micja@IDA.LiU.SE (Michael Jansson) (11/16/90)
THE QUESTION: IS THERE NO APPLICATIONS THAT SUPPORTS THE CLIPBOARD (PROPERLY)???? I am in the process of writing an application that will use the Clipboard device (the device that lets you cut some text/picture/data in one application and move to another application where you paste it in). I read the RKRM: Libs&Devs and learned that workbench applications should at least use clip-data that is text or image (FTXT or ILBM IFF-chunks) and that they should handle the case that the clip-data may consist of several representations of the data (a CAT IFF-chunk named CLIP). I started to write my application with this specification and was able to cut&paste data within my application. Then I tried to cut&paste data to other applications. I started with Notepad (remember? the hoplessly slow pseudo editor that supports proportional fonts ;-). Guess what: It disliked the data in the clipboard and started to meditate. The clip-data consisted of text, image and my personal data type. I removed everything but the text and tried again and it worked very well. (Conclusions? ;-( I tried the tool 'snap' (written by M.Karlsson) and discovered a similar phenomena (and managed to talk Micke into handling the clips better ;-). I failed to find other applications that uses the clipboard. My conclusions are that I am either the only one that uses the clipboard the way the manual specifies it or that there is a missprint in my manual. I would really appreciate if you you would let me know of any applications that do support the clipboard. Thanks in advance! -- ########################################################## # Michael Jansson | \_/ # Internet: mij@IDA.LIU.SE | V _|_ # UUCP: uunet!liuida!mij | | Absolut Software| # BITNET: mij@SELIUIDA | ~~~
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (11/17/90)
In <1990Nov16.100909.29735@ida.liu.se>, micja@IDA.LiU.SE (Michael Jansson) writes: >THE QUESTION: > > IS THERE NO APPLICATIONS THAT SUPPORTS THE CLIPBOARD (PROPERLY)???? Not many, if any at all. > >I am in the process of writing an application that will use the Clipboard >device (the device that lets you cut some text/picture/data in one >application and move to another application where you paste it in). I >read the RKRM: Libs&Devs and learned that workbench applications should at >least use clip-data that is text or image (FTXT or ILBM IFF-chunks) and >that they should handle the case that the clip-data may consist of several >representations of the data (a CAT IFF-chunk named CLIP). In my opinion, the seeming insistence on IFF data format has severely limited the number of people who are willing to use the clipboard. Without an IFF library to call upon, or without a series of systems calls to handle it, who is going to bother with writing their own IFF parsers into each program just in case someone else writes one into theirs? >I started to write my application with this specification and was able to >cut&paste data within my application. Then I tried to cut&paste data to >other applications. I started with Notepad (remember? the hoplessly slow >pseudo editor that supports proportional fonts ;-). Guess what: It >disliked the data in the clipboard and started to meditate. Not overly surprising... there is a fairly long history of IFF parsers that do not handle IFF files well. >I failed to find other applications that uses the clipboard. Perhaps we will see more use of the clipboard now that 2.x has an iffparse.library. Would be nice. -larry -- The only things to survive a nuclear war will be cockroaches and IBM PCs. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
rblewitt@sdcc6.ucsd.edu (Richard Blewitt) (11/17/90)
In article <1990Nov16.100909.29735@ida.liu.se> micja@IDA.LiU.SE (Michael Jansson) writes: > >THE QUESTION: > > IS THERE NO APPLICATIONS THAT SUPPORTS THE CLIPBOARD (PROPERLY)???? > > I don't know if it does it properly (no basis for judgment) but Excelence! 2.0 claims to support it. Rick Blewitt rblewitt@ucsd.edu
bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson) (11/17/90)
In article <1990Nov16.100909.29735@ida.liu.se> micja@IDA.LiU.SE (Michael Jansson) writes: > >THE QUESTION: > > IS THERE NO APPLICATIONS THAT SUPPORTS THE CLIPBOARD (PROPERLY)???? > > [...] > >I failed to find other applications that uses the clipboard. > >My conclusions are that I am either the only one that uses the clipboard >the way the manual specifies it or that there is a missprint in my manual. > >I would really appreciate if you you would let me know of any applications >that do support the clipboard. Thanks in advance! The very nice (!) text editor, QED, from my fellow employee, Darren Greenwald, supports the clipboard well and it supports it properly. Yes, this is a blatant plug for an alternative editor but hey, he deserves it after all the work :) It also has a very complete Arexx command set and an Arexx "learn mode". bj ># Michael Jansson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Brian Jackson Software Engineer, Commodore-Amiga Inc. GEnie: B.J. | | bj@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com or ...{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!bj | | "My beer comes from farther away than your beer." | -----------------------------------------------------------------------
micja@IDA.LiU.SE (Michael Jansson) (11/19/90)
In article <2235@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >In <1990Nov16.100909.29735@ida.liu.se>, micja@IDA.LiU.SE (Michael Jansson) writes: >>THE QUESTION: >> >> IS THERE NO APPLICATIONS THAT SUPPORTS THE CLIPBOARD (PROPERLY)???? > >Not many, if any at all. That is what I suspect (big sigh!:-). A lot of people have replied on my original query and have given me names of applications that do use the clipboard. They are not many and they all cut&paste text (No image pasting: big sigh again ;-). I might post a list of them later (Interesting for other people that are working/testing applications that uses the clipboard!?). >In my opinion, the seeming insistence on IFF data format has severely limited >the number of people who are willing to use the clipboard. Yes, and it has to be that so that applications has a common 'language'. I can not see how it could have done otherwise, given that the format of the clip-data must be generic, i.e. usable for many different kinds of data. It is a bit hard to handle IFF-files even if you do have an iff-library. Its one of those bad-but-necessary-things. Right!? >Without an IFF >library to call upon, or without a series of systems calls to handle it, >who is going to bother with writing their own IFF parsers into each program >just in case someone else writes one into theirs? >Perhaps we will see more use of the clipboard now that 2.x has an >iffparse.library. Would be nice. Lets hope so!! > >-larry -- ########################################################## # Michael Jansson | \_/ # Internet: mij@IDA.LIU.SE | V _|_ # UUCP: uunet!liuida!mij | | Absolut Software| # BITNET: mij@SELIUIDA | ~~~
huebner@aero.aero.org (Robert E. Huebner) (11/20/90)
In article <1990Nov16.100909.29735@ida.liu.se>, micja@IDA.LiU.SE (Michael Jansson) writes: |> |> THE QUESTION: |> |> IS THERE NO APPLICATIONS THAT SUPPORTS THE CLIPBOARD (PROPERLY)???? |> Not nearly enough, as a previous poster has stated. I have used the clipboard with the programs in the Gold Disk Office Series (CALC and GRAPH specifically). An article entitled something like "Using the Amiga in a small business" appeared in the December issue of Amiga World. The author pays particular attention to mentioning which programs support the Clipboard. I think the Clipboard is of great benefit, especially in a multitasking environment and I hope more developers start supporting it with the advent of 2.0. For now, I will use the information from the article to plan my future purchases. ---- Robert Huebner huebner@aerospace.aero.org The Aerospace Corporation
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (11/20/90)
In <1990Nov19.114706.6762@ida.liu.se>, micja@IDA.LiU.SE (Michael Jansson) writes: >In article <2235@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >>In my opinion, the seeming insistence on IFF data format has severely limited >>the number of people who are willing to use the clipboard. >Yes, and it has to be that so that applications has a common 'language'. >I can not see how it could have done otherwise, given that the format of >the clip-data must be generic, i.e. usable for many different kinds of >data. It is a bit hard to handle IFF-files even if you do have an >iff-library. Its one of those bad-but-necessary-things. Right!? Well, how's this for starters.... allow (I know it's _allowed_, but more like condone), IFF and ASCII both. ASCII is reasonably easy to differentiate from IFF, since readable text-only data could only conform to the IFF format by an extremely unlikely set of data. Barring differentiation by content alone, perhaps a suggestion of using a single value at the beginning to specify IFF or ASCII would have done it. I feel that given encouragement to include ASCII as an acceptable format for clip data, _many_ folks would have gone for it in their programs. With the clipboard in comon use, pressure on the programmers to utilize IFF for sound, graphics, and text containing special attributes would have come from the user community. But... it may be too late for this. More's the pity. -larry -- The only things to survive a nuclear war will be cockroaches and IBM PCs. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
jerry@truevision.com (Jerry Thompson) (11/20/90)
>In <1990Nov16.100909.29735@ida.liu.se>, micja@IDA.LiU.SE (Michael Jansson) writes: >>THE QUESTION: >> IS THERE NO APPLICATIONS THAT SUPPORTS THE CLIPBOARD (PROPERLY)???? >Not many, if any at all. >Perhaps we will see more use of the clipboard now that 2.x has an >iffparse.library. Would be nice. > >-larry I agree. This is one of the things about Amiga software that always kinda bugged me. Between multitasking and Snap, you can get by without clipboard support in applications, but... it would be nice. Maybe this should be our next "pester the programmers" campaign to get them to put in the support for the clipboard. Right after they add the Arexx port. ;^) -- Jerry Thompson | // checks ___________ | "I'm into S&M, "What I want to know is, have | \\ // and | | | | Sarcasm and you ever seen Claude Rains?" | \X/ balances /_\ | /_\ | Mass Sarcasm."
vic@wookie.wpd.sgi.com (Victor Mitnick) (11/20/90)
Platinum Works uses the clipboard, although I can't say to what extent, or whether it does it "correctly." -- Vic Mitnick Silicon Graphics, Inc. vic@sgi.com System Software Division (415)335-1372 "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." -- Sigmund Freud.
ridder@elvira.enet.dec.com (Hans Ridder) (11/21/90)
In article <2250@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >Barring differentiation by content alone, perhaps a suggestion of using >a single value at the beginning to specify IFF or ASCII would have done >it. Has anyone ever noticed the mention of the TEXT form type (or was that a chunk type) in the IFF '85 spec? It's just a sentence or two, and it seems to be saying that you can just put regular ASCII text in it. This could be much easier than a full blown FTXT parser. Grab your RKM's and take a look. How about it? >-larry -hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hans-Gabriel Ridder Digital Equipment Corporation ridder@elvira.enet.dec.com Customer Support Center ...decwrl!elvira.enet!ridder Colorado Springs, CO
micja@IDA.LiU.SE (Michael Jansson) (11/21/90)
In article <2250@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >I feel that given encouragement to include ASCII as an acceptable format for >clip data, _many_ folks would have gone for it in their programs. With the >clipboard in comon use, pressure on the programmers to utilize IFF for sound, >graphics, and text containing special attributes would have come from the user >community. > >But... it may be too late for this. More's the pity. > >-larry Well, I am not quite sure that would have made much change. Clipping pure text (no font-stuff etc) is not really that hard right now. It can be done in the following lines of code (give or take a few lines ;-) sprintf(data,"FORMxxxxFTXTCHRSxxxx%s",text); ((long *)data)[1] = strlen(text)+8; ((long *)data)[4] = strlen(text); DoIO(clipreq); It is even more easy to read such data. The really hard part is to handle complex data such as pictures etc. There is definitely a need for a iffparse.library to handle that. - Michael -- ########################################################## # Michael Jansson | \_/ # Internet: mij@IDA.LIU.SE | V _|_ # UUCP: uunet!liuida!mij | | Absolut Software| # BITNET: mij@SELIUIDA | ~~~
darren@cbmvax.commodore.com (Darren Greenwald) (11/21/90)
In article <2250@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: >In <1990Nov19.114706.6762@ida.liu.se>, micja@IDA.LiU.SE (Michael Jansson) writes: >>In article <2235@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes: > >>>In my opinion, the seeming insistence on IFF data format has severely limited > >>Yes, and it has to be that so that applications has a common 'language'. > >Well, how's this for starters.... allow (I know it's _allowed_, but more like >condone), IFF and ASCII both. ASCII is reasonably easy to differentiate from >IFF, since readable text-only data could only conform to the IFF format by an >extremely unlikely set of data. Barring differentiation by content alone, > Hey, Murphy's law remember :grin: > >But... it may be too late for this. More's the pity. > >-larry > As you noted, its not allowed - the clipboard.device is IFF smart, and uses the info passed in to determine how much memory its going to need; a pure ASCII format is currently not possible. Maybe what we need is tools to make reading/writing of IFF easier (we do have iffparse now). We may also want to consider a new type of IFF file - call it DATA or something which means the next X number of characters is just data of no particular type. IFF TEXT has some limits on what you can put in it, which means its not really suitable for text editors which allow you to edit binary sequences (and many Amiga text editors do). -------------------------------------------------------------- Darren M. Greenwald | Commodore-Amiga Software Engineering | USENET: uunet!cbmvax!darren -------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "It would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common frame of reference." - Spock
skank@iastate.edu (Skank George L) (11/22/90)
You can cut and paste text (and text only) between console windows on the
A3000, I think the A3000 manual "Using the System Sofware" (or whatever)
says that it uses the Clipboard to do this.
--Georgeperry@madnix.UUCP (Perry Kivolowitz) (11/25/90)
In article <14268@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> rblewitt@sdcc6.ucsd.edu (Richard Blewitt) writes: >In article <1990Nov16.100909.29735@ida.liu.se> micja@IDA.LiU.SE (Michael Jansson) writes: >> >>THE QUESTION: >> >> IS THERE NO APPLICATIONS THAT SUPPORTS THE CLIPBOARD (PROPERLY)???? >> >> We added support for the clipboard device in CygnusEd Professional in Release 2 with a program called CB2RX (ClipBoard To Rexx). By doing it this way, any program which speaks Rexx can access the clipboard. By the way, the clip board device hasn't really worked until WB2.0. Under all previous operating systems it would lose 536 bytes each time it was written to, and then closed. pk -- Perry Kivolowitz, ASDG Inc. ``We look for things. Things that make us go.'' UUCP: {harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!perry CIS: 76004,1765 PLINK: pk-asdg