dannie@coplex.UUCP (Dannie Gregoire) (08/28/90)
I had heard a while ago that Prodigy was going to port to the Amiga, so I thought I'd give them a call to see if this was true. Well it is not. They said that they are NOT going to port to the Amiga "any time soon." Prodigy, if you are unfamiliar is a dial-up information serice that will allow you to do everything from send flowers to order from sears with a graphical interface. The person I spoke with gave me some bunk reasons about it being near impossible to port the software to the Amiga due to its difficult programming environment, and the "hellatious memory requirements that it would require for the graphics" (over the IBM and MAC). If they port their cheesy IBM-ish graphics (as seen in their Information Guide) it should be no problem at all. The person I spoke with at Prodigy knew absolutely NOTHING of the AMIGA, eventhough he seemed to think otherwise. I think that the Programming staff at Prodigy must be a group of ex-UNIVAC programmers from the 40's, or a near equivalent. ;-) PLEASE stand up for YOUR computer. Call Prodigy TODAY and complain about this lack of intelligence and information on their part. Enough inquiries might change their mind. Prodigy --- 1-800-822-6922 ext. 333 Dannie Gregoire Copper Electronics Inc. (dannie@coplex)
alberti@cs.umn.edu (Bob Alberti) (08/29/90)
dannie@coplex.UUCP (Dannie Gregoire) writes: >Prodigy, if you are unfamiliar is a dial-up information serice that will >allow you to do everything from send flowers to order from sears with >a graphical interface. It's also dumber than wings on an elephant, but that's another issue. >The person I spoke with at Prodigy knew absolutely NOTHING of the AMIGA, It could be argued that this is Commodore's responsibility... >PLEASE stand up for YOUR computer. Call Prodigy TODAY and complain about >this lack of intelligence and information on their part. Enough inquiries >might change their mind. WHY for God's sake, WHY? If I did that, they might actually PORT it to the Amiga, and then someone might actually USE it! I may as well ask them to drive over and hit me in the head with a brick. Sorry, but I've SEEN Prodigy and its victims. _______________________________________________________________________________ Bob Alberti Micro and Wkstn Networks Ctr, U of MN /// aka: Albatross UUCP: nic.MR.NET!boombox.micro.UMN.EDU!alberti /// Images at Twilight INET: alberti@boombox.micro.UMN.EDU \\\/// (612) 884-7951 Disclaimer: My employer does not mean what I say. \XX/ Ingredients: 30% header, 30% quote, 10% content, 30% cutesy signature.
don@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (Donald R Lloyd) (08/29/90)
Prodigy had a small display at a show here at the U of D last year.
I asked the rep about the possibility of an Amiga port... he said he
wasn't sure, but that more people asked him that question than any other.
I don't know that prodigy would be all that big of a deal. Almost every
time it's mentioned (except by Prodigy staff :-), words like "sluggish",
"overrated", "useless", "don't bother using it anymore" usually crop up.
Prodigy is missing out on a fairly large market by not porting their
software over. You'd think when a machine is this close to 2 million in
sales, a few companies might take notice... (On a similar note, I read
in a recent InfoWorld or PCWeek that Borland is writing a spreadsheet for
the NeXT... I have to wonder about a company which writes software for a
machine with an installed base of ~5000 while completely ignoring 2 million
Amiga users...)
--
Gibberish .sig for sale or lease.
is spoken Contact don@vax1.acs.udel.edu for more information.
