boily@phy.ulaval.ca (Edouard Boily) (11/23/90)
Hi, Just a short question about AmigaVision! Does someone know what exactly the file 'AV_Text.English' contains? Is it the texts used by AV fot the Helps, the menus, the requesters, etc...? If yes, do you know how to create one? I'd like to create one in french... The manual does not say much about it. It would be nice to have access to the format used for this file. Thank you, - Edouard .---------------------------------------------------------. | boily@phy.ulaval.ca 1150055@LAVALVX1.bitnet | |---------------------------------------------------------| | Edouard Boily | Projects: AmiGraph, AmigIRAF, A.I.R.P. | | Physic's Dept. | Interests: Astronomy, Comp. Sciences | | Laval Univ. | Work: On my Ph. D. _ // | | Quebec, CANADA | Citation: Not yet! \X/ | `---------------------------------------------------------'
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (11/24/90)
In article <37065@nigel.ee.udel.edu> boily@phy.ulaval.ca (Edouard Boily) writes: > > Just a short question about AmigaVision! Does someone know >what exactly the file 'AV_Text.English' contains? Is it the texts >used by AV fot the Helps, the menus, the requesters, etc...? If yes, >do you know how to create one? I'd like to create one in french... Your guess is right, but the file is in a compiled form, so you can't patch it easily as long as you don't provide the exact same lenghts of all entries. But as you also might guess: There are already efforts on the way to really translate this thing into the needed languages, also into French. So be patient and wait for the wonderful things to come. But it will still take some considerable amount of time, because you not only have to translate those few text strings, but the program itself must also get adapted to longer gadget texts and all such peculiarities. "We work on it." -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
karl@cbmvax.commodore.com (Karl Herrman - CATS) (11/27/90)
In article <37065@nigel.ee.udel.edu> boily@phy.ulaval.ca (Edouard Boily) writes: > > Hi, > > Just a short question about AmigaVision! Does someone know >what exactly the file 'AV_Text.English' contains? Is it the texts >used by AV fot the Helps, the menus, the requesters, etc...? If yes, >do you know how to create one? I'd like to create one in french... > > The manual does not say much about it. It would be nice to >have access to the format used for this file. > > Thank you, The file does contain the text files for all the requestors, Error messages, etc The original file was created with a text editor and encrypted. We are already working on a French translation of AmigaVision amoung other languages. The manual was written before this feature was added. This change was made to make it easier to translate AmigaVision for other languages. > > > - Edouard >.---------------------------------------------------------. >| boily@phy.ulaval.ca 1150055@LAVALVX1.bitnet | >|---------------------------------------------------------| >| Edouard Boily | Projects: AmiGraph, AmigIRAF, A.I.R.P. | >| Physic's Dept. | Interests: Astronomy, Comp. Sciences | >| Laval Univ. | Work: On my Ph. D. _ // | >| Quebec, CANADA | Citation: Not yet! \X/ | >`---------------------------------------------------------' Karl Herrmann C.A.T.S. Software Specialist
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (11/27/90)
karl@cbmvax.commodore.com (Karl Herrman - CATS) writes: > boily@phy.ulaval.ca (Edouard Boily) writes: >> Hi, >> Just a short question about AmigaVision! Does someone know >>what exactly the file 'AV_Text.English' contains? Is it the texts >>used by AV fot the Helps, the menus, the requesters, etc...? If yes, >>do you know how to create one? I'd like to create one in french... >> The manual does not say much about it. It would be nice to >>have access to the format used for this file. >> Thank you, > The file does contain the text files for all the requestors, Error > messages, etc The original file was created with a text editor and > encrypted. We are already working on a French translation of ^^^^^^^^^ > AmigaVision amoung other languages. > The manual was written before this feature was added. This change was > made to make it easier to translate AmigaVision for other languages. > Karl Herrmann C.A.T.S. Software Specialist Is there someone at Commodore particularly in charge of making this kind of decisions to antagonize the user base? Last I heard, there are some 3000 different human languages. Don't you think you might be limiting your market just the teensiest bit by making distribution to these other language groups wait until you folks get around to finding someone who knows each language to do the translation for you? As opposed, say, to putting the file out in well documented, easy to modify form, and letting the vast knowledge of the user base be brought to bear to get the port done in 1/10 the time and cost to Commodore, thereby boosting your sales and hastening the return on your software development investment. Some of the thinking that comes out of CBM just staggers an intellect used to common sense. /// It's Amiga /// for me: why Kent, the man from xanth. \\\/// settle for <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> \XX/ anything less? -- Convener, ongoing comp.sys.amiga grand reorganization.
etxtomp@eos.ericsson.se (Tommy Petersson) (11/27/90)
In article <1990Nov27.020432.11108@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: -karl@cbmvax.commodore.com (Karl Herrman - CATS) writes: -> boily@phy.ulaval.ca (Edouard Boily) writes: - (*Trimmed down articles*) ->> Just a short question about AmigaVision! Does someone know ->>what exactly the file 'AV_Text.English' contains? Is it the texts ->>used by AV fot the Helps, the menus, the requesters, etc...? If yes, ->>do you know how to create one? I'd like to create one in french... - -> The file does contain the text files for all the requestors, Error -> messages, etc The original file was created with a text editor and -> encrypted. We are already working on a French translation of - ^^^^^^^^^ - -> Karl Herrmann C.A.T.S. Software Specialist - -Is there someone at Commodore particularly in charge of making this kind -of decisions to antagonize the user base? - -Last I heard, there are some 3000 different human languages. Don't you -think you might be limiting your market just the teensiest bit by making -distribution to these other language groups wait until you folks get -around to finding someone who knows each language to do the translation -for you? - -As opposed, say, to putting the file out in well documented, easy to -modify form, and letting the vast knowledge of the user base be brought to -bear to get the port done in 1/10 the time and cost to Commodore, thereby -boosting your sales and hastening the return on your software development -investment. - Since Amiga doesn't have Resources and Resource Editors like Macint*sh, it's not that simple. The programs must be able to handle the added length of text strings in wordy languages like German "Videoapparaturkontrollengeraet" (this is by no means correct German, but Yoy get my idea). English is a very efficient language if You want to express something in not so many characters, and still have it understandable. I made a very simple resource system for a Un*x program. The program was first made in English (Scottish accent), and then translated into German, Swedish and later (I think) French. Most sentences were longer than the original English versions. Perhaps AmigaDos 3.01 should include resources and resource editors? (I hope the editors will be better than the first versions we got for MacInt*sh, they were horrible). The only really negative aspect I see in resources is that the executables grow (at least in the Mac way), but the benefits are not so small. Tommy P.
manes@vger.nsu.edu (11/27/90)
In article <1990Nov27.020432.11108@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>, xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: > karl@cbmvax.commodore.com (Karl Herrman - CATS) writes: >> boily@phy.ulaval.ca (Edouard Boily) writes: > > [Description of AV_Text Purpose deleted] > > Is there someone at Commodore particularly in charge of making this kind > of decisions to antagonize the user base? IMSATT Corp. does AmigaVision programming for Commodore. I assume that they have been tagged with this responsibility, however that might not be the case. > > Last I heard, there are some 3000 different human languages. Don't you > think you might be limiting your market just the teensiest bit by making > distribution to these other language groups wait until you folks get > around to finding someone who knows each language to do the translation > for you? I suspect of those 3000 languages only the languages that Commodore has a market in would be supported. I believe that would limited to around 10-15 languages (if that). > > As opposed, say, to putting the file out in well documented, easy to > modify form, and letting the vast knowledge of the user base be brought to > bear to get the port done in 1/10 the time and cost to Commodore, thereby > boosting your sales and hastening the return on your software development > investment. Kent, I am surprised at you! Software generally comes from the manufacturer complete! Are you suggesting that Commodore go ahead and ship the English version of Amigavision to Germany, and the German users can translate it? I personally think that Commodore is starting to participate in the world marketplace a bit better by providing support for the foreign languages. Support takes time. :-) > > Some of the thinking that comes out of CBM just staggers an intellect > used to common sense. Kent, take a few minutes, get some rest, the newsgroup thingie is catching up with you! :-) > /// It's Amiga > /// for me: why > Kent, the man from xanth. \\\/// settle for > <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> \XX/ anything less? > -- > Convener, ongoing comp.sys.amiga grand reorganization. Your friend, -mark= +--------+ ================================================== | \/ | Mark D. Manes "Mr. AmigaVision" | /\ \/ | manes@vger.nsu.edu | / | (804) 683-2532 "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA" +--------+ ==================================================
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (11/28/90)
In article <1990Nov27.020432.11108@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >karl@cbmvax.commodore.com (Karl Herrman - CATS) writes: >> boily@phy.ulaval.ca (Edouard Boily) writes: > >>> Just a short question about AmigaVision! Does someone know >>>what exactly the file 'AV_Text.English' contains? Is it the texts > >> The file does contain the text files for all the requestors, Error >> messages, etc The original file was created with a text editor and >> encrypted. We are already working on a French translation of ^^^^^^^^^ (he means simply compiled) >> AmigaVision amoung other languages. > >Is there someone at Commodore particularly in charge of making this kind >of decisions to antagonize the user base? > >Last I heard, there are some 3000 different human languages. Don't you >think you might be limiting your market just the teensiest bit by making >distribution to these other language groups wait until you folks get >around to finding someone who knows each language to do the translation >for you? > >As opposed, say, to putting the file out in well documented, easy to >modify form, and letting the vast knowledge of the user base be brought to >bear to get the port done in 1/10 the time and cost to Commodore, thereby >boosting your sales and hastening the return on your software development >investment. Oh boy, the last thing we would need would be 53 different homebrew German versions of AmigaVision. We have here so bad experiences with Amiga enthusiasts who are translating PD manuals into German, and afterwards it is such a bad German that everyone prefers to read it in English. So these works are done by the local Commodore subsidiaries (we here in Germany doing the German version and the French theirs), so that this will become homogenous. And you must also consider: It is not only those text strings! We have to wade through the whole program (ok, not we, we only send bug reports), we must check each and every requester, whether the gadgets are big enough (nearly ALL other languages than English have longer words). Well, nothing for a quick hobbyist's hack. And it is also not only the knowledge that is needed for such a task. You also must stick to a well defined standard of expressing and naming things. Translations must do compromises at every second, so a different person normally chooses something totally different. So one major task during this is to ensure homogenity throughout the whole documentation. (If you have access, there was an article by me in Amiga Mail Marketing about this.) -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (11/28/90)
In article <1990Nov27.112202.7471@ericsson.se> etxtomp@eos.ericsson.se writes: >- >Since Amiga doesn't have Resources and Resource Editors like Macint*sh, it's >not that simple. The programs must be able to handle the added length of >text strings in wordy languages like German "Videoapparaturkontrollengeraet" ...geraet" >(this is by no means correct German, but Yoy get my idea). English is a >very efficient language if You want to express something in not so many >characters, and still have it understandable. Go on, beat us! :-) But you hit the nail just on its head. We HAVE such long words, and it's a real hard stuff to cram even brutally abbreviated German words into gadgets optimized for English words. In AmigaVision they even fooled us with tricks a level higher. There was a word that was used several times (don't remember it in the moment) and only appeared once in the translation strings (others appear five times). But this very word just had to be translated differently for the different occurences. So we look forward to a little rework on all that stuff to get an easier to translate version of AV. Though one must say, they already did a great job in this issue, already 95 % of the translation problems are solved, and the remaining ones all appear solvable, too. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk