griff@anvil.intel.com (Richard Griffith) (11/06/90)
Yo! This is just curiosity - but, here is a general query for the Net - what languages (compilers, interpeters, etc.) are available for Amiga? I've got Manx C, but was getting curious about things like Modula-II, Pascal, Forth, Lisp, Prolog, ---- What's available? :Richard E. Griffith, "griff" : iNTEL, Hillsboro Ore. :griff@anvil.hf.intel.com :SCA!: Cyrus Hammerhand, Household of the Golden Wolf, Dragons' Mist, An Tir :These are MY opinions, if iNTEL wanted them, They'd pay for `em!
UH2@psuvm.psu.edu (Lee Sailer) (11/08/90)
In article <1990Nov6.155810.20604@intelhf.hf.intel.com>, griff@anvil.intel.com (Richard Griffith) says: >what languages (compilers, interpeters, etc.) are available for Amiga? >I've got Manx C, but was getting curious about things like Modula-II, >Pascal, Forth, Lisp, Prolog, ---- What's available? Briefly: The two C compilers are both good, as are a couple of the freeware C compilers The M2's are pretty good. There is an OK commercial Pascal and an OK PD Pascal There are excellent commercial forths The PD lisp and prolog scene is pretty good. There is an excellent Draco, and Oberon has recently appeared. There are two C++ systems, but not the latest version. There is a good Fortran, and several decent Basics. AREXX is a very fine implementation of IBM mainframe REXX, and then some. NOTABLY MISSING? Smalltalk, SQL, Mathematica, Obj-C, Eiffel COBOL What'd I forget??
joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) (11/08/90)
griff@anvil.intel.com (Richard Griffith) writes: > > Yo! This is just curiosity - but, here is a general query for the Net - > > what languages (compilers, interpeters, etc.) are available for Amiga? > I've got Manx C, but was getting curious about things like Modula-II, > Pascal, Forth, Lisp, Prolog, ---- What's available? > > > :Richard E. Griffith, "griff" : iNTEL, Hillsboro Ore. > :griff@anvil.hf.intel.com > :SCA!: Cyrus Hammerhand, Household of the Golden Wolf, Dragons' Mist, An Tir > :These are MY opinions, if iNTEL wanted them, They'd pay for `em! Umm. Here's what I can think of off the top of my head. C: SAS/C 5.10 (the best, IMHO), Manx C (Version?) PCD, gcc, NorthC Sozobon C, others? C++: Sorry. All I can think of right now if Lattice C and the future of that is uncertain. Pascal: Metacomco Pascal (yuck), KickPascal, PCQ Modula II: M2Sprint, BenchMark Modula II Lisp: XLisp, XLispStat, Xscheme -Joseph Hillenburg UUCP: ...iuvax!valnet!joseph ARPA: valnet!joseph@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu INET: joseph@valnet.UUCP
jnmoyne@lbl.gov (Jean-Noel MOYNE) (11/08/90)
In article <90311.140732UH2@psuvm.psu.edu> UH2@psuvm.psu.edu (Lee Sailer) writes: > > The PD lisp and prolog scene is pretty good. > I agree for the lisp (with AMXLisp), but I've never heard of a Prolog. Where is it ? > NOTABLY MISSING? Smalltalk, SQL, Mathematica, Obj-C, Eiffel > COBOL > SQL: I don't believe we'll see this one soon. Just wait for UNIX, and you'll get it. COBOL: There's no Amiga-COBOL, because NOBODY WANTS ONE !!! ((-: JNM -- These are my own ideas (not LBL's) " Just make it!", BO in 'BO knows Unix'
mt87692@tut.fi (Mikko Tsokkinen) (11/08/90)
> (Richard Griffith) says: > >what languages (compilers, interpeters, etc.) are available for Amiga? > >I've got Manx C, but was getting curious about things like Modula-II, > >Pascal, Forth, Lisp, Prolog, ---- What's available? > Briefly: > The two C compilers are both good, as are a couple of the freeware C compilers > The M2's are pretty good. > There is an OK commercial Pascal and an OK PD Pascal > There are excellent commercial forths > The PD lisp and prolog scene is pretty good. > There is an excellent Draco, and Oberon has recently appeared. > There are two C++ systems, but not the latest version. > There is a good Fortran, and several decent Basics. > AREXX is a very fine implementation of IBM mainframe REXX, and > then some. > NOTABLY MISSING? Smalltalk, SQL, Mathematica, Obj-C, Eiffel > COBOL > What'd I forget?? PD Postscript Many good assembler packages both commercial and PD Scheme and some other lisps What'd I forged? MIT -- Lets buy a dog!
amiga@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Paul) (11/08/90)
Where can I get PD Postscript?????? Amiga@walt.utexas.edu .....Paul...... I like boats, they're healthier than valium. Cost more tho.
hill@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Adam Hill) (11/08/90)
In article <7961@dog.ee.lbl.gov> jnmoyne@lbl.gov (Jean-Noel MOYNE) writes: > >> > > SQL: I don't believe we'll see this one soon. Just wait for UNIX, >and you'll get it. There IS someone working on a SQL engine for the Amiga. I just got through reading the thread on BIX. Release is slated for 2nd quarter 1991. This person said the engine is 100K and the SQL parser is 15K.. RIGHT NOW. It even has a AREXX port. -- adam hill "I will tell you three things.." hill@evax.arl.utexas.edu Make Up Your Own Mind.. AMIGA! Amiga... Multimedia NOW!! 24 Bit Color(n.) Large waster of bandwidth. "Amiga walk with me ........"
UH2@psuvm.psu.edu (Lee Sailer) (11/09/90)
> There IS someone working on a SQL engine for the Amiga. I just got through >reading the thread on BIX. Release is slated for 2nd quarter 1991. This person >said the engine is 100K and the SQL parser is 15K.. RIGHT NOW. > It even has a AREXX port. A simple SQL server on the Amiga shouldn't be that hard. If you are only planning on smallish databases of a few thousand tuples per relation, optimization need not be very sophisticated. And then, as users demand more, better optimizers would appear as needed. lee
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (11/09/90)
In article <90311.140732UH2@psuvm.psu.edu> UH2@psuvm.psu.edu (Lee Sailer) writes: >In article <1990Nov6.155810.20604@intelhf.hf.intel.com>, griff@anvil.intel.com >(Richard Griffith) says: >Briefly: >GOTS: C, M2, Pascal, Forth, LISP, Prolog, Draco, Oberon, C++, Fortran, BASIC, REXX >DON'T GOTS: Smalltalk, SQL, Mathematica, Obj-C, Eiffel, COBOL >What'd I forget?? In the GOTS column, the PD version of Icon, which very effectively eliminates the need for a SNOBOL-4. And a PD version of Scheme, too. There was at one point (I saw it at the very first AmiExpo, in NYC) a rather vanilla APL interpreter, which would actually be reasonably on an FPU equipped machine. There is the Commodore marketed Logo, for anyone interested in turtles and babylisp. And I think there's a Comal interpreter out now. I suspect the net's C-based Intercal has been ported, too. Now there's a language for REAL programmers. I don't know of any Ada shipping, though I did hear a rumor of an Ada planned from OXXI. And while there are two LISPs, neither is one I'm all that familiar with, of the oldstyle MACLISP or InterLISP mold if not CommonLISP, and there's no true LISP compiler. And, though it probably doesn't matter to most folks out there, I guess we're still missing Algol, PL/1, PL/M, Modula III, COGENT, SAIL, POP-2, IPL, BLISS, ISPS, Actor, SL5, CORC, Promol, RATFOR, KISS, SAM76, ADL, WHEREFOR, SALT, OPS5, LOBSTER, .... Well, you get the idea. Incidently, I've only programmed in 18 of the languages mentioned on this page, if you count all the LISPs as one. But that's cheating, since one of them was my senior year compiler class project in college. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM
griff@anvil.intel.com (Richard Griffith) (11/09/90)
In article <90311.140732UH2@psuvm.psu.edu>, UH2@psuvm.psu.edu (Lee Sailer) writes: > From: UH2@psuvm.psu.edu (Lee Sailer) > Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga > Subject: Re: Query for the Net > <stuff deleted> *First* Thanks for the reply... > Briefly: > > The two C compilers are both good, as are a couple of the freeware C compilers I assume you mean Manx and Lattice here... PDC and gcc? > > The M2's are pretty good. which ones? I'm aware of Benchmark, TDI, M2Sprint, (is M2S the same?) who owns what? are they still selling? > > There is an OK commercial Pascal and an OK PD Pascal which ones? etc. etc. etc. > > There are excellent commercial forths > > The PD lisp and prolog scene is pretty good. > > There is an excellent Draco, and Oberon has recently appeared. > > There are two C++ systems, but not the latest version. > > There is a good Fortran, and several decent Basics. > > AREXX is a very fine implementation of IBM mainframe REXX, and > then some. > > NOTABLY MISSING? Smalltalk, SQL, Mathematica, Obj-C, Eiffel > COBOL > > What'd I forget?? (BTW - I've seen a PD implementation of smalltalk - dunno if it runs tho...) Assemblers? What uses AREXX? Are there source-level debuggers available? Yep, I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it NOW! :-) "...you may soon find out that 'having' is not so pleasing a thing as 'wanting'..." - Spock, Amok Time :Richard E. Griffith, "griff" : iNTEL, Hillsboro Ore. :griff@anvil.hf.intel.com :SCA!: Cyrus Hammerhand, Household of the Golden Wolf, Dragons' Mist, An Tir :These are MY opinions, if iNTEL wanted them, They'd pay for `em!