here. DISCLAIMER: It's all YOUR fault.limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) (08/29/90)
[Another 1/2 serious message follows] Of course Prodigy won't support Amiga. If they listed "Terminal software available for IBM, Mac, and Amiga" people would infer that the Amiga is a legitimate computer. ...and what would happen to all of IBM's multimedia hype if people found out about the Amiga :-)
Joseph P. Hillenburg (joseph@valnet.UUCP) (08/29/90)
dannie@coplex.UUCP (Dannie Gregoire) writes: > I had heard a while ago that Prodigy was going to port to the Amiga, so > I thought I'd give them a call to see if this was true. Well it is not. > They said that they are NOT going to port to the Amiga "any time soon." > > Prodigy, if you are unfamiliar is a dial-up information serice that will > allow you to do everything from send flowers to order from sears with > a graphical interface. > > The person I spoke with gave me some bunk reasons about it being near > impossible to port the software to the Amiga due to its difficult > programming environment, and the "hellatious memory requirements that it > would require for the graphics" (over the IBM and MAC). If they port their > cheesy IBM-ish graphics (as seen in their Information Guide) it should be > no problem at all. > > The person I spoke with at Prodigy knew absolutely NOTHING of the AMIGA, > eventhough he seemed to think otherwise. I think that the Programming > staff at Prodigy must be a group of ex-UNIVAC programmers from the 40's, > or a near equivalent. ;-) > > PLEASE stand up for YOUR computer. Call Prodigy TODAY and complain about > this lack of intelligence and information on their part. Enough inquiries > might change their mind. > > Prodigy --- 1-800-822-6922 ext. 333 > > Dannie Gregoire > Copper Electronics Inc. > (dannie@coplex) Why? Who needs Prodigy? People/Link beats it easily for it's files base (for any computer) and BIX beats it for information. If we want graphics, why not use SpyPix? (On JR-Comm, not SkyTerm, which is BLAH!) SkyPix is so much better and faster. About a month ago, a Prodigy saleswoman calles my house wanting me to sign uo for it. I said I mighr get a subscription if they made an Amiga version, then I saw it ona friend's Mac...too many ads, too slow, (The one thing a TRS-80/300bps modem can beat) and not worth be bucks. Heck, BIX'es rate is extremely worth it, especially considering you get access to CATS as well... -Joseph Hillenburg (Sultan of Asm) INET: joseph@valnet.uucp |MAIL: 1709 West Gray UUCP: ...!iuvax!valnet!joseph |MAIL: Bloomington, IN 47401 AT&T: 1-812-336-2969 |MAIL: United States CompSci BBS: 3/12/24 1-812-876-4407 9:30 pm-7:30 am |Mail replies requested Those aren't bugs! Just undesirable features!
Joseph P. Hillenburg (joseph@valnet.UUCP) (08/29/90)
limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) writes: [...] > ...and what would happen to all of IBM's multimedia hype if people > found out about the Amiga :-) How many people realize that IBM *owns* part of Prodigy? -Joseph Hillenburg (Sultan of Asm) INET: joseph@valnet.uucp |MAIL: 1709 West Gray UUCP: ...!iuvax!valnet!joseph |MAIL: Bloomington, IN 47401 AT&T: 1-812-336-2969 |MAIL: United States CompSci BBS: 3/12/24 1-812-876-4407 9:30 pm-7:30 am |Mail replies requested Those aren't bugs! Just undesirable features!
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (08/29/90)
In article <c56mo1w162w@valnet> Joseph P. Hillenburg (joseph@valnet.UUCP) writes: >dannie@coplex.UUCP (Dannie Gregoire) writes: >> The person I spoke with gave me some bunk reasons about it being near >> impossible to port the software to the Amiga due to its difficult >> programming environment, and the "hellatious memory requirements that it >> would require for the graphics" (over the IBM and MAC). If they port their >> cheesy IBM-ish graphics (as seen in their Information Guide) it should be >> no problem at all. This is all a bunch of B.S. >> The person I spoke with at Prodigy knew absolutely NOTHING of the AMIGA, >> eventhough he seemed to think otherwise. I think that the Programming >> staff at Prodigy must be a group of ex-UNIVAC programmers from the 40's, >> or a near equivalent. ;-) >> PLEASE stand up for YOUR computer. Call Prodigy TODAY and complain about >> this lack of intelligence and information on their part. Enough inquiries >> might change their mind. I doubt this (see my story later). >Why? Who needs Prodigy? People/Link beats it easily for it's files base >(for any computer) and BIX beats it for information. If we want graphics, >why not use SpyPix? (On JR-Comm, not SkyTerm, which is BLAH!) SkyPix is >so much better and faster. About a month ago, a Prodigy saleswoman calles >my house wanting me to sign uo for it. I said I mighr get a subscription >if they made an Amiga version, then I saw it ona friend's Mac...too many >ads, too slow, (The one thing a TRS-80/300bps modem can beat) and not >worth be bucks. Heck, BIX'es rate is extremely worth it, especially >considering you get access to CATS as well... The point is not what is good or bad, but the fact that Prodigy already has a vary large installed base, the backing of IBM and Sears and a VERY large advertising budget. Simply put, having the Amiga support Prodigy will make it a more "mainstream" computer than it is now. And now my story. I evaluated Prodigy back in 1987. Did a little of reverse-engineering on the IBM CGA/EGA version and came to the conclusion that an Amiga version would be fairly easy to do and MUCH faster than the CGA/EGA version that are the "norm" for Prodigy. Prodigy uses very few things for its screen: fonts, line drawing and filling reagions with hatch styles. that's it. When this is done on an EGA/CGA it is abismally slow, since neither card has these features in firmware: it is all done in software. On the Amiga, all of this is done by the custom chips, and therefore can be done at a speed to blow away such IBM implementations. We went all the way to contact Prodigy Marketing Development at Prodigy headquarters back in 1988. We proposed to do the port for them back then. We also indicated that the Amiga 500 was being sold in the same outlets (Software Etc.) that sell Prodigy to the consumer market. Their response was that they "had no money left from their budget, since they were funding a Mac and an Apple II version of Prodigy". We never heard from them again. I think the Mac version did come out eventually. I don't know about the Apple II version. Subsequently we received word from a reliable source that one of the reasons NOT to do the Amiga version was that it would have been so fast that it would have blown away the versions running on IBM hardware. I have no hard proof that this is true, and so I offer it just as a rumor. Another rumor at last DevCon was that CBM itself was going to be involved in a Prodigy port, but again I have no real hard facts on this. IMHO, it would be GOOD for the Amiga to have a version of the Prodigy software running on Ami. -- Marco -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Xerox sues somebody for copying?" -- David Letterman -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
mrush@csuchico.edu (Matt "C P." Rush) (08/29/90)
In article <191@coplex.UUCP> dannie@coplex.UUCP (Dannie Gregoire) writes: > > I think that the Programming >staff at Prodigy must be a group of ex-UNIVAC programmers from the 40's, >or a near equivalent. ;-) Hey! Wait a minute!! I've seen the Prodigy software perform, and I've met several current UNIVAC programmers, and the UNIVAC programmers write much more stable software. -- Matt *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* % "Progress is an up-hill battle % mrush@csuchico.edu % % against backwards compatibility." % mrush@cscihp.UUCP % % -- me % % Coming Soon: mrush@ecst.csuchico.edu % *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* This is a SCHOOL! Do you think they even CARE about MY opinions?!
barrett@meridn.enet.dec.com (Keith Barrett) (08/29/90)
In article <191@coplex.UUCP>, dannie@coplex.UUCP (Dannie Gregoire) writes... >I had heard a while ago that Prodigy was going to port to the Amiga, so >I thought I'd give them a call to see if this was true. Well it is not. >They said that they are NOT going to port to the Amiga "any time soon." If you have a bridgeboard, Prodigy runs fine on an Amiga and will meet minimum requirements (CGA, 512k, XT or better, MSDOS V3.n or better). I was a subscriber and used it for quite a while on my AMIGA this way. Anytime I interracted with Prodigy support staff however, I always told them I had an XT clone. IMHO however, I dropped it because it was slow, limited, and not worthwhile to an Amiga owner. There are no club groups except IBM PC's, and bulletin board censorship occurs often and for silly reasons (mostly due to their desire to cater the system to the "family" rather than the computer enthuseist. Mentioning a computer system other than IBM/compatible has a chance of being deleted. There was no download/upload ability (at least at that time), no CHAT, no conferencing, and no email outside of Prodigy. If you have access to USENET, I can't think of anything you'd want from Prodigy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith G. Barrett - Software Specialist Internet: barrett@meridn.enet.dec.com Digital Equipment Corp. "DEC has it now" UUCP: decwrl!meridn.enet!barrett // "Wait'll they get a load of me" - Joker \X/ "The Amiga is really a picoVAX" "You won't get it!" - the Prisoner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
consp11@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Brett Kessler) (08/30/90)
I for one probably wouldn't use the darned thing. True, my UseNet access will probably only be around until May 1991, but I also have American PeopleLink access which is _the_ place for Amiga-related topics (aside from UseNet, which is posted there daily). On the other hand, Prodigy is another one of those things that would lend the Amiga an air of legitimacy. They'll be getting a phone call from me, you can count on that. +------///-+------------------| BRETT KESSLER |------------------+-\\\------+ | /// | consp11@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu | \\\ | | \\\/// | consp11@bingvaxa.BITNET | \\\/// | | \XX/ | (PeopleLink) B.KESSLER | \XX/ | +----------+-----------------------------------------------------+----------+
cseaman@sequent.UUCP (Chris "The Bartman" Seaman) (08/30/90)
