IO91461@MAINE.BITNET (Tom Nezwek) (10/04/90)
I have a few questions that maybe some 3000 owner
could answer...
1. Does the amber chip fill in the missing scanlines
when in non-interlace mode like the flicker fixer
does? IE: are there missing scanlines in 300 x 200 mode?
2. Is the built in SCSI controller basically a 2091?
If I bought a 3000, I would want to be able to put at least
2 Quantum 105s in one. If the built in controller is
like the 2091 then I would have problems transfering files
from one hd to the other without crashing... This is
a well known bug in the 2091 controller and has been
discussed recently..
-Thanks for the info
-Tom Nezweklphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (10/04/90)
In <730012@hpmwngf.HP.COM>, mikep@hpmwtd.HP.COM (Mike Powell) writes: > > > > > 2. Is the built in SCSI controller basically a 2091? > > If I bought a 3000, I would want to be able to put at least > > 2 Quantum 105s in one. If the built in controller is > > like the 2091 then I would have problems transfering files > > from one hd to the other without crashing... This is > > a well known bug in the 2091 controller and has been > > discussed recently.. > > Sorry, can't help you there.... maybe someone else can assist here. Must have missed this one on the first go-around... The built-in SCSI host adapter is, for all intents and purposes, a 2091 lookalike. It has no problem with two Q105s, or any other combination of up to about 5 different drives that I have tried. One of the problems that can cause you to crash while transferring data from one drive to another is when you have 'reselection' enabled. I don't know if this is a Quantum or a CBM problem, but it has caused headaches to some folks. Disable reselection on your 2091-attached drives and try again. Once you have it working fine, the same setup should work on the 3000. In fact, you will not have to do anything but move the disks over. -larry -- It is not possible to both understand and appreciate Intel CPUs. -D.Wolfskill +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
mikep@hpmwtd.HP.COM (Mike Powell) (10/04/90)
> I have a few questions that maybe some 3000 owner > could answer... > > 1. Does the amber chip fill in the missing scanlines > when in non-interlace mode like the flicker fixer > does? IE: are there missing scanlines in 300 x 200 mode? Yes... Amber fills in the 'missing' scanlines in non-interlace modes.... but only with a multisync or similar monitor (eg: the Commodore 1950 [did I get the number right??? hope so]) the ol' 1040 style RGB monitors can't take advantage of Amber. > > 2. Is the built in SCSI controller basically a 2091? > If I bought a 3000, I would want to be able to put at least > 2 Quantum 105s in one. If the built in controller is > like the 2091 then I would have problems transfering files > from one hd to the other without crashing... This is > a well known bug in the 2091 controller and has been > discussed recently.. Sorry, can't help you there.... maybe someone else can assist here. -MP-
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (10/06/90)
In article <90276.132159IO91461@MAINE.BITNET> IO91461@MAINE.BITNET (Tom Nezwek) writes: > I have a few questions that maybe some 3000 owner > could answer... How about a 3000 designer (although I had little to do with the areas in question...). > 1. Does the amber chip fill in the missing scanlines > when in non-interlace mode like the flicker fixer > does? IE: are there missing scanlines in 300 x 200 mode? Amber is clever enough to do scanline doubling for any non-interlaced mode. What this means is that a single 15kHz scan line is buffered and then sent out as two 31kHz lines. So you don't see the black line bands as with normal NTSC type display, and there's no full screen buffering as with Amber's de-interlacing modes, so you don't get any slowdown effects -- everything still acts as a 50 or 60Hz mode should. > 2. Is the built in SCSI controller basically a 2091? It is essentially a high speed, 32 bit A2091. The A3000 disk software is an update of the A2091 stuff. > If I bought a 3000, I would want to be able to put at least > 2 Quantum 105s in one. Two would fit inside; you'll need an external box for more of them. > If the built in controller is like the 2091 then I would have > problems transfering files from one hd to the other without > crashing... This is a well known bug in the 2091 controller and > has been discussed recently.. Well, this problem actually has nothing to do with the 2091 per se, it's a bug in the Western Digital SCSI chip used for both 2091 and A3000. The last revision of the SCSI chip had bugs that broke reselect capability at the high level of software, so the A2091 and A3000 SCSI drivers solved the problem using low level commands. The new release of the chip fixed the high level commands but broke the low level commands. So, in multi-drive 2091 or 3000 setups using this chip, it is best to say "no" to the "supports reselect" option in HDToolBox, and everything is cool. A new device driver will apparently fix this, going to the fixed high level commands in the new chip. > -Tom Nezwek -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM
wschmidt@phobix (Wolfram Schmidt) (10/06/90)
In article <2084@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: [...] >The built-in SCSI host adapter is, for all intents and purposes, a 2091 >lookalike. It has no problem with two Q105s, or any other combination of up to Because my PD170S is SCSI-2: Somone claimed the A3000 SCSI was SCSI-2, someone else said it was SCSI-1. What's correct? >about 5 different drives that I have tried. One of the problems that can cause >you to crash while transferring data from one drive to another is when you have >'reselection' enabled. I don't know if this is a Quantum or a CBM problem, but [...] If this is a CBM problem, will this be fixed in the final 2.0 release? If it is an Quantum problem, is it only with their small drives or also with the SCSI-2 drives? [...] >+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| // Larry Phillips | >| \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | >| COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | >+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Wolfram -- Wolfram Schmidt Regardless what some silly news software tries to tell you my email address is: wschmidt@iao.fhg.de wschmidt@IAO.FhG.de Wolfram Schmidt Teckstr. 11 W-7056 Weinstadt Germany +49-7151/62408 MET
blgardne@javelin.es.com@bambam.UUCP (Blaine Gardner) (10/08/90)
> > 2. Is the built in SCSI controller basically a 2091? > > If I bought a 3000, I would want to be able to put at least > > 2 Quantum 105s in one. If the built in controller is > > like the 2091 then I would have problems transfering files > > from one hd to the other without crashing... This is > > a well known bug in the 2091 controller and has been > > discussed recently.. I've got a Quantum Q170S and a CDC Wren III hooked to my A3000. The Quantum in in the stock drive's place, and the Wren is on the external SCSI port. Everything is working perfectly, but it took a little time to get there. You must have deselect/reselect disabled on all drives, or you'll have problems. Also if you're installing the system software onto a new drive from scratch, you MUST boot Kickstart from floppy, not the hard drive. This is mentioned in the docs, but I tried to take a shortcut, and cost myself hours of grief. There's one other problem I ran into. Booting the A3000 install disk never worked for me, I'd get a system lockup (no guru, just dead) part way through the prep/format/install procedure. If I booted the A3000 workbench disk, then ran the prep procedure, everything worked. I don't remember the details because once I got it to work, I quit messing with it. If you're not replacing the stock drive, you shouldn't have any problems with this though. -- Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland 580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108 blgardne@esunix.UUCP BIX: blaine_g {decwrl, utah-cs}!esunix!blgardne DoD #0046 The Borg killed Laura Palmer!
ridder@elvira.enet.dec.com (Hans Ridder) (10/09/90)
In article <14916@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >The last revision of the SCSI chip had bugs that broke reselect >capability at the high level of software, so the A2091 and A3000 SCSI >drivers solved the problem using low level commands. The new release of >the chip fixed the high level commands but broke the low level commands. >So, in multi-drive 2091 or 3000 setups using this chip, it is best to >say "no" to the "supports reselect" option in HDToolBox, and everything >is cool. Except a bit of SCSI bus bandwidth is wasted, right? >A new device driver will apparently fix this, going to the fixed high >level commands in the new chip. So, does this mean that the 2091 (and 3000) using the new driver will or won't support reselection? From your description, it sorta sounds like the problem was fixed by just not doing reselection in the driver.... >Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" -hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hans-Gabriel Ridder Digital Equipment Corporation ridder@elvira.enet.dec.com Customer Support Center ...decwrl!elvira.enet!ridder Colorado Springs, CO
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (10/10/90)
In article <1791@shodha.enet.dec.com> ridder@elvira.UUCP (Hans Ridder) writes: >In article <14916@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >Except a bit of SCSI bus bandwidth is wasted, right? I suppose... >>A new device driver will apparently fix this, going to the fixed high >>level commands in the new chip. >So, does this mean that the 2091 (and 3000) using the new driver will or >won't support reselection? From your description, it sorta sounds like >the problem was fixed by just not doing reselection in the driver.... The problem was circumvented by not doing reselection, programmable via mountlist or RDB parameters. That's not a fix. A new device driver with the now-working Western Digital high level SCSI commands should be a fix, not a work around, to this problem. > Hans-Gabriel Ridder Digital Equipment Corporation -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM
olson@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Toad) (10/11/90)
In article <15007@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >In article <1791@shodha.enet.dec.com> ridder@elvira.UUCP (Hans Ridder) writes: > >>So, does this mean that the 2091 (and 3000) using the new driver will or >>won't support reselection? From your description, it sorta sounds like >>the problem was fixed by just not doing reselection in the driver.... > >The problem was circumvented by not doing reselection, programmable via ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ doesn't work to well on a tape drive. :-) >mountlist or RDB parameters. That's not a fix. A new device driver with >the now-working Western Digital high level SCSI commands should be a fix, >not a work around, to this problem. > But where the HELL do we get this? I have spoken to my local dealer, and even called California to see if I could get the update, and nobody knows or has even heard about it. It is rather frustrating to be backing up a 140 meg partition with 5 files to go and then do a list and have the damn computer lock up. Not to mention the location zero bug that causes problems with several programs. >> Hans-Gabriel Ridder Digital Equipment Corporation >-- >Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" -- olson@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | "When I was fourteen, my father was so ignorant olson@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu | I could hardly stand to be around him. When I CS student, Adventurer | was twenty-one, I was amazed at how much the Paraphrased from House II | old man had learned in seven years." - M. Twain