rodent@netcom.UUCP (Richard Noah) (12/02/90)
I work as a C/systems programmer here at VersaSoft, where we produce a
DBMS that runs on a great many platforms, including the Amiga and Atari.
Due to some strange arrangements, we have here both a top-of-the-line
A3000 and an Atari TT030. As a longstanding amigoid (since Dec'85) I was
curious about Atari's efforts to keep up and compete. Last I checked,
ST sales in the US were nearly dead, so I wasn't expecting much in the way
of new development. However, it appears they are as alive as ever in
Europe, so they managed to produce this interesting machine, which is
quite obviously an attempt to duplicate the 3000:
Atari TT030 specs
-----------------
68030 @ 32 Mhz / 68882
2, 4, 6, or 8 MB RAM, expandable to 26 MB using 4Mbit chips
Graphics: palette of 4096 colors
ST video modes plus: TT Low (320 x 480 x 256)
TT Medium (640 x 480 x 16)
TT High (1280 x 960 x 2) requires special monitor
Ports: (this is where it gets really interesting)
Midi In, Midi Out
VME-compatible Eurocard slot
Monitor port (same VGA port as a 3000)
Parallel port
2 serial ports (labeled "VME" on the machine)
2 "fully configured" RS232 Modem ports
Floppy Disk port (include controller)
SCSI port
LAN interface
ACSI DMA port (10 megabits per second DMA transfer rate)
ROM Cartridge port (after all, it IS an Atari) (128K capacity)
Mouse/Joystick and Joystick ports
(thats what the manual says, but in reality the mouse plugs into the
keyboard (keyboard has a mouse/joystick port on each side!))
Stereo sound output
And:
Built-In hard disk (apparently available in 20, 40, 60, or 80 MB, but this
is never stated directly anywhere)
My impressions:
The first thing you notice is that the fan is extremely noisy. The second
is that TOS hasn't changed noticably in 6 years, still clumsy, ugly,
lacking important things like multitasking or even a shell, and SLOW,
even on a 68030 that supposedly at 32 Mhz (although half the documentation
says it's 16Mhz). There was a mandelbrot demo included that was both
ugly and extremely slow, and a 3D graphic demo which was impressive, but
totally took over the machine (power switch to exit, ugh!).
After two days it stopped working. I wasn't surprised.
Conclusions:
The workstation market has nothing to fear from this machine, even if
Atari prices it at $1500 or some such ridiculously low Atari price. Frankly,
the operating system is so horrid, puny and slow that even with all the
PD enhancements (most of which don't work on an 030/latest TOS) the machine
is unusable.
Now we can go back to our much more interesting 3000/color Next discussions,
yeah!
------------------------------------
Ben Discoe, caltech escapee and frustrated visionary, borrowing this account
that will undoubtably be killed at any moment.ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) (12/03/90)
rodent@netcom.UUCP (Richard Noah) writes: - Last I checked, ST sales in the US were nearly dead, so I wasn't - expecting much in the way of new development. How could you check ST sales? Atari has never released the figures, not even to developers. - However, it appears they are as alive as ever in Europe, so they - managed to produce this interesting machine, which is quite - obviously an attempt to duplicate the 3000: The TT has been 'in development' since the days when the ST first came out. Atari has always said that they were coming out with a 68030-based machine. I suppose if Commodore produces an Amiga laptop, you could say that it's "quite obviously an attempt to duplicate the Stacy." - Atari TT030 specs - ----------------- - 68030 @ 32 Mhz / 68882 - 2, 4, 6, or 8 MB RAM, expandable to 26 MB using 4Mbit chips - Graphics: palette of 4096 colors - ST video modes plus: TT Low (320 x 480 x 256) - TT Medium (640 x 480 x 16) - TT High (1280 x 960 x 2) requires special monitor - Ports: (this is where it gets really interesting) - Midi In, Midi Out - VME-compatible Eurocard slot - Monitor port (same VGA port as a 3000) - Parallel port - 2 serial ports (labeled "VME" on the machine) - 2 "fully configured" RS232 Modem ports - Floppy Disk port (include controller) - SCSI port - LAN interface - ACSI DMA port (10 megabits per second DMA transfer rate) - ROM Cartridge port (after all, it IS an Atari) (128K capacity) - Mouse/Joystick and Joystick ports - (thats what the manual says, but in reality the mouse plugs into the - keyboard (keyboard has a mouse/joystick port on each side!)) - Stereo sound output - And: - Built-In hard disk (apparently available in 20, 40, 60, or 80 MB, - but this is never stated directly anywhere) The following information was posted in comp.sys.atari.st a couple of days ago. ------------------------------- I just got this information from my local Atari dealer (gosh, I actually have 2 of them!) from his new price list. Atari TT (32MHz 68030,...we know the specs) (These are Suggested Retail Price) 2megsRam/50megHD --- $2999.95 4megsRam/50megHD --- $3499.95 8megsRam/80megHD --- $4299.95 TT color monitor -- $549.95 (forgot to ask about the 2-page monitor) Yes, the TT does include a 68882 (not 881) FPU !! Yeah! Keyboard is included My dealer said he could lower the price quite a bit and still make a good profit. Expect street prices to be about 3/4 of MSRP. --------------------------- rodent@netcom.UUCP (Richard Noah) continues: - My impressions: - The first thing you notice is that the fan is extremely noisy. - The second is that TOS hasn't changed noticably in 6 years, still - clumsy, ugly, lacking important things like multitasking or even a - shell, and SLOW, even on a 68030 that supposedly at 32 Mhz (although - half the documentation says it's 16Mhz). If you want a very nice GUI, you get NeoDesk 3.0. If you want a nice shell, you can get NeoDesk CLI or good PD ones like Gulam. If you want to see SLOW, look at ProWrite on a 3000 and Tempus on an ST. ProWrite is like molasses. - Conclusions: - The workstation market has nothing to fear from this machine, even - if Atari prices it at $1500 or some such ridiculously low Atari - price. Frankly, the operating system is so horrid, puny and slow - that even with all the PD enhancements (most of which don't work on - an 030/latest TOS) the machine is unusable. I will ignore your claims that it's 'horrid, puny, and slow' because that's simply an opinion. I think the Amiga OS is horrid, puny, and slow; that's why I have an STe. But I'd like to know which PD enhancements won't work. Did you go out of your way to find the oldest, worst PD programs with the fewest features? I thought about sending this via e-mail, but decided we could all benefit. ;^( If this develops into a long flame war, you can just say that he started it. -- Ed Krimen ............................................... ||| Video Production Major, California State University, Chico ||| INTERNET: ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu FREENET: al661 / | \ SysOp, Fuji BBS: 916-894-1261 FIDONET: 1:119/4.0
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (12/03/90)
In article <17900@netcom.UUCP> rodent@netcom.UUCP (Richard Noah) writes: > >Atari TT030 specs >----------------- >68030 @ 32 Mhz / 68882 Well, truely it's a 16 MHz machine with the processor sitting on a little piggyback board with an own oscillator boosting it (alone) to 32 MHz. So the only way to gain real advantage of the 32 MHz is with programs fitting into the 68030 internal cache. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (12/04/90)
In-Reply-To: message from ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu While I'm going to refrain from thrashing you for your comment about AmigaDOS...as a 2.0 user, I'm most pleased. However, your comment about ProWrite couldn't be more false, unless they've made it worse. I've used PW v2.5 on a beta A3000 several months ago when I worked at a dealership. If that's slow, what kind of drugs have you been taking? They're up to what, v3.0 or is it v3.5 now? I'm sure they wouldn't have slowed it down. If you're all fired up to get a TT, get one. But we'd rather contain our discussions to topics worth mentioning... Sean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .SIG v2.5 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc RealWorld: Sean Cunningham ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil Voice: (512) 992-2810 INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com ____________________________________ // | * All opinions expressed herein | HELP KEEP THE COMPETITION UNDER \X/ | Copyright 1990 VISION GRAPHICS | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<