stevem@hal.CSS.GOV (Steve Masters) (09/05/90)
On p.43 of the October AmigaWorld is an ad from Xetec for an Amiga CD-ROM system. As part of the ad, they say they will include with the system a CD-ROM with the Fred Fish library through #360. The ad says the system reads ISO9660/High Sierra discs...Is this the standard used in the CD-ROM data bases currently available? Put another way, is this reader good for anything today, or are we still some time away from putting this tremendous resource to use on our Amigas? Steve Masters stevem@hal.CSS.GOV ENSCO, Inc. Melbourne, FL USA 32940 (407) 254 4122
lupe@alanya.Central.Sun.COM (Lupe Christoph - Sun Germany Consulting - Munich) (09/05/90)
stevem@hal.CSS.GOV (Steve Masters) writes: >On p.43 of the October AmigaWorld is an ad from Xetec for an Amiga >CD-ROM system. As part of the ad, they say they will include with >the system a CD-ROM with the Fred Fish library through #360. Any pricing ? >The ad says the system reads ISO9660/High Sierra discs...Is this the standard >used in the CD-ROM data bases currently available? Put another way, is this >reader good for anything today, or are we still some time away from putting >this tremendous resource to use on our Amigas? Yes, ISO9660/High Sierra is the standard for CD-ROMs. E.g. the Sun CD-ROM "player" (it *has* an audio output) plus SunOS SW can deal with them. Would be interesting to try the CD-ROM on it. Any clue if the CD-ROM is offered *without* the player anywhere ? -- | lchristoph@Sun.COM (Internet) | Disclaimer: | | ...!unido!sunmuc!lupe (German EUNet, "bang") | My employer has a | | lupe@sunmuc.UUCP (German EUNet, domain) | non-exclusive license | | ...!suninfo!lchristoph (Sun Germany customers) | to my opinion. |
trantow@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Jerry J Trantow) (09/05/90)
In article <455@hal.CSS.GOV> stevem@hal.CSS.GOV (Steve Masters) writes: >On p.43 of the October AmigaWorld is an ad from Xetec for an Amiga CD-ROM system. >As part of the ad, they say they will include with the system a CD-ROM with the >Fred Fish library through #360. > > According to MacUser, March 90 " the first standard is High Sierra, named for a hotel in the California ski country north of Lake Tahoe where the standardization meetings were held. The second standard, ISO 9660 is a slightly modified version of High Sierra that was established by the International Standards Organization." From this, I would assume that the Fish disk,(didn't they use a snappy name?) will be readable on just about any CD Rom drive including Macs and IBMs. Do they give any other details such as price and which drive mechanism is used? _____________________________________________________________________________ Jerry J. Trantow | I swear by my life and my love of it, 1560 A. East Irving Place | that I will never live for the sake of another man, Milwaukee, Wi 53202-1460 | nor ask another man to live for mine. (414) 289-0503 | Ayn Rand _____________________________________________________________________________
xrtnt@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Nigel Tzeng) (09/05/90)
In article <lupe.652514356@alanya>, lupe@alanya.Central.Sun.COM (Lupe Christoph - Sun Germany Consulting - Munich) writes... ^stevem@hal.CSS.GOV (Steve Masters) writes: ^ ^>On p.43 of the October AmigaWorld is an ad from Xetec for an Amiga ^>CD-ROM system. As part of the ad, they say they will include with ^>the system a CD-ROM with the Fred Fish library through #360. ^ ^Any pricing ? $599 internal $699 external Model Number CDx-650i (CDx-650e for the external) ^ ^>The ad says the system reads ISO9660/High Sierra discs...Is this the standard ^>used in the CD-ROM data bases currently available? Put another way, is this ^>reader good for anything today, or are we still some time away from putting ^>this tremendous resource to use on our Amigas? ^ ^Yes, ISO9660/High Sierra is the standard for CD-ROMs. ^E.g. the Sun CD-ROM "player" (it *has* an audio output) plus SunOS SW ^can deal with them. Would be interesting to try the CD-ROM on it. ^Any clue if the CD-ROM is offered *without* the player anywhere ? I called xetec and they said they've been swamped with requests (small surprise) and that no discs will be available seperately for 3-4 weeks. I'm willing to bet that they are selling the drives as fast as they can pick up the phone ;-). Well...less than 2 weeks since this thread said "If only someone would sell a CD-Rom drive for under $1000 and include the Fish Collection with it...". BTW The naming debate is over...it's called "Fish & More" Vol. 1 CD-ROM (tm). The more part is some extra PD stuff gleaned from elsewhere. NT ^-- ^| lchristoph@Sun.COM (Internet) | Disclaimer: | ^| ...!unido!sunmuc!lupe (German EUNet, "bang") | My employer has a | ^| lupe@sunmuc.UUCP (German EUNet, domain) | non-exclusive license | ^| ...!suninfo!lchristoph (Sun Germany customers) | to my opinion. | PS For those who don't get A-Whirld the xetec order line is 800-445-0611. It's usually busy (at least when I tried yesterday and this morning). You can kind of circumvent this by going through the info line (913) 827-0685 where they will queue you (plus you can ask questions ;-). Evidently the 800 line has few slots for waiting customers so is busy much of the time. Nice staff...friendly and fairly informative. OBDis: I have nothing to do with xetec other than reading their ads. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- // | Nigel Tzeng - STX Inc - NASA/GSFC COBE Project \X/ | xrtnt@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov | Amiga | Standard Disclaimer Applies: The opinions expressed are my own.
IMS103@psuvm.psu.edu (Ian Matthew Smith) (09/06/90)
lupe@alanya.Central.Sun.COM (Lupe Christoph - Sun Germany Consulting - Munich) writes: >stevem@hal.CSS.GOV (Steve Masters) writes: > >>On p.43 of the October AmigaWorld is an ad from Xetec for an Amiga >>CD-ROM system. As part of the ad, they say they will include with >>the system a CD-ROM with the Fred Fish library through #360. > >Any pricing ? External version is listed at $699 and the internal version lists at $599. The internal version works with the 2000 and 3000, and the external version works with all models. >>The ad says the system reads ISO9660/High Sierra discs...Is this the standard >>used in the CD-ROM data bases currently available? Put another way, is this >>reader good for anything today, or are we still some time away from putting >>this tremendous resource to use on our Amigas? > >Yes, ISO9660/High Sierra is the standard for CD-ROMs. >E.g. the Sun CD-ROM "player" (it *has* an audio output) plus SunOS SW >can deal with them. Would be interesting to try the CD-ROM on it. The ad says it has audio jacks for sound. I wonder if you could digitize sound directly off a CD? Ian Smith <ims103@psuvm.bitnet>
david@twg.com (David S. Herron) (09/06/90)
In article <3339@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> xrtnt@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov writes: >In article <lupe.652514356@alanya>, lupe@alanya.Central.Sun.COM (Lupe Christoph - Sun Germany Consulting - Munich) writes... >BTW The naming debate is over...it's called "Fish & More" Vol. 1 CD-ROM (tm). ^^^^^^^^^^^ >The more part is some extra PD stuff gleaned from elsewhere. Waitaminnit.. I knew the 2 years I spent working at Long John Silvers would come in handy some day .. That's the name of one of the dinners at LJS! :-) (If I remember right, it's the one with 2 pieces of fish, hush puppies, cole slaw, and fries). -- <- David Herron, an MMDF & WIN/MHS guy, <david@twg.com> <- Formerly: David Herron -- NonResident E-Mail Hack <david@ms.uky.edu> <- <- Sign me up for one "I survived Jaka's Story" T-shirt!
joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) (09/06/90)
trantow@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Jerry J Trantow) writes: > > From this, I would assume that the Fish disk,(didn't they use a snappy name?) The name was "Fish & More" (A TV dinner perhaps? :^) > _____________________________________________________________________________ > Jerry J. Trantow | I swear by my life and my love of it, > 1560 A. East Irving Place | that I will never live for the sake of another ma > Milwaukee, Wi 53202-1460 | nor ask another man to live for mine. > (414) 289-0503 | Ayn Rand > _____________________________________________________________________________ -Joseph Hillenburg (Sultan of Asm) INET: joseph@valnet.uucp |MAIL: 1709 West Gray UUCP: ...!iuvax!valnet!joseph |MAIL: Bloomington, IN 47401 AT&T: 1-812-336-2969 |MAIL: United States CompSci BBS: 3/12/24 1-812-876-4407 9:30 pm-7:30 am |Mail replies requested Those aren't bugs! Just undesirable features! ! Just undesirable features!
stevem@sauron.Columbia.NCR.COM (Steve McClure) (09/07/90)
In article <90248.132524IMS103@psuvm.psu.edu> IMS103@psuvm.psu.edu (Ian Matthew Smith) writes: +lupe@alanya.Central.Sun.COM (Lupe Christoph + - Sun Germany Consulting - Munich) writes: +>stevem@hal.CSS.GOV (Steve Masters) writes: +> +>>On p.43 of the October AmigaWorld is an ad from Xetec for an Amiga +>>CD-ROM system. As part of the ad, they say they will include with +>>the system a CD-ROM with the Fred Fish library through #360. +> +>Any pricing ? + +External version is listed at $699 and the internal version +lists at $599. The internal version works with the 2000 and +3000, and the external version works with all models. + [ stuff about formats deleted ] How can a 5 1/4" form factor fit internally in a 3000? I also didn't know that there were any 1/2 height drives to fit in the 2000 5 1/4" slot. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve email: Steve.McClure@Columbia.NCR.COM 803-791-7054 The above are my opinions, which NCR doesn't really care about anyway! CAUSER's Amiga BBS! | 803-796-3127 | 8pm-8am 8n1 | 300/1200/2400
donb@bushido.uucp (Donald Burnett) (09/07/90)
In article <4au2o5w163w@valnet> joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) writes: >trantow@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Jerry J Trantow) writes: > >> >> From this, I would assume that the Fish disk,(didn't they use a snappy name?) > >The name was "Fish & More" (A TV dinner perhaps? :^) >> _____________________________________________________________________________ >> Jerry J. Trantow | I swear by my life and my love of it, >> 1560 A. East Irving Place | that I will never live for the sake of another ma >> Milwaukee, Wi 53202-1460 | nor ask another man to live for mine. >> (414) 289-0503 | Ayn Rand >> _____________________________________________________________________________ > > > -Joseph Hillenburg (Sultan of Asm) >INET: joseph@valnet.uucp |MAIL: 1709 West Gray >UUCP: ...!iuvax!valnet!joseph |MAIL: Bloomington, IN 47401 >AT&T: 1-812-336-2969 |MAIL: United States >CompSci BBS: 3/12/24 1-812-876-4407 9:30 pm-7:30 am |Mail replies requested > Those aren't bugs! Just undesirable features! >! Just undesirable features! Note to everyone: This Fish and more contains the Fish Collection thru FF#360 and can be had Free with the Purchase of Xetec's new CD-ROM, which sells for around $600 (according to the Amigaworld ad). This CDROM uses CDTV format ISO9660/High Sierra format and can play audio. -- **************************************************************** ********* donb@bushido.uucp ****** ********* "My Opinions are my own, not anyone else's ****** ********* Organizational Affiliations ****** ********* CreativEdge Systems, the Multimedia Solution ****** ********* The Computer Shoppe, Ypsilanti-Ann Arbor, MI's ****** ********* Commodore-Amiga Education Dealer ******
utoddl@uncecs.edu (Todd M. Lewis) (09/07/90)
