[comp.sys.amiga] Why is everyone bitching about Workbench

Lee_Robert_Willis@cup.portal.com (10/25/90)

Along this thread is a lot of complaints about how Workbench 1.3 is 
"unprofessional".   I _like_ WB1.3!  I use Macs at work, and I don't
find there interface more "professional" at all.  My only complaint 
is the visible scan lines, and that's not the fault of Workbench.

What is it specifically that people don't like about the old Workbench?

	Lee
	Lee_Robert_Willis@cup.portal.com

peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (10/26/90)

In article <35239@cup.portal.com> Lee_Robert_Willis@cup.portal.com writes:
> What is it specifically that people don't like about the old Workbench?

As the author of a fairly popular workbench replacement (browser), I'd like
to answer in two words: ".info files". Workbench 2.0 addresses the main
problem: the inability to manipulate *all* files with the workbench. It's
still single-threaded, which is a problem in a multitasking environment,
but it's good enough I don't use browser at all any more.
-- 
Peter da Silva.   `-_-'
<peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.

navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David C. Navas) (10/27/90)

In article <6895@sugar.hackercorp.com> peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>In article <35239@cup.portal.com> Lee_Robert_Willis@cup.portal.com writes:
>> What is it specifically that people don't like about the old Workbench?
>
>As the author of a fairly popular workbench replacement (browser), I'd like
>to answer in two words: ".info files". Workbench 2.0 addresses the main

And as an author of YAWBR (Jazzbench), I wouldn't mind putting in a few of
my own:
	1.  Windows can't be closed while directory is loaded.
		- in the incarnation of 2.0 I have, this is not fixed.
		- it's expecially severe when you open C:, and it takes 11
		   seconds to load it (on my A3000!).  Jazzbench takes about
		   4-5 secs.
	2.  Couldn't cancel any copy commands, and couldn't do anything
		while they were occuring anyway.
	3. (#include more_ranting_of_the_same)

	In the new WB2.0 I see the following problems.

	1.  Directory listings of things like c: take far longer than they
		should due to what looks like a problem finding space to
		slip an icon into.
	2.  Show_All_Files has to go back to disk to get the directory.
		On a floppy, that's painful.
	3.  Copies, drawer openings are still single-threaded.
	4.  No access to devices like prt: par: ser: pipe:, etc.

They did do a lot of things right, and improved somewhat the general
feel of the program.  But I'd like to be able to drag that text file onto
my prt: icon.  Either that or that idiot who wrote Jazzbench should write
one that runs under 2.0 :)

>but it's good enough I don't use browser at all any more.
and not quite good enough that I still miss running jazz.  Wish I knew why
it crashed under 2.0....


David Navas                                   navas@cory.berkeley.edu
"Excuse my ignorance, but I've been run over by my train of thought."  -me
								(and Calvin)

es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (10/27/90)

In article <29244@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU writes:
>
>And as an author of YAWBR (Jazzbench), I wouldn't mind putting in a few of
>my own:
>	4.  No access to devices like prt: par: ser: pipe:, etc.
>
	It would be TRIVIAL to create an icon that would copy the
file. Under 2.0 you can open a window or an icon which will
recognize when an icon is dropped on it. If someone else doesn't
do something like this (and I actually find some time in my life
8) I may try to do it myself. But as I probably won't have some
time somebody: take this as a challenge. Use AppIcon and do it!

>
>David Navas                                   navas@cory.berkeley.edu
>"Excuse my ignorance, but I've been run over by my train of thought."  -me
>								(and Calvin)


	-- Ethan

Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu

GorbachevAwards++;
free (SovietUnion);
IndependentRepublics += 15;

navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David C. Navas) (10/29/90)

In article <> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes:
>In article <29244@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU writes:
>>	4.  No access to devices like prt: par: ser: pipe:, etc.
>>
>	It would be TRIVIAL to create an icon that would copy the
>file. Under 2.0 you can open a window or an icon which will
>recognize when an icon is dropped on it.

But the point is, it would have been even more trivial to include this into
the Workbench in the first place.  Out of all the OS's in existence now, the
Amiga OS is probably the easiest to install the "drag file to prt: icon" idea.
Mac users (I have heard) have hacks, because they want it.  Our company wanted
to put it into our (IBM) product, but couldn't manage it, etc. etc.

IF they had multi-threaded the COPY command in the first place, a copy to
device only requires a check for a DEVICE flag, and then a copy of the file
without it's icon.

IE.  I never said it was impossible, I said it should have been in there to
begin with.  I just get frustrated when functionality of this marvelous
machine is denied to folks who don't know enough about the CLI.  These are
usually the same folks who either haven't heard, or won't touch PD-type
stuff.

>take this as a challenge. Use AppIcon and do it!

As long as you'r doing that.  Might as well incorporate spooler functionality.
And you're quite correct in saying that the new WB is better looking, and has
some very interesting "hook" implementations.

Here's a challenge for you:  is there any way to install a picture as the
background window's Layer-refresh-hook instead of the pattern fills?  My
limited knowledge has AppIcon, AppWindow and AppMenu, but no AppRefresh ;)

>	-- Ethan

David Navas                                   navas@cory.berkeley.edu
"Excuse my ignorance, but I've been run over by my train of thought."  -me
								(and Calvin)

es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (10/29/90)

In article <29299@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU writes:
>
>Here's a challenge for you:  is there any way to install a picture as the
>background window's Layer-refresh-hook instead of the pattern fills?  My
>limited knowledge has AppIcon, AppWindow and AppMenu, but no AppRefresh ;)
>
	It seems that the Amiga has a structure for every
function! It would be almost impossible to be familiar with all
parts of the Amiga's OS. I have just barely begun to learn any of
them!

>David Navas                                   navas@cory.berkeley.edu
>"Excuse my ignorance, but I've been run over by my train of thought."  -me
>								(and Calvin)


	-- Ethan

Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu

GorbachevAwards++;
free (SovietUnion);
IndependentRepublics += 15;

ken@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ken Farinsky - CATS) (10/29/90)

In article <1990Oct26.202218.23039@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes:
>In article <29244@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU writes:
>>
>>And as an author of YAWBR (Jazzbench), I wouldn't mind putting in a few of
>>my own:
>>	4.  No access to devices like prt: par: ser: pipe:, etc.
>>
>	It would be TRIVIAL to create an icon that would copy the
>file. Under 2.0 you can open a window or an icon which will
>recognize when an icon is dropped on it...Use AppIcon and do it!

This kind-of assumes a very simple file structure (can you say ASCII?).
You could make your program more complicated and have it handle IFF files,
but what would you do with word processor data files, 3-D objects,
postscript, and the like?  What happens when you copy a SMUS file to ser:?
This all works only if you have very simple data files or a very smart
program.
-- 
--
Ken Farinsky - CATS - (215) 431-9421 - Commodore Business Machines
uucp: ken@cbmvax.commodore.com   or  ...{uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!ken
bix:  kfarinsky

mrush@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matt "C P." Rush) (10/30/90)

In article <15446@cbmvax.commodore.com> ken@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ken Farinsky - CATS) writes:
>In article <1990Oct26.202218.23039@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes:
>>	It would be TRIVIAL to create an icon that would copy the
>>file. Under 2.0 you can open a window or an icon which will
>>recognize when an icon is dropped on it...Use AppIcon and do it!
>
>This kind-of assumes a very simple file structure (can you say ASCII?).
>You could make your program more complicated and have it handle IFF files,
>but what would you do with word processor data files, 3-D objects,
>postscript, and the like?  What happens when you copy a SMUS file to ser:?
>This all works only if you have very simple data files or a very smart
>program.

	Can you say "System Request"?  If the spooler (something like this
would HAVE to spool) doesn't understand a file type it should assume that
it's ASCII (very nasty) or it should pop up a requester asking if it should
be treated as ASCII or if it should skip it (the ever popular Retry/Cancel
options would do).

	As far as Word-Processor files, the IFF-FTXT definition SHOULD take
care of that, right?  Seriously, though, with many word processors supporting
AREXX the spooler could look at the default tool for the object, and attempt
to start the default tool with an AREXX script that would force the tool to
print the document (kind of like when you select a MacWrite document and
pull down PRINT from the file menu on a Mac)...

	And people who try to print SMUS files deserve whatever happens :-)

	-- Matt

    *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
    %    "I programmed three days        %      Beam me up, Scotty.      %
    %     And heard no human voices.     %     There's no Artificial     %
    %     But the hard disk sang."       %    Intelligence down here.    %
    %          -- Yoshiko                                                %
    %                            E-mail:  mrush@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu %
    *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
     This is a SCHOOL!  Do you think they even CARE about MY opinions?!

joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) (10/31/90)

ken@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ken Farinsky - CATS) writes:

> In article <1990Oct26.202218.23039@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.colu
> >In article <29244@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU writes:
> >>
> >>And as an author of YAWBR (Jazzbench), I wouldn't mind putting in a few of
> >>my own:
> >>	4.  No access to devices like prt: par: ser: pipe:, etc.
> >>
> >	It would be TRIVIAL to create an icon that would copy the
> >file. Under 2.0 you can open a window or an icon which will
> >recognize when an icon is dropped on it...Use AppIcon and do it!
> 
> This kind-of assumes a very simple file structure (can you say ASCII?).
> You could make your program more complicated and have it handle IFF files,
> but what would you do with word processor data files, 3-D objects,
> postscript, and the like?  What happens when you copy a SMUS file to ser:?
> This all works only if you have very simple data files or a very smart
> program.
> -- 
> --
> Ken Farinsky - CATS - (215) 431-9421 - Commodore Business Machines
> uucp: ken@cbmvax.commodore.com   or  ...{uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!ken
> bix:  kfarinsky

It's simple. Have the icon for each file have something that says like 
this in the tooltype

PRINTER=DRIVE:PATH/TO/PROGRAM

The path is the path to a driver that explains how toprint that 
particular file type. The program that handles the printer icon reffers 
to that driver to have it help handle the file. You might want to make 
the driver as a shared library, like iffprint.library, 
asciiprint.librarty, smusprint.library. smusprint.library wouldn't print 
the song as binary, but interpret it and print out the notes, and hwat 
instrument was used, etc.

-Joseph Hillenburg

UUCP: ...iuvax!valnet!joseph
ARPA: valnet!joseph@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu
INET: joseph@valnet.UUCP