xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (10/20/90)
There's a lot of this, please read it all before posting responses.
Please forgive the next few paragraphs of ranting to make administering
the changes possible for me.
THIS IS _NOT_, _NOT_, _NOT_ THE TIME TO VOTE (though I will accept
proxies from now to the vote announcement, from those who trust me to do
things right, or will be away for the holidays! ;-)
PLEASE NOTE AND RESPECT THE FOLLOWUP-TO LINE; we don't need the rest of
the discussion crossposted, this is just to gather the attention of
others who might want to participate in the discussion, but keep away
from the volume of comp.sys.amiga normally, and might miss the start of
things. (Done again for the first revision.)
PLEASE USE THIS THREAD SUBJECT WHEN RESPONDING to the Revision 1
proposal, to make it easy for me/others to pull this discussion up in
newsreaders.
PLEASE BE PATIENT; it is almost a month round trip to the extreme leaves
of the net, and everybody deserves at least one chance to voice a say.
If all goes well, we will have a new group proposal ready by November 1,
and the groups voted on and created in mid-January. There is no excuse
for early cross-posting to news.groups, and no excuse for the forged
newgroup control messages that have already gone out. Both just
irritate the rest of the net, whose support we _must_ have to get these
proposals accepted during the vote.
Thanks to those who have already emailed/posted suggestions. To
continue the effort of creating a coherent comp.sys.amiga partitioning
proposal for posting to news.announce.newgroups, here is my second cut
at a new group breakdown; as before, probably too many, probably
overlapped, probably left your favorite out; but, I hope this is an
improvement.
PLEASE EMAIL suggestions so I'm sure to keep them; post discussions as
well, of course. The creation of moderated groups posits the existance
of volunteers to moderate them. We've had a couple of volunteers, so we
can have at least a couple of moderated groups.
LITTLE TIN DICTATOR MODE: there is NEVER going to be a proposal that
satisfies everyone in every particular. The result is that I'm going to
make some fairly arbitrary choices about group names and group
partitioning, after reading all the input, and I'm bound to 1) let my
taste overwhelm my good sense once or twice, and 2) make at least one
choice you personally detest. That's the way life is among the Earthie
bushmen. If we could learn to be civilized, things would be better.
I hope people will vote for the proposal even though they personally
handle the traffic in c.s.a just fine and think having a dozen new
groups in their .newsrc or whatever would be the pits. The group size
is causing lots of problems at lots of sites, and spreading the
suffering out a little to help out those who are being overwhelmed is
the consensual anarchistic thing to do.
I hope people will vote for the proposal in toto, even though they think
a particular name or partitioning is less than ideal. Getting just part
of a proposal passed when it only makes sense as a whole is going to
make a hash of things.
Nevertheless, I _have_ _to_ propose the changes with a line by line vote
to satisfy the net new group creation rules; don't abuse the right to
pick and choose. When the vote comes, pull the c.s.a party lever, if
the proposal as a whole looks better than the current mess left as is.
The rest of the net will hack this up enough without the Amiga group's
help.
End rant mode.
To simplify things, a list of the proposed groups with a brief
description is first, and the discussion follows.
PROPOSAL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
comp.sys.amiga.misc
Replaces c.s.a; general talk group.
comp.sys.amiga.announce
Moderated: FF-disks, meetings, new products, product updates,
shareware releases, uploads to archives, bug reports, etc.
comp.sys.amiga.reviews
Moderated, archived: where to put your formally written up impressions
of new stuff: hardware and freeware, shareware, or commercial serious
and game software.
comp.sys.amiga.introduction
Frequently asked questions, how to use the groups, and other standard
and slow expiring postings, and newusers questions and the answers to
them from sympathetic gurus go here.
comp.sys.amiga.applications
Commercial and other, other than games, to focus the discussion; also
one of two followup-to groups for the reviews group discussions. How
to use, how to interface, etc.