In article <455@hal.CSS.GOV> stevem@hal.CSS.GOV (Steve Masters) writes: >On p.43 of the October AmigaWorld is an ad from Xetec for an Amiga CD-ROM system. >As part of the ad, they say they will include with the system a CD-ROM with the >Fred Fish library through #360. Interesting! I wonder how they deal with the copyright restrictions on some of the pieces in the Fish library which can only be destributed by Fred Fish. Perhaps by including the entire library (to date) they can get away with it. We should be glad, I suppose, that most of the people submitting software to Mr. Fish's library don't have schools of piranha lawyers lurking in shallow pools waiting to sturr up some trouble over whether this CD-ROM thing constitutes a profit-making entity or whether it is still "distribution by Fred Fish" as spelled out in several item's distribution restrictions. For the record, all my stuff on the Fish Disks is for free distribution. I'm thinking of a new classification: Forced Distribution-- all users will be _required_ to at least try to give at least one copy to someone else, assuming that the recipient agrees to these terms. There will be an exemption for those computer nerds who's only friend is their Amiga. (Shudders on the first paragraph, smileys on the second.) >Steve Masters stevem@hal.CSS.GOV _____ | Todd M. Lewis Disclaimer: If you want my employer's ||\/| utoddl@ecsvax.uncecs.edu ideas, you'll have to || || utoddl@ecsvax.bitnet, @unc.bitnet _buy_ them. | || utoddl@next1.mscre.unc.edu |___ ("Prgrms wtht cmmnts r lk sntncs wtht vwls." --TML)
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (09/08/90)
In-Reply-To: message from lupe@alanya.Central.Sun.COM The price in their ad for the CD-ROM was $599 for the internal A2x00/A3000 version, and $699 for the external version. Not to bad when you consider how much Apple's CD drive costs...not to mention getting Fish disks 1-360!!! Sean //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc | ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil | " Fanatics have their INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com | dreams, wherewith they | weave a paradise for RealWorld: Sean Cunningham | a sect. " Voice: (512) 994-1602 PLINK: ce3k* | -Keats | Call C.B.A.U.G. BBS (512) 883-8351 w/SkyPix | B^) VISION GRAPHICS B^) \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
BAXTER_A@wehi.dn.mu.oz (09/09/90)
In article <1990Sep7.144544.17517@uncecs.edu>, utoddl@uncecs.edu (Todd M. Lewis) writes: > In article <455@hal.CSS.GOV> stevem@hal.CSS.GOV (Steve Masters) writes: >>On p.43 of the October AmigaWorld is an ad from Xetec for an Amiga CD-ROM system. >>As part of the ad, they say they will include with the system a CD-ROM with the >>Fred Fish library through #360. > > Interesting! I wonder how they deal with the copyright restrictions > on some of the pieces in the Fish library which can only be destributed > by Fred Fish. Perhaps by including the entire library (to date) they > can get away with it. We should be glad, I suppose, that most of the > people submitting software to Mr. Fish's library don't have schools > of piranha lawyers lurking in shallow pools waiting to sturr up > some trouble over whether this CD-ROM thing constitutes a profit-making > entity or whether it is still "distribution by Fred Fish" as spelled out > in several item's distribution restrictions. As far as I am concerned, it seems that the price for the drive is so reasonable that the CD is being included as an incentive to buy, and not being sold for profit. I have no problems with this release. Regards Alan
cosell@bbn.com (Bernie Cosell) (09/09/90)
BAXTER_A@wehi.dn.mu.oz writes: }In article <1990Sep7.144544.17517@uncecs.edu>, utoddl@uncecs.edu (Todd M. Lewis) writes: }> In article <455@hal.CSS.GOV> stevem@hal.CSS.GOV (Steve Masters) writes: }>>On p.43 of the October AmigaWorld is an ad from Xetec for an Amiga CD-ROM system. }>>As part of the ad, they say they will include with the system a CD-ROM with the }>>Fred Fish library through #360. }> }> Interesting! I wonder how they deal with the copyright restrictions }> on some of the pieces in the Fish library which can only be destributed }> by Fred Fish.... }As far as I am concerned, it seems that the price for the drive is so }reasonable that the CD is being included as an incentive to buy, and not }being sold for profit. I have no problems with this release. As we have belabored endlessly here or elsewhere, if something is copyrighted you can't *give* it away, either. Only the copyright holder can authorize _distribution_ of the work, regardless of the form or cost. /Bernie\
bscott@nyx.UUCP (Ben Scott) (09/12/90)
In article <12542@wehi.dn.mu.oz> BAXTER_A@wehi.dn.mu.oz writes: >As far as I am concerned, it seems that the price for the drive is so >reasonable that the CD is being included as an incentive to buy, and not >being sold for profit. I have no problems with this release. The key, in my understanding, to whether they could be considered to be selling it for profit or not is whether it is available from them separately. It is like the sweepstakes laws - you can't make someone buy anything to enter a sweepstakes, so you always have to provide an address they can write to or something which will get them the entry form without buying the whatever it is. They may put it in microscopic print but it has to be there someplace. Same deal with Xetec - they may not be advertising the availability of the Fish disk separately (understandable considering the small number of Amiga CD ROM systems out so far) but if they are not offering it separately at all (for "reasonable cost of duplication" etc.) it is the same as selling it. Question: it is my understanding that these systems are sold "complete", as in packaged with a SCSI interface. I don't suppose Xetec sells them without an interface? Too much to ask. But it would be annoing to have to buy another SCSI interface if you already have one... unless, of course, their drive does not conform to any known existing spec on the Amiga... NAAAH - never happen, eh? . <<<<Infinite K>>>> -- .---------------------------------------------------------------------------. |Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver| |Amiga UUCP node domain: bscott@vila.denver.co.us Else: bscott@nyx.cs.du.edu| |FIDO point address 1:104/421.2, or call the Arvada 68K BBS at (303)424-9831| |"Don't embarrass us..." "Have I ever?" - Buckaroo Banzai | *AMIGA POWER* | `---------------------------------------------------------------------------'
mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (09/12/90)
In article <2072@nyx.UUCP> bscott@nyx.UUCP (Ben Scott) writes:
Same deal with Xetec - they may not be advertising the availability of the
Fish disk separately (understandable considering the small number of Amiga
CD ROM systems out so far) but if they are not offering it separately at all
(for "reasonable cost of duplication" etc.) it is the same as selling it.
Considering how lax the phrase "reasonable cost of duplication" is,
they can probably get away by charging the cost of the CD-ROM drive
for it. After all, if they've allocated all they made to being given
away with the CD-ROM drives, then charging someone just the costs of a
second run of only 1 is going to be rather expensive.
As a second thought, is there anything in any of the of the licensing
that says that you have to give the software away to anyone who asks?
In other words, if I offered to give copies of the complete Fish
collection only to people who met whatever criterion I chose, is that
illegal? If not, then why should making that criterion "the first 1000
people who purchase CD-ROM drives from me after August 1, 1990"?
Of course, there's another reason why Xetec giving away that CD-ROM
may be illegal - whether they're selling it or not. There's software
which has it's distribution limited in some way, with an exception for
Fred Fish. I wouldn't be surprised to find that Xetec is violating
those restictions, even if they aren't violating the "no commercial
sale" clauses.
<mike
--
And then I saw her... Mike Meyer
She was a bright red '64 GTO mwm@relay.pa.dec.com
With fins and gills like some giant piranha fish, decwrl!mwm
Some obscene phallic symbol on wheels.jmeissen@ogicse.ogi.edu (John Meissen) (09/12/90)
In article <MWM.90Sep11170548@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) writes: >.......... I wouldn't be surprised to find that Xetec is violating >those restictions, even if they aren't violating the "no commercial >sale" clauses. Two points: 1. The whole point of the Fish collection is to provide an organized distribution of PD, ShareWare, FreeWare, etc., software. If people didn't want their stuff to have wide distribution they wouldn't have given it to Fred in the first place. It doesn't make any sense to restrict free distribution to Fred. 2. If you tell Xetec you DON'T want the Fish CD-ROM and they still charge you $599, then they are NOT selling the disc for profit. Plus, they aren't offering a collection of software originally found on the Fish discs, but rather they are offering the Fish discs themselves on CD-ROM, which I think maintains at least the spirit of the collection. Personally, I applaud Xetec, and hope that they make the CD-ROM available seperately for a reasonable price (less than $50). I don't understand why everyone feels the need to pick on them for putting into practice what everyone else could only talk about. -- John Meissen .............................. Oregon Advanced Computing Institute jmeissen@oacis.org (Internet) | "That's the remarkable thing about life; ..!sequent!oacis!jmeissen (UUCP) | things are never so bad that they can't jmeissen (BIX) | get worse." - Calvin & Hobbes
amhartma@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Andy Hartman - AmigaMan) (09/12/90)
My God! Leave it to the people on C.S.A. to shoot the little white bird of happiness! Bitch about something not being available and then complain about it when it does come out... (half a smiley...) AMH * Andy Hartman | I'd deny half of this crap anyway!| "Somedays, you just * Indiana University | amhartma@silver.ucs.indiana.edu | can't get rid of a * // Amiga Man | AMHARTMA@rose.ucs.indiana.edu | bomb!" * \X/ At Large! | or just "Hey putz!" | - Batman (original)
utoddl@uncecs.edu (Todd M. Lewis) (09/12/90)
In article <12058@ogicse.ogi.edu> jmeissen@ogicse.ogi.edu (John Meissen) writes: >Personally, I applaud Xetec, and hope that they make the CD-ROM available >seperately for a reasonable price (less than $50). I don't understand >why everyone feels the need to pick on them for putting into practice >what everyone else could only talk about. Nobody is picking on them. We all wish them well. We all hope what they are doing is legal. We all hope no swarms of former Apple lawers swoop down on them and fill the headlines with "Amiga-related Lawsuits rampant: Stick with MS-DOS and Macs". We all wish we had a CD-ROM with the Fish library on it. Strickly vegetarian opinions here -- we have no beef. -- Todd (which "d" is silent anyway?) Lewis.
xrtnt@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Nigel Tzeng) (09/12/90)
In article <12695@wehi.dn.mu.oz>, BAXTER_A@wehi.dn.mu.oz writes... ^In article <2072@nyx.UUCP>, bscott@nyx.UUCP (Ben Scott) writes: ^> In article <12542@wehi.dn.mu.oz> BAXTER_A@wehi.dn.mu.oz writes: ^>>As far as I am concerned, it seems that the price for the drive is so ^>>reasonable that the CD is being included as an incentive to buy, and not ^>>being sold for profit. I have no problems with this release. ^> ^> The key, in my understanding, to whether they could be considered to be ^> selling it for profit or not is whether it is available from them separately. ^> It is like the sweepstakes laws - you can't make someone buy anything to ^> enter a sweepstakes, so you always have to provide an address they can write ^> to or something which will get them the entry form without buying the whatever ^> it is. They may put it in microscopic print but it has to be there someplace. ^> Same deal with Xetec - they may not be advertising the availability of the ^> Fish disk separately (understandable considering the small number of Amiga ^> CD ROM systems out so far) but if they are not offering it separately at all ^> (for "reasonable cost of duplication" etc.) it is the same as selling it. ^> ^> Question: it is my understanding that these systems are sold "complete", ^> as in packaged with a SCSI interface. I don't suppose Xetec sells them ^> without an interface? ^ ^Hmmm. You have definately hit the nail on the head there. I suspect that to ^conform to my distibution conditions, that would have to be the case. ^Can someone post the Xetec address/email/snail/fax number? ^ ^May as well get the ball rolling. Hang in there folks, we're in for a ^rough ride, but were gonna all get a CD out of this:-) ^ ^Regards Alan Look guys...chill out. Not two months ago people were whining that there wasn't a Fish collection or a CD-Rom drive for a reasonable price. Now there is and still people are upset. Talking to xetec about purchasing a Fish CD sans drive the response was "We're trying to meet our drive orders...there wont be any spares for a while..." Worry about it then okay? In the interest of providing useful information (rather than just a mild flame ;-) the xetec number is (913) 827-0685. Also the comment that someone else made to the effect of charging for "cost of production" is interesting. I asked around and it seems that the ballpark for making a master (once you get the data in the right format) is $2000. Unit costs of course depend on number of disks produced. BTW: NSSDC (located at Goddard) has a CD collection that contains some of the more popular star catalogs. There are also collections of CD from indivdual projects that contain images (say Voyager or Viking etc) but I have no idea how to request those. The data (if releasable at all) is the governmental PD which I think the rules are that you may not resell the data unless you provide "value added" to it. I'd have to ask for sure. If any are very interested I can go ask for a address or phone number (meaning find someone willing to field any largish volume of requests). However I'd heard the normal volume is one or two disks per month sent out so swamping them may not produce great results ;-). NT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- // | Nigel Tzeng - STX Inc - NASA/GSFC COBE Project \X/ | xrtnt@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov | Amiga | Standard Disclaimer Applies: The opinions expressed are my own.
mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (09/12/90)
In article <12058@ogicse.ogi.edu> jmeissen@ogicse.ogi.edu (John Meissen) writes: In article <MWM.90Sep11170548@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) writes: >.......... I wouldn't be surprised to find that Xetec is violating >those restictions, even if they aren't violating the "no commercial >sale" clauses. Two points: 1. The whole point of the Fish collection is to provide an organized distribution of PD, ShareWare, FreeWare, etc., software. If people didn't want their stuff to have wide distribution they wouldn't have given it to Fred in the first place. It doesn't make any sense to restrict free distribution to Fred. I basically agree with you, but I know I've seen packages go by that had restrictions, along with exemptions for Fred Fish. I also had a package that I was going to submit (never happened because the other fellow was to busy to provide what I needed from him) that would have been restricted to being distributed only via the Fish disks. The reasons had to do with not wanting adultrated copies running around, and worries about loss of copyright (all of which were caused by the same other guy). Personally, I applaud Xetec, and hope that they make the CD-ROM available seperately for a reasonable price (less than $50). I don't understand why everyone feels the need to pick on them for putting into practice what everyone else could only talk about. I agree. They are doing the Amiga community a service; anyone taking legal action to get them to stop is doing the Amiga community a disservice. <mike -- [Our regularly scheduled .signature preempted.] Mike Meyer The Amiga 1000: Let's build _the_ hackers machine. mwm@relay.pa.dec.com The Amiga 500: Let's build one as cheaply as possible! decwrl!mwm The Amiga 2000: Let's build one inside an IBM PC!
BAXTER_A@wehi.dn.mu.oz (09/13/90)
In article <2072@nyx.UUCP>, bscott@nyx.UUCP (Ben Scott) writes: > In article <12542@wehi.dn.mu.oz> BAXTER_A@wehi.dn.mu.oz writes: >>As far as I am concerned, it seems that the price for the drive is so >>reasonable that the CD is being included as an incentive to buy, and not >>being sold for profit. I have no problems with this release. > > The key, in my understanding, to whether they could be considered to be > selling it for profit or not is whether it is available from them separately. > It is like the sweepstakes laws - you can't make someone buy anything to > enter a sweepstakes, so you always have to provide an address they can write > to or something which will get them the entry form without buying the whatever > it is. They may put it in microscopic print but it has to be there someplace. > Same deal with Xetec - they may not be advertising the availability of the > Fish disk separately (understandable considering the small number of Amiga > CD ROM systems out so far) but if they are not offering it separately at all > (for "reasonable cost of duplication" etc.) it is the same as selling it. > > Question: it is my understanding that these systems are sold "complete", > as in packaged with a SCSI interface. I don't suppose Xetec sells them > without an interface? Hmmm. You have definately hit the nail on the head there. I suspect that to conform to my distibution conditions, that would have to be the case. Can someone post the Xetec address/email/snail/fax number? May as well get the ball rolling. Hang in there folks, we're in for a rough ride, but were gonna all get a CD out of this:-) Regards Alan
david@twg.com (David S. Herron) (09/13/90)
In article <MWM.90Sep12104408@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) writes: >In article <12058@ogicse.ogi.edu> jmeissen@ogicse.ogi.edu (John Meissen) writes: > In article <MWM.90Sep11170548@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) writes: > >.......... I wouldn't be surprised to find that Xetec is violating > >those restictions, even if they aren't violating the "no commercial > >sale" clauses. > > Two points: > 1. The whole point of the Fish collection is to provide an organized > distribution of PD, ShareWare, FreeWare, etc., software. If people > didn't want their stuff to have wide distribution they wouldn't have > given it to Fred in the first place. It doesn't make any sense to > restrict free distribution to Fred. > >I basically agree with you, but I know I've seen packages go by that >had restrictions, along with exemptions for Fred Fish. What's different between Xetec redistributions of Fish disks and the shareware disk-duplicators doing the same thing? I know that I've seen some of 'em offering Fish disks.. And I know that they charge money for the disks. Or, for that matter, most of the magazines do the same thing -- sell the Fish disks for $5 a pop or so. One difference is the medium. The shareware disk-duplicators do it only floppy, not CD-ROM. But big deal.. as long as it's the same bits then who should care? Whah, I think y'all are makin' an ocean out've a fish pond... ;-) -- <- David Herron, an MMDF & WIN/MHS guy, <david@twg.com> <- Formerly: David Herron -- NonResident E-Mail Hack <david@ms.uky.edu> <- <- Sign me up for one "I survived Jaka's Story" T-shirt!
JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) (09/14/90)
Essentially, what Xetec is doing is this:
"Look! Elsewhere, the CHEAPEST you can get fish disks for is $2 apiece
if you buy in quantity. We can beat that price! We'll charge you $595
for disks 1-360, a $125 savings over the $720 you'd pay at $2 apiece.
And look! We'll even throw in an internal CD-ROM drive for free!!"
I don't care what anyone says, that's one heckuva deal. Let's not
hear any more whining, please?
Kurt
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|| Kurt Tappe (215) 363-9485 || Amigas, Macs, IBM's, C-64's, NeXTs, ||
|| 184 W. Valley Hill Rd. || Apple ]['s.... I use 'em all. ||
|| Malvern, PA 19355-2214 || (and in that order too! ;-) ||
|| jkt100@psuvm.psu.edu --------------------------------------||
|| jkt100@psuvm.bitnet jkt100%psuvm.bitnet@psuvax1 QLink: KurtTappe ||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) (09/14/90)
david@twg.com (David S. Herron) writes: > In article <MWM.90Sep12104408@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (M > >In article <12058@ogicse.ogi.edu> jmeissen@ogicse.ogi.edu (John Meissen) wri > > In article <MWM.90Sep11170548@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mik > > >.......... I wouldn't be surprised to find that Xetec is violating > > >those restictions, even if they aren't violating the "no commercial > > >sale" clauses. > > > > Two points: > > 1. The whole point of the Fish collection is to provide an organized > > distribution of PD, ShareWare, FreeWare, etc., software. If people > > didn't want their stuff to have wide distribution they wouldn't have > > given it to Fred in the first place. It doesn't make any sense to > > restrict free distribution to Fred. > > > >I basically agree with you, but I know I've seen packages go by that > >had restrictions, along with exemptions for Fred Fish. > > > > What's different between Xetec redistributions of Fish disks and > the shareware disk-duplicators doing the same thing? I know that > I've seen some of 'em offering Fish disks.. And I know that they > charge money for the disks. Or, for that matter, most of the magazines > do the same thing -- sell the Fish disks for $5 a pop or so. > > One difference is the medium. The shareware disk-duplicators do it > only floppy, not CD-ROM. But big deal.. as long as it's the same bits > then who should care? > > Whah, I think y'all are makin' an ocean out've a fish pond... ;-) > -- > <- David Herron, an MMDF & WIN/MHS guy, <david@twg.com> > <- Formerly: David Herron -- NonResident E-Mail Hack <david@ms.uky.edu> > <- > <- Sign me up for one "I survived Jaka's Story" T-shirt! Well...the ad said 400 megs for 360 disks. This means that they did dearchive the .arc, .zoo and .LZH files, but you decide whether that counts. You an bet Xatec also modified the scripts so that the programs run off the CD-ROM, as well. -Joseph Hillenburg UUCP: ...iuvax!valnet!joseph INET: joseph@valnet.UUCP ARPA: valnet!joseph@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu ph@valnet.UUCP ARPA: valnet!joseph@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu
joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) (09/15/90)
JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) writes: > Essentially, what Xetec is doing is this: > > "Look! Elsewhere, the CHEAPEST you can get fish disks for is $2 apiece > if you buy in quantity. We can beat that price! We'll charge you $595 > for disks 1-360, a $125 savings over the $720 you'd pay at $2 apiece. > And look! We'll even throw in an internal CD-ROM drive for free!!" > > I don't care what anyone says, that's one heckuva deal. Let's not > hear any more whining, please? > > Kurt > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > || Kurt Tappe (215) 363-9485 || Amigas, Macs, IBM's, C-64's, NeXTs, || > || 184 W. Valley Hill Rd. || Apple ]['s.... I use 'em all. || > || Malvern, PA 19355-2214 || (and in that order too! ;-) || > || jkt100@psuvm.psu.edu --------------------------------------|| > || jkt100@psuvm.bitnet jkt100%psuvm.bitnet@psuvax1 QLink: KurtTappe || > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- They even decompressed all those annoying archives too. Note thayt the ad says 360 disks, but 400+ megs of software. This is a dead giveaway. BTW...they also fooled around with the script files so that they would work properly for the way the CD-ROM is set up. Does anyone know if the CD-ROM is partitioned or if each disk has it's own dir? -Joseph Hillenburg UUCP: ...iuvax!valnet!joseph INET: joseph@valnet.UUCP ARPA: valnet!joseph@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu ARPA: valnet!joseph@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (09/16/90)
In <27890@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, c150-ec@danube.Berkeley.EDU (Johnson Sieu) writes: > Why don't they sell other stuff on CD besides the Fred Fish? How about > an encyclopeadia or a Thesaurus? Because everything has to start somewhere. The longest journey starts with a single CD. -larry -- It is not possible to both understand and appreciate Intel CPUs. -D.Wolfskill +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
c150-ec@danube.Berkeley.EDU (Johnson Sieu) (09/17/90)
Why don't they sell other stuff on CD besides the Fred Fish? How about an encyclopeadia or a Thesaurus? Johnson email: sieu@cory.berkeley.edu
joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) (09/17/90)
c150-ec@danube.Berkeley.EDU (Johnson Sieu) writes: > > Why don't they sell other stuff on CD besides the Fred Fish? How about > an encyclopeadia or a Thesaurus? > > > Johnson > email: sieu@cory.berkeley.edu Because thats not Fred's job. People are satisfied with a CD-ROM that just has Fish disks on it. hell, I'm happey getting $700+ of free software when I buy a cheap SCSI CD-ROM...what would be nice is a "SysOp's Edition" that contained the entire collection LHArced so that it'd be easy to put on a BBS... -Joseph Hillenburg UUCP: ...iuvax!valnet!joseph INET: joseph@valnet.UUCP ARPA: valnet!joseph@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu
huebner@aerospace.aero.org (Robert E. Huebner) (09/17/90)
In article <27890@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c150-ec@danube.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Johnson Sieu) writes: > > Why don't they sell other stuff on CD besides the Fred Fish? How about > an encyclopeadia or a Thesaurus? > I think the Fred Fish is just the "tip of the iceberg" in CD-ROM. The player being marketed now is the first Commodore CD-ROM drive available, so they had to start somewhere (and I think F.F. was a great choice - something uniquely Amigan). Since this drive uses High Sierra standard format (well, sort of standard), you will probably find things like Encyclopedias very soon. These sort of things are very popular on CD format (but not cheap) BTW- Has anyone actually recieve/hooked-up one of these drives? And what are the possibilities using existing High-sierra disks with it. I assume the Amiga will need some sort of software to search these non-Amiga disks? Also, is the magazine ad true in claiming that it will read CDTV disks? +---- Robert Huebner huebner@aerospace.aero.org @en.ecn.purdue.edu The Aerospace Corporation Purdue University +----
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (09/18/90)
bscott@nyx.UUCP (Ben Scott) writes: >Same deal with Xetec - they may not be advertising the availability of the >Fish disk separately (understandable considering the small number of Amiga >CD ROM systems out so far) but if they are not offering it separately at all >(for "reasonable cost of duplication" etc.) it is the same as selling it. Ben, you just said that if they aren't selling it then they are selling it. There is nothing wrong with giving something away free, but not selling it separately. How does that affect profitability? The only way they would be guilty of trying to make a profit off of the disk would be if they said "NEW! Fred Fish disk.....only $1000" or some other outrageous price. Giving it away free is not making a profit. Call them up and ask if they will sell you their drive cheaper if you don't want the fish disk, I don't think they will. However, if they say "sure. we'll knock off $100" then you can say they are trying to make a profit off of the fish disk. Maybe. -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (09/18/90)
>> Question: it is my understanding that these systems are sold "complete", >> as in packaged with a SCSI interface. I don't suppose Xetec sells them >> without an interface? I didn't read anything like that in the ad. It may come with a SCSI interface but that is not the same as a SCSI controller. The controller sits in your computer, the interface would be the part that sits on the the drive that talks to your controller and the drive. -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (09/18/90)
joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) writes: >Well...the ad said 400 megs for 360 disks. This means that they did >dearchive the .arc, .zoo and .LZH files, but you decide whether that >counts. You an bet Xatec also modified the scripts so that the programs >run off the CD-ROM, as well. Well, it contains more than just the fish disks the ad said, thats why it was called Fish & More. I'll betcha that xetec DIDN't modify any of the disks at all. That would have been a lot of trouble to go to. I think they probably just made 360 directories and copied the disks verbatim to those directories. The same for the rest of the software on the disc. The root directory probably looks like this Fish001/ Fish002/ Fish003/ ..etc -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
cseaman@sequent.UUCP (Chris "The Bartman" Seaman) (09/19/90)
joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) writes: < JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) writes: < < > I don't care what anyone says, that's one heckuva deal. Let's not < > hear any more whining, please? < < They even decompressed all those annoying archives too. Note thayt the ad < says 360 disks, but 400+ megs of software. This is a dead giveaway. < BTW...they also fooled around with the script files so that they would < work properly for the way the CD-ROM is set up. Does anyone know if the < CD-ROM is partitioned or if each disk has it's own dir? < < -Joseph Hillenburg There is no 'dead giveaway' that the contents of the Fish disks have been decompressed. The ad clearly states that the disk contains the contents of Fish disks 1-360, *plus additional PD software*, totaling over 400 megabytes. There is also no reason to believe that any scripts have been modified. -- Chris (Insert phrase here) Seaman | ___-/^\-___ qatul batlh. cseaman@sequent.com <or> | //__--\O/--__\\ qatul Huch. ...!uunet!sequent!cseaman | // \\ qatul roj. The Home of the Killer Smiley | `\ /'
cseaman@sequent.UUCP (Chris "The Bartman" Seaman) (09/20/90)
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: < >> Question: it is my understanding that these systems are sold "complete", < >> as in packaged with a SCSI interface. I don't suppose Xetec sells them < >> without an interface? < < I didn't read anything like that in the ad. It may come with a SCSI < interface but that is not the same as a SCSI controller. The controller < sits in your computer, the interface would be the part that sits on the < the drive that talks to your controller and the drive. Ummm, I don't want to pick nits, but the terminology here disagrees with the way I learned SCSI technology. The way I learned it, the 'interface' on the drive is actually the controller (it 'knows' everything about that PARTICULAR drive, and how to efficiently communicate with it), and the unit that sits on the Amiga's (or other highly sophisticated, powerful computer :-) ) bus is a Host Adapter, which communicates with the various controllers on the SCSI bus. Am I totally off base here? -- Chris (Insert phrase here) Seaman | o\ /o See cseaman@sequent.com <or> | || "Attack of the Killer Smiley"! ...!uunet!sequent!cseaman | \vvvvvv/ Coming Soon | \____/ to a newsgroup near you!
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (09/20/90)
In <42689@sequent.UUCP>, cseaman@sequent.UUCP (Chris "The Bartman" Seaman) writes: > >Ummm, I don't want to pick nits, but the terminology here disagrees >with the way I learned SCSI technology. The way I learned it, the >'interface' on the drive is actually the controller (it 'knows' >everything about that PARTICULAR drive, and how to efficiently >communicate with it), and the unit that sits on the Amiga's (or other >highly sophisticated, powerful computer :-) ) bus is a Host Adapter, >which communicates with the various controllers on the SCSI bus. > >Am I totally off base here? No, you are absolutely right. -larry -- It is not possible to both understand and appreciate Intel CPUs. -D.Wolfskill +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
cosell@bbn.com (Bernie Cosell) (09/21/90)
c150-ec@danube.Berkeley.EDU (Johnson Sieu) writes: } Why don't they sell other stuff on CD besides the Fred Fish? How about } an encyclopeadia or a Thesaurus? Because most folks are more picky about their copyrights than the Fish contributors are [or at least, than most of them are]. "An encyclopaedia" is easy enough to say, but unless the folks at Xetec are going to start hiring writers and researchers and editors, they're going to have to find someone ELSE'S encylopaedia to release, and that'll require paying those other folks for the rights to their work. That'll probably be a LOT more up-front money than Xetec is willing to fork up, and result in a product that is probably a LOT more expensive than most folk'd be willing to pay for the resulting CD. /Bernie\
filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Bela Lubkin) (09/22/90)
All this discussion misses the only important point. Does Xetec have
permission from Fred Fish to distribute his collection in this manner?
If so, they are not doing anything wrong. If not, then even if Fred
does in fact approve of it, they are in the wrong and should get
permission as soon as possible. If they were or are denied permission
then they should cease distribution immediately.
If they have Fred's permission, then I don't think the rights of any of
the authors whose material appears in the collection are being violated.
Many items prohibit certain types of distribution but give explicit
permission to Fred Fish. If Xetec's disk is an officially
approved-by-Fred distribution method then it falls under the same
exemption granted to Fred. Otherwise, Xetec is also violating the
rights of dozens of authors.
Personally, I would hope that Fred would approve, but the decision is
his. I also really hope that Xetec approached him before distributing
the disk or the ads referring to it. Not to have done so would indicate
an appalling lack of sensitivity and legal sense.
Perhaps Fred or a representative from Xetec can comment.
Bela Lubkin * * // filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us Why do I mention CI$??
@ * * // belal@sco.com ...ucbvax!ucscc!{gorn!filbo,sco!belal}
R Pentomino * \X/ Filbo @ Pyrzqxgl +1 408-476-4633, XBBS +1 408-476-4945JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) (09/24/90)
In article <222.filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us>, filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Bela Lubkin) says: > >If Xetec's disk is an officially >approved-by-Fred distribution method then it falls under the same >exemption granted to Fred. Otherwise, Xetec is also violating the >rights of dozens of authors. 1) You aren't saying anything that hasn't been said at least 6 times so far already here in comp.sys.amiga. Why does this topic keep coming up? 2) If memory serves, the copyright statements in many of the software packages on the Fish disks read close to "Permission is hereby granted for this software to be distributed as part of the Fred Fish collection." Well, as far as I'm concerned, this Xetec CD ROM is the Fred Fish collection, and the spirit of the copyrights have been preserved. 3) Overall, I don't see Xetec as intentionally trying to cause any trouble here. In addition, I don't see that what they do is even CLOSE to piracy, which is the way you seem to be treating it. Overall, the posters here on c.s.a seem to be causing more trouble than Xetec. Xetec tries to do the Amiga community a favor, and they get crap. Please go read your law books and leave Xetec and those who are thankful for their efforts alone. Kurt -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- || Kurt Tappe (215) 363-9485 || Amigas, Macs, IBM's, C-64's, NeXTs, || || 184 W. Valley Hill Rd. || Apple ]['s.... I use 'em all. || || Malvern, PA 19355-2214 || (and in that order too! ;-) || || jkt100@psuvm.psu.edu --------------------------------------|| || jkt100@psuvm.bitnet jkt100%psuvm.bitnet@psuvax1 QLink: KurtTappe || -----------------------------------------------------------------------
fnf@riscokid.UUCP (Fred Fish) (09/25/90)
In article <222.filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us> filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Bela Lubkin) writes: >All this discussion misses the only important point. Does Xetec have >permission from Fred Fish to distribute his collection in this manner? Even though it was not necessary (see below) then did ask permission. >If so, they are not doing anything wrong. If not, then even if Fred >does in fact approve of it, they are in the wrong and should get >permission as soon as possible. If they were or are denied permission >then they should cease distribution immediately. I have always explicitly disclaimed any compilation copyright on the library. This means that anyone can do whatever they wish with the library or its contents without even bothering to contact me. Any additional restrictions placed on the contents by the authors are still in effect, but that is between the distributor and the author to resolve. >If they have Fred's permission, then I don't think the rights of any of >the authors whose material appears in the collection are being violated. >Many items prohibit certain types of distribution but give explicit >permission to Fred Fish. If Xetec's disk is an officially >approved-by-Fred distribution method then it falls under the same >exemption granted to Fred. Otherwise, Xetec is also violating the >rights of dozens of authors. I don't think my "permission" is relevant. I have no authority to change any of the conditions imposed by the authors. I try to avoid including overly restrictive material, and have sometimes rejected material that included a long "shopping list" of do's and don'ts, even when I doubted that they would be enforcable. As was demonstrated by the Tetris case, what is legally enforcable and what can just cause a lot of hassle are two very different things. >Perhaps Fred or a representative from Xetec can comment. Done. :-) -Fred
BAXTER_A@wehi.dn.mu.oz (09/25/90)
In article <222.filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us>, filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Bela Lubkin) writes: > All this discussion misses the only important point. Does Xetec have > permission from Fred Fish to distribute his collection in this manner? > If so, they are not doing anything wrong. If not, then even if Fred > does in fact approve of it, they are in the wrong and should get > permission as soon as possible. If they were or are denied permission > then they should cease distribution immediately. > I think this holds for anything after disk ?57, when Fred said that anything not PD was sent directly to him with a request that it be widely distributed. Under those conditions, you could consider Xetec as providing a service (ie duplication) to Fred. To be fair, I think the CD's should really be widely distributed and not part of a package deal. I suspect it won't matter very much, because others are making compilation CD's anyway. Regards Alan