a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) (10/04/90)
In article <178@stbimbo.UUCP> jer@stbimbo.UUCP (John Ramspott) writes: > The numeric >value is HOW MANY TIMES FASTER than an A3000UX the listed item is. A 80286 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >box is .012 times faster (in other words much slower), while an RS/6000 is >7.0 times faster. I hate to play net.grammar.police here, but the correct phrase above is "how many times AS FAST AS", not "how many times FASTER THAN". An 80286 box is .012 times (1.2%) as fast as the 3000UX - it's certainly not 1.2% faster than the Amiga. Sorry to pick nits, but it really bugs me when people do things like this. (Also, that means that the RS-6000 is only SIX times faster! :-) Aside from that, it was good news to read, and certainly gratifying to see the Amiga stack up so well against the competition using hard figures instead of the usual marketing hype. Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.UUCP My A1000 *is* a PC! It says "Personal Computer" right on the box!
jer@stbimbo.UUCP (John Ramspott) (10/04/90)
A3000UX News from the 10/2/90 AAi meeting ----------------------------------------- First, no one from Commodore made it to the meeting, so they were not able to follow through on their promise to discuss pricing and packaging of the UNIX operating system. However, in a phone conversation, Gail Purcell told me that the educational price of a complete system would be less than $4500. An engineer from Rockwell International now has a box on his desk that his company paid $4200 sans monitor. But these prices are not fixed, and no telling for what exact configuration the "less than $4500" would be for. The speaker was Dr. Mac Lindsey, Professor of Physics at Emory University, who received an evaluation unit a little over a month ago. His system had the following configuration: 9 MB RAM (1 MB chip, 8 MB fast) 200 MB hard drive Ethernet card (configurable for thin or thick) 1950 Multisync monitor 150 MB Tape Drive Some of the software that came with it: 4 shells - Bourne, C, Korn, and Job TCP/IP, Berkeley sockets, NFS, RFS, rlogin, ftp, telnet X-Windows, Open Look, standard sample X clients and OL-specific clients C came on it. He was also able to get BASIC and Fortran. In /usr/amiga/bin were some Amiga specific examples. One of the unique abilities is that it supports multiple "virtual" screens. He was logged on as himself several times, and each one ran on its own screen that he could flip between. One was even running open look. This is similar to the ability of having multiple screens under AmigaDOS. ALT-Amiga switches between screens. You can have up to 10 virtual screens. The X-Windows performance was very good. The ico example he ran runs much faster than it does on my Sub 386i here at work, and is pretty close to how it looks on SparcStation (the 12.8 MIPS box). Window dragging, resizing, opening, and closing all were smooth, but still rough to people use to the snappiness of Amiga Intuition. The current server supplied is only monochrome. The only program UNIX using color was a dotty type program in /usr/amiga/bin/samp. The fellow from Rockwell is getting the 8-bit graphics board created by Lowell in 2-3 weeks, and he will be running in color just like the A3000UX in the TI booth at Spring Comdex. No telling when there will be a color server for the 1950 class of monitors. Dr. Lindsey successfully hooked into a network of many machines like Suns, Apollos, etc, and was able to login and to ftp file transfer. He even logged into the Amiga from other machines. The only caveat here is that this beta UNIX has a 2 user license. He said that this would not be present in the released version. He has not tried NFS yet. The problem yet to be addressed is the AmigaDOS <===> UNIX connection. He could find no obvious way to do even file transfer between the two. You CANNOT run AmigaDos under UNIX. You must shutdown UNIX and re-boot to run AmigaDOS applications. However, you do have the ability to partition the drive to have both an AMigaDOS partition and a UNIX partition. He suggested that disk hackers will solve the file transfer problem if Commodore does not soon. To measure performance, Dr. Lindsey ran a test that did a Fast Fourier Transform of a Sine Wave. He selected this benchmark because it uses floating point, and he can vary how much memory is malloc'ed. He also likes it because it solves a real problem that is useful in physics. The numeric value is HOW MANY TIMES FASTER than an A3000UX the listed item is. A 80286 