umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Daryl Turner) (09/21/90)
Help! I am in need of a program that would make it possible for me to
read text files off of a 1581-formatted disk with my Amiga. Since I only
really need this as a one-time shot affair, I don't want to spend the money
on one of the commercial 64 emulators. Is there a freely distributable program
that might do this, on either a Fish disk or one of the FTP sites?
Thanks in advance,
Daryl Turner
<umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca>dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Francis Heffernan) (09/22/90)
RE something that reads 1581 disks from Amy drives If there is such a thing, add me to the list of people who'd like to know about it. dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com ...uunet!tronsbox!dfrancis GEnie: D.HEFFERNAN1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I don't understand why you make such a big deal out of everything...haven't you learned; if it's not happenning to me it's not important?" -Murphy Brown
JKT100@psuvm.psu.edu (JKT) (09/24/90)
ReadySoft's "64 Emulator 2" will allow you to read 1581 disks in the
Amiga drives. Many people have recently incorrectly said this product
doesn't work, but it does. The trick is you have to remove the
SETPATCH command from your 1.3 startup-sequence. Then you go transfer
to your heart's content. :-)
Kurt
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|| Kurt Tappe (215) 363-9485 || Amigas, Macs, IBM's, C-64's, NeXTs, ||
|| 184 W. Valley Hill Rd. || Apple ]['s.... I use 'em all. ||
|| Malvern, PA 19355-2214 || (and in that order too! ;-) ||
|| jkt100@psuvm.psu.edu --------------------------------------||
|| jkt100@psuvm.bitnet jkt100%psuvm.bitnet@psuvax1 QLink: KurtTappe ||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------jamesb@bushido.uucp (Jim Harvey) (09/25/90)
The TRANSFER utility program that comes with the ReadySoft C64 Emulator II will do this. It will also read a 1541 formatted disk in a 1020 drive, and will read and write to a real 1541 drive with the use of an included adaptor. -- ------- Jim Harvey | Michigan Bell Telephone Co. | "Ask not for whom the Bell Tolls and you 29777 Telegraph Rm 3352 | will only pay station to station rates." Southfield, Mich. 48034 | -------
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (09/25/90)
In article <1990Sep24.173635.2012@bushido.uucp> jamesb@bushido.uucp (Jim Harvey) writes: >The TRANSFER utility program that comes with the ReadySoft C64 Emulator II >will do this. It will also read a 1541 formatted disk in a 1020 drive, and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >will read and write to a real 1541 drive with the use of an included adaptor. Is this REALLY true? With all the track-to-track read speed changes in the 1541 format? How do they manage that? Is the data density on a 1541 so small compared to an Amiga or PC that these variations can be easily followed by the decoding software? Sounds very interesting. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (09/25/90)
In <439@cbmger.UUCP>, peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >In article <1990Sep24.173635.2012@bushido.uucp> jamesb@bushido.uucp (Jim Harvey) writes: >>The TRANSFER utility program that comes with the ReadySoft C64 Emulator II >>will do this. It will also read a 1541 formatted disk in a 1020 drive, and > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>will read and write to a real 1541 drive with the use of an included adaptor. > >Is this REALLY true? With all the track-to-track read speed changes in >the 1541 format? How do they manage that? Is the data density on a 1541 >so small compared to an Amiga or PC that these variations can be easily >followed by the decoding software? Sounds very interesting. If memory serves, there were no track to track red speed changes... only a smaller number of sectors per track as you approached the center of the disk. This happened in zones. It's been a while though. I could be mistaken. I do remember being a little baffled about this when Don Lekei and I were writing DiskDoctor (the PET one, not the Amiga one). -larry -- It is not possible to both understand and appreciate Intel CPUs. -D.Wolfskill +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) (09/27/90)
In article <439@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >Is this REALLY true? With all the track-to-track read speed changes in >the 1541 format? How do they manage that? Is the data density on a 1541 >so small compared to an Amiga or PC that these variations can be easily >followed by the decoding software? Sounds very interesting. Hardly to believe. I've seen a product called Disk-2-disk that tries to do so but you could read about half of the disk only (and with some disks less than 25%). They could prepare a 1514 disk that other parts were allocated (by writing to the BAM). Regards, -- Michael van Elst UUCP: universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (09/27/90)
In article <2041@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >In <439@cbmger.UUCP>, peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >> >>Is this REALLY true? With all the track-to-track read speed changes in >>the 1541 format? > >If memory serves, there were no track to track red speed changes... only a >smaller number of sectors per track as you approached the center of the disk. If you have different numbers of sectors on different tracks, then the relation between bits and rotation angle varies. To work this out, you have 2 choices: a) vary rotation speed with the track (I think this does the Mac), b) vary write density. And this is done in the 1541 and all the CBM floppies. Yes, this is done in zones, in total there are only 3 or 4 different values. Nice to hear of another guy who has programmed in those Old Days. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (09/27/90)