x194@cs.utexas.edu (Jonathan Abbey) (11/10/90)
In article <15735@cbmvax.commodore.com> (Dave Haynie) writes: >[..] And, though it probably doesn't matter to most folks >out there, I guess we're still missing Algol, PL/1, PL/M, Modula III, COGENT, ^^^^^^^^^^ >SAIL, POP-2, IPL, BLISS, ISPS, Actor, SL5, CORC, Promol, RATFOR, KISS, SAM76, >ADL, WHEREFOR, SALT, OPS5, LOBSTER, .... > >Well, you get the idea. Incidently, I've only programmed in 18 of the >languages mentioned on this page, if you count all the LISPs as one. But >that's cheating, since one of them was my senior year compiler class project >in college. > > I don't know about other folks, but I'd muchly like to see a Modula III implementation for my Ami.. yum! Also, I believe there is an OPS5 implementation on on of Fred's disks somewhere.. So, which language was your senior year class project? Are you BSCS/MSEE? >-- >Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" > {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy > Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM Jonathan Abbey (512) 472-2052 \ (512) 835-3081 jonabbey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu \ broccol@csdfx8a.arlut.utexas.edu The University of Texas at Austin \ Applied Research Laboratories
gwalborn@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Gary D Walborn) (11/10/90)
In article <MT87692.90Nov8030422@kaarne.tut.fi>, mt87692@tut.fi (Mikko Tsokkinen) writes: > > NOTABLY MISSING? Smalltalk, SQL, Mathematica, Obj-C, Eiffel > > COBOL I recently spoke with the people at Wolfram Research (Mathematica) and they are reconsidering their stance on writing Mathematica for the Amiga. It might be worthwhile to encourage their thoughts in this direction. I intend to send a letter (along with an order for the student version of Mathematica for the Mac) to them indicating that I would be willing to purchase a complete version for the Amiga, should one become available. Gary Walborn <gwalborn@unix.cis.pitt.edu>
cag4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Carson A Gaspar) (11/10/90)
In article <7961@dog.ee.lbl.gov> jnmoyne@lbl.gov (Jean-Noel MOYNE) writes: > > SQL: I don't believe we'll see this one soon. Just wait for UNIX, >and you'll get it. > COBOL: There's no Amiga-COBOL, because NOBODY WANTS ONE !!! ((-: > > JNM > >-- >These are my own ideas (not LBL's) >" Just make it!", BO in 'BO knows Unix' There is wonderfull SQL client software just around the corner. It should have an AREXX interface as well as lots of other neato-cool features. It will be released withing the next 6 months. The above is from my religious reading of BIX. The programmer is an active user and has been receiving lots of advice on what to put in his program. He may have even listened... _______________________________________________________________ / \ / BIX: cgaspar \ / C \ Carson A. Gaspar / Internet: cag4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu \ / CAG >-----------------< (Alternate) carson@close.cs.columbia.edu > \ G / IBM - is that \________________________________________/ /\___/\ Amiga compatible? / Don't try to outweird _me_! I get \ / \_________________/ stranger things than you free with my \ < Proud owner of an Amiga \ breakfast cereal! / \ 1000 with pawprints /\ -Zaphod Beeblebrox / \_______________________/ \______________________________________/
jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) (11/10/90)
In article <15735@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >>GOTS: C, M2, Pascal, Forth, LISP, Prolog, Draco, Oberon, C++, > Fortran, BASIC, REXX >>DON'T GOTS: Smalltalk, SQL, Mathematica, Obj-C, Eiffel, COBOL > >>What'd I forget?? > >In the GOTS column, the PD version of Icon, which very effectively eliminates >the need for a SNOBOL-4. And a PD version of Scheme, too. There is an APL, I hear Eiffel is being ported, and Maple is available (since you listed Mathematica). We of course have Rexx, also. In the lisp(like) world we have XLisp and Scheme. >I don't know of any Ada shipping, though I did hear a rumor of an Ada planned >from OXXI. rbrukhart on Bix (of R&R) said they were considering porting their validated Ada compiler to the Amiga after they did their Sun port. Tweak them if you want to see it actually get done. >out there, I guess we're still missing Algol, PL/1, PL/M, Modula III, COGENT, >SAIL, POP-2, IPL, BLISS, ISPS, Actor, SL5, CORC, Promol, RATFOR, KISS, SAM76, >ADL, WHEREFOR, SALT, OPS5, LOBSTER, .... You forgot SPITBOL, ML, Algol, FOCAL, and Euclid, Dave. ;-) -- Randell Jesup, Keeper of AmigaDos, Commodore Engineering. {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com BIX: rjesup Common phrase heard at Amiga Devcon '89: "It's in there!"
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (11/11/90)
jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) in <15771@cbmvax.commodore.com> writes: In article <15735@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie ) writes: >>GOTS: C, M2, Pascal, Forth, LISP, Prolog, Draco, Oberon, C++, > Fortran, BASIC, REXX >>DON'T GOTS: Smalltalk, SQL, Mathematica, Obj-C, Eiffel, COBOL > >In the GOTS column, the PD version of Icon, which very effectively eliminates >the need for a SNOBOL-4. And a PD version of Scheme, too. There is an APL, I hear Eiffel is being ported, and Maple is available (since you listed Mathematica). We of course have Rexx, also. In the lisp(like) world we have XLisp and Scheme. rbrukhart on Bix (of R&R) said they were considering porting their validated Ada compiler to the Amiga ... >out there, I guess we're still missing Algol, PL/1, PL/M, Modula III, COGENT, >SAIL, POP-2, IPL, BLISS, ISPS, Actor, SL5, CORC, Promol, RATFOR, KISS, SAM76, >ADL, WHEREFOR, SALT, OPS5, LOBSTER, .... You forgot SPITBOL, ML, Algol, FOCAL, and Euclid, Dave. ;-) Randell, you forgot CLU, MIDAS, SIMPL, RPG, CAL, CART (an AI lang early 60's) and a buncha others I've used over the years. Gee, this is fun reminiscing! :- ) Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (11/11/90)
And how could we forget MUDDL, the language in which ZORK was originally implemented! Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]
FelineGrace@cup.portal.com (Dana B Bourgeois) (11/12/90)
Don't mean to open a can of worms, BUT, for business programmers as opposed to system programmers, the dBase language is supported via dbMan. Now if someone would only do a CLipper-type compiler.....(hint, hint) Dana Bourgeois @ cuplportal.com
dix@clinet.fi (Risto Kaivola) (11/12/90)
When it comes to C-compilers, there is no reason to forget that GCC, Amiga version 1.37.1, is out. This package is named 'AGCC', and one of the ftp-sites which has it available is abcfd20.larc.nasa.gov There are probably other sites, but this is the only one I remember. Try /incoming/amiga and some file or files that start with agcc, I don't remember precisely. The only real drawback of this compiler is that to make anything reasonable with it, you will need at least 1.5 MBytes of memory and a hard disk. I have succesfully compiled small programs on my one-megabyte Amiga 500. It is equipped with two disk drives, so hard disk is not a necessity, but the compilation needed a setup which doesn't suit to any 'real use'. No text editors could be run at the same time, the disk containing the executables needed for AGCC was filled up 100%, no shell could be used, etc. There may be some compatibility problems with SAS (former Lattice) C, but there is no way Lattice could match the price/performance ratio offered by GCC. GCC comes free. Risto P.S. Thanks for those who did the port! -- Risto Kaivola Internet: dix@clinet.fi, UUCP: ...mcsun!santra!clinet!dix VOICE: + 358 367 249
UH2@psuvm.psu.edu (Lee Sailer) (11/13/90)
> You forgot SPITBOL, ML, Algol, FOCAL, and Euclid, Dave. ;-) >Randell, you forgot CLU, MIDAS, SIMPL, RPG, CAL, CART (an AI lang early 60's) >and a buncha others I've used over the years. Gee, this is fun reminiscing! Yeah. It is. So, who remembers JOSS, ISIS, and LLLLL? Or, who would want to? 8-)
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (11/13/90)
In article <35844@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >And how could we forget MUDDL, the language in which ZORK was originally >implemented! Because, like SNOBOL4, its obselete. You would use ADL (Adventure Design Language) to write any new adventure, right? Ok, so you'd probably use some easier thing, like an adventure construction set. And if we're considering mathematics languages (I didn't, but Randell did), we're still missing my favorite (because I've used it), MACSYMA. >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ] -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM
bobb@agora.uucp (Bob Beauchemin) (11/13/90)
Since this discussion seems to include programming toolkits... GfxBase of Milpitas, CA, has announced the availability of an XWindows Programmer's Toolkit for Amiga. This allows you to write XWindows programs that run under AmigaDOS (ie Unix is not a requirement). It includes support for Xlib and Xt (Athena widgets), and a BSD-like socket library. They also have available a rendition of the XView toolkit for Amiga. This is an XWindows toolkit that provides a Sunview-like API. The programs produced support the Open Look graphic user interface, one of the more popular platform-independant GUIs available. Also, Lattice(SAS) has a DBaseIII library avilable for the Amiga, which may be of interest, since AmigaVision supports DBase-type databases. Bob Beauchemin S&B Software, Inc 6503 SW 46th Place Portland OR, 97221 (503)-244-5029 bobb@agora.hf.intel.com
parker@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Jeff Parker) (11/13/90)
In article <1990Nov12.203622.15304@agora.uucp> bobb@agora.uucp (Bob Beauchemin) writes: > > Since this discussion seems to include programming toolkits... [mention of an X Window Toolkit available deleted] > > Also, Lattice(SAS) has a DBaseIII library avilable for the Amiga, which >may be of interest, since AmigaVision supports DBase-type databases. > Just this afternoon while perusing the offerings of a store going out of business, I saw another one of Lattice's offerings. A collection of routines that are MAC QuickDraw compatible! No thanks. >Bob Beauchemin Adios, Jeff P. Jeffrey D. Parker (no philosopher) | By all means marry; if you get a good wife, INET: parker@vela.acs.oakland.edu | you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, BITNET: PARKER@OAKLAND | you'll become a philosopher. Socrates (Or get an AMIGA - You'll be Happy!) -- Jeffrey D. Parker (no philosopher) | By all means marry; if you get a good wife, INET: parker@vela.acs.oakland.edu | you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, BITNET: PARKER@OAKLAND | you'll become a philosopher. Socrates UUCP: ...!umich!vela!amiga1!fanatic| (Or get an AMIGA - You'll be Happy!)
doug@eris.berkeley.edu (Doug Merritt) (11/13/90)
In article <15808@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >In article <35844@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >>And how could we forget MUDDL, the language in which ZORK was originally > >Because, like SNOBOL4, its obselete. You would use ADL (Adventure Design >Language) to write any new adventure, right? Ok, so you'd probably use some Is ADL really as powerful as MUDL? By comparing to Snobol, I assume that by "obsolete" you really mean "out of favor", rather than "surpassed by better designs". Snobol and MUDL were hardly the world's best general purpose languages, but they had some features that beat the snot out of more recent, more general, but less powerful (in those areas) languages, like C (and C++). ADL I dunno about. Doug P.S. And how could we forget MicroPlanner? :-) Doug Merritt doug@eris.berkeley.edu (ucbvax!eris!doug) or uunet.uu.net!crossck!dougm
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (11/13/90)
In article <90316.115305UH2@psuvm.psu.edu> UH2@psuvm.psu.edu (Lee Sailer) writes: >> You forgot SPITBOL, ML, Algol, FOCAL, and Euclid, Dave. ;-) > >>Randell, you forgot CLU, MIDAS, SIMPL, RPG, CAL, CART (an AI lang early 60's) >>and a buncha others I've used over the years. Gee, this is fun reminiscing! > >Yeah. It is. So, who remembers JOSS, ISIS, and LLLLL? Or, who would >want to? > > 8-) I was still hanging on by my fingernails as far as FOCAL and RPG, but that last list is a mystery; the only ISIS I've seen is CMU's. Anybody tried FORTRAN-II, or GOTRAN? (FOCAL was a fun language; I had a lunar lander running from punch paper tape in FOCAL once upon a time.) Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (11/14/90)
In article <1990Nov13.085955.4324@agate.berkeley.edu> doug@eris.berkeley.edu (Doug Merritt) writes: >In article <15808@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >>In article <35844@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >>>And how could we forget MUDDL, the language in which ZORK was originally >>Because, like SNOBOL4, its obselete. You would use ADL (Adventure Design >>Language) to write any new adventure, right? Ok, so you'd probably use some >Is ADL really as powerful as MUDL? For writing adventures, probably. >By comparing to Snobol, I assume that by "obsolete" you really mean "out of >favor", rather than "surpassed by better designs". No, I mean, "surpassed by better designs", at least in the context of Snobol4. Knowing Icon, I can't think of any reason to use Snobol4. Unless, perhaps, you had piles of Snobol4 code lying around. >like C (and C++). I certainly wasn't claiming that C or C++ would necessarily obselete Snobol4, though perhaps C++ with a robust enough pattern class could take a shot at it. C++ would be very hard pressed to duplicate Icon constructs like generators. > Doug Merritt doug@eris.berkeley.edu (ucbvax!eris!doug) -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (11/16/90)
In <EACHUS.90Nov15153531@aries.linus.mitre.org>, eachus@linus.mitre.org (Robert I. Eachus) writes: > As long as you have started reminiscencing about languages you >have known... > > At an Ada-9X Requirements workshop, someone referred to a >"one-letter" language at dinner. On the way back to the hotel we came >up with four such, and started to work on a list of the shortest >language names beginning with each letter of the alphabet. I'm not >going to post our list at this point let you people see how you do, >but the only letter we didn't have a language for was Y... :-) How about YACC? -larry -- The only things to survive a nuclear war will be cockroaches and IBM PCs. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
eachus@linus.mitre.org (Robert I. Eachus) (11/16/90)
As long as you have started reminiscencing about languages you
have known...
At an Ada-9X Requirements workshop, someone referred to a
"one-letter" language at dinner. On the way back to the hotel we came
up with four such, and started to work on a list of the shortest
language names beginning with each letter of the alphabet. I'm not
going to post our list at this point let you people see how you do,
but the only letter we didn't have a language for was Y... :-)
--
Robert I. Eachus
with STANDARD_DISCLAIMER;
use STANDARD_DISCLAIMER;
function MESSAGE (TEXT: in CLEVER_IDEAS) return BETTER_IDEAS is...farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) (11/16/90)
dix@clinet.fi (Risto Kaivola) writes: >There may be some compatibility problems with SAS (former >Lattice) C, but there is no way Lattice could match the >price/performance ratio offered by GCC. GCC comes free. Your price/performance ratio will zoom to infinity the first time a bug appears, or you need to do something which is just the other side of what the compiler will allow. Us Lattice/SAS folks, however, will just have to pick up the phone... GCC comes free. Support comes expensive. -- Mike Farren farren@well.sf.ca.us
ben@servalan.uucp (Ben Mesander) (11/17/90)
In article <21683@well.sf.ca.us> farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) writes: >dix@clinet.fi (Risto Kaivola) writes: >>There may be some compatibility problems with SAS (former >>Lattice) C, but there is no way Lattice could match the >>price/performance ratio offered by GCC. GCC comes free. > >Your price/performance ratio will zoom to infinity the first time a bug >appears, or you need to do something which is just the other side of what >the compiler will allow. Us Lattice/SAS folks, however, will just have >to pick up the phone... > >GCC comes free. Support comes expensive. GCC has proven itself reliable enough to be shipped as the standard C compiler on several major UNIX platforms. Obviously, doing stuff like __chip is impossible with GNU CC (mybe with atom, though?). However, I bought Lattice and now the SAS upgrade. I have yet to find a non-trivial program that the optimizer works on, I constantly hit compiler limits and bugs, I have had it spit up mysterious internal error messages that are not in the manual, I have repeatedly found bugs in the library routines, the code generation is only fair, and the library is inadequate for my needs. In short, if I called SAS whenever I had a problem with thier compiler or library, I'd be broke. On the other hand, GCC does not have the official 'support', but GNU does a pretty good job. GCC is hard on machine resources - it uses a lot of memory, and disk space. I understand it takes 3 megs of memory for it to be able to compile itself. It is slow on a 68000 Amiga. On the plus side, it generates excellent code, although I'm stuck with the Lattice/SAS library plus my own attempts at enlarging it and replacing buggy routines. I'll probably continue to do development with SAS, and compile the production code with GCC. GCC is a _much_better_ C compiler, although it is not Amiga-specific. I can't port a lot of UNIX code with SAS. Hopefully, the GCC port will become a bit more polished (better front end than the PDC hack) soon. They both have thier good and bad points, but you're wrong in many ways about SAS C. It's a poor compiler compared to GCC. Support for SAS is there, but it shouldn't need as much support as it does. I suspect that SAS has many more bugs left in it for me to find, and GCC has a lot fewer. >Mike Farren farren@well.sf.ca.us ben@epmooch.UUCP