joachim@urz.unibas.ch (11/02/90)
When I asked a local dealer about the availability of the A2320 deinterlacer he told me it would be better to wait for the KS2.0 enhancer package for the B2000. This package, consisting of the ECS chipset, the KS2.0-ROMS and the new WB-Disks, provides (according to the dealer) the same functionality as the A2320. So my question is: Would the A2320 really be made useless by the upgrade package ? Should anyone out there in Netland know the answer please let me know. Thanks ! Peter Joachim <joachim@urz.unibas.ch>
hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) (11/03/90)
In article <1990Nov2.083908.1102@urz.unibas.ch> joachim@urz.unibas.ch writes: >When I asked a local dealer about the availability of the A2320 >deinterlacer he told me it would be better to wait for the KS2.0 >enhancer package for the B2000. > >This package, consisting of the ECS chipset, the KS2.0-ROMS and the >new WB-Disks, provides (according to the dealer) the same functionality >as the A2320. > >So my question is: >Would the A2320 really be made useless by the upgrade package ? > >Should anyone out there in Netland know the answer please let me know. > >Thanks ! >Peter Joachim <joachim@urz.unibas.ch> I think your dealer is VERY confused! The ECS modes that provide a 31.5Khz display, namely Productivity mode and Productivity Interlaced modes use up vast amounts of your systems bandwidth and limit you to just 4 colors. The A2320 is a totally transparent device that has no impact on your systems bandwidth and works with all 12-bits of RGB for up to 4096 colors on your display. The ECS and A2320 can work together to provide the best of both as automatically as possible for to enhance as many of the Amiga's video modes as possible. I hope this helps! Enjoy, Scott Hood -- -- Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!"
lcline@sequent.com (Larry Cline) (11/03/90)
In article <1990Nov2.083908.1102@urz.unibas.ch> joachim@urz.unibas.ch writes:
When I asked a local dealer about the availability of the A2320
deinterlacer he told me it would be better to wait for the KS2.0
enhancer package for the B2000.
This package, consisting of the ECS chipset, the KS2.0-ROMS and the
new WB-Disks, provides (according to the dealer) the same functionality
as the A2320.
So my question is:
Would the A2320 really be made useless by the upgrade package ?
Should anyone out there in Netland know the answer please let me know.
Thanks !
Peter Joachim <joachim@urz.unibas.ch>
No. The 2.0 enhancement does not add the functionality of the 2320. The
Denise in the new chipset will add the new productivity modes and the
new de-interlaced modes but it will not take out the flicker in the existing
interlace modes. In the 3000 this is handled by the Amber chip and associated
circuits (which is not part of the 2.0 enhancement for 2000's). The 2320
adds the functionality of the Amber to the 2000.
Larry Cline
lcline@sequent.sequent.com
".sig! Contractors don't need no stinkin' .sig!!!"wfaust@venus.UUCP (Wolf Faust) (11/03/90)
>In article <1990Nov2.083908.1102@urz.unibas.ch> joachim@urz.unibas.ch writes: >When I asked a local dealer about the availability of the A2320 >deinterlacer he told me it would be better to wait for the KS2.0 >enhancer package for the B2000. First of all: It depends on what you are doing... in most cases I woul'd prefer the A2320 card because there is no decrease in speed. (I aspect other people here telling you more about why and how) Second: there isn't much software out there supporting ECS... Third: There are also other good deinterlace cards available. There is a flickerfixer available from MacroSystems (Germany +(49) 2330 801132). This flickerfixer supports all modes and frequency (same as A2320). This deinterlacer is not build on the amber chip (so there should be no flickering line at the top!) And more... there is a special mode with 100Hz!!! This is done by a fine trick. A hires-interlace screen (50Hz) is displayed as hires (100Hz). And more... there is an additional valvo 8W amplifyer on board! So you can easily connect your speakers for the nice amiga sound! And more... the price is DM498 ($332). With additional Sony(!) stereo speakers: DM549 ($366) ----- Wolf Faust UUCP:cbmvax.commodore.com!cbmehq!cbmger!venus!wfaust Tel: (+49)69 5486556(voice) FIDO: 2:243/43.5
sdl@linus.mitre.org (Steven D. Litvinchouk) (11/05/90)
In article <wfaust.4394@venus.UUCP> wfaust@venus.UUCP (Wolf Faust) writes: > Third: There are also other good deinterlace cards available. > There is a flickerfixer available from MacroSystems (Germany +(49) > 2330 801132). This flickerfixer supports all modes and frequency > (same as A2320). This deinterlacer is not build on the amber chip > (so there should be no flickering line at the top!) This is the first I'd heard of this card or this company. Do you have the mailing address of the Macrosystems company? -- Steven Litvintchouk MITRE Corporation Burlington Road Bedford, MA 01730 (617)271-7753 ARPA: sdl@mbunix.mitre.org UUCP: ...{att,decvax,genrad,necntc,ll-xn,philabs,utzoo}!linus!sdl "Where does he get those wonderful toys?"
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (11/05/90)
In article <1990Nov2.083908.1102@urz.unibas.ch> joachim@urz.unibas.ch writes: >When I asked a local dealer about the availability of the A2320 >deinterlacer he told me it would be better to wait for the KS2.0 >enhancer package for the B2000. > >This package, consisting of the ECS chipset, the KS2.0-ROMS and the >new WB-Disks, provides (according to the dealer) the same functionality >as the A2320. That's nonsense. The ECS chipset doesn't contain the Amber chip which does the deinterlacing, that's a separate issue, covered by the A2320. So you would need this if you want to get the effect. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
glin@lehi3b15.csee.Lehigh.EDU (George Lin [900116]) (11/06/90)
In article <15556@cbmvax.commodore.com> hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes: >I think your dealer is VERY confused! The ECS modes that provide a >31.5Khz display, namely Productivity mode and Productivity Interlaced >modes use up vast amounts of your systems bandwidth and limit you to >just 4 colors. The A2320 is a totally transparent device that has no >impact on your systems bandwidth and works with all 12-bits of RGB for >up to 4096 colors on your display. The ECS and A2320 can work together If this is true, then why do you need the productivity mode since in a previous e-mail, you wrote: "Yes, the A2320 and the A3000 both de-interlace the hi-res 16 colors as well as the HAM modes (4096 at one time)." Wouldn't you just use the de-interlaced hi-res for productivity? BTW, My motherboard version is either 4.2 or 4.3, will I need to upgrade this to make it work with the WB2.0 or A2320? If so, how & ?$? >Enjoy, >Scott Hood > >-- >-- >Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. > {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com > "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!" GLin
wfaust@venus.UUCP (Wolf Faust) (11/06/90)
>In article <SDL.90Nov4133812@lyra.linus.mitre.org> sdl@linus.mitre.org (Steven D. Litvinchouk) writes: >In article <wfaust.4394@venus.UUCP> wfaust@venus.UUCP (Wolf Faust) writes: > >> There is a flickerfixer available from MacroSystems (Germany +(49) >> 2330 801132). This flickerfixer supports all modes and frequency >> (same as A2320). This deinterlacer is not build on the amber chip >the mailing address of the Macrosystems company? Never heard of it??? They also made the medusa Atari St (now and new: TT for turbos) emulator which is far better than the chameleon emulator. They also build a SCSI controller, a graphic tablet (really cheap and phantastic resolution!!), memory boards... Address: Macro Systems Gahlenfeldstrasse 6 W-5804 Herdecke Germany TEL +(49) 2330-801132 FAX +(49) 2330-73055 ------------ Wolf Faust UUCP:cbmvax.commodore.com!cbmehq!cbmger!venus!wfaust Tel: (+49)69 5486556 FIDO: 2:243/43.5
hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) (11/09/90)
In article <1239@lehi3b15.csee.Lehigh.EDU> glin@lehi3b15.csee.Lehigh.EDU (George Lin [900116]) writes: >In article <15556@cbmvax.commodore.com> hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes: > >>I think your dealer is VERY confused! The ECS modes that provide a >>31.5Khz display, namely Productivity mode and Productivity Interlaced >>modes use up vast amounts of your systems bandwidth and limit you to >>just 4 colors. The A2320 is a totally transparent device that has no >>impact on your systems bandwidth and works with all 12-bits of RGB for >>up to 4096 colors on your display. The ECS and A2320 can work together > >If this is true, then why do you need the productivity mode since in a >previous e-mail, you wrote: >"Yes, the A2320 and the A3000 both de-interlace the hi-res 16 colors as well > as the HAM modes (4096 at one time)." > >Wouldn't you just use the de-interlaced hi-res for productivity? > >BTW, My motherboard version is either 4.2 or 4.3, will I need to upgrade this >to make it work with the WB2.0 or A2320? If so, how & ?$? > >>Enjoy, >>Scott Hood >> >>-- >>-- >>Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. >> {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com >> "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!" > >GLin You don't need productivity mode to have the A2320 do it's thing! I said this about the A3000 because the A2320 circuitry is built-in to the A3000. Both the A2320 and the built-in display enhancer on the A3000 can work with the productivity in that the display enchancer gets out of the way of the custom chip set that produces this ECS modes. I would recommend that if you have an A3000 or an A2000 with the A2320 card installed that you always use the hi-res (non-ECS modes) modes for better system throughput rather than the ECS video mode called `productivity mode'. Also, the A2320 works in all A2000 machines that have the two 36-pin connectors of the video slot. What I was refering earlier to was those German A2000 motherboard that only have one 36-pin connector which is only half of what we all know and love called the video slot. You can determine if you have one of the very early German designs by looking at your video slot. If only one 36-pin connector, then you have the early machine and you cannot use the A2320. If two 36-pin connectors in line with each other are on your A2000, then you can use the A2320 in your system!. Regards, Scott Hood -- -- Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!"
swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) (11/10/90)
In article <1239@lehi3b15.csee.Lehigh.EDU> glin@lehi3b15.csee.Lehigh.EDU (George Lin [900116]) writes: >In article <15556@cbmvax.commodore.com> hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes: [...patient explanation of why ECS & 2320 do different functions deleted...] >If this is true, then why do you need the productivity mode since in a >previous e-mail, you wrote: >"Yes, the A2320 and the A3000 both de-interlace the hi-res 16 colors as well > as the HAM modes (4096 at one time)." Because the ECS and the 2320 (equivalent circuitry on the motherboard) are both in the 3000. But the ECS does not incompass the 2320. If you buy the ECS you get productivity modes. If you buy the 2320 you get deinterlacing of normal interlaced video modes. These are totally different and disjoint screen modes. Both are included built-in on the 3000. Neither is included in current A2000s, but you can get either or both (ultimately), depending on what you want to do with your machine. Productivity mode is a way to include deinterlaced video in the normal Amiga without resorting to the expensive memory and control circuitry on a flicker-fixer. It is probably included in the 3000 for compatibility reasons. Once they start building A2000s with the ECS built-in then you (the owner of a new ECS-equipped Amiga) will already have one way to get deinterlaced video output. For you the 2320 will be an enhancement beyond the more limited capabilities of the ECS. ECS will become the base machine, and the 2320 will be your option to improve that capability. If you don't already have the ECS in your non-3000 machine (and who does?) then you may just want to get the 2320 and blow off the ECS. Of course then you'll be in the same boat as us 1000 owners with no half-bright mode. ;^) (ie, lacking at least one of the video modes of the latest base machine). \ (Note smug smiley) My 1000 didn't melt and run into a puddle of slag on the floor when half-bright came out. I'm sure it won't do it now either. BTW - Scott Hood, are there any plans (that you can talk about) to do a 520 or whatever - a 2320 for the 500? Maybe just an adapter like Microway sells? -- _. --Steve ._||__ DISCLAIMER: All opinions are my own. Warren v\ *| ---------------------------------------------- V {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM
hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) (11/13/90)
In article <108475@convex.convex.com> swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >In article <1239@lehi3b15.csee.Lehigh.EDU> glin@lehi3b15.csee.Lehigh.EDU (George Lin [900116]) writes: >>In article <15556@cbmvax.commodore.com> hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes: > >[...patient explanation of why ECS & 2320 do different functions deleted...] > >>If this is true, then why do you need the productivity mode since in a >>previous e-mail, you wrote: >>"Yes, the A2320 and the A3000 both de-interlace the hi-res 16 colors as well >> as the HAM modes (4096 at one time)." > >Because the ECS and the 2320 (equivalent circuitry on the motherboard) are >both in the 3000. But the ECS does not incompass the 2320. If you buy the >ECS you get productivity modes. If you buy the 2320 you get deinterlacing >of normal interlaced video modes. These are totally different and disjoint >screen modes. Both are included built-in on the 3000. Neither is included >in current A2000s, but you can get either or both (ultimately), depending on >what you want to do with your machine. > >Productivity mode is a way to include deinterlaced video in the normal >Amiga without resorting to the expensive memory and control circuitry on >a flicker-fixer. It is probably included in the 3000 for compatibility >reasons. Once they start building A2000s with the ECS built-in then you >(the owner of a new ECS-equipped Amiga) will already have one way to get >deinterlaced video output. For you the 2320 will be an enhancement beyond >the more limited capabilities of the ECS. ECS will become the base machine, >and the 2320 will be your option to improve that capability. > >If you don't already have the ECS in your non-3000 machine (and who does?) >then you may just want to get the 2320 and blow off the ECS. Of course >then you'll be in the same boat as us 1000 owners with no half-bright mode. >;^) (ie, lacking at least one of the video modes of the latest base machine). > \ > (Note smug smiley) > >My 1000 didn't melt and run into a puddle of slag on the floor when >half-bright came out. I'm sure it won't do it now either. > >BTW - Scott Hood, are there any plans (that you can talk about) to do a > 520 or whatever - a 2320 for the 500? Maybe just an adapter like > Microway sells? > >-- > _. >--Steve ._||__ DISCLAIMER: All opinions are my own. > Warren v\ *| ---------------------------------------------- > V {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM I have thought about just such a beast but it would be more expensive than the A2320 is today due to the A/D, power supply, casework, etc. I am not so sure that the average A500 user would be so willing to pay fo for this and a multisync monitor as well. If someone is that interested in using their A500 machine for productivity applications then the ECS might be the better (less expensive) approach. Thus, it has been discussed and probably will not be pursued. This might be a very good third party problem to solve, hint, hint!! Please do not send me massive email to the effect "we want an A500 version of the A2320!", I need to get some work done :-). Scott Hood P.S. By the way, that was a very good answer Steve! -- -- Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!"