helmut@marco.UUCP (Helmut Raiger) (08/10/90)
Hi, does anybody know wether the Amiga 500 runs with the 68000 replaced by an 68070 (I know, that the 68070 does not have an synchronous bus interface - E, VPA and VMA missing). Can the Amiga firmware support this chip? The short exception format is like the one of the 68010, but the long one is different. thanks in advance helmut (helmut@marco.de)
ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) (08/11/90)
helmut@marco.UUCP (Helmut Raiger) writes: >Hi, >does anybody know wether the Amiga 500 runs with the 68000 replaced by >an 68070 (I know, that the 68070 does not have an synchronous bus interface - ^^^^^ ????? 680*7*0?? I think Motorola would be QUITE surprised that you're trying to plan so far in advance! The 68040 is barely shipping... (For flamers, if there is indeed a 68070 that's something else, which I _sincerely_ doubt given the numbering scheme and the phrase of the question, then sorry.) In terms of other 680x0 series chips, other that the 68010 I don't think it's possible to simply (or even complexly) replace the 68000 with one; there's enough soft and hardware differences to make this impossible; hence, many competing boards for the 2000 to upgrade to 68020/68030... -- //..is|While 1 DO|Erin,Erin,where are|Art of Noise space| -- Ceej (= \X/there| Fork; |you? /-----------.-^------------------|ceej@pawl.rpi.edu AMIGAany|----------^-----|Cebhq gb or|Reclaimer:Hey!That's| gmry@mts.rpi.edu (=other?|HOW DO YOU FEEL.|Yvoreny! (=|mine! Bring it back!|aka Chris Hillery
phoenix@ms.uky.edu (R'ykandar Korra'ti) (08/12/90)
In article <K=#%MJ$@rpi.edu> ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) writes: >In terms of other 680x0 series chips, other that the 68010 I don't think it's >possible to simply (or even complexly) replace the 68000 with one; there's >enough soft and hardware differences to make this impossible Ah, no. I'm sitting typing on a 68010-eqipped Amiga 500. The 68010 is pin compatible with the 68000; it's a direct swap. As for incompatiblity; yes, only as far as the 68020 is also incompatible. Programmes that will run on a 68020 will run on a 68010. - R'ykandar. -- | R'ykandar Korra'ti | Editor: LOW ORBIT Science and Fiction | PLink: Skywise | | Elfinkind, Unite! | phoenix@ms.uky.edu | phoenix%ms.uky.edu@ukcc.bitnet | | "Hi! We're evangelical Hari-Krishna pedophiles for LaRouche! Would you like | | to see some of our fine Amway products?" - TRHMS | CIS 72406,370/LOW ORBIT |
jax@well.sf.ca.us (Jack J. Woehr) (08/12/90)
helmut@marco.UUCP (Helmut Raiger) writes: >Hi, >does anybody know wether the Amiga 500 runs with the 68000 replaced by >an 68070 (I know, that the 68070 does not have an synchronous bus interface - >E, VPA and VMA missing). Can the Amiga firmware support this chip? The short >exception format is like the one of the 68010, but the long one is different. Helmut ... It *might* be possible to develop a drop-in board for the 68070, (though why one would do it, i don't know). The 68070 from Philps/Signetics is *not* the 68040 + 30. It is a 68010 mask with added functionality (DMA, I^2C bus, MMU) for use as an embedded controller. While it offers a higher clock speed than the 68010, its cycle-efficiency is lower by apporimately one cycle per operation due to the MMU. My experience with this chip was in designing a single board computer for embedded control (never commerically produced). <jax@well.{UUCP,sf.ca.us} >< Member, > /// ///\\\ \\\ /// <well!jax@lll-winken.arpa >< X3J14 TC > /// /// \\\ \\\/// <JAX on GEnie >< for ANS > \\\ /// ///====\\\ ///\\\ <SYSOP RCFB (303) 278-0364>< Forth > \\\/// /// \\\ /// \\\
ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) (08/12/90)
phoenix@ms.uky.edu (R'ykandar Korra'ti) writes: >In article <K=#%MJ$@rpi.edu> ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) writes: >>In terms of other 680x0 series chips, other that the 68010 I don't think it's >>possible to simply (or even complexly) replace the 68000 with one; there's >>enough soft and hardware differences to make this impossible > Ah, no. I'm sitting typing on a 68010-eqipped Amiga 500. The 68010 >is pin compatible with the 68000; it's a direct swap. As for incompatiblity; >yes, only as far as the 68020 is also incompatible. Programmes that will >run on a 68020 will run on a 68010. That's what I said; or, rather, I said the 68010 can be used to replace the 68000. As to incompatibility, well, you probably know better than I; I do know that some software just won't run with the 68010 that will with the 68000, and from all I hear the list of incompatibilities gets larger the "higher" you go, with a pretty big jump to the 68020. > - R'ykandar.
pl@etana.tut.fi (Lehtinen Pertti) (08/14/90)
From article <453@krabat.marco.UUCP>, by helmut@marco.UUCP (Helmut Raiger): > Hi, > does anybody know wether the Amiga 500 runs with the 68000 replaced by > an 68070 (I know, that the 68070 does not have an synchronous bus interface - > E, VPA and VMA missing). Can the Amiga firmware support this chip? The short > exception format is like the one of the 68010, but the long one is different. > thanks in advance > helmut (helmut@marco.de) > SCC68070 (<- Philips ID) is almost same as 68000 on software (no MOVE from CCR, move from SR wont trap). From 68010 comes virtual memory support (bus faults handled ok). This drops it nastily between those two (trap test says 68000, but stack frame differs). Worse problem is on hardware side. Amiga uses all interrupt levels as 680X0 allows, but on 68070 all levels aren't available (one misses due different decoding), and this causes quite a lot problems, as we should redirect this somehow to correct vector, I think NMI could be used for this, but it is hard to say without trying. I afraid, that it won't work. -- pl@tut.fi ! All opinions expressed above are Pertti Lehtinen ! purely offending and in subject Tampere University of Technology ! to change without any further Software Systems Laboratory ! notice
rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) (08/14/90)
In article <K=#%MJ$@rpi.edu> ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) writes: >helmut@marco.UUCP (Helmut Raiger) writes: > >>Hi, >>does anybody know wether the Amiga 500 runs with the 68000 replaced by >>an 68070 (I know, that the 68070 does not have an synchronous bus interface - > ^^^^^ > ????? > >680*7*0?? I think Motorola would be QUITE surprised that you're trying to >plan so far in advance! The 68040 is barely shipping... > >(For flamers, if there is indeed a 68070 that's something else, which I >_sincerely_ doubt given the numbering scheme and the phrase of the question, >then sorry.) Signetics makes a 68000-based part named the 68070. I believe it is targetted at embedded-controller applications. It has a number of nifty features that seem designed to minimize the number of "glue" chips wrapped around the processor in a typical controller application (e.g.: if I recall correctly, there are a pair of UARTs on the chip). I agree that it's an unfortunate name, though Motorola has at least two future generations of the 680x0 family before the name becomes an issue. And I rather doubt there will ever be a 68060 (an '050 is likely though). The issue isn't so much technical as marketeer-ical. If it ain't pronounced "RISC", the market don't wanna know about it no more... (Anyone from Motorola who knows better is welcome to correct my guesses. ;-) -- >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | (Steve) rehrauer@apollo.hp.com "Spontaneous human combustion - what luck!"| Apollo Computer (Hewlett-Packard)
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (08/21/90)
In article <K=#%MJ$@rpi.edu> ceej@pawl.rpi.edu (Chris J Hillery) writes: >helmut@marco.UUCP (Helmut Raiger) writes: >>Hi, >>does anybody know wether the Amiga 500 runs with the 68000 replaced by >>an 68070 (I know, that the 68070 does not have an synchronous bus interface - > ^^^^^ > ????? > >680*7*0?? I think Motorola would be QUITE surprised that you're trying to >plan so far in advance! The 68040 is barely shipping... Yes, there IS a 68070. But it's not made by Motorola but by Valvo (now Philips components or such), a German company which got the license from Motorola. The 68070 is a normal 68000 plus some peripheral chips already integrated into the package, resembling a bit the 80186/8086 case. For that reason I think it CANNOT be pin compatible to the 68000, and when also the bus interface differs as mentioned (I don't know details), then I wouldn't see any possibility to put it into a normal Amiga. Will be fun in some years after 68040, 68050 and 68060 when Motorola will learn that they can't continue this thread, or is it already scheduled that this chip family will be closed then??? BTW, nice topic for a sources newsgroup... -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ rutgers!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
lshaw@walt.cc.utexas.edu (logan shaw) (08/22/90)
In article <305@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >Will be fun in some years after 68040, 68050 and 68060 when Motorola >will learn that they can't continue this thread, or is it already >scheduled that this chip family will be closed then??? I hear Intel has plans all the way up to at least an 80786. How long can you keep a processor with such a nasty instruction set going? It'd be dead by now if the IBM pc weren't so standard. Actually, I believe the PC is FINALLY really beginning to fade away. >BTW, nice topic for a sources newsgroup... Yeah, we've all rebelled and started writing here, since comp.sys.amiga is so high-volume. (Is it already time for more comp.sys.amiga.#? groups again? If so, I recommend comp.sys.amiga.wish-lists, comp.sys.amiga.rumors, and comp.sys.amiga.forsale) >-- >Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to >Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ rutgers!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk ============================================================================ "The beauty queen, clevely clad, Logan Shaw admires herself in a cigarette ad. lshaw@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Will she admit that all was in vain ======================== when the face in her mirror cracks like a windowpane?" -Elim Hall, _Things_Break_
df1m+@andrew.cmu.edu (David A. Faler) (10/21/90)
I was looking around at the bboards, and saw this message, and saw it hadn't been replied to, so... The 68070 _does_ exit, but it's not a motorola chip. It basically a 60000, w/ * Full bus error recovery * decoded interupts * built in clock generator * MMU * 2-channel DMA controller * I^2C bus interface (up to 100Kbits/s) * UART interface that can use an external clock * 3 Timer registers There's alot of talk of this chip going on on internet.coco, since it's being used for the MM1. Why do you want to replace it anyway? It's actually a bit slower (15Mhz '70 = 12.5MHz '00). Granted it has some very nice additional features, but I'm not sure how you could reasonably change your system to take advantage of them. ----------------------------------------- David Faler Carnegie~-Mellon ~University df1m+@andrew.cmu.edu "It is not just a riot of blots and blurs and disjointed jottings linked by spurts of speed. . . it only looks as like it as damn it." - James Joyce Disclaimer: "Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson