cpca@iceman.jcu.oz (C Adams) (10/30/90)
In article <3422@corpane.UUCP>, sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: > BARRETT@owl.ecil.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > | I would like to add that most of the R&D on the original chipset was > |done by the original Amiga company, which was a very small company with > |only thousands of dollars to spend on R&D. Even though Commodore is not > |as big as, say, Apple, IBM, or Compaq, Commodore is still much, much > |bigger than the original Amiga company, with millions of dollars to spend > |on R&D. More money means less time to complete R&D. So, I maintain > |that the 32-bit chipset should be done by done, if Commodore has been > |working on it for any time at all. > > True, you can finish a project faster with more money than with no money, > but just because you have the bucks doesn't equate to a solution. Designing > IC's are a bit harder than you think. And if C= had announced their new chipset over a year ago, and weren't shipping in quantity by now, I think people would have been flaming Commodore even more for vapourware. If big chip companies like Motorola and Intel (with the i486 and 040) can't release bug free chips on time, it's a bit much to expect C= to. Also, the question of how C= is going to put a 32 bit chipset into the 500/2000 hasn't been addressed by the net. Perhaps, C= are going to need 2 chipsets. One full 32 bit set with the works (24 bit video etc), and one improved 16 bit set that might be faster that the old set, but only have 8 bit video. And what will C= improve in the new chip set, besides clockspeed and bandwidth (16 to 32 bits)? Personally I don't see them improving anything except sound, blitter and video (res && colour). The sprites will only be improved to take advantage of the new colours. Colin Adams You need to have a woman, before you can have a Sun :-) Email Address - cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au
fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) (11/01/90)
In article <1154@iceman.jcu.oz>, cpca@iceman.jcu.oz (C Adams) writes: > Commodore even more for vapourware. If big chip companies like > Motorola and Intel (with the i486 and 040) can't release bug free > chips on time, it's a bit much to expect C= to. Why? It's not like C= is new to the IC design game. They (or at least MOS Technology, which they bought a long time ago) was once one of the big guns in microprocessor design, having produced the 6502. Their staff was partially composed of ex-members of Motorola's 6800 team. I know of several recent that have gone to silicon without killer bugs on the first try. It takes work, and good design people, and good tools, but it can be done. Not to say that Moto and Intel's people aren't good...but big CISC projects like the 68040 and i486 are *really* complex beasts...likely a lot worse than a 32-bit chipset for the Amiga. -- ------------ The only drawback with morning is that it comes at such an inconvenient time of day. ------------
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (11/09/90)
In article <1154@iceman.jcu.oz> cpca@iceman.jcu.oz (C Adams) writes: >In article <3422@corpane.UUCP>, sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >> Designing IC's are a bit harder than you think. >And if C= had announced their new chipset over a year ago, and weren't >shipping in quantity by now, I think people would have been flaming >Commodore even more for vapourware. If big chip companies like >Motorola and Intel (with the i486 and 040) can't release bug free >chips on time, it's a bit much to expect C= to. There's also a world of difference between Commodore announcing a new chip set and Motorola or Intel announcing a new chip. Even with ECS, which was a drop-in replacement for the current Amiga chips, the main point of any Commodore announcement is, "here's what's going in our system". You can bet that if ECS had required a new system and didn't simply drop in, you wouldn't have heard much if anything outside of nondisclosure until the A3000 was introduced. Moto and Intel, on the other hand, are mainly concerned with sales of chips, though both do run small computer board and/or system level businesses. If Intel has a new chip and Moto don't have an answer to it, or visa-versa, you may very well find designers going over to this new chip, even if they favor the other company. So these chip guys pre-announce their new chips, and it's getting worse -- some IC companies are starting to make announcements when the design is done, before they even have first silicon. In some respect, they don't have much to lose from early announcements. It may take a year for systems to be designed to work with the new parts, and their old customers are still making systems with the old parts. So they hope for new design wins even before the chips are available. This can have a slowdown of some kind on the older chips, since you may hold off on the purchase of your new DH0030z based system if you hear about this great new DH0040z system coming along. But probably not, since everyone expects to wait 6 months to a year or more for the new chips to actually materialize. If Commodore started talking about some fancy new chip to go into some fancy new computer 6 months to a year before the thing was ready, they invite the "Osborne Syndrome", in which everyone stops buying the old machine in anticipation of the new machine. You'll notice the main folks actually talking about particular 68040 systems are those who say either [a] here's a system that's an '040 system, only we put an '030 in it so you can buy now and upgrade later, or [b] we're not selling any of these '030 systems, so we might as well make a splash with some '040 system announcements. >Colin Adams You need to have a woman, before you can have a Sun :-) -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM