giguere@csg.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Giguere) (11/24/90)
In article <2642@kirk.nmg.bu.oz> cameron@kirk.nmg.bu.oz (Cameron Stevenson) writes: >Not wanting to put a dampener on this discussion, but surely Unix/X is the >emerging OS/GUI multi-platform choice. Think about it. On many of the >machines out there, there is a Unix/X option - even if it is not the native >combination. For this reason, I think Commodore have done it just right (by >offering a choice that conforms to this multi-platform "standard") I got into this discussion on BIX, so I might as well repeat this here: it's my opinion that Unix and/or X Windows is not a viable platform for a single user environment. Given the choice between Exec/AmigaDOS/Intuition and Unix/X Windows, I would certainly choose the former! Unix and X Windows work, but only because (a) they were designed for multi-user environments, (b) they work on fairly high-powered machines, and (c) they have full-time support staff. Now (a) doesn't mean that a single user can't use the machine, and (b) doesn't necessarily apply anymore since the distinction between high-end personal computers and workstations is blurring. But what about (c)? No one who uses Unix can actually realize how much work and how many arcane incantations you have to go through to administer a Unix system. Imagine this, if you will: 1. Joe Shmoe goes to his local dealer and buys a Unix box. The Unix is pre-installed so he doesn't have that headache to worry about. 2. Joe Shmoe sets up his Unix box and makes himself an account. If the system is user-friendly then there's a shell program to do this, otherwise he has to edit the /etc/passwd file by hand (and probably has to learn "vi" to do this --- disincentive enough!) and do all the magic stuff. 3. Joe Shmoe now wants to connect his modem and printer to the new machine. The manuals are probably useless in this case, so he phones up his dealer, etc. etc. Really, I think there's a problem here. Of course, setting up X Windows is non-trivial if it doesn't come preinstalled as well. And we haven't even mentioned networking/UUCP. And in many situations I think that the multi-user philosophy gets in the way when the machine is really just being used by one person. Also, don't forget that X Windows is such a resource hog that you'll need lots of memory and/or swap space. In short, I think that for single users there will always be an AmigaDOS/ Microsoft Windows type of option. Certainly for the low end of the market. -- Eric Giguere giguere@csg.UWaterloo.CA Quoth the raven: "Eat my shorts!" --- Poe & Groening
mcr@Latour.Sandelman.Ocug.On.Ca (Michael Richardson) (11/25/90)
In article <1990Nov23.160840.10973@maytag.waterloo.edu> giguere@csg.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Giguere) writes: >In article <2642@kirk.nmg.bu.oz> cameron@kirk.nmg.bu.oz (Cameron Stevenson) writes: >>Not wanting to put a dampener on this discussion, but surely Unix/X is the >user environment. Given the choice between Exec/AmigaDOS/Intuition and >Unix/X Windows, I would certainly choose the former! Yes, but one thing X windows get you is the ability to run across a network. I'm sorry to say that a Sun 3/60 has quite nearly supplanted my 2000 as my main system, and I've only had it a week. My intention however, is to run X windows on the Amiga w/ethernet connection to the Sun. >Unix and X Windows work, but only because (a) they were designed for multi-user >environments, (b) they work on fairly high-powered machines, and (c) they have 3000s are more powerfull than 3/60s, and 3/60s do QUITE nicely for most stuff. (But running a 1180x900 screen can take a lot of power out of any system. Agnus gives the 3000 an obvious advantage.) >full-time support staff. Now (a) doesn't mean that a single user can't use On this one you are right. However, the SVR3.2 admin scripts are quite nice, (except when they do the wrong thing, or something that isn't exactly documented). I expect the SVR4 stuff to even nicer. >No one who uses Unix can actually realize how much work and how many arcane >incantations you have to go through to administer a Unix system. Imagine Since my primary source of income is administering Unix systems, I must protest somewhat: day-to-day admin is really just bothersome, not difficult. Once the system is set up, things go quite nicely. The trick, of course, is setting up. AmigaDOS isn't that easy to set up from scratch either, although I'm told that the 2091 hd stuff, and the addition of rigidblocks makes things a snap. I don't know. I have 2090. > 1. Joe Shmoe goes to his local dealer and buys a Unix box. The Unix > is pre-installed so he doesn't have that headache to worry about. Well, if Joe Shmoe's dealer managed to do the install, then Joe Shmoe's dealer is probably far more competent than most. He should have no further problems. >Really, I think there's a problem here. Of course, setting up X Windows >is non-trivial if it doesn't come preinstalled as well. And we haven't >even mentioned networking/UUCP. The average user doesn't have the disk space to compile X windows. It would have to come pre-installed. Networking and UUCP are never easy, on any system. (Easier under Unix than AmigaDOS for sure!) >And in many situations I think that the multi-user philosophy gets in >the way when the machine is really just being used by one person. I disagree really. Multi-userness can always be turned off, either by running everything as root, or not setting any passwords. Appropriate use of group permissions, etc.. and things go very nicely. >Also, don't forget that X Windows is such a resource hog that you'll need >lots of memory and/or swap space. X Windows under Unix is. Unix is not real time, and therefore really shouldn't be doing real time things like people. ("People are real time events too!") -- :!mcr!: | The postmaster never | So much mail, Michael Richardson | resolves twice. | so few cycles. mcr@julie.UUCP/michael@fts1.UUCP/mcr@doe.carleton.ca -- Domain address - Pay attention only to _MY_ opinions. - registration in progress.