comp.sys.amiga.hardware
As is, but pull review stuff to reviews, so this is more a how to get
working, bare metal solder hacking, and chat group; also the second
followup-to discussion group for reviews.
comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Discussing the interface between the programmer and the delivered
software (and possibly other tool level stuff in common use, SKsh,
Wshell, etc.), and how to do the software programming task under
AmigaOS or AmigaUnix. Renames comp.sys.amiga.tech
comp.sys.amiga.games
Talking about buying and playing games; games reviews go to .reviews,
but discussions go on here. Third followup-to discussion group for
.reviews.
comp.sys.amiga.market
For sale, want to buy, where do I buy, services for sale, vendor
evaluations, etc. postings, including games for sale postings.
comp.sys.amiga.multimedia
Graphics, video, music, speech, and multimedia combinations thereof.
comp.sys.amiga.emulations
Discussions of the several hardware and software emulations that run
on/in the Amiga.
comp.sys.amiga.compare
All the "here's what the other folks are doing and how the Amiga
compares" postings; benchmarks; discussions of future goals for the
Amiga, rumors.
comp.sys.amiga.unix
Amiga Unix SYSV4 and successors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSSION
1) The following groups from my prior proposal don't seem to have enough
support to stand as separate groups, and so are omitted from this
iteration or combined into other groups. Sudden groundswells of support
can restore any one to the next revision.
comp.sys.amiga.graphics
"Graphics hacks, algorithms and serious stuff for the amiga". Some
support, more opposition. Folded into programmer, for the how to do,
and multimedia or applications, for the how to use.
comp.sys.amiga.video
"For the person with a plan, a lot of time, and a VCR". Folded into
multimedia.
comp.sys.amiga.music
"For the MIDI crowd and the composers among us". Folded into
multimedia.
comp.sys.amiga.verbal
"Talking about spoken input and output". My personal hobby horse.
Sob! Folded into multimedia.
comp.sys.amiga.handicapped
"Special focus on Amiga and the handicapped". Folded into
misc.
comp.sys.amiga.productivity
"The Amiga as a tool to get other work done: CAD, DBMS, WP, DTP,
production video, Accounts Receivable, etc." I really like this name,
everyone who commented hated it. Oh, well. Folded into/renamed
applications.
comp.sys.amiga.education
"How to use the Amiga in a teaching environment". I'd really like
this one, but no one else sees the need. Folded into misc.
comp.sys.amiga.help
"I can't make xxx work with yyy; can someone tell me how?" Folded
into/renamed .introduction, for newbie stuff, and into .applications
and .hardware, for the more complex stuff.
comp.sys.amiga.futures
"Trying to help Commodore plan the future (also nags and rants, of
course!)" Some support, more opposition. Folded into/renamed compare.
comp.sys.amiga.services
"Things done for and by Amiga owners". Folded into market or left in
misc.
comp.sys.amiga.vendors
"Praise and horror stories". Folded into market or left in misc.
comp.sys.amiga.telecom
"Connecting Amigas in homogeneous and heterogeneous networks, terminal
emulators, DNET, SLIP, etc." Folded into applications for how to use,
programmer for how to create, hardware for how to wire up; or, left in
misc. Urk. I liked this one for focusing the discussion in one place.
2) A little chat about the proposed groups and their names and placement.
comp.sys.amiga.misc
This is the net standard "chat" subgroup name for groups that have
leafed. By creating this and removing c.s.a as a target for postings,
we force an immediate upgrade across the net; the proposal, once
newgrouped and rmgrouped, can't be "put off for later". This also has
some news software and general tidiness niceness for users; there
won't be a group that contains both articles and directories, so
scripts can be simpler.
comp.sys.amiga.announce
This seems highly popular, but there was a lot of call for a separate
for sale group, so the for sale stuff got moved to .market.
comp.sys.amiga.reviews
This seemed highly popular, also.
comp.sys.amiga.introduction
Lots of different possibilities for names and organization for this
exist; the names user, newuser, and help (at least) have been
proposed; this one seems clearest. The FAQ postings could also go to
.announce, but I think having them here with the newbie "help"
interaction is best placement.
comp.sys.amiga.applications
I really liked .productivity, but no one else did. Oh, well. The
.software name is too ambiguous, .apps might cause some problems for
English as a second language types; this seems best. There are still
going to be some crosspostings from .multimedia, but I don't intend to
waste the time trying for a "perfect" proposal, this seems likely to
focus the stuff wanted fairly well.
comp.sys.amiga.hardware
This should get a little more of its appropriate traffic now that
.tech is renamed and c.s.a is going away. This is one of my favorite
groups, because it is one whose content I rarely read, and I can find
the things I want to read just by reading the subject lines.
comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Renames .tech; this should eliminate the stuff appropriate for
.hardware, while still focusing the discussion around software
develop{ers,ment}. This change is just barely worth the nuisance of
doing it, but as long as were about the task, let's clean this up.
comp.sys.amiga.games
My baby! ;-) Needs to propagate a little better to match the current
c.s.a distribution, and I'm trying to get in touch with the
amiga-relay@udel.edu folks to get the relay subdivided, so games stuff
from them doesn't end up in c.s.a; this is another reason to newgroup
c.s.a.misc and nuke c.s.a. Anyway, the current success at damping
games postings to c.s.a shows what a good idea partitioning c.s.a is;
there are lots of people using this group, but also lots joyful _not_
to read it.
comp.sys.amiga.market
Granted it will be a bit more abused than a moderated group (do we
have a third volunteer who'd moderate this one?), I think my initial
move to fold this into .announce was a bad one; for sale notices are
low value traffic to most of the readership, and shouldn't be in the
"must read" group. There were almost as many names proposed as
proposals; I'm going to be a little tin dictator and choose this one.
Some have suggested using the netwide forsale group, but 1) no one
does, 2) this will get the ads out of .misc by creating an obvious
correct place to put them. Please DO NOT crosspost to _any_ other
newsgroup; that's obnoxious and you'll get flamed.
comp.sys.amiga.multimedia
There was a little support for shredding this out into multimedia,
graphics, music, video, speech, but there was more opposition; for
now, I bundled them all together, and we'll look again in 1992 or so.
The proposal to _have_ a multimedia group seemed well supported.
comp.sys.amiga.emulations
The support for this was mixed, but the traffic, the nuisance value,
and the increasing number of emulations (Where's that c.s.a.cray code?
;-) mandate this one, I think. See "little tin dictator mode" note,
above.
comp.sys.amiga.compare
The outbreaks of "why the Amiga should be a {mac,ps/2,atari-tt,etc.}"
postings are episodic, as are the real benchmark postings, but when
they hit, they're hell, so let's give them and the "what the Amiga
needs to adopt from new technology" a place here. The name's not
perfect for the futures part of the discussion, but it is more
important that it _is_ a grand magnet for the c.s.a version of
alt.computer.religous.wars, or whatever it's called.
comp.sys.amiga.unix
By the time this proposal is enacted, the A3000UX will be street
hardware/software, if all goes well on both sides. Let's save the
trouble of another vote in three months, and get this done now.
There are some problems with the name of this group. The net has a
lot of comp.unix.* groups, which puts a lot of pressure on moving this
out of c.s.a. However, I've read that the Amiga SYSV4 OS will be very
enhanced with Amiga specific goodies that wouldn't make sense to other
Unix systems, and I'd like to keep the Amiga specific Unix discussion
in the c.s.a heirarchy; the generic SYSV4 questions can go to a
comp.unix.sysv4 group, or whatever it's called. I have pretty strong
feelings on this one, but not strong enough to send me into little tin
dictator mode; let me/the group know your feelings on this one; I'm
willing to be out-shouted.
3) Moderators.
The moderators' job is to filter/pass on the suitability of postings, and
to add appropriate Followup-To: target newsgroups to postings.
We have at least these volunteers:
zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle)
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva)
Since I (almost) know Peter has FTP and other archives set up at his
site, and also since it's a commercial site with some long term Amiga
interest, I'd like to suggest that he take the "reviews" group so that
he can archive the reviews (and even digestify them together to have one
review document for several reviews, if you like, Peter).
Dan's site is nicely available for quick turnaround on announcements, so
I'd like to suggest that he moderate the announce group. Dan, can you
provide coverage for summer/breaks? Announce needs continuous
availability, even if that just means that moderation is replaced by an
autoposting mail-to-newsgroup script during vacation times.
In addition, limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) said he'd found
another volunteer to moderate, but gave no name.
4) Proposals not added.
comp.os.amiga
AmigaOS is not an operating system that ports to many vendor's products,
so it belongs in comp.sys.amiga, not the comp.os.* heirarchy.
comp.sys.amiga.rumors
Folded in with the computer wars stuff in c.s.a.compare; it's all the
same low nutritional value stuff, and the same crowd reads/posts both.
There were lots of others, but those two needed explaining.
5) Other comments.
The goal is to immediately turn comp.sys.amiga into a node rather
than a group. I have no plan to touch comp.{sources,binaries}.amiga,
nor alt.sources.amiga.
I want to avoid going five deep in the heirarchy, which is why I have
multimedia instead of the (uglier) .media.multi. If the graphics,
video, etc., groups get formed later, they can go beside, rather than
under, multimedia. Having a flat namespace under c.s.a is much prettier
and makes scripts easier to write.
To the complaints that we can't pass a vote with a lot of groups: we
not only can (comp.unix, comp.sys.mac, and the IBM-PC groups just did
so), the group is causing such sysadmin and readership problems, we
have to. A cut in two or three pieces won't be nearly enough.
To the complaints that the problems could all be solved with decent
subject lines and modern newsreaders: 1) people _don't_ use sensible
subject lines, and you won't change that behavior by wishful thinking;
2) many, many readers have no choice in their newsreaders, being in
BITNET land or other barbarian districts [ ;-) ], and some have only
"Mail" as a choice of newsreader for c.s.a. For the general readership,
therefore, this opinion is simply false, not to mention self-centered.
If I'm asked many times, fervently, (it's a horrid editing task of about
160K of stuff), I'll post an enormous compendium of email and posted
comments on the first version, but the above, I think, captures the
leanings and good new ideas, and I doubt anyone would actually read the
other.
Open season for support, comments, and criticisms; I'll comment on
responding postings as needed.
Kent, the man from xanth.
<xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>
--
And they're off! (Really I would have had this out right after BADGE,
but there was this post-meeting gathering at the Oasys, where Chuck
McMannis told some great stories, and this big pitcher of beer, and... ;-)phoenix@ms.uky.edu (R'ykandar Korra'ti) (10/20/90)
[]
I agree with the opinion that comp.sys.amiga definately needs splitting,
and I think the proposal listed here does an acceptable job of doing it. I'm
willing to vote for it as a package (though I'm not a big fan of
comp.sys.amiga.compare) in part simply because I'd like to get more hardware-
related traffic into comp.sys.amiga.hardware and out of c.s.a and c.s.a.t
(which I don't always read. :-) )
I do wonder whether c.s.a.compare and c.s.a.emulations could be rolled
into one, since they both deal very much with the same thing. Any commentary on
that?
Also, is someone willing to be a mailserver for each new c.s.a.#? group?
If not, there may be some individuals (on BITNET, etc) who miss out on material
as a result.
- R'ykandar.