box is .012 times faster (in other words much slower), while an RS/6000 is 7.0 times faster. System Result ----------------------------------------- ------ 80286 8 MHZ, no ffp .012 Amiga 2000, AMigaDos, Manx C .019 80286/80287 12 MHZ .14 Mac II, 16 MHZ .48 AMiga 3000, Manx C .72 Zenith 80386/80387, 33 MHZ .76 Mac IIfx, MPWC, 40MHZ '030 .9 AMIGA 3000UX, 68030, 25MHZ 1.0 (by definition) Next Cube 1.2 Mac IIfx, AUX 1.? (couldn't read it) Sun 4/280 1.9 Sun IPC (15.8 MIPS box) 3.6 IBM RS/6000 model 320 7.0 (boooh!) Dr. Lindsey concluded that it felt like real UNIX, worked well on the network, and the UNIX system itself has never gone down (although some programs have, naturally). As a long time Amiga user, he may be a little biased, but this sounds very hopeful. Gail Purcell told me by phone that Commodore will very definitely be selling into the educational program, so they have by NO means dropped the product. They are just unsure at this point about general distribution to dealers who don't even understand what UNIX is. Hope this is useful information. --John E. Ramspott
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (10/05/90)
In article <178@stbimbo.UUCP> jer@stbimbo (John Ramspott) writes: >A3000UX News from the 10/2/90 AAi meeting >Gail Purcell told me by phone that Commodore will very definitely be selling >into the educational program, so they have by NO means dropped the product. >They are just unsure at this point about general distribution to dealers who >don't even understand what UNIX is. Perhaps the folks on comp.sys.amiga, who presumably for the most part _do_ understand what UNIX is, need to run an "adopt a dealer" plan, taking a job evenings a few days a week until the dealers get up to speed, so that we can get this program going. >Hope this is useful information. Very much, thanks for taking the time to type it in. Scary how much faster the 68030 box is than this 2000 unit. Yum! Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>
fnf@riscokid.UUCP (Fred Fish) (10/06/90)
In article <178@stbimbo.UUCP> jer@stbimbo (John Ramspott) writes: >The problem yet to be addressed is the AmigaDOS <===> UNIX connection. He >could find no obvious way to do even file transfer between the two. You BRU works just fine to transfer files between AmigaDOS and Amiga UNIX. I do it all the time on both tape and floppy disk. Ultimately though, it would be nice if both systems knew about each others disk formats and allowed partitions to be mounted under either OS. -Fred
jer@stbimbo.UUCP (John Ramspott) (10/10/90)
In article <1990Oct5.062441.29210@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >In article <178@stbimbo.UUCP> jer@stbimbo (John Ramspott) writes: >>A3000UX News from the 10/2/90 AAi meeting > >>Gail Purcell told me by phone that Commodore will very definitely be selling >>into the educational program, so they have by NO means dropped the product. >>They are just unsure at this point about general distribution to dealers who >>don't even understand what UNIX is. > >Perhaps the folks on comp.sys.amiga, who presumably for the most part _do_ >understand what UNIX is, need to run an "adopt a dealer" plan, taking a >job evenings a few days a week until the dealers get up to speed, so that >we can get this program going. As a matter of fact, I sent a letter to Ms. Purcell last week suggesting just that. I want to make Atlanta a test site for selling the A3000UX on a commercial/personal basis. I sent her information on myself and three associates who develop for UNIX professionally, and are very strong Amiga enthusiasts. I have been using my Amiga since October 1985, and have been a UNIX developer for a living for three of those five, spending my last year doing X-Windows development. I am starting a freelance consulting firm, and want to use the A3000UX in that work. I do work part-time now for a local dealer named AMPEX. They do a wonderful job of supporting the AMiga. I have a music setup there, and also demo graphics/animation/video, and other miscellaneous things in my spare time. I am now on his Sales/Support staff, and could support the UNIX box quite well. We already have companies sending in equipment lists for price quotes which include the A3000UX. It is very disappointing when we have none to give. Right now there are not many machines that System V R 4 can be had on, so NOW is the A3000UX marketing window. Ms. Purcell has some meeting Friday that she will bring up my proposal in. If any one else wants to get involved, please let Commodore know. They have yet to figure out that there is a market for this box, despite all the clamoring on the net for it. I really don't know what they are thinking about some times. They have a product, tons of people want it, and they can't decide if they want to sell it or not. Please, just SELL IT !!!!! And don't tell me we can't support it. Rubbish! When was the last time you walked in to an Apple dealer with in-house UNIX gurus? All they can do is sell it, forget having them install it. Same with people selling UNIX for 386 boxes. Support is hard and expensive to get, but alot of people buy UNIX for MACs and PCs just the same. When people like me will back the A3000UX, I really can't see what is holding up the show. >Kent, the man from xanth. ><xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> --john
diamond@cbmvax.commodore.com (Howard Diamond - Ed Marketing) (10/12/90)
In article <186@stbimbo.UUCP> jer@stbimbo (John Ramspott) writes: >In article <1990Oct5.062441.29210@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >>In article <178@stbimbo.UUCP> jer@stbimbo (John Ramspott) writes: >>>A3000UX News from the 10/2/90 AAi meeting >> >>>Gail Purcell told me by phone that Commodore will very definitely be selling >>>into the educational program, so they have by NO means dropped the product. >>>They are just unsure at this point about general distribution to dealers who >>>don't even understand what UNIX is. >> >>Perhaps the folks on comp.sys.amiga, who presumably for the most part _do_ >>understand what UNIX is, need to run an "adopt a dealer" plan, taking a >>job evenings a few days a week until the dealers get up to speed, so that >>we can get this program going. > >As a matter of fact, I sent a letter to Ms. Purcell last week suggesting >just that. I want to make Atlanta a test site for selling the A3000UX on >a commercial/personal basis. I sent her information on myself and three >associates who develop for UNIX professionally, and are very strong Amiga >enthusiasts. I have been using my Amiga since October 1985, and have been >a UNIX developer for a living for three of those five, spending my last year >doing X-Windows development. I am starting a freelance consulting firm, >and want to use the A3000UX in that work. I do work part-time now for >a local dealer named AMPEX. They do a wonderful job of supporting the AMiga. > >I have a music setup there, and also demo graphics/animation/video, and other >miscellaneous things in my spare time. I am now on his Sales/Support staff, >and could support the UNIX box quite well. We already have companies sending >in equipment lists for price quotes which include the A3000UX. It is very >disappointing when we have none to give. Right now there are not many machines >that System V R 4 can be had on, so NOW is the A3000UX marketing window. > >Ms. Purcell has some meeting Friday that she will bring up my proposal in. >If any one else wants to get involved, please let Commodore know. They have >yet to figure out that there is a market for this box, despite all the >clamoring on the net for it. I really don't know what they are thinking about >some times. They have a product, tons of people want it, and they can't >decide if they want to sell it or not. Please, just SELL IT !!!!! > After 17 months with CBM, I have learned that network clamoring DOESN'T necessarily equate to sales... >And don't tell me we can't support it. Rubbish! When was the last time you >walked in to an Apple dealer with in-house UNIX gurus? All they can do is >sell it, forget having them install it. Same with people selling UNIX for >386 boxes. Support is hard and expensive to get, but alot of people buy >UNIX for MACs and PCs just the same. When people like me will back the >A3000UX, I really can't see what is holding up the show. > That's true >>Kent, the man from xanth. >><xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> > >--john Hmmm... Tempting but??? I'll restrain myself, at least somewhat. Since about four weeks ago, I assumed responsibility for the US company's UNIX program. We will roll out a product or products, when we are convinced that we are able to do so in a professional manner. That means the product is stable and deliverable, and that the appropriate infrastructure is in place to handle all aspects of this new endeavor. (Gee, maybe we have to wait until Vr4 is out of BETA!!) -- Howard S. Diamond Director of Education, Commodore Business Machines 1200 Wilson Drive West Chester, Pa, 19380 diamond@cbmvax.commodore.com 215-431-9142 MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND!! AMIGA!