancement products, please set the net.record straight. +---- Robert Huebner huebner@aerospace.aero.org The Aerospace Corporation +----
Radagast@cup.portal.com (sullivan - segall) (09/14/90)
>>> >>>Isn't DCTV the box which gets 256 screen colors by intercepting a 640x400 >>>16 color screen and combining each pair a pixels (4 bits each) into one >>>8-bit pixel? I know there is a box like this. In this case, all well and >>>good, you get 256 out of 16million (I think) colors, but only in 320x400 >>>(or variations... not 640 mode at any rate). This could be a consideration. > >>Ah, is that really true? Just recently I wondered that such a device >>would be even simpler when built into the Amiga replacing the Video >>Hybrid chip. But I found for myself that this wouldn't be such a big >>advantage, because you don't get 256 colors! It's more limited in choice >>of possible color combinations than the ExtraHalfBright mode. I tried >>to imagine an algorithm to make up a palette for a certain set of >>needed colors for a certain image. But I found no solution. > >Nono, I don't think you understand what I was saying. Lemme try a li'l >numerical example... > >On the Amiga's Screen: >pixel 0: F pixel 1: 5 > > 1111 0101 <- binary representation of pixels 0 and 1 in memory The name of the box that does this is the HAM-E device by Black Belt systems. Although 256 colors are theoretically possible, Black Belt limited the number to 240 colors, and gives you 16 palettes (reselectable on the fly) instead. In its other mode, the HAM-E device uses a base palette of 64 24bit colors, and then updates the 7 bits of either red, green, or blue, in a HAM like fashion for each pixel. DCTV is similar in some ways, but isn't limited to working with 4 hi-res bitplanes. Instead it takes advantage of certain redundancies in the NTSC signal definition and makes those combinations impossible to describe thereby making their data somewhat more compact. Thus the DCTV box is capable of somewhat greater output control, as long as the monitor is an NTSC monitor. Instead of changing RGB values like the HAM-E, the DCTV works with Hue, Saturation and Intensity. Since saturation and Hue are co-dependent, (changing one will also change the other over the next pixel or so which is why you get color fringes in NTSC signals when changing between certain colors) they are only modified half as often as the Intensity signal. In general you have control over Intensity on every pixel produced, but only have control over Hue and Saturation on alternate pixels. As a result, DCTV produces quite useful output with 3 bitplanes of high-res input. All of the above was gleaned from open discussions on BIX and from Digital Creations' presentation at the First Amiga Users Group in Palo Alto, California. Any misunderstandings or misrepresentations are purely my own... ...I do not speak for Digital Creations, nor are they accountable for anything I might imagine them to have said. -Sullivan_-_Segall (a.k.a. Radagast) _______________________________________________________________ /V\ "I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in ' cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." -- J. Edgar Hoover _______________________________________________________________ Mail to: ...sun!portal!cup.portal.com!radagast or radagast@cup.portal.com Bix: radagast
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (09/14/90)
In article <R-C%N%_@rpi.edu> ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) writes: >>>Isn't DCTV the box which gets 256 screen colors by intercepting a 640x400 >>>16 color screen and combining each pair a pixels (4 bits each) into one >>>8-bit pixel? I know there is a box like this. In this case, all well and > >On the Amiga's Screen: >pixel 0: F pixel 1: 5 > > 1111 0101 <- binary representation of pixels 0 and 1 in memory > >DCTV (or whatever the box was) gets this, and combines them to: > >On the DCTV output screen: >pixel 0:F5 11110101 > >so this pixel is color F5, or 245. Then it sends this to the monitor, using >whatever color happens to be in palette slot 245. Hmm, so they have own Color Lookup Table (CLU) circuitry built into their device? Anyone knows facts? -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
skank@du248-09.cc.iastate.edu (Skank George L) (09/14/90)
In article <403@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >In article <RQB%S}@rpi.edu> ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) writes: >> >>Isn't DCTV the box which gets 256 screen colors by intercepting a 640x400 >>16 color screen and combining each pair a pixels (4 bits each) into one >>8-bit pixel? I know there is a box like this. In this case, all well and >>good, you get 256 out of 16million (I think) colors, but only in 320x400 >>(or variations... not 640 mode at any rate). This could be a consideration. This falls into the current Amiga video discussion, try this idea on for size. A third party developer designs a video card that fits into one of the Amiga slots based on their favorite graphics coprocessor, Intuition is modified slightly so that all graphic operations can either execute using the standard Amiga graphics hardware *OR* they can use a jump table to jump to routines in autoconfig memory occupied by this hypothetical card. It also seemed to me that such a card would invariably be loaded with it's own dedicated graphics memory, freeing up chip ram and reducing bus contention. This seems as though this shouldn't be THAT difficult, however I just got my first Amiga a few days ago, so I have no REAL idea of the problems involved. The Macintosh uses a similar scheme unless I'm mistaken? On a similar note, I heard a rumor, I think it was printed in Amiga World, that Pixar, who did a very impressive graphics card for the Mac, was working on a similar card for the Amiga. Has anyone else heard this rumor, can anyone lend creedance to it one way or the other? -- George
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (09/14/90)
In article <1990Sep14.063455.5219@news.iastate.edu> skank@iastate.edu (Skank George L) writes: > > This falls into the current Amiga video discussion, try this idea on for >size. A third party developer designs a video card that fits into one of the >Amiga slots based on their favorite graphics coprocessor, Intuition is modified >slightly so that all graphic operations can either execute using the standard >Amiga graphics hardware *OR* they can use a jump table to jump to routines in >autoconfig memory occupied by this hypothetical card. It also seemed to me >that such a card would invariably be loaded with it's own dedicated graphics >memory, freeing up chip ram and reducing bus contention. This seems as though > -- George Well, this *IS* difficult, because the different parts of the operating system all depend on this current hardware, so a big part of the OS would have to be rewritten. Also you risk to lose some of the important Amiga features, eg being able to drag a screen and split your display into two or more screens with totally different display modes. I don't think you can teach a framebuffer card these tricks. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (09/15/90)
In-Reply-To: message from ceej@pawl.rpi.edu You're getting the Black-Belt HAM-E board mixed up with DCTV. DCTV does full 24bit color. They haven't stated any pixel resolution, just that it's NTSC, which is measured in MHz...something like 5-5.5MHz The HAM-E box is an entirely different beast. Sean //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc | ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil | " Fanatics have their INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com | dreams, wherewith they | weave a paradise for RealWorld: Sean Cunningham | a sect. " Voice: (512) 994-1602 PLINK: ce3k* | -Keats | Call C.B.A.U.G. BBS (512) 883-8351 w/SkyPix | B^) VISION GRAPHICS B^) \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\