--
R'ykandar Korra'ti | Editor, LOW ORBIT Science and Fiction
From TRHMS (Kermit); "They've got to sing 'The Time Warp' to WHAT?!"
phoenix@ms.uky.edu | editor@lorbit.UUCP | ukma!lorbit!editor | PLink: Skywisebleys@tronsbox.xei.com (Bill Cavanaugh) (10/21/90)
>---------- > Resp: 1 of 1 by [R'ykandar Korra'ti] > Date: Sat Oct 20 1990 19:02 > Lines:18 >16214@s.ms.uky.edu > >[] > I agree with the opinion that comp.sys.amiga definately needs splitting, >and I think the proposal listed here does an acceptable job of doing it. I'm >willing to vote for it as a package (though I'm not a big fan of >comp.sys.amiga.compare) in part simply because I'd like to get more hardware- >related traffic into comp.sys.amiga.hardware and out of c.s.a and c.s.a.t >(which I don't always read. :-) ) > I do wonder whether c.s.a.compare and c.s.a.emulations could be rolled >into one, since they both deal very much with the same thing. Any commentary > > - R'ykandar. >-- >R'ykandar Korra'ti | Editor, LOW ORBIT Science and Fiction >From TRHMS (Kermit); "They've got to sing 'The Time Warp' to WHAT?!" >phoenix@ms.uky.edu | editor@lorbit.UUCP | ukma!lorbit!editor | PLink: Skywise I'm in 100% agreement with R'ykandar. I'll gladly vote for the proposals, but feel that rolling emulations in with "c.s.a.compare" (anybody got an idea for a more intuitively understandable name?) would mean one less group to get pased, and the two subjects >are< uniquely related... /**************************************************************** * All of the above copyright by the below. * * Bill Cavanaugh uunet!tronsbox!bleys * * "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy." * ****************************************************************/
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (10/21/90)
In article <16214@s.ms.uky.edu> phoenix@ms.uky.edu (R'ykandar Korra'ti) writes: >[] > I agree with the opinion that comp.sys.amiga definately needs splitting, >and I think the proposal listed here does an acceptable job of doing it. I'm >willing to vote for it as a package (though I'm not a big fan of >comp.sys.amiga.compare) in part simply because I'd like to get more hardware- >related traffic into comp.sys.amiga.hardware and out of c.s.a and c.s.a.t >(which I don't always read. :-) ) Thanks. That's one of the goals > I do wonder whether c.s.a.compare and c.s.a.emulations could be rolled >into one, since they both deal very much with the same thing. Any commentary on >that? Well, folks who want to read and post about AMAX II (not me!) still probably don't want to read the MB-memorial postings for which .compare is intended. Little time as I personally have for emulations, I think the folks who _are_ interested deserve the same relief from wading through the religous wars as do the multimedia gurus, e.g. > Also, is someone willing to be a mailserver for each new c.s.a.#? group? >If not, there may be some individuals (on BITNET, etc) who miss out on material >as a result. I'm trying to arrange that with udel.edu; I can't even get a response from postmaster, root, or amiga-relay-request there so far. Any suggestions? Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (10/21/90)
I note another set of forged newgroup messages have arrived at sugar. Would the bozo in question quit it? ANyway, a pretty good proposal. I have just a couple of comments. > comp.sys.amiga.market Not a perfect name, but acceptable. I like the friendlier ".swapmeet" myself. Besides, c.s.a.market sounds like where you bitch about CBM's ad campaigns. > comp.sys.amiga.compare I have some strong opposition to the name ".compare". It encourages flame wars, and sends a signal to the rest of the net that the Amiga is a machine not to be taken seriously. It implies an inferiority complex. On the other hand, a name like ".futures" is more positive. It asks for positive ideas and criticism... you can include "comparisons with other machines" in the charter, but let's not make them the forefront. We don't need a flame group. I would be strongly inclined to vote against this group with this name, even if I vote straight party-line elsewhere. I'm sorry to bring up this sort of divisiveness at this point, but this name is pure flame-bait. If futures isn't enough, split it into futures and rumors. Or include all three, with a note that only "compare" or "futures+rumors" will be created. > Moderators: > peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) I'm going to have to withdraw until sugar can find a local MX. We can't afford to pay UUNET plus long distance for the volume of mail this will entail. > Since I (almost) know Peter has FTP and other archives set up at his > site, We have archives, but they're for BBS callers only. We have no FTP or anonymous UUCP access, and are not yet commercial. > comp.os.amiga Try "comp.os.tripos", for the Amiga and Sinclair Spectrum. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
