[comp.sys.amiga] The Amiga featured in Computer Chronicles

stx@vax1.mankato.msus.edu (Kevin Whyte) (11/18/90)

Well I just got done watching Computer Chronicles.  I must say that I think the
show presented the Amiga in a VERY positive light.  They opened with a musician
using the amiga and midi in the background while the shows host told what the
program was going to be about.  Next they went into the studio and introduced a
represenitive from commodore ( I think he was a VP but I can't remember for
sure,  If people really want to know I can review the tape I made and tell
you)  He introduced the Amiga 3000 and told a bit about the internals and how
it was different from the A2500/30.  He then went in a did a small demo of 2.0
which he said was included with the A3000 (duh) as well as Amigavision.  He
then turned the 3000 over to another person that demoed Amigavision.  This was
the first time I actually saw Amigavision.  It looks really great!!   He made a
small program(?) that took a digitized picture of the three stooges and created
a "hot spot"(place for the mouse to click) out of Curleys head.  He then showed
a premade demo of a rendered skeleton turning within a page of text and
different ways to zoom in, zoom out, and stop rotation.  He made it look
extremely easy!  Then he did a demo using a Amigavision and a pioneer
laserdisk.  It showed a book with different catagories of insects. You clicked
on the category you wanted and it played a segment of the videodisk
corresponding to the selection 'clicked'.
  After the demo of Amigavision they showed a story about the Palo Alto Users
Group( Sorry if I slaughtered the name) then they went to Hewlett Packard where
they were using an Amiga 2500/30 to develop an interactive training program for
their employees.  The engineer they interviewed said they selected the amiga
becuase they wanted a computer/software combination that would do the job right
of the shelf.
   After that story they went back top the studio and a couple of guys from
Newtek did a demo of the Video Toaster.  They did different video special
effects that I thought were very impressive.  I won't go into detail becuase I
don't know a damn thing about video.  They did tell that the video toaster for
$1500 did the same job as what is being done with $50000 + equipment.
  Oh I almost forgot, back on the A3000 a person from Disney did a demo of the
Disney Animation Studio.  When asked why Disney had written the software for
the amiga, the man said that the Amiga's graphics capabilities were very 
suitable for their application.

  I apologize for the post being this long I hadn't planned it to be.  During
the entire program not once was the amiga mentioned to be a "Game machine" 
instead it was refered to as a creative machine, a multimedia machine.  It was
a great program.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 stx@vax1.mankato.msus.edu           Kevin Whyte            Proud Owner of an
 Croaker@bbs.quartz :)         Mankato State University         Amiga 1000
 stx@att1.mankato.msus.edu        Mankato MN 56001
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

yorkw@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Willis F York) (11/18/90)

>   After that story they went back top the studio and a couple of guys from
>Newtek did a demo of the Video Toaster.  They did different video special
>effects that I thought were very impressive.  I won't go into detail becuase I
I don't think the Hosts realized Exactly How AWSOMELY Powerfull this
Toster is. They just seemed to say, Neat-o.....So...

>  Oh I almost forgot, back on the A3000 a person from Disney did a demo of the
>Disney Animation Studio.  When asked why Disney had written the software for
>the amiga, the man said that the Amiga's graphics capabilities were very 
>suitable for their application.

One of the Hosts mentioned somthing about the program lacking a feature.

it was about the Ink& paint Dept, You have to page through each frame
and fill in the color whgere it should be, Ie a Blue Wing/Yellow Beak.

The Host said Somthing like: " Seems like the program should automaticially
fill in the correct areas with color without goint through each frame"
(He said it REAL SNOOBY too) 

I started thinking about this... It CAN'T do this.. And i doubt if it
ever COULD be done. (IS my argument above clear?) 

say ya have a Bird Flapping in the animation.

Frame 1: The wings are down, ya fill in Blue. Tummy Yellow.
Frame 2: Ya then have to fill in the wings again, Tummy again.
(The Host wanted this to be done automaticially)
(This is "impossible" the computer whoud have to KNOW What parts ARE wings.)
I don't think the Host realized what the program was doing.
It was supposed to be a INTUIVELY easy animation program.

The host seemed to think it was a Structured Cad Type prog.

(The more i see the CC show the more i see it's like a COMPUTE magazine
ported to the Telly.)
See the Software revirew? A Progam like NAG for the MAC for ONLY $130.
I about Lost my Coffee at the mention of price.
(Last week they reviewed a SCREEN BLANKER for $30) IT used Full color
animations, Fish/Tosters/ect, What a Wast of CPU time.

The show still needs work. .


