jeremym@brahms.udel.edu (Jeremy A Moskowitz) (11/12/90)
Alirght, alright... people have been talking
about the two types of Amiga 2000 machines....
There's the A2000 and the B2000. As far as I know...
The only difference is that teh B2000 was made in California
and the A2000 was the German model which was most accepted..
1) Is this true??
2) What incompatabilities are there between the machines?
3) What do the jumpers on the B2000 vs. the A2000 do?
4) Why do I like howard stern so much
5) <Question 4 is optional>
6) Will the fatter agnus work in the B2000?
(if anyone cares, I have a B2000 rev 4.2)
7) Would somone be willing to list all the revisions
of the A2000 vs. B2000 up to 4.2? or beyond?
8) what's the latest version? etc etc etc...
9) What's the deal with the B2000's keyboards SUCKING
the first character on a cold/warm boot? Apparantly,
there's a fix of a resistor cut in the keyboard housing...
but, I'm not going in there until somone tells me how to do
it...
The unanswered questions of the Universe Lie Above...
C'mon amigians....
E Pluribus// Contact me if you wish for whatever reason:
*UNIX* // Pri: jeremy@freezer.it.udel.edu Second: jeremym@brahms.udel.edu
\\ // Lastly, if neither of those work : jeremy@vax1.udel.edu
\X/ ---> Know what I hate most? Rhetorical questions. <----daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (11/13/90)
In article <15706@brahms.udel.edu> jeremym@brahms.udel.edu (Jeremy A Moskowitz) writes: >Alirght, alright... people have been talking >about the two types of Amiga 2000 machines.... >There's the A2000 and the B2000. As far as I know... >The only difference is that teh B2000 was made in California >and the A2000 was the German model which was most accepted.. It's a little more meaningful, if you're interested in accuracy, to say A2000a and A2000b. The former was designed in Germany, based on the A1000 motherboard design, and the latter was designed in the USA (West Chester, PA, not California) based on the A500 motherboard design. They are actually both called "A2000"; "A2000" vs. "B2000" was an internal designation within engineering. >2) What incompatabilities are there between the machines? The main difference is that the A2000b adds an extended Video Slot, Monochrome video output, and an extended Coprocessor Slot. An A2000a (which, by the way, never shipped in the USA) can't use a flickerFixer, and for use with a Coprocessor Slot board like the A2630, the 68000 must be removed. >3) What do the jumpers on the B2000 vs. the A2000 do? The A2000b jumpers are basically a superset of the A2000a jumpers. There are three added to support the ECS Agnus changes, one for choice of LINE vs. VSYNC as the 60HZ Tick signal, one to choose between A1000 and A500 standard for the light pen mouse port, and one to remove an extra wait state added for DMA to Chip memory from the expansion bus (this was necessary because the Fat Agnus and Gary combination didn't quite meed the published specs. for DMA into Chip RAM). >4) Why do I like howard stern so much Because getting up before 10:30 or so is hell, and you haven't discovered drugs or liquor yet.... >6) Will the fatter agnus work in the B2000? There is no fatter agnus. However, the 1 Meg ECS Agnus, 8732A, will work in the A2000b. >7) Would somone be willing to list all the revisions >of the A2000 vs. B2000 up to 4.2? or beyond? No >9) What's the deal with the B2000's keyboards SUCKING >the first character on a cold/warm boot? Apparantly, >there's a fix of a resistor cut in the keyboard housing... >but, I'm not going in there until somone tells me how to do it... In the production runs of earlier A2000bs, the keyboard was changed. The newer keyboard was adversely affected by some capacitors put on the keyboard lines to quiet down the older and noisier keyboard that had been used. If you have C911 and C912 removed from near the keyboard connector, everything should be hunky dorey. > *UNIX* // Pri: jeremy@freezer.it.udel.edu Second: jeremym@brahms.udel.edu -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM
hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) (11/13/90)
In article <15706@brahms.udel.edu> jeremym@brahms.udel.edu (Jeremy A Moskowitz) writes: >Alirght, alright... people have been talking >about the two types of Amiga 2000 machines.... >There's the A2000 and the B2000. As far as I know... >The only difference is that teh B2000 was made in California >and the A2000 was the German model which was most accepted.. > >1) Is this true?? >2) What incompatabilities are there between the machines? >3) What do the jumpers on the B2000 vs. the A2000 do? >4) Why do I like howard stern so much >5) <Question 4 is optional> >6) Will the fatter agnus work in the B2000? > (if anyone cares, I have a B2000 rev 4.2) > >7) Would somone be willing to list all the revisions >of the A2000 vs. B2000 up to 4.2? or beyond? >8) what's the latest version? etc etc etc... >9) What's the deal with the B2000's keyboards SUCKING >the first character on a cold/warm boot? Apparantly, >there's a fix of a resistor cut in the keyboard housing... >but, I'm not going in there until somone tells me how to do >it... > > >The unanswered questions of the Universe Lie Above... >C'mon amigians.... > > >E Pluribus// Contact me if you wish for whatever reason: > *UNIX* // Pri: jeremy@freezer.it.udel.edu Second: jeremym@brahms.udel.edu > \\ // Lastly, if neither of those work : jeremy@vax1.udel.edu > \X/ ---> Know what I hate most? Rhetorical questions. <---- The A2000 is the general term for the Commodore Amiga 2000 (TM) of which there are two different "versions". Version 1 was the original German design which just put the A1000 in a box with some slots and only sold a thousand or so machines back in 1987. The other version is the US designed version called the B2000 (look on the lefthand corner of your motherboard and you will see "B2000CR" if your machine is the B2000) which has the autoconfiged expansion slots and the full video slot and the fatter Agnus chip. This machine has sold 100s of thousands and is still being sold all over the world. Most people call this just the A2000 and they are referring to the general usage of this term but by the shear number of version 2 machines out in the world they end up referring to the "B2000CR" machine. As for revisions maybe Dave Haynie or George Robbins could go over this. Scott Hood -- -- Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!"
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (11/14/90)
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >The main difference is that the A2000b adds an extended Video Slot, Monochrome ^^^^^^^^^^ >video output, [Warning! Warning! The following message might sound like it's from -MB-, but I am seriously curious to find out the reasoning behind why Monochrome video was placed in 500's and 2000's] That's something that always bugged me about the Amiga 500 and 2000's. Why monochrome video out? It's nearly totally useless. CBM should have either kept it color like in the A1000, or dropped it altogether and said, "go buy a A520 (I think that's the right part number?) Video adaptor, It's only $40". Or just throw the durn thing in free. Or better yet, make the video out color and just raise the price of the 500 and 2000 by $15. I think the B&W video out does more damage to the Amiga's reputation than help. A few years ago, there was a package deal where if you bought an Amiga 500, you got a cheap VCR free. But you did not get a genlock with it, or the A520,(did it even come with a monitor?) It was supposed to be a way to promote the Amiga as a video machine. It came with Zuma TV Fonts, I believe. But can you imagine how disapointed the buyers were to find out that they could only record in Black & White? I bet that did wonders for Amiga's reputation. If it had at least color video out, it would have been pretty useful. -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
ps3@ph3hp840.physik.uni-stuttgart.de (ps-Gruppe) (11/15/90)
In article <15706@brahms.udel.edu> jeremym@brahms.udel.edu (Jeremy A Moskowitz) writes: >Alirght, alright... people have been talking >about the two types of Amiga 2000 machines.... >There's the A2000 and the B2000. As far as I know... >The only difference is that teh B2000 was made in California >and the A2000 was the German model which was most accepted.. Once upon a time there was a Amiga 1000 and a sidecar. And Commodore said 'We should put the sidecar inside the Computer'. And so Commodore in Braunschweig (Germany) has built the A2000 and the XT-Card. The A2000 is quite similar to the A1000, they just added the slots and 512 kB Ram instead of 256 kB. So they managed to produce a Amiga with a XT inside in a short time. Later Commodore developed the B2000, which has several differences in Hardware: - It has 1MB Ram on board. - The Video-Slot was extended - The keyboard sometimes have problems with the first sign you type in. This problem can be solved by removing a condensator. Furthermore some versions of the AT-Emulator (the software -- not the AT-Board) do not run with the B2000, if the wrong version of keyboard is used. - The B2000 is prepared to use 1MB Chip-Mem. You just need the new Agnus, some jumpers and a knife to interrupt a connection. So - that's all I can remember, but there may be some more differences! Regards Thomas Stuempfig ============================================================================== Thomas Stuempfig | ocac@ds0rus1i.bitnet Pikosekunden-Labor | ocac@rusvm1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de 3. Physikalisches Institut |================================================ Uni Stuttgart | ps3@ph3hp840.physik.uni-stuttgart.de ==============================================================================
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (11/21/90)
In article <328@rusux1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> ps3@ph3hp840.physik.uni-stuttgart.de (ps-Gruppe) writes: >Once upon a time there was a Amiga 1000 and a sidecar. And Commodore said >'We should put the sidecar inside the Computer'. And so Commodore in >Braunschweig (Germany) has built the A2000 and the XT-Card. The A2000 is >quite similar to the A1000, they just added the slots and 512 kB Ram >instead of 256 kB. So they managed to produce a Amiga with a XT inside >in a short time. That's basically the right idea. What's called the A2000b, or B2000, or (our official original name) the A2000-CR, was originally a started as a cost reduction of the German design. The A2000a was based on the A1000 chips; thin Agnus and lots of PALs and buffers, coupled with a backplane based on the original backplane specifications done in Los Gatos. The A2000b borrowed instead from the A500 design, with Fat Agnus. I designed the thin Buster chip to replace the PAL logic used for the backplane and to add the "Coprocessor interface" that made possible the A2500 bundled systems. >Later Commodore developed the B2000, which has several differences in Hardware: >- The keyboard sometimes have problems with the first sign you type in. This > problem can be solved by removing a condensator. Furthermore some versions > of the AT-Emulator (the software -- not the AT-Board) do not run with the > B2000, if the wrong version of keyboard is used. The real problem, of which you see two symptoms here, was based on the fact that there were two different keyboard designs. The original, which used a rather large design based on some buffer chips and an Intel CPU, is responsible for the problems with some software. It is very close to the limit of the published keyboard specifications, and some programs that drive the keyboard directly, rather than go through the input.device or Intuition or whatever, ignored the specs. That's a problem with this keyboard on the A2000a or A2000b, or for that matter the A1000 if you hooked one of these keyboards up to the A1000 via an adaptor cable. This keyboard can be identified by the smaller function keys -- they're the same size as the "Esc" key. All A2000as and a few A2000bs shipped with this keyboard. We switched over to the newer one, which was internally based on a MOS 6500/1 like the A1000 keyboard, soon after the A2000b was in production. This keyboard's function keys are the size of the "Alt" keys. The "miss the first character" problem is based on some drive differences between the two keyboards. The original keyboard had big buffer chips, which made it electrically noisy. To solve this noise problem, A2000bs were outfitted with an extra set of bypass capacitors at the keyboard connector. When the new keyboard came along, these caps were a bit too much for it, only it took some time before anyone noticed there was a missing character problem. Eliminating the additional caps, restoring the original design, solves the problem. >Thomas Stuempfig | ocac@ds0rus1i.bitnet -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM
borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Boerge Noest) (11/23/90)
In article <16011@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >The real problem, of which you see two symptoms here, was based on the fact >that there were two different keyboard designs. The original, which used [...text...] >up to the A1000 via an adaptor cable. This keyboard can be identified by the >smaller function keys -- they're the same size as the "Esc" key. All A2000as >and a few A2000bs shipped with this keyboard. We switched over to the newer This is the one I have (rev 4.1 , which I believe should have been a reseller demo-unit only) >size of the "Alt" keys. The "miss the first character" problem is based on >some drive differences between the two keyboards. The original keyboard had [...] >the keyboard connector. When the new keyboard came along, these caps were a >bit too much for it, only it took some time before anyone noticed there was >a missing character problem. Eliminating the additional caps, restoring the >original design, solves the problem. My "problem" is that MY KEYBOARD WORKS OK NEARLY 100% OF THE TIME! I'm puzzled by this, as I'm supposed to always miss the first character. It only happens once in a while when I try to break the startup-sequence(and I haven't put in any fancy stuff to fix it). There is a number of games that break with my keyboard though(Ocean and Dinamic(sp?) especially). Can anyone inform me why this is so, or perhaps you have a test program for the keyboard that could cast some light on this(to see how it behaves compared to a "new" keyboard). >Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" -- _____________________________________________________________________________ |/// borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Borge Nost) \\\| |// ...and then there was AMIGA... \\| |/ studying at the worlds northernmost university \|