hclausen@adspdk.UUCP (Henrik Clausen) (10/22/90)
In article <1990Oct19.231315.11667@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>, Kent Paul Dolan writes: > There's a lot of this, please read it all before posting responses. OK :-) > I hope people will vote for the proposal even though they personally > handle the traffic in c.s.a just fine and think having a dozen new > groups in their .newsrc or whatever would be the pits. The group size > is causing lots of problems at lots of sites. So true. I can't imagine following c.s.a for the next month, but I do want to vote ('Yes'). Perhaps a mailing list could be set up for the CFV's? > I hope people will vote for the proposal in toto. This here Rev. 1 proposal seems good to me, including nuking c.s.a! Perhaps a dislike for the .compare group, but it sure seems needed... > When the vote comes, pull the c.s.a party lever. Will be awaiting CFV eagerly. -Henrik | Henrik Clausen, Graffiti Data (Fido: 2:230/22.33) | | ...{pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmehq!adspdk!hclausen | \__"Do not accept the heart that is the slave to reason" - Qawwali trad__/
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (10/22/90)
In <591@DIALix.oz.au>, bernie@DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) writes: > >All those UNIX readers, who wouldn't give Amiga (that toy? ;-) a >second look, will be confronted with a query as to whether they want >to subscribe to comp.UNIX.amiga. They never looked inside c.s.a, or >gave up because of the volume. > >Given the alternative comp.sys.AMIGA.unix, which do you they're more >likely to subscribe to? (Ignore any penchant for Amigas, it's >difficult, I know.) I strongly agree with this. -larry -- It is not possible to both understand and appreciate Intel CPUs. -D.Wolfskill +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
bernie@DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) (10/22/90)
In article <1990Oct19.231315.11667@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >There's a lot of this, please read it all before posting responses. > I've done this... actually _printed_ it and read it at leisure (is there such a thing after netnews?) [ demented rantings deleted :-) ] > >PLEASE EMAIL suggestions so I'm sure to keep them; post discussions as Done.. [ more demented rantings deleted :-) ] Here are my suggestions and biased opinions: comp.sys.amiga.misc ........... Very important. comp.sys.amiga.announce ....... Essential. comp.sys.amiga.reviews ....... Very good. Who's going to write them? comp.sys.amiga.introduction ... Different name might be better (slow cooker) comp.sys.amiga.applications ... OK comp.sys.amiga.hardware ....... OK - I can smell the solder already comp.sys.amiga.programmer ..... Beaut' (oztraylyan for Great) comp.sys.amiga.games .......... One less I have to read comp.sys.amiga.market ......... That should cut the traffic to c.s.a.misc comp.sys.amiga.multimedia ..... You can put your voice in hear (sic) :-) comp.sys.amiga.emulations ..... Only if you insist comp.sys.amiga.compare ........ Could contain "futures" discussions as well comp.sys.amiga.unix ........... Strongly disagree! see below Further possible at a later stage... Separate later ================================= comp.sys.amiga.telecom ........ Better call it c.s.a.connect. You might have problems with British T., or organizations in other countries with the use of "telecom" :-) OBJECTIONS: =========== >comp.sys.amiga.unix The _name_ is wrong, and your description excluded Minix, and other Unix-like OS's which may be ported (Mach??). > There are some problems with the name of this group. The net has a ====================== > lot of comp.unix.* groups, which puts a lot of pressure on moving this > out of c.s.a. However, I've read that the Amiga SYSV4 OS will be very > enhanced with Amiga specific goodies that wouldn't make sense to other > Unix systems, and I'd like to keep the Amiga specific Unix discussion That's why you have a c.u.amiga area. It advertises the differences to the unix population. > in the c.s.a heirarchy; the generic SYSV4 questions can go to a > comp.unix.sysv4 group, or whatever it's called. I have pretty strong > feelings on this one, but not strong enough to send me into little tin > dictator mode; let me/the group know your feelings on this one; I'm > willing to be out-shouted. OK you little semi-dictator :-). I have a _very_ good reason to make the group comp.unix.amiga! Most Important. All those UNIX readers, who wouldn't give Amiga (that toy? ;-) a second look, will be confronted with a query as to whether they want to subscribe to comp.UNIX.amiga. They never looked inside c.s.a, or gave up because of the volume. Given the alternative comp.sys.AMIGA.unix, which do you they're more likely to subscribe to? (Ignore any penchant for Amigas, it's difficult, I know.) Is one of the aims of newsgroups to create a greater understanding? How can we support that aim, if unix readers are discouraged from subscribing in the first place? This aspect is quite obvious to me. You must have overlooked it. Right? [ Hang on. I think this road is getting very bumpy ] -- ________Bernd_Felsche__________bernie@DIALix.oz.au_____________ [ Phone: +61 9 419 2297 19 Coleman Road ] [ TZ: UTC-8 Calista, Western Australia 6167 ]
papa@pollux.usc.edu (Marco Papa) (10/23/90)
In article <591@DIALix.oz.au> bernie@DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) writes: >Here are my suggestions and biased opinions: > >comp.sys.amiga.misc ........... Very important. >comp.sys.amiga.announce ....... Essential. >comp.sys.amiga.reviews ....... Very good. Who's going to write them? ... >Further possible at a later stage... Separate later >================================= >comp.sys.amiga.telecom ........ Better call it c.s.a.connect. > You might have problems with British T., or organizations > in other countries with the use of "telecom" :-) I don't see the telecom (or other) at a later stage. The volume of telecom messages is certainly as large as most of the other groups. If you don't like comp.sys.amiga.telecom, because of the UK company name, how about comp.sys.amiga.comm? Take the volume about A-Talk III, VLT, JRComm, Online! and BaudBandit combined and that is a pretty reasonable group. But guys, I hope this split happens soon. Today I logged in an 140 msgs were new on c.s.a. I just can't handle that. I have no choice but to unsubscribe to c.s.a, and just read c.s.a.tech. If anybody wants to ask questions about A-Talk III, I'm sorry but from now on they'll reach me only if posted to comp.sys.amiga.tech. I'll use c.s.a only in case new upgrades notices are released. Bye for now. See you in c.s.a.tech until a c.s.a.comm is available (if any) -- Marco -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Xerox sues somebody for copying?" -- David Letterman -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (10/23/90)
OK, I _said_ I could be outshouted; the name will be comp.unix.amiga! ;-)
Sheesh! Whatta buncha soreheads! ;-)
/// It's Amiga
/// for me: why
Kent, the man from xanth. \\\/// settle for
<xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> \XX/ anything less?
--
Convener, comp.sys.amiga grand reorganization.hclausen@adspdk.UUCP (Henrik Clausen) (10/25/90)
In article <27667@usc.edu>, Marco Papa writes: > In article <591@DIALix.oz.au> bernie@DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) writes: > >Further possible at a later stage... Separate later > >================================= > >comp.sys.amiga.telecom ........ Better call it c.s.a.connect. > Take the volume about A-Talk III, VLT, JRComm, Online! and BaudBandit > combined and that is a pretty reasonable group. I second that! Add DNet & AmigaUUCP, and you have a real healthy, or even large, group. Given the very nature of the net, I wonder how we missed that? The Modem.??? Echo's on Fido certainly thrive. Wonder if Ethernet and other networking stuff could go in there as well? > Bye for now. See you in c.s.a.tech until a c.s.a.comm is available (if any) Hope so :-) Have a nice day -Henrik | Henrik Clausen, Graffiti Data (Fido: 2:230/22.33) | | ...{pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmehq!adspdk!hclausen | \__"Do not accept the heart that is the slave to reason" - Qawwali trad__/
bpv9073@sjfc.UUCP (Brett VanSprewenburg) (10/25/90)
In article <591@DIALix.oz.au> bernie@DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) writes: >comp.sys.amiga.unix ........... Strongly disagree! see below > >OBJECTIONS: >=========== >>comp.sys.amiga.unix [ Good objections deleted ] >-- > ________Bernd_Felsche__________bernie@DIALix.oz.au_____________ >[ Phone: +61 9 419 2297 19 Coleman Road ] >[ TZ: UTC-8 Calista, Western Australia 6167 ] Bernd raises a good point concerning the restructuring of our beloved c.s.a. The reasoning behind making the amiga unix group c.s.unix.amiga makes good sense. Our great unknown wonder machine is just that: basically unknown; especially in those Unix guru circles. I know that we are fiercely independent crowd and like to do things the 'Amiga way.' But this time we should be with the rest of crowd, so that that fodder sees our machine as at least the equal to theirs; by placing our Unix implementation into the same nomenclature as others. If it is implementated the other, non-net-standard way, then anyone who has not been a reader of c.s.a. will not know what it's all about. "hmmm, comp.sys.amiga.unix, wonder if they might be porting some old BSD 4.2 code to that renegade platform..." ^^^This might be a typical reaction to someone not in the know. However, comp.unix.amiga demands attention and places it with all the other pc's running unix on a desktop. There's my feelings on the Amiga Unix subject, for what it's worth. I agree with basically all of Kent's other recomendations, that dictator :), except .emulations. Do we really need this one.... I vote no; maybe I just don't see the need. Layton... ==Brett== ...ccicpg!cci632!sjfc!bpv9073 OR ...rutgers!cci632!sjfc!bpv9073 Witty quote: "If you can't enjoy yourself, enjoy someone else!"
bill@bilver.UUCP (Bill Vermillion) (10/25/90)
In article <2151@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >In <591@DIALix.oz.au>, bernie@DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) writes: >> >>All those UNIX readers, who wouldn't give Amiga (that toy? ;-) a >>second look, will be confronted with a query as to whether they want >>to subscribe to comp.UNIX.amiga. They never looked inside c.s.a, or >>gave up because of the volume. >> >>Given the alternative comp.sys.AMIGA.unix, which do you they're more >>likely to subscribe to? (Ignore any penchant for Amigas, it's >>difficult, I know.) > >I strongly agree with this. As a non Amiga user, just trying to keep my system running for all users, I'd like to make this observation. Most of the Unix hierarchy doesn't really care about what machines the system runs on, because most implementation are close. THere are sub-groups for machine dependant variation, eg sysv386, etc, but a good majority of the Unix threads don't fit this category, and comp.unix.amiga should only be used for the system dependant categories. Don't worry about who thinks what of your "toy" (as referenced in line 1). I have one client who has a Unix system based on a Z8000 chip with a whopping 512K of RAM, that is running his business and 5 terminals. An Amiga is much more powerful than that. I just want to see the main group split so you don't keep giving my system fits with its "HUGE DIRETORY" error messages (as I have mentioned before). Don't worry about the Unix until it is out. Worry about getting this group organized first. bill -- Bill Vermillion - UUCP: uunet!tarpit!bilver!bill : bill@bilver.UUCP
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (10/26/90)
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes: >> comp.sys.amiga.market >Not a perfect name, but acceptable. I like the friendlier ".swapmeet" myself. >Besides, c.s.a.market sounds like where you bitch about CBM's ad campaigns. I like that! >> comp.sys.amiga.compare >hand, a name like ".futures" is more positive. It asks for positive ideas Hmmm. Futures sounds like it has something to do with the stock market. Personally, I dont like the group much, except as a place I can not subscribe to. In other words, I think the whole reason for this newsgroup is that we are hoping such people who like to compare machines or bitch (like -MB-) will post there and the rest of us will unsubscribe to it and be free of them. But I don't think it will work. Those kind of people like an audience, and if they know we aren't there to listen to them they will just come looking for us and post there. But if we are to have it, how about .bench? or .bitch :-) -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash