cr1@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Anubis) (11/19/90)
Hi....Anyone know anything about Citadel BBS for the Amiga? Where I can get source code? Utilities available? Things like that? -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=That is not dead which may eternal lie-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= * Christoper Roth * "Machines have no * InterNet : cr1@beach.cis.ufl.edu * Conscience..." =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Yet with strange eons even death may die-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
v092mgp5@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott K Wood) (11/20/90)
In article <25506@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>, cr1@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Anubis) writes... > > >Hi....Anyone know anything about Citadel BBS for the Amiga? Where I can >get source code? Utilities available? Things like that? > The BBS software, utilities, and complete docs are available for FTP at abcfd20.larc.nasa.gov (128.155.23.64) in the /incoming/amiga/Swamp/citadelbbs directory. I don't think you can get the source code from anyone but the author. Scott BITNET : v092mgp5@ubvms.bitnet INTERNET : v092mgp5@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
nop@mcs-server.gac.edu (Jay Carlson) (11/21/90)
In article <46998@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> v092mgp5@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott K Wood) writes: > In article <25506@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>, cr1@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Anubis) writes... >> Hi....Anyone know anything about Citadel BBS for the Amiga? Where I can >> get source code? Utilities available? Things like that? > The BBS software, utilities, and complete docs are available for > FTP at abcfd20.larc.nasa.gov (128.155.23.64) in the > /incoming/amiga/Swamp/citadelbbs directory. I don't think you can get > the source code from anyone but the author. That package is Citadel-68k, a terribly direct port from the MS-DOS BBS Citadel-86. The policy of the author of Cit-86 has been no public access to source code. While I can somewhat understand his reasons for keeping the public away from source, his decision has meant a lack of competition and progress for Cit-86 and its derivitive Cit-68k. Cit-68k has huge performance problems due to unbuffered output to the console---on the Amiga, character-by-character output is highly CPU intensive. Many parts of Cit-68k show gross inattention to CPU usage; it is impossible to use other applications while the BBS is up. Several times, I have shown simple mods that would ease the Amiga port's performance problem to the Cit-68k team; they rejected them without consideration. This is not the sign of a project responsive to its users. A related system, Stadel, was originally ported to the Atari ST from free sources. Its author, Eric Parsons, added quite a few features to it, and ported it to the PC. In many ways, Stadel is superior to Cit-86, but the most important advantage is source code. Eric got out of the development business around eight months ago and placed the sources to Stadel 3.4a in the public domain. A few other BBS systems are built on top of Stadel code, and there is an active developer's community. I've completed a port of 3.4a to the Amiga with mods to improve multitasking performance drastically. It uses the cclib.library to cut disk and memory usage. The arp.library is used for utility functions and program launching. The system is workable as is, but I would feel bad releasing source code without another rewrite. For example, the code is Manx-dependent right now. I would prefer to isolate Amiga and Manx dependencies so that the code can be built with freely available tools on the Amiga, PC, or the ST. Unfortunately, lightning took out my modem and my serial port, so I have no way of testing certain new changes. If anyone is interested in running the beta binary, or getting what source code I have, please contact me. Amiga mods would be distributed under the GNU Public License for now; the cleaned-up 3.4a source code itself, of course, remains in the public domain. > Scott > BITNET : v092mgp5@ubvms.bitnet > INTERNET : v092mgp5@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu -- // Jay Carlson \X/ nop@gac.edu "Excuse me--I'm just trying to find the _bridge_. Has anybody seen the bridge?"
carpent@SRC.Honeywell.COM (Todd Carpenter) (11/21/90)
In article <NOP.90Nov20165857@mcs-server.gac.edu> nop@mcs-server.gac.edu (Jay Carlson) writes:
Jay> That package is Citadel-68k, a terribly direct port from the MS-DOS BBS
Jay> Citadel-86.
Jay> The policy of the author of Cit-86 has been no public access to source
Jay> code. While I can somewhat understand his reasons for keeping the
Jay> public away from source, his decision has meant a lack of competition
Jay> and progress for Cit-86 and its derivitive Cit-68k. Cit-68k has huge
Jay> performance problems due to unbuffered output to the console---on the
Jay> Amiga, character-by-character output is highly CPU intensive. Many
Jay> parts of Cit-68k show gross inattention to CPU usage; it is impossible
Jay> to use other applications while the BBS is up.
Bull. Perhaps you have not used the latest 3.31b release of Citadel. I always
have that running on my 2500/30, and I have *never* had performance problems
with my ray tracing, text editing, or any other tool I wish to multitask. The
latest release *did* speed up console output by a huge amount, so perhaps your
gripe is valid for earlier releases. And of course, I DO know how to use that
nice feature of the Amiga, called "priority," which allows me to dump the
Citadel to a lower priority so even if it wants to interefere, it doesn't. :)
Jay> Several times, I have shown simple mods that would ease the Amiga
Jay> port's performance problem to the Cit-68k team; they rejected them
Jay> without consideration. This is not the sign of a project responsive
Jay> to its users.
Because the author is busier than #@$%, doesn't own an Amiga, and has to drive
a good distance to get access to one.
GEEZ!! THIS ISN'T EVEN SHAREWARE!!! Get a Life! Rude gripes like this are
most annoying. You make it sound as if he owes you something. And I have had
quite a bit of success with my Citadel.
Jay> STadel
no comment, or experience with that.
Todd P. Carpenter Honeywell Systems and Research Center
voice: (612)782-7229 3660 Technology Drive, Minneapolis, MN 55418-1006
domain: carpent@src.honeywell.com or Arkon%kryl@src.honeywell.com
bang-style: <any-smart-host>!srcsip!carpent Citadel: US 612 699 3106 (Kryl)
User Manual, p34, line 5: I am not authorized to have any opinions.ccc@anomaly.sbs.com (Cole Calistra) (11/24/90)
carpent@SRC.Honeywell.COM (Todd Carpenter) writes: >In article <NOP.90Nov20165857@mcs-server.gac.edu> (Jay Carlson) writes: >Jay> That package is Citadel-68k, a terribly direct port from the MS-DOS BBS >Jay> Citadel-86. >Jay> The policy of the author of Cit-86 has been no public access to source >Jay> code. While I can somewhat understand his reasons for keeping the >Jay> public away from source, his decision has meant a lack of competition >Jay> and progress for Cit-86 and its derivitive Cit-68k. Cit-68k has huge >Jay> performance problems due to unbuffered output to the console---on the >Jay> Amiga, character-by-character output is highly CPU intensive. Many >Jay> parts of Cit-68k show gross inattention to CPU usage; it is impossible >Jay> to use other applications while the BBS is up. >Bull. Perhaps you have not used the latest 3.31b release of Citadel. I always >have that running on my 2500/30, and I have *never* had performance problems >with my ray tracing, text editing, or any other tool I wish to multitask. The >latest release *did* speed up console output by a huge amount, so perhaps your >gripe is valid for earlier releases. And of course, I DO know how to use that >nice feature of the Amiga, called "priority," which allows me to dump the >Citadel to a lower priority so even if it wants to interefere, it doesn't. :) There you go. No performance problems on an 030. That must mean that it runs fine on an unaccelerated machine, right? WRONG. It was VERY slow when I ran it. The only reason there isn't acess to the source is because of myself and David Wright. We set out to make some changes, back when the source WAS released. We made the message headers on separate lines, like most normal BBS software, (if you've seen Cit, you know what I am talking about, the from, to, date, and network info are all on one line) we also started enabling sections of the code that he had disabled so that he could later come out with another "new" version that had these features that were always present, just disabled, we worked on improving the throughput with new serial IO routines, and new console IO routines, we added numerous features to the software. BUT the author, Jay something or other, didn't like us improving the software. He organized support on the Citadel net to ban our versions of the software. Eventually we gave up on our program, AmiDel, because of STadel-Ami was supposed to be released by Eric Griff, but he never released anything besides beta copies and those eventually fell off. (BTW. STadel was written by Jeff Parsons, not Eric Parsons) Therefore when the newer versions of Citadel started coming out for the Amiga, no source code was released, so we couldn't put in our new features. (We wanted our program to be developed concurrently with Citadel-68K so that they would remain compatible for networking purposes) >Jay> Several times, I have shown simple mods that would ease the Amiga >Jay> port's performance problem to the Cit-68k team; they rejected them >Jay> without consideration. This is not the sign of a project responsive >Jay> to its users. >Because the author is busier than #@$%, doesn't own an Amiga, and has to drive >a good distance to get access to one. The author, at least when I was using Citadel, did own an Amiga, he ran an Amiga BBS off of it. I do not know much about the current situation of Citdel today, but I think it is pretty ridiculous NOT to release the source code if you aren't going to be able to support your own program. I also have to agree with Jay, the Citadel users, mainly in Minnesota, are very arrogant and un- responsive to change! >Todd P. Carpenter Honeywell Systems and Research Center >voice: (612)782-7229 3660 Technology Drive, Minneapolis, MN 55418-1006 >domain: carpent@src.honeywell.com or Arkon%kryl@src.honeywell.com >bang-style: <any-smart-host>!srcsip!carpent Citadel: US 612 699 3106 (Kryl) >User Manual, p34, line 5: I am not authorized to have any opinions. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Cole Calistra UUCP: ...rayssd!anomaly!ccc Omni Development Systems INTERNET: ccc@anomaly.sbs.com "We thought it was a neat idea at the time.", Lt. Col. Oliver North =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
cr1@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Anubis) (11/26/90)
Well, Used Citadel for about a 2 weeks and although I love many things about it I just can't use it. There are too many things that need to be changed and there are too many little 'quirks'. The speed is great on my machine, but I'm useing a 25mhz A3000. It runs smooth as silk. This brings me to a big question: IS there currently a room-based bbs system for the Amiga OTHER then Citadel? I've looked at Tag...Didn't like it. I've looked at Metro...Couldn't get it to run. I've looked at something called LINKBBS, and didn't like that either. What's left? I'm not going to have to WRITE my own bbs software to get something to my liking, am I? It doesn't even have to be room based necessarily... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=That is not dead which may eternal lie-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= * Christoper Roth * "Machines have no * InterNet : cr1@beach.cis.ufl.edu * Conscience..." =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Yet with strange eons even death may die-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=