--
yorkw@ecn.purdue.edu  Willis F York    
----------------------------------------------
Macintosh... Proof that a Person can use a Computer all day and still
not know ANYTHING about computers. 

bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson) (11/18/90)

In article <yorkw.658894851@stable.ecn.purdue.edu> yorkw@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Willis F York) writes:
>
>One of the Hosts mentioned somthing about the program lacking a feature.
>
>it was about the Ink& paint Dept, You have to page through each frame
>and fill in the color whgere it should be, Ie a Blue Wing/Yellow Beak.
>
>The Host said Somthing like: " Seems like the program should automaticially
>fill in the correct areas with color without goint through each frame"
>(He said it REAL SNOOBY too) 
>
>I started thinking about this... It CAN'T do this.. And i doubt if it
>ever COULD be done. (IS my argument above clear?) 
>
>say ya have a Bird Flapping in the animation.
>
>Frame 1: The wings are down, ya fill in Blue. Tummy Yellow.
>Frame 2: Ya then have to fill in the wings again, Tummy again.
>(The Host wanted this to be done automaticially)
>(This is "impossible" the computer whoud have to KNOW What parts ARE wings.)

Not really. The ability to "know what is a wing and what is a beak"
requires some rudimentary edge detection and that the colored area not
change from frame to frame in increments large enough to cause the
program to lose the color in question at a given X/Y coordinate. In
other words, as long as the position of color block X in frame #2
still overlaps the position of color block X in frame #1, the program
can figure things out with relative ease. This is the basis for the
routines that are used to colorize B&W films.  Once you define a
new scene and and tell the program what blocks of the display are
what colors, it's really not hard to follow them from frame to frame.
The only problem comes with the "rabbit out of the hat" - something
crawls out from under the bed. The computer now says "huh?" :)

bj

>yorkw@ecn.purdue.edu  Willis F York    

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 | Brian Jackson  Software Engineer, Commodore-Amiga Inc.  GEnie: B.J. |
 | bj@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com    or  ...{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!bj     |
 | "Caught in the vice of heaven and earth,                            |
 |   he turned his life into a cell"           Think Green.            |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

jma@beach.cis.ufl.edu (John 'Vlad' Adams) (11/18/90)

Wasn't that show GREAT!?!?!

Some of the more memorable quotes:

"The ultimate video machine."

"Fonts for the blind." - Hedley Davis - Commodore

"How does a $1500 card do what takes a studio $50,000?"
"Part of the magic is the Amiga."  - Paul Montgomery - NewTek

Then we all laughed when Random Access news talked about the multimedia
from the IBM without mentioning prices.

For a transcript of the show, send $4 to:
Computer Chronicles
PTV Publication
P.O. Box 70
Kent, Ohio 44240

On a related note, this poor gal just bought one of the education
IBM machines.  A 286 with a 60 meg drive and VGA for the patry sum
of $3600.
--
John  M.  Adams   --**--   Professional Student on the eight-year plan!     ///
Internet:   jma@beach.cis.ufl.edu   -or-   vladimir@maple.circa.ufl.edu    ///
"We'll always be together, together in electric dreams" Moroder & Oakey \\V//
Sysop of The Beachside.   FIDOnet 1:3612/557.   904-492-2305  (Florida)  \X/

mwm@raven.relay.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (11/20/90)

In article <15938@cbmvax.commodore.com> bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson) writes:
   >(The Host wanted this to be done automaticially)
   >(This is "impossible" the computer whoud have to KNOW What parts ARE wings.)

   Not really. The ability to "know what is a wing and what is a beak"
   requires some rudimentary edge detection and that the colored area not
   change from frame to frame in increments large enough to cause the
   program to lose the color in question at a given X/Y coordinate.

Yes, it can be done. But even the simple bird flying animation would
have problems with sudden movements (the wings appearing below the
bird on the bottom of the stroke).

I talked with Leo about this several years ago, basically suggesting
what you did. He wasn't sure it could be done. What is clear is that
it can't be done reliably, and TAS is for naive, inexperienced users.
What is perfectly acceptables for professionals at TBS may not be
acceptable for such users.

On the other hand, the demo on CC managed to missed coloring one part
of the wing for one frame. A "check coloring" feature for detecting
such would be nice.  Wouldn't be hard, either - except for dealing
with things colored in the background color. [NB - I don't own TAS, so
this may be there.]

	<mike
--

bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson) (11/20/90)

In article <MWM.90Nov19131152@raven.relay.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.relay.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) writes:
>In article <15938@cbmvax.commodore.com> bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson) writes:
>   >(The Host wanted this to be done automaticially)
>   >(This is "impossible" the computer whoud have to KNOW What parts ARE wings.)
>   Not really. The ability to "know what is a wing and what is a beak"
>   requires some rudimentary edge detection and that ... 
>
>I talked with Leo about this several years ago, basically suggesting
>what you did. He wasn't sure it could be done. What is clear is that
>it can't be done reliably, and TAS is for naive, inexperienced users.
>What is perfectly acceptables for professionals at TBS may not be
>acceptable for such users.

Oh yes, I totally agree. This was just theory mind you :)  We had such
code working on an old Inovion PGS-1 a while back (there is a picture
of this machine in the dictionary under the word "slow") that did it
fairly well.  As long as a given block of color overlapped at least
part of the position it held in the previous frame, it could find it's
way through about 95% of the time. It still stopped at each frame to
be sure that you were happy with things but it worked.

bj

>	<mike

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 | Brian Jackson  Software Engineer, Commodore-Amiga Inc   GEnie: B.J. |
 | bj@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com    or  ...{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!bj     |
 |"Kill a small animal, drink a lite beer."                            |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

nsw@cbnewsm.att.com (Neil Weinstock) (11/22/90)

In article <yorkw.658894851@stable.ecn.purdue.edu>, yorkw@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Willis F York) writes:
[ ... ]
> See the Software revirew? A Progam like NAG for the MAC for ONLY $130.
> I about Lost my Coffee at the mention of price.
> (Last week they reviewed a SCREEN BLANKER for $30) IT used Full color
> animations, Fish/Tosters/ect, What a Wast of CPU time.

On the Amiga, we have C compiler wars, comm program wars, hard disk
controller wars, etc.  On the Mac, they have screen blanker wars.  I swear
I have never seen so much wasted effort as gets put into these commercial
screen blankers (which, of course, never really "blank" the screen).

On the other hand, a screen blanker is a great place to put neat little
graphics hacks that have no real purpose.  Some of them are really quite
cute.

The funny thing is that many of the modules they have in the blankers don't
serve the ultimate purpose that they're supposed to.  That is, they leave
lots of stationary graphics on the screen, often in bright saturated colors.
Woops!

                                   - Neil

--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--
Neil Weinstock @ AT&T Bell Labs        //     What was sliced bread
att!edsel!nsw or nsw@edsel.att.com   \X/    the greatest thing since?

david@twg.com (David S. Herron) (11/26/90)

In article <yorkw.658894851@stable.ecn.purdue.edu> yorkw@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Willis F York) writes:
>The Host said Somthing like: " Seems like the program should automaticially
>fill in the correct areas with color without goint through each frame"
>(He said it REAL SNOOBY too) 
...
>Frame 1: The wings are down, ya fill in Blue. Tummy Yellow.
>Frame 2: Ya then have to fill in the wings again, Tummy again.
>(The Host wanted this to be done automaticially)
>(This is "impossible" the computer whoud have to KNOW What parts ARE wings.)
					  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I don't think the Host realized what the program was doing.
>It was supposed to be a INTUIVELY easy animation program.


*exactly*

It *should* be a sort of thing where you describe to the program the
*objects* in the animation.  Part of the description is the color
of the part.  Part of the description may be rules about how they
move in relation to each other.

Reason?  Think about a 20-minute animation.  That has, what, 21600
frames in it (18 frames/second).  Think about hand coloring that
many frames.  The role of computers in this world is to make
mind-numbing jobs like that *simpler*.


-- 
<- David Herron, an MMDF & WIN/MHS guy, <david@twg.com>
<- Formerly: David Herron -- NonResident E-Mail Hack <david@ms.uky.edu>
<-
<- Use the force Wes!

sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (11/27/90)

david@twg.com (David S. Herron) writes:


>Reason?  Think about a 20-minute animation.  That has, what, 21600
>frames in it (18 frames/second).  Think about hand coloring that
>many frames.  The role of computers in this world is to make
>mind-numbing jobs like that *simpler*.


Gee where have you been David? The state of the art cartoons only do around
5 frames a second any more :-) take a look at those cheopo Japanese cartoons
Heck sometimes they only do 2 or 3 frames a second, and even then they only
move one small part of the picture at a time (like maybe the mouth and eyes)
[not to mention they all talk like 'Lothar of the Hill People' (from saturday
night live TV show)]

So you only need 6000 frames to make a 20 minute state-of-the-art animation :-)


-- 
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seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (12/01/90)

In-Reply-To: message from sparks@corpane.UUCP

 
I don't really want to start something over this, but being an avid anime fan,
I just had to comment on your message regarding Japanese animation...
 
While it's true that your average daytime cartoon has very few frames, 5-8 per
second, the artwork level on a per-frame basis far exceeds that of US
animations in the same category (especially if you're dealing with Hanna
Babara...ick!).
 
Whether or not you consider this an okay tradeoff I guess depends on what
you're into...
 
Sean
 
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