WHE46@ccvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (10/04/90)
I have a couple of questions about the A3000UX Amiga UNIX system from
Commodore.
First, of all, how has Commodore solved the problem of the need for
their UNIX system to be compatible with the IBM 1.44MB floppy disk
format? This format has become a standard for UNIX workstation systems,
and Dave H. himself has mentioned the need for any Commodore UNIX
systems to be able to read and write this format.
Second, this might seem like a silly question, but what kind of
mouse is to be included with the A3000UX? The use of three-button mice
has become an unofficial standard for X-Windows systems, and any
Commodore UNIX systems should also include a three-button mouse.
Actually, I was hoping that AmigaOS2.0 would include support for
three-button mice, and that Commodore would start including three-
button mice with all Amiga systems, including the UNIX systems, but
I guess this was not to be.
-MB-joe@cbmvax.commodore.com (Joe O'Hara - Product Assurance) (10/05/90)
In article <32336@nigel.ee.udel.edu> WHE46@ccvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > > I have a couple of questions about the A3000UX Amiga UNIX system from >Commodore. <question about 1.44MB floppy support> > Second, this might seem like a silly question, but what kind of >mouse is to be included with the A3000UX? The use of three-button mice >has become an unofficial standard for X-Windows systems, and any >Commodore UNIX systems should also include a three-button mouse. > > Actually, I was hoping that AmigaOS2.0 would include support for >three-button mice, and that Commodore would start including three- >button mice with all Amiga systems, including the UNIX systems, but >I guess this was not to be. Why ask a question if you already presume a negative? In fact, 2.0 does include support for three-button mice, although system-related use of mice is still limited to two buttons for backwards compatibility. The A3000UX units shipped to Virginia Tech included three-button mice. -- ========================================================================== Joe O'Hara || Disclaimer: I didn't say that! Commodore Electronics Ltd || Product Assurance || "I never lie when I have sand in my shoes." Systems Evaluation Group || - Geordi LeForge, Star Trek TNG ==========================================================================
martin@cbmvax.commodore.com (Martin Hunt) (10/05/90)
In article <32336@nigel.ee.udel.edu> WHE46@ccvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > > > Actually, I was hoping that AmigaOS2.0 would include support for >three-button mice, and that Commodore would start including three- >button mice with all Amiga systems, including the UNIX systems, but >I guess this was not to be. > > > -MB- Actually, 2.0 does support 3-button mice. The question is what do you want a third button for? Making a third button standard on the Amiga would require Commodore to completely rethink the user-interface. What would that third button do? The only thing it can do now is sit there and wait for you to run X windows. Most people don't want X windows and would only be confused by extra buttons. More is not always better.
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) (10/05/90)
>In article <32336@nigel.ee.udel.edu> WHE46@ccvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: >> >> Actually, I was hoping that AmigaOS2.0 would include support for >>three-button mice, and that Commodore would start including three- >>button mice with all Amiga systems, including the UNIX systems, but >>I guess this was not to be. >> The Mac comes with a 1-button-mouse, and people don't seem to mind. I cannot think of an application for 3 buttons - limited imagination, right, but do you have some suggestions what we might do with the third button? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Piet Hein) csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de ----------------------------------------------------------------------
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (10/05/90)
In article <32336@nigel.ee.udel.edu> WHE46@ccvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > First, of all, how has Commodore solved the problem of the need for >their UNIX system to be compatible with the IBM 1.44MB floppy disk >format? This format has become a standard for UNIX workstation systems, >and Dave H. himself has mentioned the need for any Commodore UNIX >systems to be able to read and write this format. I did also mention that there are three standard UNIX interchange formats. The A3000UX 150Meg streamer tape format is the standard format. So the system does support standard UNIX interchange, even if not on the floppy. Of course, as I described here earlier, there are several ways one could go about adding a 1.44 Meg drive to any Amiga without redesigning Paula. I have my favorite method, though I really don't know if Commodore has blessed any particular way for use in an A3000UX. > Actually, I was hoping that AmigaOS2.0 would include support for >three-button mice, and that Commodore would start including three- >button mice with all Amiga systems, including the UNIX systems, but >I guess this was not to be. AmigaOS 2.0 does support 3 button mice. It certainly can't _require_ a 3 button mouse, or it would hose everyone with an older system, even if the A3000 had shipped with a 3 button mouse. > -MB- -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM
mrush@csuchico.edu (Matt "C P." Rush) (10/06/90)
In article <3155@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) writes: >The Mac comes with a 1-button-mouse, and people don't seem to mind. I mind! :-) >I cannot think of an application for 3 buttons - limited imagination, >right, but do you have some suggestions what we might do with the >third button? The best application I've heard for the third button is as an analogue to the SHIFT-LeftButton. IE: Click Item1 with Middle(or Left)-Button, click Item2 with Middle- Button, click Item3 with Middle-Button...., click and HOLD ItemX with Middle- Button and DRAG the whole mess around. Thus you eliminate the need of mucking about with the darned Shift-Key. >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. >D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Piet Hein) >csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de >---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Matt *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* % "I programmed three days % Beam me up, Scotty. % % And heard no human voices. % There's no Artificial % % But the hard disk sang." % Intelligence down here. % % -- Yoshiko % % E-mail: mrush@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu % *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* This is a SCHOOL! Do you think they even CARE about MY opinions?!
joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) (10/07/90)
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) writes: > >In article <32336@nigel.ee.udel.edu> WHE46@ccvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) > >> > >> Actually, I was hoping that AmigaOS2.0 would include support for > >>three-button mice, and that Commodore would start including three- > >>button mice with all Amiga systems, including the UNIX systems, but > >>I guess this was not to be. > >> > The Mac comes with a 1-button-mouse, and people don't seem to mind. > I cannot think of an application for 3 buttons - limited imagination, > right, but do you have some suggestions what we might do with the > third button? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. > D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Piet Hein) > csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This has been sugested many times: Use it as a shit key for multi-icon select. -Joseph Hillenburg UUCP: ...iuvax!valnet!joseph ARPA: valnet!joseph@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu INET: joseph@valnet.UUCP
joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) (10/07/90)
Oooops. That should be "shift" key. -Joseph Hillenburg UUCP: ...iuvax!valnet!joseph ARPA: valnet!joseph@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu INET: joseph@valnet.UUCP
p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) (10/07/90)
In article <32336@nigel.ee.udel.edu> WHE46@ccvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: >This format has become a standard for UNIX workstation systems, >and Dave H. himself has mentioned the need for any Commodore UNIX >systems to be able to read and write this format. I don't know if Dave Haynie has said this but you can easily use a SCSI disk drive for this. > Second, this might seem like a silly question, but what kind of >mouse is to be included with the A3000UX? The use of three-button mice >has become an unofficial standard for X-Windows systems, and any >Commodore UNIX systems should also include a three-button mouse. The last time, I've used a HP workstation it has used a two button mouse and you pressed both buttons at once to get the button3 qualifiers. > Actually, I was hoping that AmigaOS2.0 would include support for >three-button mice. Three button mice were supported by the drivers but not intuition, it didn't use them and a bug prevents applications from using it through intuition. This should be solved in 2.0. -- Michael van Elst UUCP: universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (10/07/90)
In <q5Rmq5w163w@valnet>, joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) writes: > >This has been sugested many times: Use it as a shit key for multi-icon >select. I already have a shit key. On my machine it's labelled 'Caps Lock'. :-) -larry -- It is not possible to both understand and appreciate Intel CPUs. -D.Wolfskill +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (10/07/90)
In article <3155@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) writes: > The Mac comes with a 1-button-mouse, and people don't seem to mind. > I cannot think of an application for 3 buttons - limited imagination, > right, but do you have some suggestions what we might do with the > third button? How about getting rid of the double-click kludge that Apple invented to make up for the single-button mouse? That way you would have 3 buttons: SELECT (left), PERFORM (middle), and MENU (right). No user-interface hacking needed at all, and you could dump half the items in Prefs/Input. Or you could make the middle button do extend-select (shift-left in the current setup). Personally I'd rather dump double-click, myself. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
torrie@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Evan James Torrie) (10/08/90)
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes: >> The Mac comes with a 1-button-mouse, and people don't seem to mind. >How about getting rid of the double-click kludge that Apple invented to make >up for the single-button mouse? That way you would have 3 buttons: SELECT >(left), PERFORM (middle), and MENU (right). No user-interface hacking needed >at all, and you could dump half the items in Prefs/Input. Actually, I find double click is a lot faster and easier than having to click two alternate buttons with different fingers. Maybe I'm just a bit uncoordinated but I suggest you try it yourself. The advantage I see with the double click is that you don't have to worry about which button you clicked first (which is not the case if you're trying to click two buttons alternately with different fingers). Then again, it would probably make programming a bit easier (not having to check for double clicks everywhere), but are we supposed to be making the programmer's life, or the user's life easier? >-- >Peter da Silva. `-_-' ><peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>. Evan Torrie. torrie@cs.stanford.edu
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (10/08/90)
In article <1990Oct7.184813.6221@Neon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Evan James Torrie) writes: > Actually, I find double click is a lot faster and easier than having to click > two alternate buttons with different fingers. Who said anything about hitting two alternate buttons? The middle button activates whatever's under the mouse. You don't have to select it first. I can see Prefs/Customise: [x] Middle Button is ACTIVATE [ ] Middle Button is EXTEND-SELECT [ ] Middle Button is REPEAT-MENU [x] Pull-down menus [ ] Pop-up menus In fact it'd be great to customise *all* the mouse buttons. Left Mid Right Action [x] [ ] [ ] SELECT [ ] [ ] [x] PULL-DOWN MENU [ ] [ ] [ ] POP-UP MENU [ ] [x] [ ] ACTIVATE [ ] [ ] [ ] EXTEND SELECT [ ] [ ] [ ] REPEAT MENU Maybe a CX package could do this? It'd help for lefties. > Then again, it would probably make programming a bit easier (not having to > check for double clicks everywhere), but are we supposed to be making the > programmer's life, or the user's life easier? User's. I *hate* double-clicking. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
jmarvin@oracle.oracle.com (John W. Marvin) (10/10/90)
In article <3155@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) writes: >>> >The Mac comes with a 1-button-mouse, and people don't seem to mind. >I cannot think of an application for 3 buttons - limited imagination, >right, but do you have some suggestions what we might do with the >third button? > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. >D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Piet Hein) >csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de >---------------------------------------------------------------------- X Windows applications. Framemaker for one uses all three buttons, in a silly way IMHO, but its the #1 X seller. Sun alwasys had a 3 button mouse (even before OpenWindows! gasp!). Left to select, Right to choose Menu Items (gee, did the Amiga guys ever use a Sun?) and middle to modify the selection. To select a block of text, click left button at the start, click middle button at the end of the block. Other X applications that use 3 buttons: Xfig, Island Draw, mwm, olwm, swm, to name a few. You go with X to get the software that already exists, not to change the standard. By the way, mwm, the Motif Window Manager, supports five button mice... ******************************************************************* * Nhoj Nivram * * email: jmarvin@oracle.com * * "Reality is a Harsh Mistress..." * *******************************************************************
filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Bela Lubkin) (10/10/90)
In <6745@sugar.hackercorp.com> Peter da Silva wrote: >I can see Prefs/Customise: [...] >In fact it'd be great to customise *all* the mouse buttons. > > Left Mid Right Action > [x] [ ] [ ] SELECT > [ ] [ ] [x] PULL-DOWN MENU > [ ] [ ] [ ] POP-UP MENU > [ ] [x] [ ] ACTIVATE > [ ] [ ] [ ] EXTEND SELECT > [ ] [ ] [ ] REPEAT MENU > >Maybe a CX package could do this? It'd help for lefties. Left Mid Right D-Left D-Mid D-Right Action ---- --- ----- ------ ----- ------- -------------- [X] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] SELECT [ ] [ ] [X] [ ] [ ] [ ] PULL-DOWN MENU [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] POP-UP MENU [ ] [X] [ ] [X] [ ] [ ] ACTIVATE [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] EXTEND SELECT [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [X] REPEAT MENU The fact that *you* hate double-clicking is no reason to take it away from people who don't... Bela Lubkin * * // filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us Why do I mention CI$?? @ * * // belal@sco.com ...ucbvax!ucscc!{gorn!filbo,sco!belal} R Pentomino * \X/ Filbo @ Pyrzqxgl +1 408-476-4633, XBBS +1 408-476-4945
mrush@csuchico.edu (Matt "C P." Rush) (10/10/90)
In article <228.filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us> filbo@gorn.santa-cruz.ca.us (Bela Lubkin) writes: > > Left Mid Right D-Left D-Mid D-Right Action > ---- --- ----- ------ ----- ------- -------------- > [X] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] SELECT > [ ] [ ] [X] [ ] [ ] [ ] PULL-DOWN MENU > [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] POP-UP MENU > [ ] [X] [ ] [X] [ ] [ ] ACTIVATE > [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] EXTEND SELECT > [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [X] REPEAT MENU > >The fact that *you* hate double-clicking is no reason to take it away >from people who don't... Just because no body programs them, we can't forget that the OS is already watching for double-clicks on the 'Menu Button' for those special DMBRequesters, so I think that should also be taken into account here... [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [X] [ ] DOUBLE MENU REQUEST So whose the poor documentation person whose going to have to try and EXPLAIN all these option to the new user? I thought the A3000 manual was already impressively LARGE :-) -- Matt *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* % "I programmed three days % Beam me up, Scotty. % % And heard no human voices. % There's no Artificial % % But the hard disk sang." % Intelligence down here. % % -- Yoshiko % % E-mail: mrush@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu % *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* This is a SCHOOL! Do you think they even CARE about MY opinions?!
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) (10/10/90)
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes: >Who said anything about hitting two alternate buttons? The middle button >activates whatever's under the mouse. You don't have to select it first. >I can see Prefs/Customise: Well, I wouldn't like that idea. It is contrary to something what you might call visual grammar: First pick the object of an operation, then designate the operation. This is the philosophy behind all point- and-shoot ops so far. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, West Germany (Piet Hein) csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de ----------------------------------------------------------------------
zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) (10/11/90)
In article <32336@nigel.ee.udel.edu> WHE46@ccvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > Actually, I was hoping that AmigaOS2.0 would include support for >three-button mice, and that Commodore would start including three- >button mice with all Amiga systems, including the UNIX systems, but >I guess this was not to be. In a back-handed way, it does. 1.3 intuition took middle mouse events and threw them away. 2.0 does not do this. However, Workbench still does not use the middle button. Some of the third-party mice do actually have three buttons, but good luck finding software that uses them.... Dan Zerkle zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (916) 754-0240 Amiga... Because life is too short for boring computers.
zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) (10/11/90)
In article <3155@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) writes: >The Mac comes with a 1-button-mouse, and people don't seem to mind. >I cannot think of an application for 3 buttons - limited imagination, >right, but do you have some suggestions what we might do with the >third button? Button 1: twiddle gadgets on screen 2: menu selections for system user interface 3: selections for active application or ... 1. start highlight 2. end highlight (I've seen this on a Sun). 3. menus Along these lines, button 1 could select some icon, and 2 could say where it should go. This operation could easily replace the more usual click, drag, unclick operation, and would be compatible with it, thus leaving existing 2-button mice operational. Dan Zerkle zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (916) 754-0240 Amiga... Because life is too short for boring computers.
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (10/15/90)
In article <3159@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod ) writes: > Well, I wouldn't like that idea. It is contrary to something what you > might call visual grammar: First pick the object of an operation, then > designate the operation. This is the philosophy behind all point- > and-shoot ops so far. I wouldn't go so far as that. After all, both Mac menus and most systems with pop-up sensitive menus violate that philosophy. Anyway, if you make the middle button EXTEND_SELECT you won't have to worry about that detail. Let the *user* decide how the system is to behave (and to hell with X). -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.