In article <2041@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >In <439@cbmger.UUCP>, peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >>With all the track-to-track read speed changes in the 1541 format? How do >>they manage that? Is the data density on a 1541 so small compared to an >>Amiga or PC that these variations can be easily followed by the decoding >>software? Sounds very interesting. >If memory serves, there were no track to track red speed changes... only a >smaller number of sectors per track as you approached the center of the disk. That's exactly right. The 1541/71 drives did write tracks at varying angular densities, to allow more sectors per track to live in the outer tracks. But it was all done electronically, by changing the actual angular read/write density, rather than by changing drive speeds. The only system I know of that achieved this trick via variable motor speeds was the Mac. And even new Macs now do it electronically. >It is not possible to both understand and appreciate Intel CPUs. > -D.Wolfskill >| // Larry Phillips | -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM
p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) (09/28/90)
In article <2041@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: [on C64 disk] >If memory serves, there were no track to track red speed changes... only a >smaller number of sectors per track as you approached the center of the disk. >This happened in zones. It's been a while though. I could be mistaken. I >do remember being a little baffled about this when Don Lekei and I were writing >DiskDoctor (the PET one, not the Amiga one). The standard 1541 format uses four different speeds. How would you get fewer sectors on the inner tracks ? You could omit some and leave a gap. You can also drop the (data transfer) speed that the gap vanishes. What you get is a more homogenous bit density (measured in flux transitions per inch) that allows you to reach the upper limits of the bit density on the outer tracks. So it's actually not the inner tracks with fewer sectors but the outer tracks with more sectors :-) Regards, -- Michael van Elst UUCP: universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
tm86214@tut.fi (T. M. Miettinen) (09/28/90)
> In <439@cbmger.UUCP>, peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: > >In article <1990Sep24.173635.2012@bushido.uucp> jamesb@bushido.uucp (Jim Harvey) writes: > >>The TRANSFER utility program that comes with the ReadySoft C64 Emulator II > >>will do this. It will also read a 1541 formatted disk in a 1020 drive, and > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >>will read and write to a real 1541 drive with the use of an included adaptor. > > > >Is this REALLY true? With all the track-to-track read speed changes in > >the 1541 format? How do they manage that? Is the data density on a 1541 > >so small compared to an Amiga or PC that these variations can be easily > >followed by the decoding software? Sounds very interesting. > If memory serves, there were no track to track red speed changes... only a > smaller number of sectors per track as you approached the center of the disk. > This happened in zones. It's been a while though. I could be mistaken. I > do remember being a little baffled about this when Don Lekei and I were writing > DiskDoctor (the PET one, not the Amiga one). In fact, speed was (is?) not varied, but the data clock rate did change, being at track 1 about 25% higher than at track 35. Thus more sectors could fit into single track (21?? vs 16). The lowest speed of the four was the same used in many CP/M machines. If 1541 used only this data rate, disk capacity would have been 35*16*256 bytes=140 KB (Yuk!!). Did you know that aside these speed tricks, you could also read tracks between those normal ones, but as the erase head was too wide, writing to them erased both neighbor tracks!! If you only changed the R/W head (70..80*21*256=430K)... However, this has nothing to do with 1581. I think this is the new? 3.5 inch drive, but I've never seen it. - Topi Miettinen tm86214@tut.fi Topi Miettinen Wake up; Time to die! horrormoviesAmigaTDe Tiaisentie 17 D -Leon's last words lectronicsRPGsleepeat SF-33100 Tampere in Blade Runner
jamesb@bushido.uucp (Jim Harvey) (09/29/90)
In article <439@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >In article <1990Sep24.173635.2012@bushido.uucp> jamesb@bushido.uucp (Jim Harvey) writes: >>The TRANSFER utility program that comes with the ReadySoft C64 Emulator II >>will do this. It will also read a 1541 formatted disk in a 1020 drive, and > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>will read and write to a real 1541 drive with the use of an included adaptor. > >Is this REALLY true? With all the track-to-track read speed changes in >the 1541 format? How do they manage that? Is the data density on a 1541 >so small compared to an Amiga or PC that these variations can be easily >followed by the decoding software? Sounds very interesting. > They slow down the disk rotation by turning the motor on and off. Bizarre, but it works. I think the other 1541 in a 1020 reader (Disk-to-Disk by central coast(?) who also make DOS-to-DOS) does the same thing. It would seem that Macintosh disks could be read using the same technique. >-- >Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... >Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk -- ------- Jim Harvey | Michigan Bell Telephone Co. | "Ask not for whom the Bell Tolls and you 29777 Telegraph Rm 3352 | will only pay station to station rates." Southfield, Mich. 48034 | -------