alberti@cs.umn.edu (Bob Alberti) writes: < dannie@coplex.UUCP (Dannie Gregoire) writes: < < >Prodigy, if you are unfamiliar is a dial-up information serice that will < >allow you to do everything from send flowers to order from sears with < >a graphical interface. < < It's also dumber than wings on an elephant, but that's another issue. This is an opinion (though it is one I share), and as such is not a valid reason not to port software to the Amiga. < >PLEASE stand up for YOUR computer. Call Prodigy TODAY and complain about < >this lack of intelligence and information on their part. Enough inquiries < >might change their mind. < < WHY for God's sake, WHY? If I did that, they might actually PORT it to the < Amiga, and then someone might actually USE it! I may as well ask them to < drive over and hit me in the head with a brick. Sorry, but I've SEEN Prodigy < and its victims. No one says that you or I would be required to use, buy, or in any other way support Prodigy. However, I have known people who bought low-end IBM's for the express purpose of running Prodigy and its ilk. I would rather have these people buy Amigas, wouldn't you? More importantly, wouldn't Commodore? The way I see it, any software that sells Amigas is a plus, whether I use it or not. -- Chris (Insert phrase here) Seaman | /|__|\__/|__|\ cseaman@sequent <or> | | | Where does he get ...!uunet!sequent!cseaman | | /\/\ /\/\ | those Wonderful toys? The Home of the Killer Smiley | \| \/ |/
david@starsoft.UUCP (Dave Lowrey) (09/02/90)
>In article <14988@shlump.nac.dec.com> barrett@meridn.enet.dec.com (Keith Barrett) writes: >In article <191@coplex.UUCP>, dannie@coplex.UUCP (Dannie Gregoire) writes... > >If you have access to USENET, I can't think of anything you'd want > from Prodigy. > You hit the nail on the head!! I picked up Prodigy for my XT clone. It was $30.00, with 3 free months (which would have cost another $30.00). The ONLY thing I found usefull was the stock prices and news section. I didn't see a single thing on sale that I couldn't have purchased elseware at a better price. Even the various software companys, such as Broderbund, only advertised PC and Mac software. The bottom line is that Prodigy is aimed at the non computer literate "family" user. I droped my subscription after my 3 month "free" trial period. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- These words be mine. The company doesn't care, because I am the company! :-) Dave Lowrey | david@starsoft or {uhnix1,moray}!starsoft!david Starbound Software Group | Houston, TX | "Dare to be stupid!" -- Weird Al Yankovic
U3364521@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Lou Cavallo) (09/03/90)
G'day, DIsclaimer: I'm an Australian. I know almost nothing about Prodigy. We do have a service here, called Discovery (that I've never used), that some of my friends have rated as `of little use/too expensive' ... DL> In article <david.7202@starsoft.UUCP>, david@starsoft.UUCP DL> (Dave Lowrey) writes: KB> In article <14988@shlump.nac.dec.com> barrett@meridn.enet.dec.com KB> (Keith Barrett) writes: DG> In article <191@coplex.UUCP>, dannie@coplex.UUCP DG> (Dannie Gregoire) writes... Oops! I've lost the attribution here... +---- I think! V KB> If you have access to USENET, I can't think of anything you'd want KB> from Prodigy. DL> You hit the nail on the head!! [some description of Prodigy deleted] DL> The bottom line is that Prodigy is aimed at the non computer literate DL> "family" user. I appreciate your point that Prodigy would be low value for many computer literate readers (it'd probably bore me too). Hasn't someone pointed out that Prodigy will be of GREAT marketing value alone for those very same users? I'd really like to have the public perceive(*) of the Amiga & CBM as both a computer and company that are friendly to use/own and deal with. { Hey is there a slogan in there? :-), let's see ... ``CBM/Amiga -- friendly to use/own and deal with.'' } Could be but it needs a little work. :-) {Okay, a LOT of work.} So perhaps we can get a little debate going on what could be provided by such a service, that could be of value to the non computer literate user? yours truly, Lou Cavallo. (*) Internationally of course. Hey CBM/Australia we see the ESCO reps here on USENET. Perhaps you will be too one day? BTW: greetings to all the CBM ESCO reps out there. With both the US and ESCO CBM personnel so interested in the USENET Amiga users I think I can say that CBM must have the greatest number of staff that contribute regularly to USENET discussions of any PC system represented in the USENET comp hierarchy. Am I wrong? How many reps do you think you've seen here lately? I swear that one day we're going to see Mr Copperman or Mr Gould post to these groups ... :-)
dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Francis Heffernan) (09/04/90)
RE 'Plodigy' on the Amiga I used to sell Prodigy when I worked at Sears. (I now here there's a special circle of Hell waiting just for us...;-) As most of the other posters have mentioned, it's not bad for non-techies, but computer literate people tended to find it boring and frustrating. The catch here is that computers by and large only sell to computer literate people. If they're not computer literate when they buy the machine, they will be soon enough, or they'll stop using the machine. This, imho, would apply to Amiga owners too. I don't think it would go over so well. On the other psuedopod, it (or something like it) would be great for use with CDTV. But I'd rather see Commodore try to shmooze GEnie or CompuTakeAllYourMoney$erve into doing up a graphic front-end specifically for the CDTV. Those services have a lot more to offer than Prodigy, if properly equipped with a user interface designed for real people, and not technodroids. dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com ...uunet!tronsbox ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I don't understand why you make such a big deal out of everything...haven't you learned; if it doesn't happen to me it's not important?" -Murphy Brown
LDSHANER@MTUS5.BITNET (Leon D. Shaner) (09/05/90)
I called Prodigy the other day (they have an 800 number available from 800 info rmation) and asked if they would port to Amiga... They said, quite flatly, "NO" It didn't surprise me. I don't even have a use for the service, but it would be good for the Amiga market... If figure if enough people were to call, they might get the idea to port it... --Leon
Radagast@cup.portal.com (sullivan - segall) (09/06/90)
>I called Prodigy the other day (they have an 800 number available from 800 inf o >rmation) and asked if they would port to Amiga... They said, quite flatly, "NO " > >It didn't surprise me. I don't even have a use for the service, but it would >be good for the Amiga market... If figure if enough people were to call, they >might get the idea to port it... > >--Leon Back when Prodigy first came into existance, I called in about an Amiga product, and was informed that nothing of the sort existed. So I asked them if they could send me a list of the comm sequences they used so I could roll my own. They said there were essentially no differences between Prodigy and one of the public graphic protocols (that I can't remember the name of right now.) Unfortunately I soon heard enough reports from other users about Prodigy, that I never bothered to stumble down to archives and look it up. Anyway, you might be able to get the same information from them if you were to ask for it specifically. -kls -Sullivan_-_Segall (a.k.a. Radagast) _______________________________________________________________ /V\ "I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in ' cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." -- J. Edgar Hoover _______________________________________________________________ Mail to: ...sun!portal!cup.portal.com!radagast or radagast@cup.portal.com
Radagast@cup.portal.com (sullivan - segall) (09/06/90)
>I called Prodigy the other day (they have an 800 number available from 800 inf o >rmation) and asked if they would port to Amiga... They said, quite flatly, "NO " > >It didn't surprise me. I don't even have a use for the service, but it would >be good for the Amiga market... If figure if enough people were to call, they >might get the idea to port it... > >--Leon I hate it when I've just entered a message and finally remember some vital data that was eluding me before. Prodigy uses a basic NAPLPS implementation. I haven't looked up the data sheets, so I'm not certain how exhaustive the definition is. -kls -Sullivan_-_Segall (a.k.a. Radagast) _______________________________________________________________ /V\ "I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in ' cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstaae commerce." -- J. Edgar Hoover _______________________________________________________________ Mail to: ...sun!portal!cup.portal.com!radagast or radagast@cup.portal.com
owen@euclid.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) (09/06/90)
In article <90247.192033LDSHANER@MTUS5.BITNET>, LDSHANER@MTUS5.BITNET (Leon D. Shaner) writes... >I called Prodigy the other day (they have an 800 number available from 800 info >rmation) and asked if they would port to Amiga... They said, quite flatly, "NO" > >It didn't surprise me. I don't even have a use for the service, but it would >be good for the Amiga market... If figure if enough people were to call, they >might get the idea to port it... > >--Leon Hmmm, that's funny. When I called them the other day about it, they were quite nice, and said that the best thing for me to do would be to write a letter to their public relations department. I don't expect a Prodigy port anytime soon, and if there is, I probably won't get it unless it's about 15 times faster than the IBM or Mac versions. _____ ///______________________________________________________________________ | /// Only Amiga makes it possible! | Bootleg collectors,send mail | |\\\/// Macintosh: the illusion of productivity | (U2,REM,CuRE,Floyd,etc.) | | \XX/ OS/2: half an operating system | All normal disclaimers apply | | | |Steve | owen@euclid.enet.dec.com(Jul-Dec)| "Cool your jets man!"-Bart takes | |Owen | sowen@lynx.northeastern.edu(Jan+)| Heat Transfer and Fluid Dynamics | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pashdown@shotput.es.com@bambam.UUCP (Pete Ashdown) (09/06/90)
dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Francis Heffernan) writes: > On the other psuedopod, it (or something like it) would be great for >use with CDTV. But I'd rather see Commodore try to shmooze GEnie or >CompuTakeAllYourMoney$erve into doing up a graphic front-end specifically for >the CDTV. Those services have a lot more to offer than Prodigy, if properly >equipped with a user interface designed for real people, and not technodroids. Why bother when Commodore already has a "graphic" network that kicks Plodigy's butt? What happened to the port of Q-Link (I think that is the name) to the Amiga? I've seen it on the C64 and it looks rather nice. Last time I was at CES ('87), Commodore was talking about a port, but it never saw the light of day. >dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com ...uunet!tronsbox () () -=Adolescent Deformed Karate Lobsters!=- " ( " ) - 'Like Linguini, where's my house slippers?' / ( ) ( ) 'I thot I tol you to shaddup, Ricotta!!' () () /|\ Pete Ashdown pashdown@esunix.es.com ...utah-cs!esunix!pashdown /|\
pfaff@leadsv.UUCP (Ray Pfaff) (09/07/90)
Interesting thing about this thread is that they have in a bass akwards fashion. A friend of mine has a Mac and we tried his prodigy software on my system using Amax to see if it would work. No go. But he called prodigy and got a fix from them. Sorry that I can't recall it, but it has something to do with using the built-in Amax debugger and patching the OS. The thing I find strange about this is that they won't look into a port to AmigaDos, but they *did* spend the time figuring out a patch to the Amax in order for it to work there. Obviously, there shouldn't be any problem with the Amiga hardware which would stop the port. IMHO Prodigy isn't even worth hacking the Amax OS to get at it... Ray Pfaff * Any opinions expressed here are of my evil twin Clarence ... *
plav@cup.portal.com (Rick M Plavnicky) (09/07/90)
I've been following this discussion re: Prodigy for Amiga and I haven't heard anyone mention something which I consider quite important. During normal operation, Prodigy has the ability (at least on the IBM version) to update their software running on your machine without your knowledge. Prodigy salescritters I've spoken to acknowledge this when pressed, but they seem to take great pains to downplay it. While I agree with a previous poster who claimed that Prodigy availability would help to lend legitimacy to the Amiga, I know that *I* wouldn't have anything to do with it. Besides feeling pretty uncomfortable about turning control of my system over to some 'unknown' that explicitly limits their liabilty for damage in their contract, after using Prodigy on a friend's IBM for a number of hours I feel they offer me little, if any, real value for the price. There was a series of articles about this in Risks Digest some time ago which describe this much better than I could. I apologise for taking up so much space with this... From Risks Digest Vol. 9 Issue 69: >Date: Thursday, 15 Feb 1990 17:11:22 EST >From: m17434@mwvm.mitre.org (Wechsler, Donald B) >Subject: Now Prodigy Can Read You > >The Prodigy Services publication, PRODIGY STAR, (Volume III, No. 1) recently >showcased a "major benefit". The Prodigy system accesses remote subscribers' >disks to check the Prodigy software version used, and when necessary, download the latest programs. This process is automatic when subscribers link to the >network. > >I asked Prodigy how they protect against the possibility of altering >subscribers' non-Prodigy programs, or reading their personal data. Prodigy's >less-than-reassuring response was essentially (1) we don't look at other >programs, and (2) you can boot from a floppy disk. According to Prodigy, the >feature cannot be disabled. From Risks Digest Vol. 9 Issue 74: >Date: Fri, 09 Mar 90 09:37:19 E >From: Eric Roskos <jer@ida.org> >Subject: Re: Now Prodigy Can Read You (RISKS-9.69) > >This issue was debated at length on the PRODIGY service several months >ago; an explanation was given by Harold Goldes, one of the PRODIGY >service's more technically knowledgeable user-support people. The >"programs" updated by the PRODIGY software are not executable files >loadable by the PC's operating system; it is not even clear that it is >code executable by the PC's CPU. Rather, routines to draw the >individual graphics displays used by the PRODIGY software are cached on >the user's disk in a single file, STAGE.DAT, and this cache is updated >via normal cache-updating algorithms. The PRODIGY software is unable to >update the DOS-executable object programs automatically, and has to send >out new disks when this is necessary. The explanation given in the >_PRODIGY_Star_ newsletter was an overly-abbreviated version, limited in >technical detail by the PRODIGY service's orientation to nontechnical >people, and, no doubt, by space limitations. > >Nevertheless, due the PC's lack of security mechanisms, the possibility >of altering subscriber's programs or reading personal data does exist on >any such system. PRODIGY representatives have repeatedly stated that >the PRODIGY software will not do this, and my examination of the >operation of the software has not shown any evidence that any file other >than STAGE.DAT is updated. > >A topic that has not been so clearly answered is what some users feel to >be the PRODIGY service's overuse of its built-in censorship facilities >and its employment of "over 100" censors; they feel the PRODIGY sevice >uses this facility to control the expression of opinions on the >service's bulletin boards which may adversely affect marketing goals. From Risks Digest Vol. 9 Issue 75: >Date: 12 Mar 90 20:44:07 EST (Mon) >From: simsong@prose.CAMBRIDGE.MA.US (Simson L. Garfinkel) >Subject: PRODIGY updating programs > >I must take issue with Eric Roskos saying that PRODIGY can only update >information in the STAGE.DAT file. > >In doing my article on PRODIGY for The Christian Science Monitor, I was told b Prodigy's manager of software services that one of the really nifty tricks of >PRODIGY is that nearly the entire system running on the PC --- including the >.EXE files --- can be updated remotely. This eliminates the need to send out >floppy disks with updates. (They didn't have it working well at the beginning >and actually had to send out one update --- an extremely expensive >proposition.) > >The reason for wanting to do this is based on two things: prodigy's pricing >structure and its target market. Prodigy charges one $9.95 a month. At that >price, it just isn't possibly to economically send out floppy disks. >Especially if they want to have 1-5 million subscribers within the next 2-10 >years. > >The other thing is their target market: they want people who don't know >anything about programs or files. Automatic updates eliminate the necessity o having to have users put disks into their computers and try to figure out what >is going on. > >The Prodigy censors is a very real problem. They have recently shut down >PRODIGY groups that have ventured into "unacceptable" topics like abortion and >homosexuality. From Risks Digest Vol. 9 Issue 78: >Date: Mon, 26 Mar 90 09:50:20 >From: Eric Roskos <roskos@ida.org> >Subject: More on Prodigy's Updating of a User's Disks > >In a recent RISKS posting, I responded to Donald B. Weschler's >statement that Prodigy could update arbitrary files on the user's hard >disk by saying that it appeared that Prodigy only does cache management >of data in a single file, STAGE.DAT, via this method. > >In response to my comment I received mail from Simson Garfinkel, who >wrote the recent Christian Science Monitor article on Prodigy. He said >that Prodigy's manager of software services had told him that they could >indeed update other files, including .EXE files, thus avoiding the need >to send out update disks. > >Seeking an explanation, I asked what could be updated by this method on >Prodigy's technical service bulletin board about a week ago, and also >wrote to one of their technical support people asking for clarification. >In response to this, Prodigy, who has always previously answered my >technical questions immediately, simply ignored the question altogether. >It has now been deleted from the bulletin board by Prodigy's automatic >article-expiration software. Harold Goldes, the Prodigy representative >who I asked about the updating, likewise did not reply. > >There were several messages by users who read my posting; they all said >the same thing -- that Prodigy could update .EXE files. One person said >that he had expressed concerned about the problem, but that Prodigy had >replied "trust us, no one has the access needed to cause an unauthorized >update." None of the posters said where they obtained their information, >but all postings are screened by Prodigy's staff before appearing on the >board, and Prodigy did nothing to correct these statements. Thus, I >tend to believe them, since they support the statement made by the >Prodigy manager. > >Needless to say, this is not encouraging. I re-checked my files in the >Prodigy directory this evening, and found that no file but STAGE.DAT has >been updated since I installed the software nearly a year ago. I >examined the contents of STAGE.DAT with a disassembler, and it does not >seem to be 8086 code. It has always been my belief that STAGE.DAT >contains code interpreted by the main Prodigy program, since Prodigy >also runs on the Macintosh and since STAGE.DAT seems from Prodigy's >previous descriptions to contain definitions of graphics screens and >windows displayed while the system is operating. > >If it is indeed an interpreted environment, it would be relatively easy >for Prodigy to prevent unauthorized updates of anything but STAGE.DAT. > >If, however, the claims are correct, the Prodigy updating mechanism >would seem to be a considerable risk to Prodigy and its users, as in the >case of a disgruntled employee who arranged for an "update" to occur >after leaving the company, or of someone who discovered a way to >circumvent Prodigy's access controls. Prodigy acknowledges the >possibility of such unauthorized access by outsiders in its membership >agreement: "Unauthorized access to the PRODIGY service or to restricted >portions of the service is a breach of this agreement and a violation of >law." > >This same agreement also tries (in capital letters) to limit Prodigy's >liability: "ANY LIABILITY OF PRODIGY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY >LIABILITY FOR DAMAGES CAUSED OR ALLEGEDLY CAUSED BY ANY FAILURE OF >PERFORMANCE, ... DELETION, ... THEFT OR DESTRUCTION OR UNAUTHORIZED >ACCESS TO, ALTERATION OF, OR USE OF RECORDS ... [including] TORTIOUS >BEHAVIOR ... SHALL BE STRICTLY LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID BY OR ON >BEHALF OF THE MEMBER TO PRODIGY FOR THE PRODIGY SERVICE IN THE PRECEDING >12 MONTHS." At current service fees, this would be a maximum of $120 >liability on the part of Prodigy for damage to a user's data. From Risks Digest Vol. 9 Issue 79: >Date: Fri, 6 Apr 90 23:33:43 PDT >From: leonard@nosun.West.Sun.COM (Leonard Erickson) >Subject: Re: More on Prodigy's Updating of a User's Disks > >CompuServe has had the ability to do this for at least 9 years. Their >L-Protocol was *specificly* designed so a user could enter a short >BASIC program which would call in, download *and execute* a terminal >program. > >The B-protocol description includes this feature *explicitly* in the >protocol description, along with such features as "disable keyboard" >and disable video upddates". I *think* the older A protocol also had >these features. > >All of these CIS protocols include a whoami string that sends an >identifier string that identifies the machine type, software version, >and protocols supported in response to a remote query. This response is >invisible to the user. > >I know that some people used programs like CIS's VIDTEX for their >*only* terminal program. I once considered having a BBS check for such >people and do something to their machine... it would be rather easy. > >This is not a new risk, but it is more widespread than some think. >-- >Leonard Erickson ...!tektronix!reed!percival!bucket!leonard >CIS: [70465,203] >"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. >Let's start with typewriters." -- Solomon Short /* Rick Plavnicky ...!sun!cup.portal.com!plav -or- plav@cup.portal.com */
sk2x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sun Kun Kim) (09/08/90)
This is no BIG news. Prodigy is sponsored(probably co-owned as well) by
Sears and IBM last time I checked. I think the major thugs at IBM don't
want any other computer types on their system(do I sense a little
hostility from IBM?) and they claim to have about 250,000 subscribers
already, which they say is second only to Compuserve with about 500,000
subscribers. Prodigy plans to have local dial-in numbers for most parts
of the nation pretty soon and thinks that it will catch Compuserve. I
don't think this is a big loss for us Amiga users. Maybe Commodore can
start-up an Amiga-specific network.(?) That would be pretty cool. I
know, I'll keep dreaming.
Sun...
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Carnegie Mellon University INTERNET: sk2x+@andrew.cmu.edu
If it bends, it's funny. If it breaks, it isn't funny.-Crimes&Misdemeanors...
Cowabunga doods and like don't have a cow man! It isn't cool being that way.
Sleep? Somebody say sleep? What is sleep? Is there such a thing as sleep??
DISCLAIMER: Everything I say can and will be used against you. :-) :-) :-)
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SIGNATURE file v.1.3 (updated 5/02/90)moynihan_r@apollo.HP.COM (Robert Moynihan) (09/27/90)
In article <katyx8u00VpE40iEV=@andrew.cmu.edu> sk2x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sun Kun Kim) writes: >This is no BIG news. Prodigy is sponsored(probably co-owned as well) by >Sears and IBM last time I checked. I think the major thugs at IBM don't >want any other computer types on their system(do I sense a little >hostility from IBM?) and they claim to have about 250,000 subscribers >already, which they say is second only to Compuserve with about 500,000 >subscribers. Prodigy plans to have local dial-in numbers for most parts >of the nation pretty soon and thinks that it will catch Compuserve. I >don't think this is a big loss for us Amiga users. Maybe Commodore can >start-up an Amiga-specific network.(?) That would be pretty cool. I >know, I'll keep dreaming. > > Sun... > I missed the original posting about Prodigy, so I can't comment on it's contents. However, Prodigy *is* currently available for the Mac platform. Perhaps Big Blue is softening their PC-compatible-only stance. Recently, I received an offer from Prodigy to join their service. It was a free software/one-month trial or some such thing. I sent their marketing director a very nice letter thanking him for the offer, "but unfortunately, since Prodigy is not available for the Amiga, I cannot use your product in any case." I asked him to contact me again when Prodigy was available for my platform of choice "as I would be happy to become a user of your fine product." I encourage anyone who receives mail offers for computer-related products that are not available on Amigas to send similar letters. After all, the only way to get the attention of developers is to let them know they are missing a significant market by *not* producing a port to the Amiga. On a semi-related note, I read an ad in Amiga World for GEnie, offering unlimited access to a number of their products for $4.95 per month. Any GEnie subscribers out there that can tell us what the catch is? (if any) Bob ============================///==================================== moynihan_r@apollo.hp.com /// "Winners are losers who got up and Plink: Moynihan \\\/// gave it just one more try." Hewlett-Packard/Apollo \XX/ -Dennis DeYoung