coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) (11/05/90)
Are you tired of Amigas?, Commodore's lack of consideration for
their costumers? ... Read this and run out and get one ... one
NeXT system that is. 8^)
BTW, if you don't believe this message, check out postings in the
comp.sys.next newsgroup ...
I've already taken advantage of this promotion and I'm happy to say
that my Amiga/Commodore days have finally come to an end.
REST IN PEACE Commodore/Amiga ... Hee! Hee! Hee!!!!
------------
Felix A. Lugo
coco@ihlpb.att.com
OMN = Optical Drive
NMN = No Optical Drive
------------------------- Original message follows ---------------------------
Subj: HH - NeXT Price Auction
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Approved for Distribution)
That's right, we are really making it attractive for your customers to get
in on the NeXT wave of workstation price/performance with the new pricing on
our current inventory of 68030 based systems that makes it impossible for
them to want to wait:
- Better delivery - they are in stock
- A better alternative - Cubes for the the price of Stations!
- Better pricing - see below for comparisons
The Pricing
===========
Special
BL SKU Description BL Retail
------ ----------------- ---------
120-205054 CUBE3 8/40MB OMN (In-Box) $3995
CUBE3 8/40MB OMN (Demo) $2795
(21 in the field, 111 in the DC)
120-183319 CUBE3 8MB OMN (In-Box) $3995
CUBE3 8MB OMN (Demo) $2795
(212 in the field, 11 in the DC)
120-202481 CUBE3 8/40MB NMN (In-Box) $2995
CUBE3 8/40MB NMN (Demo) $2195
(29 in the field, 59 in DC)
120-205062 CUBE3 8/330MB OMN (Any cond.) $5295
(81 in the field, 2 in the DC)
[ some comparisons deleted]rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (11/05/90)
Ugg. I guess we should all put our Amiga's in the trash can now. No computer on earth could possibly stand up to the mighty NeXT. Only an idiot could would think the Amiga is a good computer. Maybe if Amigan's took an agress stance like this (like invading comp.sys.* news groups with blatant adds) the Amiga would sell better. If this article was a joke, I didn't get it. -- "NeXTs are useless... Mac's are irrelevent.. IBM's are futile. Amiga's,however, are quite nice!" -Capt Jeal-Luc Amiga | Flames to /dev/null Ray Cromwell rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu | // AMIGA! \\ "Your software will adapt to service ours!"| \X/ AMIGA! \X/
Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com (11/05/90)
Felix... have fun with what Next software there is! Thehehhehehehe... - Doug - Doug_B_Erdely@Cup.Portal.Com
ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu (Doug) (11/05/90)
coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: > Are you tired of Amigas?, Commodore's lack of consideration for > their costumers? ... Read this and run out and get one ... one > NeXT system that is. 8^) > BTW, if you don't believe this message, check out postings in the > comp.sys.next newsgroup ... > I've already taken advantage of this promotion and I'm happy to say > that my Amiga/Commodore days have finally come to an end. > REST IN PEACE Commodore/Amiga ... Hee! Hee! Hee!!!! This list is old news. I ordered my A3000 after I saw this list. Perhaps you should look into what system does what. PS. How much would you let your AMI go for ? *8) oSIGNATURE.signature: -- ---------------------------------//------------------------------------- Doug Dyer Clemson University // "Splunge!" - MP ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu \\ // -----------------------------\X/----------------------------------------
dean@coplex.UUCP (Dean Brooks) (11/06/90)
coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: > Are you tired of Amigas?, Commodore's lack of consideration for > their costumers? ... Read this and run out and get one ... one > NeXT system that is. 8^) What was it that the NeXT machine can do that an accelerated Amiga can't? Um..., er, ah yes, it will allow you to spend all your time looking for supported software... And hell, for about $10,000 (two NeXT machines), you too can have your very own voice mail link. Whoopee. -- dean@coplex.UUCP Dean A. Brooks Copper Electronics, Inc. Louisville, Ky UUCP: !uunet!coplex!dean
WHE46@ccvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (11/06/90)
In Message <35605@cup.portal.com> <Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com> writes: >Felix... have fun with what Next software there is! Thehehhehehehe... > > > - Doug - > >Doug_B_Erdely@Cup.Portal.Com Funny, but that is *EXACTLY* what quite a few IBM and MAC users said to me when I bought my Amiga 1000 back in 1986. "Have fun with what AMIGA software there is! Hehehehe". The fact is, there is far more solid, professional programs available for the NeXT now than there was for the Amiga two years after it was produced. -MB-
jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (11/06/90)
Felix Lugo, you are a real jerk. What possible reason is there for
your blatant baiting of Amiga users in the Amiga group w/ a message about
Next computers blasting away at amigas.
Do you just like flame mail or are you just a moron?
You or anybody else offended w/ my language may flame away, but you're still
an ass.
Jasonrjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (11/06/90)
Attention! Kill file alert! Marc Barrett is about to start another huge flame war of Amiga software vs Useless NeXT. If you want to be environmentally safe to the net, and not waste bandwidth, please add this topic into your kill file now. This has been a public service announcement from the foundation for anti-MB protection. -- "NeXTs are useless... Mac's are irrelevent.. IBM's are futile. Amiga's,however, are quite nice!" -Capt Jeal-Luc Amiga | Flames to /dev/null Ray Cromwell rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu | // AMIGA! \\ "Your software will adapt to service ours!"| \X/ AMIGA! \X/
coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) (11/06/90)
In article <1990Nov5.024552.15528@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: > Ugg. I guess we should all put our Amiga's in the trash can now. > No computer on earth could possibly stand up to the mighty > NeXT. Only an idiot could would think the Amiga is a good computer. > > Maybe if Amigan's took an agress stance like this (like > invading comp.sys.* news groups with blatant adds) the Amiga > would sell better. > > If this article was a joke, I didn't get it. > The article was no joke!! The NeXT prices are real (stop at any Businessland and ask them for a demo). > -- > "NeXTs are useless... Mac's are irrelevent.. IBM's are futile. Amiga's,however, > are quite nice!" -Capt Jeal-Luc Amiga | Flames to /dev/null > Ray Cromwell rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu | // AMIGA! \\ > "Your software will adapt to service ours!"| \X/ AMIGA! \X/ ___________________________ Felix A. Lugo coco@ihlpb.att.com
coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) (11/06/90)
In article <35605@cup.portal.com>, Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com writes: > Felix... have fun with what Next software there is! Thehehhehehehe... > > > - Doug - > > Doug_B_Erdely@Cup.Portal.Com I'm having a ball!!! I've never had so much bundled software that's actually better than anything I ever owned on the Amiga (except games of course!!!) More professional too! Show me Mathematica for the Amiga ... Oh! and I've got BSD 4.3 also! ____________________________ Felix A. Lugo coco@ihlpb.att.com
coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) (11/06/90)
In article <11386@hubcap.clemson.edu>, ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu (Doug) writes: > coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: > > > > Are you tired of Amigas?, Commodore's lack of consideration for > > their costumers? ... Read this and run out and get one ... one > > NeXT system that is. 8^) > > > BTW, if you don't believe this message, check out postings in the > > comp.sys.next newsgroup ... > > > I've already taken advantage of this promotion and I'm happy to say > > that my Amiga/Commodore days have finally come to an end. > > > REST IN PEACE Commodore/Amiga ... Hee! Hee! Hee!!!! > > This list is old news. I ordered my A3000 after I saw this list. Perhaps > you should look into what system does what. > > PS. How much would you let your AMI go for ? *8) > > oSIGNATURE.signature: > -- > ---------------------------------//------------------------------------- > Doug Dyer Clemson University // "Splunge!" - MP > ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu \\ // > -----------------------------\X/---------------------------------------- The list dates to 11/1/90 (not old news to me). Well if five (5) days is old news to you, then the Amiga 3000 news must be prehistoric news. Ha! _____________________ Felix A. Lugo coco@ihlpb.att.com
mmdf@ee.udel.edu (11/06/90)
On 5 Nov 90 18:38:51 GMT you said: > >In Message <35605@cup.portal.com> <Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com> writes: > > Funny, but that is *EXACTLY* what quite a few IBM and MAC users said >to me when I bought my Amiga 1000 back in 1986. "Have fun with what >AMIGA software there is! Hehehehe". The fact is, there is far more >solid, professional programs available for the NeXT now than there was >for the Amiga two years after it was produced. Most of that software is the original software that comes with the system too. There are VERY few packages that have come from third party support. The Amiga had no software because Commodore didn't release any with it. Amiga also has a proprietory OS. UNIX is a trying to be a standard now. There are more programs to be ported to the NeXT because of it's UNIX than people porting UNIX programs to AmigaDOS also. NeXT will have a software base eventually (if it can survive long enough to). Just what market is Jobs trying to hit with his NeXT anyway? I still haven't figured that one out. Until Jobs knows,I don't think anyone will even know enough about the system to make a difference. You ask a computer illiterate what an IBM is and they'll know. Ask them about a Mac, they should know. Ask about an Amiga and they MIGHT know. Ask about a NeXT and they'll say, "Huh? What's that?" You think Amiga has bad marketing, the NeXT is even worse. The people here on the net are the most knowledgeable people on the NeXT that I have EVER found (and that is only a handful). > -MB- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ======================================================================= ||NeXT- (nekst) N. The only PC to have sold less than 10,000 units and || || not be considered a flop. || ||------------------------------------------/ /------------------------|| ||---Brian Wright | / / || ||---s36666wb@etsuacad.etsu.edu | \ \/ / Only Amiga || ||---Commercial Artist and Amigaphile| \/\/ Makes It Possible!! || =======================================================================
cooper@milton.u.washington.edu (Kenneth Cooper) (11/06/90)
In article <1990Nov5.211447.17590@cbnewsl.att.com> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: > I'm having a ball!!! I've never had so much bundled software that's > actually better than anything I ever owned on the Amiga (except games > of course!!!) More professional too! Show me Mathematica for the > Amiga ... > > Oh! and I've got BSD 4.3 also! > >____________________________ > Felix A. Lugo > coco@ihlpb.att.com Great! Glad to hear it!! I suspect then that we won't have to put up with you much longer in this newsgroup. How much did you say you paid for your 3D ray trace package?....your color digitizer?....your multi-media package?....your 3.5" floppy disk?.... your Video Toaster?....your C source level debugger?.......... Ken Cooper cooper@milton.u.washington.edu
giao@informix.com (Giao Tien Vu) (11/06/90)
In article <1990Nov4.220612.21316@cbnewsl.att.com> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: ... > > I've already taken advantage of this promotion and I'm happy to say > that my Amiga/Commodore days have finally come to an end. > ... > >------------ > Felix A. Lugo > coco@ihlpb.att.com Really? Hope that you'd have a better time than some of my co-workers who are unlucky enough to get stuck with one. We used to be in love with those cute NeXT boxes, but after observing them crawl (even with HD!)... Sincerely, I do hope that the new NeXTs have the performance that matches the looks. Giao Disclaimer: The feelings expressed above are solely mine.
swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) (11/06/90)
In article <1990Nov5.212543.18289@cbnewsl.att.com> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: [...] > > This is what my NeXT can do: > > 1. Run UNIX out of the box (bet yours can't do that) > 2. Use Display PostScript for your screen output (know yours can't > do that) > 3. Ship with a bunch of supported "professional" programs (you wish > you could do that) > 4. I can have my very own voice mail link. Wheeeeee! > >_______________ > Felix A. Lugo > coco@ihlpb.att.com Wheeee! If I cared I would be reading comp.sys.next GOMF NeXT scum _. --Steve ._||__ DISCLAIMER: All opinions are my own. Warren v\ *| ---------------------------------------------- V {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM -- _. --Steve ._||__ DISCLAIMER: All opinions are my own. Warren v\ *| ---------------------------------------------- V {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM
MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (11/06/90)
In article <1990Nov5.212543.18289@cbnewsl.att.com>, coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) says: > >In article <212@coplex.UUCP>, dean@coplex.UUCP (Dean Brooks) writes: >> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: >> >> > Are you tired of Amigas?, Commodore's lack of consideration for >> > their costumers? ... Read this and run out and get one ... one >> > NeXT system that is. 8^) >> >> What was it that the NeXT machine can do that an accelerated Amiga can't? >> Um..., er, ah yes, it will allow you to spend all your time looking for >> supported software... And hell, for about $10,000 (two NeXT machines), you >> too can have your very own voice mail link. Whoopee. >> >> -- >> dean@coplex.UUCP Dean A. Brooks >> Copper Electronics, Inc. >> Louisville, Ky >> UUCP: !uunet!coplex!dean > > This is what my NeXT can do: > > 1. Run UNIX out of the box (bet yours can't do that) > 2. Use Display PostScript for your screen output (know yours can't > do that) > 3. Ship with a bunch of supported "professional" programs (you wish > you could do that) > 4. I can have my very own voice mail link. Wheeeeee! > >_______________ > Felix A. Lugo > coco@ihlpb.att.com 1. As soon as AT&T gets its act together, A3000UX's will be out in force. 2. Display PostScript is the best way to slow your system down to a crawl. As was once said -- "Only NeXT could make the 68030 run like a 68000..." 3. And the bundled software is the ONLY software you'll be seeing for the NeXT for quite a while. But once software is available (hmmm... installed base 10,000... could be a while) you'll have the privilege of paying about ten times what an Amiga owner would pay for the same quality stuff. 4. Who cares? Felix, me friend, you've been had. Well, have fun with your bundled software. "NeXT is Lisa spelled sideways." -- The Bandito /Mark "Remixed for Common Household Appliances" Sachs - MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu\ |DISCLAIMER? You've GOT to be kidding, right? || // AMIGA || | | "Haven't they heard we won the war? || \X/ Power || | \== "What do they keep on fighting for?" -- B. Joel, LENINGRAD =============/
Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com (11/06/90)
Marc Barrett claims there is more software for the next, than the Amiga had while it was 2 years old. One thing I do *KNOW* Mark... The Amiga sold a hell of a lot more Amigas in 2.5 years than the Next! They are up to what... 15000, maybe!? Hehehahah.. As for software... OK Marc... lets here about all the Commercial quality software you claim exists... we are waiting? - Doug - Doug_B_Erdely@Cup.Portal.Com
Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com (11/06/90)
Felix, I am happy for you. *I* dont need Unix, *I* also dont need mathematica. If your happy with your Next.. use it... and let us enjoy our Amiga. - Doug - Doug_B_Erdely@Cup.Portal.Com
Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com (11/06/90)
How many think we should write to the Postmaster of Marc's and his twin brother Felix's system and voice our dis-pleasure with their disruptions? - Doug - Doug_B_Erdely@Cup.Portal.Com
rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (11/06/90)
In article <1990Nov5.211447.17590@cbnewsl.att.com> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: >In article <35605@cup.portal.com>, Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com writes: >> Felix... have fun with what Next software there is! Thehehhehehehe... >> >> >> - Doug - >> >> Doug_B_Erdely@Cup.Portal.Com > > I'm having a ball!!! I've never had so much bundled software that's > actually better than anything I ever owned on the Amiga (except games > of course!!!) More professional too! Show me Mathematica for the > Amiga ... > > Oh! and I've got BSD 4.3 also! > >____________________________ > Felix A. Lugo > coco@ihlpb.att.com Good. Then have a ball with your NeXT and stop posting next advertisements in comp.sys.amiga. Show me Imagine, Video Toaster, Shadow of the Beast for your NeXT. I think I can have a lot more fun with my Amiga, and also be productive. If you like your NeXT, I'm happy for you, but don't expect the 1 milion Amiga owners to have the same tastes in computers as you. -- "NeXTs are useless... Mac's are irrelevent.. IBM's are futile. Amiga's,however, are quite nice!" -Capt Jeal-Luc Amiga | Flames to /dev/null Ray Cromwell rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu | // AMIGA! \\ "Your software will adapt to service ours!"| \X/ AMIGA! \X/
rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (11/06/90)
In article <1990Nov5.212543.18289@cbnewsl.att.com> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: >In article <212@coplex.UUCP>, dean@coplex.UUCP (Dean Brooks) writes: >> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: >> >> > Are you tired of Amigas?, Commodore's lack of consideration for >> > their costumers? ... Read this and run out and get one ... one >> > NeXT system that is. 8^) >> >> What was it that the NeXT machine can do that an accelerated Amiga can't? >> Um..., er, ah yes, it will allow you to spend all your time looking for >> supported software... And hell, for about $10,000 (two NeXT machines), you >> too can have your very own voice mail link. Whoopee. >> >> -- >> dean@coplex.UUCP Dean A. Brooks >> Copper Electronics, Inc. >> Louisville, Ky >> UUCP: !uunet!coplex!dean > > This is what my NeXT can do: > > 1. Run UNIX out of the box (bet yours can't do that) > 2. Use Display PostScript for your screen output (know yours can't > do that) > 3. Ship with a bunch of supported "professional" programs (you wish > you could do that) > 4. I can have my very own voice mail link. Wheeeeee! > >_______________ > Felix A. Lugo > coco@ihlpb.att.com I hereby apologize to MB. He's not the most obnoxius person on the net. Felix gets the award. Atleast Marc can argue intelligently. When I read this post. I get the impression of a kid fighting with another kid 'Nananana. My dad is better than yours.' 'Oh yeah, well my dad does this.' Big deal. The Amiga doesn't run Unix out of box. Does the NeXT run lastest version of ATT Unix? is it ABI compatible? Does it make french toast? Does the NeXT run AmigaDOS? Is its expansion bus as good as Zorro III? Oh, when is newtek going to port the video toaster to the NeXT? (h :-) ) -- "NeXTs are useless... Mac's are irrelevent.. IBM's are futile. Amiga's,however, are quite nice!" -Capt Jeal-Luc Amiga | Flames to /dev/null Ray Cromwell rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu | // AMIGA! \\ "Your software will adapt to service ours!"| \X/ AMIGA! \X/
kutem@motcid.UUCP (Jon Kutemeier) (11/07/90)
coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: [stuff deleted] > This is what my NeXT can do: > 1. Run UNIX out of the box (bet yours can't do that) ^^^^ Actually, you are not running UNIX, you are running Mach, a BSD 4.3 clone (one that has been hacked up by NeXT, if I might add). And they are not quite the same. I'm much more content to wait for System 5 Release 4, it will be much easier to port applications to than Mach. > 2. Use Display PostScript for your screen output (know yours can't > do that) Why do you think so many NeXT owners are so anxious for the '040 version? :-) Display PostScript, what a great way to make sure that NO CPU cycles are wasted! :-) > 3. Ship with a bunch of supported "professional" programs (you wish > you could do that) Oh, yes, I forgot about all of the "supported professional" programs, such as all of the GNU stuff. The only compiler that NeXT currently has is GCC, and they will not provide you any support on it. Since it is free, you're on your own. And it is a hacked up GCC at that! They have ANSIfied (is there such a word? :-) ) their include files as well as GCC, so there are some strange quirks when trying to port programs. I agree that it is nice to have all of those programs, but I will still take a supported product (such as Lattice or Aztec) over an unsupported program any day (especially when it is something I depend upon, like a compiler). This is not to say that some of the other included programs are not supported, just that not everything is supported. > 4. I can have my very own voice mail link. Wheeeeee! Isn't there a medical term for people who talk to themselves? :-) >_______________ > Felix A. Lugo > coco@ihlpb.att.com -- Jon Kutemeier___________________________________________________________________ ------------------Software Engineer /XX\/XX\ phone:(708) 632-5433 Motorola Inc. Radio Telephone Systems Group ///\XX/\\\ fax: (708) 632-4430 1501 W. Shure Drive, Arlington Heights, IL 60004 uucp: !uunet!motcid!kutemj
dcr3567@isc.rit.edu (D.C. Richardson ) (11/07/90)
> This is what my NeXT can do: > > 1. Run UNIX out of the box (bet yours can't do that) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > 2. Use Display PostScript for your screen output (know yours can't ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > do that) ^^^^^^^ > 3. Ship with a bunch of supported "professional" programs (you wish > you could do that) > 4. I can have my very own voice mail link. Wheeeeee! > >_______________ > Felix A. Lugo Are you sure you're not 12 years old, Felix? Tell me I'm wrong, but I used to have the same conversations when I FIRST entered the telecommunication world. That was 8 years ago. I realize I was acting like an asshole. Get the hint? -Dan -- Daniel C. Richardson Rochester Institute Of Technology / Mechanical Engineering Dept. "Immaturity Is The Essence Of Humanity. Children Shall Be Our Saviors" -Red's Dream
schweige@aldebaran.cs.nps.navy.mil (jeffrey schweiger) (11/07/90)
In article <1990Nov5.211447.17590@cbnewsl.att.com> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: > > I'm having a ball!!! I've never had so much bundled software that's > actually better than anything I ever owned on the Amiga (except games > of course!!!) More professional too! Show me Mathematica for the > Amiga ... > > Oh! and I've got BSD 4.3 also! > >____________________________ > Felix A. Lugo > coco@ihlpb.att.com Felix - I'm glad you like your machine. Different machines serve different purposes, and these 'my computer is better than your computer' flames get a bit tiring. However since this topic has been raised, and this is comp.sys.amiga and not comp.sys.next, a couple of thoughts: Commodore has shipped something like 200 times more Amigas than NeXT has shipped NeXT's. Sun ships more SPARCStations in one month than NeXT has shipped NeXT's in their entire history. The current generation NeXT (which I presume is what you purchased since the availability of the new machines is extremely limited and will be for some time) is basically a monochrome only machine, so comparing it to an Amiga doesn't make much sense. If this NeXT serves your purposes, you didn't need the Amiga for what are the Amiga's strong points. Regarding the new NeXT machines, since they are 68040-based and Motorola is not yet shipping production 68040's in any significant quantities (if at all), the machines are not much better than vapor-ware (since they can't be shipped in any quantity). -- ******************************************************************************* Jeff Schweiger Standard Disclaimer CompuServe: 74236,1645 Internet (Milnet): schweige@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil *******************************************************************************
schweige@aldebaran.cs.nps.navy.mil (jeffrey schweiger) (11/07/90)
In article <35646@cup.portal.com> Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com writes: >How many think we should write to the Postmaster of Marc's and his twin >brother Felix's system and voice our dis-pleasure with their >disruptions? > > - Doug - Sorry, Doug - I don't think the postings concerned add much of any value to comp.sys.amiga, but these postings are not illegal, nor do they violate what there is of what passes for standards of propriety on Usenet. As such, I don't think that contacting the postmasters of the sites is appropriate. The only thing that might accomplish is to aggravate them, since the posters involved are more than likely entitled to post what they have. Jeff Schweiger -- ******************************************************************************* Jeff Schweiger Standard Disclaimer CompuServe: 74236,1645 Internet (Milnet): schweige@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil *******************************************************************************
joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) (11/07/90)
rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: > In article <1990Nov5.211447.17590@cbnewsl.att.com> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (feli > >In article <35605@cup.portal.com>, Doug_B_Erdely@cup.portal.com writes: > >____________________________ > > Felix A. Lugo > > coco@ihlpb.att.com > If you like your NeXT, I'm happy for you, but don't expect the > 1 milion Amiga owners to have the same tastes in computers as you. ^ That should be 1.8 (or maybe 2 million by now). > > -- > "NeXTs are useless... Mac's are irrelevent.. IBM's are futile. Amiga's,howeve > are quite nice!" -Capt Jeal-Luc Amiga | Flames to /dev/null > Ray Cromwell rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu | // AMIGA! \\ > "Your software will adapt to service ours!"| \X/ AMIGA! \X/ -Joseph Hillenburg UUCP: ...iuvax!valnet!joseph ARPA: valnet!joseph@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu INET: joseph@valnet.UUCP
donb@bushido.uucp (Donald Burnett) (11/07/90)
As far as NeXT systems go. I just had the pleasure of installing a Moniterm full page display (A2024 clone) onto a friend's A3000 (yes she has 9MB RAM, and 100 MB HD). After seeing AmigaDOS 2.0 running on the 1000x800 display it occurs to me that those of us who have been using our machines on the standard color displays really haven't seen what our Amigas are capable of as a productivity machine. This 4 grey monitor with that resolution is incredibly fast (no you can't see the four panels updating now) and looks just wonderful. It really is a workstation class machine. The A2024 (the Moniterm's smaller and cheaper cousin) looks like a very good alternative for those interested in a quality productivity environment. The A2024 also works in all machines. This big screen and seeing the amount of software that already takes advantage of it has really changed the way I percieve this line of machines. -- ************************************************************************ ************** donb@bushido.uucp *********** ************** "My Opinions are my own, no one else's" *********** ************** Organizational Affiliation: *********** ************** CreativEdge Systems *********** ************** An Amiga Business Multimedia Developer *********** ************************************************************************
DEB110@psuvm.psu.edu (Doug Bischoff) (11/08/90)
It has occured to me that this Felix just hurt NeXT a bit: I am now
rather inclined to bash NeXTs to pieces and nit-pick them to death, because
this Felix fellow has totally alienated me, and I daresay a few more Amiga
users.
I just got an Amiga 3000 after comparing it to the new NeXTs. Had this
article come out before I bought, the choice would have been Amiga just
because NeXTs had been shoved in my face rather unpleasantly and I was no
longer impressed. Thanks Felix.
/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| -Doug Bischoff- | *** *** ====--\ | "It's so neat to |
| -DEB110 @ PSUVM- | * *** * ==|<>\___ | see an AMIGA say |
| -The Black Ring- | *** *** |______\ | "Welcome to |
| --- "Wheels" --- | *** O O | Macintosh"" |
| Corwyn Blakwolfe | T.R.I. ------------- | ---- AMIGA ---- |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------/es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (11/08/90)
In article <1990Nov5.212543.18289@cbnewsl.att.com> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: >In article <212@coplex.UUCP>, dean@coplex.UUCP (Dean Brooks) writes: >> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: >> >> > Are you tired of Amigas?, Commodore's lack of consideration for >> > their costumers? ... Read this and run out and get one ... one >> > NeXT system that is. 8^) >> I'll probably regret getting into this. I'm not going to argue most of the basic issues. I am going to go to one issue that know one usually mentions. NeXT can't be profitable EVER unless there is a miracle. There are appr. 10,000 NeXTs sold. There are appr. 2,000,000 Amigas sold. At the prices which they are selling new NeXTs for, which are very cheap, they can't be making much profit. Lotus and WordPerfect may be supporters now, but if there isn't a huge sales increase, and I mean dramatic, they'll drop off REAL fast. As NeXT loses more and more money, Steven Jobs will find monetary supporters disappearing and the corporate losses will be paid for entirely by himself. He may keep things up for a while, but not for that long. Oh, and one other thing: Display Postscript. YOU CAN KEEP IT. Unless you have a separate display chip the speed slowdown is too significant for my tastes. And oh yes, those BusinessLand models with the 68030, they are all discontinued. -- Ethan Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu GorbachevAwards++; free (SovietUnion); IndependentRepublics += 15;
mrush@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matt "C P." Rush) (11/08/90)
In article <5069@berry12.UUCP> kutem@motcid.UUCP (Jon Kutemeier) writes: >coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: > >[stuff deleted] > >Actually, you are not running UNIX, you are running Mach, a >BSD 4.3 clone (one that has been hacked up by NeXT, if I >might add). And they are not quite the same. I'm much more >content to wait for System 5 Release 4, it will be much >easier to port applications to than Mach. Just as a commentary, and not to support or bash the NeXT, but the NeXT here in our computer lab IS running BSD 4.x (I think 4.3, but I don't use the NeXT enough to care). Anyway, it is NOT running Mach, it IS running GENUINE BSD. Though it WAS running Mach when they first got it... -- Matt mrush@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (11/09/90)
In-Reply-To: message from rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu Me, give up my A3000-25/50 for a NeXT box of the same processor speed, but inferior system performance? A NeXT box that NeXT doesn't even make anymore (or at least not once the '040 machines are released)? This guy must be mad. Sean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .SIG v2.0 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc | B^) VISION GRAPHICS B^) ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com | Dual A3000 based, custom Help keep the | computer graphics, RealWorld: Sean Cunningham competition // | animation, presentation, Voice: (512) 992-2810 under \X/ | simulation, accident- | scene re-creation, and "Does anyone remember laughter?" Robert Plant| recreation...(whew!) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (11/09/90)
In-Reply-To: message from coco@cbnewsl.att.com So, Felix, how are you enjoying what Steve Jobs even said was slow, expensive, has little software support, and no color options? Sean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .SIG v2.0 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc | B^) VISION GRAPHICS B^) ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com | Dual A3000 based, custom Help keep the | computer graphics, RealWorld: Sean Cunningham competition // | animation, presentation, Voice: (512) 992-2810 under \X/ | simulation, accident- | scene re-creation, and "Does anyone remember laughter?" Robert Plant| recreation...(whew!) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (11/09/90)
In-Reply-To: message from coco@cbnewsl.att.com Felix...your machine doesn't run UNIX out of the box, it runs MACH. Although it's based on UNIX, you won't be able to take advantage of the greater UNIX software market because most other companies are going with Vr4, which all us poor Amiga users will be using once Amiga UNIX is out. Heh, we'll beat you on your own turf! Display PostScript...yeah, looks real nice but oh my, you've only got an '030...better go out to lunch while the screen redraws. Shipped with a bunch of professional software? I'll grant you that. But get used to it because that's about all you're going to be using for a while. Single user voice mail...that one might be handy if you've got a mouse in your pocket. Do you enjoy talking to yourself? Are you currently in therapy? Sean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .SIG v2.0 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc | B^) VISION GRAPHICS B^) ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com | Dual A3000 based, custom Help keep the | computer graphics, RealWorld: Sean Cunningham competition // | animation, presentation, Voice: (512) 992-2810 under \X/ | simulation, accident- | scene re-creation, and "Does anyone remember laughter?" Robert Plant| recreation...(whew!) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
kls30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L Shephard) (11/09/90)
In article <1990Nov7.192010.166@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <1990Nov5.212543.18289@cbnewsl.att.com> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: >>In article <212@coplex.UUCP>, dean@coplex.UUCP (Dean Brooks) writes: >>> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: >>> >>> > Are you tired of Amigas?, Commodore's lack of consideration for >>> > their costumers? ... Read this and run out and get one ... one >>> > NeXT system that is. 8^) >>> > I'll probably regret getting into this. I'm not going to >argue most of the basic issues. I am going to go to one issue >that know one usually mentions. NeXT can't be profitable EVER >unless there is a miracle. There are appr. 10,000 NeXTs sold. >There are appr. 2,000,000 Amigas sold. At the prices which they >are selling new NeXTs for, which are very cheap, they can't be >making much profit. Lotus and WordPerfect may be supporters now, >but if there isn't a huge sales increase, and I mean dramatic, >they'll drop off REAL fast. > As NeXT loses more and more money, Steven Jobs will find >monetary supporters disappearing and the corporate losses will be >paid for entirely by himself. He may keep things up for a while, >but not for that long. Remember Steve has the backing of Cannon (optical drives) and they feel it is a viable product. Steve is in the Forbes 400 and he can keep this up for a LONG while. I'm quite sure the claims that they have orders for 15,000 of the new machine are not bogus. 15,000 * $5000= 75,000,000. The $5000 price assumes he sells mostly low end machines w/no color. This figure is prob. low. I think he'll sell a lot of cubes with NeXTdiminsion boards. 80Mflops of performance is nothing to sneeze at. As a high end video engine NOTHING can touch NeXTdiminsion. A lot of people are jumping on the bandwagon, not jumping off, as far as developers go. Also remember the staff at NeXT is small. All assembly is robotic (no assemblers to pay) so he may be making a profit on machines. He uses highly integrated components, only 1 board in the whole machine. > > Oh, and one other thing: Display Postscript. YOU CAN KEEP >IT. Unless you have a separate display chip the speed slowdown is >too significant for my tastes. > So is X windows. But I have seen Display Postscript on a '040 NeXTstation and yes IT IS FAST. It is comprable to a Sparcstation 1/1+ in drawing a screen and movin windows is much better. We use Sparcs here where I work. > And oh yes, those BusinessLand models with the 68030, >they are all discontinued. > -- Ethan > They may be discontinued but they can be upgraded to a new '040 for less than $1500.00. So it is a deal!!!! >Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu Lighten up, every machine is not for everybody. Diff. machines for diff. needs. BTW I hates Macs --- no command line. Yes I like to get to a command line so I could live w/ an Amiga, NeXT (or any Unix machine). I like my 386 clone but my next purchase will be a NeXTstation. $3300.00 educational discount. > >GorbachevAwards++; >free (SovietUnion); >IndependentRepublics += 15; Kent. -- /* -The opinions expressed are my own, not my employers. */ /* For I can only express my own opinions. */ /* */ /* Kent L. Shephard : email - kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com */
sysop@tlvx.UUCP (SysOp) (11/11/90)
In article <9537@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>, bgribble@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Bill Gribble) writes: > In article <1990Nov5.211447.17590@cbnewsl.att.com> coco@cbnewsl.att.com (felix.a.lugo) writes: .... > > I'm having a ball!!! I've never had so much bundled software that's > > actually better than anything I ever owned on the Amiga (except games > > of course!!!) More professional too! Show me Mathematica for the > > Amiga ... But as many people have pointed out, there is Maple... I dunno, maybe they are very different programs, but you can hardly condemn a platform based on one program, anyway. .... > > Felix A. Lugo > ** Bill Gribble Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA ** ... Felix, Marc Barrett: Many if not most Amiga users have no use for UNIX; in fact, for average people, UNIX is far to bulky. (After having first-hand experience with a UNIX system, I would rather not have to help other people deal with system problems. So, in my professional environment at work, I would rather do customer support for MS-DOS than UNIX, although I prefer UNIX at home.) So, in short, I think that while some people get very excited about UNIX, it seems silly to me to suggest (as the original article did) that Amiga will suffer from any UNIX platform -- they are 2 different things. The Amiga UNIX could be considered a different machine, from this perspective (since with the UNIX OS, it is a different machine, unable to run AmigaDOS programs). I hope this doesn't sound like a flame. Of course, it still contains my opinion, but I have, I hope, posted something of interest to someone. -------------------------------- I also wanted to know if there is an FTP site which has MIDI scores? I am not too picky, but would like some nifty things to play around with Music-X. Would some scores intended for other computers/programs work as well? (Music-X supports some sort of standard MIDI file format.) If not FTP, how about a BBS? A long time ago I had contacted a company that sold MIDI scores to popular music. This sounded like a neat idea, one that I may try in the future. (They used MANY tracks to approach the original. 4 tracks, like some DMCS scores I've seen, just don't cut it.) -- Gary Wolfe, SYSOP of the Temporal Vortex BBS // Amiga! ..uflorida!unf7!tlvx!sysop, unf7!tlvx!sysop@bikini.cis.ufl.edu \X/ Yeah!
mitroo@python.cis.ohio-state.edu (varun mitroo) (11/14/90)
I would like to make a few general comments about the amiga and some other computers. These are my opinions and beliefs after years of using computers. First the Amiga: The Amiga is a GREAT computer. I have had one for over two years, and I have been very happy with it overall. It has a really interesting environment, and there are a lot of neat programs for it (DeluxePaint is still one of the best, I feel!) Multitasking is great, and I like the general idea behind it - to have a good computer with nice graphics at a reasonable price. The biggest problems with it are the ugly Workbench (2.0 is MUCH better, but - as one of my 'casual computer user' friends said - "the screen looks squashed") and the general unreliability of the computer - the GURU, cheap quality, shoddy workmanship. The Macintosh: Overall an inferior computer. Has nothing going for it hardware wise, but makes up for it (more than makes up for it, in some cases) with software. It is priced way too high for what you get. However, Apple has sold quite a few of them, and in some ways, they really are good at 'just getting the job done without becoming a computer nerd'. Plus there is lots of third party support for the mac, and one can make up for the bland hardware with MONEY. I greatly despise Apple Computer. They are selling mediocre hardware at outrageous prices, and preying upon the average american's ignorance of computers in making a buck. Their TV ads and advertising give this impression too - but it's paying off - EVERYBODY knows about 'macs'. They had one of the stupidest ads in the June '90 Personal Workstation magazine - "The power to be your best, no matter what you do best." - which talks about the "point-and- click simplicity" giving the Macintosh some mysterious power over other computers. By the way, they should spend some of that advertising money into researching grammar. I counted 16 paragraphs in a one page ad, many of them one sentence or fragments. For example: "Only a Macintosh gives you so much power to do so many things so quickly and so easily." Apple would be much better off actually making innovations rather than suing everybody in order to stay in the market. (By the way, I used to own an Apple II.) IBM and pc clones: The closest thing to a generic computer. Generally are pretty good at getting productive work done. The amount of software is enormous, and a lot of it is excellent. You can get good quality, fast, and cheap clones that are perfect at certain places in business. IBM is following the lead of Apple - making proprietary hardware and trying to sell pathetic systems to the buyer that doesn't know any better (the PS/1 computer). Since they have nothing that they can license to other companies (and generally rip them off), they have invented "Micro Channel Architecture" which is just a plain 32 bit bus with really nothing special. I HOPE THEY BURN ON THIS. Computers should be open and free to all, each company building upon previous work to advance the general computing world. Companies and individuals should be entitled to rewards for their work, but not for something that is not an improvement, just a rehash of current technology repackaged into a different standard. Somebody else said before on the net said that IBM is not a visionary company. I think that explains it pretty well. NeXT: This is a very good computer. The old NeXT cubes were overpriced and underpowered (everybody knows this), but the new ones are something else! Everybody who was arguing about Amigas or NeXTs being better, get this: They are two very different computers for very different tasks. There is no competition hardware-wise. 1a. The Amiga has 16 bit NMOS custom chips for graphics and 8 bit sound. Good, but very outdated. The wait states to access chip ram are unbelievable. b. The NeXT has the DSP chip that is full 32 bit and performs at 10 MIPS - much faster than even the 68030 at some things. 2a. With DMA, amiga hard drives can achieve transfer rates of 1 MB/sec b. The NeXT has 9 DMA channels that have a bandwidth of 40 MB/sec. Transfer rates of their hard drives is 1.6 MB SUSTAINED going up to 4 or even 8 MB/sec. 3a. Amiga graphics are currently anchored by the custom chips and compatibility. Remarkable what Commodore has done with the ECS considering what they had to work with. b. The NeXT was designed with a large high-resolution screen in mind. With hardware prices dropping, they are jumping to the cutting-edge of graphics. 4a. The Amiga comes with a cheap plastic keyboard, and dependability and quality of systems is generally low. (1950 monitor problems, disk clicking, chips becoming unseated, mouse failing, cheap power supply (on the 500), etc.) b. The NeXT has extremely high quality equipment. Everything about the system shows - EXCELLENT keyboard, good mouse, heavy metal enclosures for their computers (problems with the optical disk, though). Don't get me wrong, I think Amigas are really fun and are good to use. There ARE some things that can only be done on an amiga. I just saw a videotape of some of the projects of students taking a graphics class working with Sculpt-4D, and I was pretty impressed with the work that was done. There was no way that this could have been done on an IBM, mac, or NeXT - at least not for anywhere near the cost. At the same time, there is a lot of work going on with graphics on other computers (sun, pixar, etc.) that is on a much different level than the amiga. Seeing both the amiga and the other graphics computers made me realize something - each computer has its own place. For its price, the amiga is very good at animation and video. For professional work or research there is no reason to use an amiga - the resolution and color is too low. The future of the Amiga is pretty good. With all the new video boards (like the Toaster), the amiga will get entrenched as a video machine. AmigaVision and other multi-media programs capitalize on the amiga's strengths. Lots of better quality software available (TAD). However, forget it for seeing the Amiga in a business environment or as being used as a workstation. It's a different kind of computer. Sorry for this being such a long post. I really had to get a lot of things off my chest. By the way, I am an officer of the campus amiga user group, and I just bought a NeXT Cube from Businessland (too bad that guy was raving about the NeXT recently and getting people defensive - they really are nice computers). Varun Mitroo mitroo@cis.ohio-state.edu
david@twg.com (David S. Herron) (11/20/90)
Too bad this wasn't posted to comp.sys.all ... it woulda been fun to watch the bloodbath from the sidelines ... Especially given all the innacuracies. Nothing makes a better flame war than watching allthese people from all over the world correcting each other & noticing thatmost of them're *wrong*.. -- <- David Herron, an MMDF & WIN/MHS guy, <david@twg.com> <- Formerly: David Herron -- NonResident E-Mail Hack <david@ms.uky.edu> <- <- Use the force Wes!
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (11/21/90)
In article <85929@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> varun mitroo <mitroo@cis.ohio-state.edu> writes: >NeXT: .... > 1a. The Amiga has 16 bit NMOS custom chips for graphics and 8 bit sound. > Good, but very outdated. The wait states to access chip ram are > unbelievable. Right. They range from 0 wait states on up. > b. The NeXT has the DSP chip that is full 32 bit and performs at > 10 MIPS - much faster than even the 68030 at some things. The MC56001 in the NeXT is a 24 bit device, not a 32 bit device. It has a limited addressing range (not much of an issue anyway in the NeXT cube, since it has a fixed 24K chunk of memory). This device processes fixed point 24 bit numbers, not floating point, so while its certainly useful for sound processing, it doesn't do you much good with other jobs. > 2a. With DMA, amiga hard drives can achieve transfer rates of 1 MB/sec > b. The NeXT has 9 DMA channels that have a bandwidth of 40 MB/sec. > Transfer rates of their hard drives is 1.6 MB SUSTAINED going up to > 4 or even 8 MB/sec. The NeXTs don't run 8MB/sec sustained, simply because SCSI doesn't, either. The last set of hard disk (eg, not the 256K floptical, a real hard disk) benchmarks I ran into on the NeXT cube (either in UNIX Review or Personal Workstation, can't recall offhand) had real system performance peaking at about 450K bytes/second. You're taking the actual measured (in one case, it does go faster) performance of some Amiga above, and comparing it to some theoretical and rather questionably quoted specifications. You'd be good a writing add copy, but not fair reviews. The Amiga 3000's hard disk DMA controller transfers data at 20MB/s, which is the same speed the NeXT's bus runs at, as I recall (execpt for burst transfers, which, like in the A3000, go faster). Since standard asynchronous SCSI doesn't go much beyond 1.5MB/s, peak, the disk benchmarks don't, either. There are faster hard disks around, but neither C= nor NeXT is shipping them as standard equipment. The limit is the hard drives, and Amigas can use the same kind of drives as the NeXTs, Macs, Suns, and other SCSI based systems. > b. The NeXT has extremely high quality equipment. Everything about > the system shows - EXCELLENT keyboard, good mouse, heavy metal > enclosures for their computers (problems with the optical disk, > though). Of course, you have to wait and see what their cheap systems are going to be like. The original NeXT was a $10,000 machine. Our $10,000 Suns and Apollos had nicer keyboards than our el-cheapo versions of the same, too. > Varun Mitroo -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM