es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (11/15/90)
According to a CBM press release dated 11/12 Commodore has now officially sold their two millionth Amiga, having just passed the one million mark just over 1 1/2 years ago. Everyone was saying that the 1,000,000th machine would bring in developers. Now we've doubled that. MAYBE things will change, maybe. -- Ethan If God were suddenly condemned to live the life which he has inflicted upon men, He would kill himself. -- Alexandre Dumas Which is it: is man one of God's blunders, or is God one of man's blunders? -- Nietzsche They're JOKES! Lighten up! 8) Flames will be ignored.
jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (11/16/90)
The only thing that's disappointing, is that I've heard 3/4 of the sales
were in Europe. (Is this pretty close to the figures?)
Let's hope sales in the U.S. get a boost this Christmas.
Jasoncaldwell_m@darwin.ntu.edu.au (11/19/90)
In article <46200145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > > The only thing that's disappointing, is that I've heard 3/4 of the sales > were in Europe. (Is this pretty close to the figures?) > Let's hope sales in the U.S. get a boost this Christmas. > Jason I find Americans with this kind of attitude a pain. Are people who buy amigas but are not from the US second class or something? 2 million in sales is 2 million is sales and a potentail market wherever they are. MALCOLM CALDWELL CALDWELL_M@DARWIN.NTU.EDU Darwin Australia FIDO 3:690/648.3
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (11/19/90)
In article <1990Nov19.132121.373@darwin.ntu.edu.au> caldwell_m@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes: >In article <46200145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >> >> The only thing that's disappointing, is that I've heard 3/4 of the sales >> were in Europe. (Is this pretty close to the figures?) >> Let's hope sales in the U.S. get a boost this Christmas. >> Jason > >I find Americans with this kind of attitude a pain. Are people who buy >amigas but are not from the US second class or something? > >2 million in sales is 2 million is sales and a potentail market wherever >they are. > You don't understand WHY it bothers us that 3/4 are in Europe. In America the Amiga is considered a joke by most "business/professional" people. Most people don't know Commodore makes any professional machines and most think that Commodore is going bankrupt. That won't change unless CBM can start selling more machines in this country. When we see 3/4 of all sales in Europe we worry that Commodore will treat people from the US as second class by giving up on this country. > MALCOLM CALDWELL CALDWELL_M@DARWIN.NTU.EDU > Darwin Australia FIDO 3:690/648.3 -- Ethan If God were suddenly condemned to live the life which he has inflicted upon men, He would kill himself. -- Alexandre Dumas Which is it: is man one of God's blunders, or is God one of man's blunders? -- Nietzsche They're JOKES! Lighten up! 8) Flames will be ignored.
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (11/19/90)
In <1990Nov19.132121.373@darwin.ntu.edu.au>, caldwell_m@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes: >In article <46200145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >> >> The only thing that's disappointing, is that I've heard 3/4 of the sales >> were in Europe. (Is this pretty close to the figures?) >> Let's hope sales in the U.S. get a boost this Christmas. >> Jason > >I find Americans with this kind of attitude a pain. Are people who buy >amigas but are not from the US second class or something? > >2 million in sales is 2 million is sales and a potentail market wherever >they are. Don't be so paranoid. This kind of attitude exists because everyone would like to see more of their favourite machine sold in their own country, if for no other reason than having better dealer support for it. It has nothing to do with any feelings about the users in other countries. Sheesh! -larry -- The only things to survive a nuclear war will be cockroaches and IBM PCs. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson) (11/19/90)
In article <1990Nov19.132121.373@darwin.ntu.edu.au> caldwell_m@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes: >In article <46200145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >> The only thing that's disappointing, is that I've heard 3/4 of the sales >> were in Europe. (Is this pretty close to the figures?) >> Let's hope sales in the U.S. get a boost this Christmas. >> Jason >I find Americans with this kind of attitude a pain. Are people who buy >amigas but are not from the US second class or something? > > MALCOLM CALDWELL CALDWELL_M@DARWIN.NTU.EDU > Darwin Australia FIDO 3:690/648.3 I think you could just as easily say that it *complements* the non-American computer enthusiast, no? It would seem that more folks outside the U.S. are wise enough to know a good thing when they see one. :) bj ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Brian Jackson Software Engineer, Commodore-Amiga Inc. GEnie: B.J. | | bj@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com or ...{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!bj | | "My beer comes from farther away than your beer." (Fosters ? :) | -----------------------------------------------------------------------
v092mgp5@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott K Wood) (11/20/90)
In article <1990Nov19.132121.373@darwin.ntu.edu.au>, caldwell_m@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes... >I find Americans with this kind of attitude a pain. Are people who buy >amigas but are not from the US second class or something? > >2 million in sales is 2 million is sales and a potentail market wherever >they are. I don't think that the author meant to imply that. But in a world where Commodore has to compete with corporations such as Apple, IBM, NEXT, etc., who sell a majority of their machines in the US, it is imperative that Commodore do well especially in the United States in order to remain competetive. Scott BITNET : v092mgp5@ubvms.bitnet INTERNET : v092mgp5@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
md41@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Marcus Dolengo) (11/20/90)
In article <1990Nov19.132121.373@darwin.ntu.edu.au> caldwell_m@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes: >In article <46200145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >> >> The only thing that's disappointing, is that I've heard 3/4 of the sales >> were in Europe. (Is this pretty close to the figures?) >> Let's hope sales in the U.S. get a boost this Christmas. >> Jason > >I find Americans with this kind of attitude a pain. Are people who buy >amigas but are not from the US second class or something? > >2 million in sales is 2 million is sales and a potentail market wherever >they are. > > MALCOLM CALDWELL CALDWELL_M@DARWIN.NTU.EDU > Darwin Australia FIDO 3:690/648.3 It does make a difference to software developers who would release a product in Europe but not here because the market here may not be solid enough to justify it. Many games are like that and I'm quite certain more "serious" programs are treated accordingly as well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o o | This Space For Rent Only Amiga!! // << md41@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu >> | Amerikkka's Most Wanted \X/ /> <\ | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Help! I've fallen and can't get up" "We went to Holland, land of Dykes. Hated it!" <In Living Color>
drxmann@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dustin Christmann) (11/20/90)
In article <1990Nov19.132121.373@darwin.ntu.edu.au> caldwell_m@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes: >In article <46200145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >> >> The only thing that's disappointing, is that I've heard 3/4 of the sales >> were in Europe. (Is this pretty close to the figures?) >> Let's hope sales in the U.S. get a boost this Christmas. >> Jason > >I find Americans with this kind of attitude a pain. Are people who buy >amigas but are not from the US second class or something? > >2 million in sales is 2 million is sales and a potentail market wherever >they are. > > MALCOLM CALDWELL CALDWELL_M@DARWIN.NTU.EDU > Darwin Australia FIDO 3:690/648.3 I believe that Mr. Caldwell is reading more into the quoted statement than there really is. As one reader has already posted, it shows that outside the US, computer buyers generally have better judgement in buying (or that C= does a better job in promoting, take your pick.) The point being made is simply that in the largest personal computer market in the world, Commodore isn't making much of a dent. The larger software manufacturers like Lotus, Microsoft, etc. are based here in the US with large worldwide distribution have at least 3/4 (probably not exact) of their sales here. They read the sales figures, of course, and have a hard time justifying manufacturing Amiga versions of their software, which one often sees in shops overseas. Now the story comes full cir- cle. When the average business buyer, who just wants to run <insert name of me- gapopular application here>, sees that a PeeCee runs it and the Amiga doesn't, which computer do you think he/she going to buy? And the vicious circle con- tinues... Also, while bigger companies do not necessarily sell better software, they set standards and sell computers. So while the topic is not necessarily "Amerika ueber Alles" the importance of the American market in the computer industry cannot be understated. No Amiga is an island. If you don't believe it, look at how many software/accessories of American origin you have. Lunk, lunk, lunk, *RULPS* Dustin R. Christmann Internet: drxmann@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Bitnet: DRXMANN@UTXVM Sam: What's happenin', Norm? Norm: It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and I'm wearin' Milk Bone underwear... -Taken from _Cheers_
sjorr@lion.uwaterloo.ca (Stephen Orr) (11/20/90)
In article <39975@ut-emx.uucp> drxmann@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dustin Christmann) writes: >Also, while bigger companies do not necessarily sell better software, they set >standards and sell computers. So while the topic is not necessarily "Amerika >ueber Alles" the importance of the American market in the computer industry >cannot be understated. No Amiga is an island. If you don't believe it, look at >how many software/accessories of American origin you have. Let's not write off this machine before we get started. You mention 'Lotus' perhaps not a very good example, Lotus is available on the NeXT, a machine with FAR fewer units sold in any country, obviously Lotus is using something else to decide when and where to develop. Also, recent numbers indicate that the Amiga software market, is ABOVE the industry projected growth (that is growth of microcomputer software sales), and that Amiga growth is ahead of ALL other micros (including PC & Mac). Commodore is very busy getting into multimedia in a big way. The CDTV is real, it has Apple & Microsoft paying attention, and it will make a BIG impression. The 3500 is real, it will be annouced (sometime ;-), and it will be followed by other hardware. In my opinion, as a developer, as a student, and a long time user of many different types of machine, the Amiga is not even close to it's growth potential yet, and we could still see surprising things from Commodore in the future. By the way, I know a bunch of people here (at Waterloo) who spent workterms writing code for MicroSoft, specifically Window 3.0, and they ALL own Amigas. Stephen Orr SandIsoft
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (11/21/90)
caldwell_m@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes: >In article <46200145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >> >> The only thing that's disappointing, is that I've heard 3/4 of the sales >> were in Europe. (Is this pretty close to the figures?) >> Let's hope sales in the U.S. get a boost this Christmas. >> Jason >I find Americans with this kind of attitude a pain. Are people who buy >amigas but are not from the US second class or something? I don't think he meant it as a put down to people outside the USA, but that: 1> There are not that many Amigas sold over here (USA) as compared to europe. 2> In Europe the Amiga is selling better than the USA and it has a better reputation over there. 3> If there were more Amiga's sold over here, maybe it would get a better reputation over here. or 4> Maybe if Amiga had a better reputation over here, it would sell more. 3 and 4 are probably intertwined. The Amigas reputation in a particular area (such as USA or Europe) seems to be tied to sales in that particular area. Telling people that there are over 1.5 Million Amigas over in Europe doesn't help its reputation over here, just as it would not help its reputation over in Europe if the sales figures were reversed. Considering overseas owners as 'second class citizens' who's opinions don't count, doesn't really come into it at all. It's more like "I don't care what the Amiga is doing anywhere but right here", which is typical for anyone to think, even Europeans. I am sure they don't really care that IBM clones outsell Amigas in the USA, any more than Americans care that Amiga's outsell IBM clones in Europe (if they do, it's just an example) So I think what Jason was disapointed in was that because most of the sales were overseas from the USA, it means that the Amiga's reputation will continue to be poor over here, at least until we can get the numbers-of-units-sold-in-the-USA up a bit higher. -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
rwm@atronx.ocug.on.ca (Russell McOrmond) (11/21/90)
In a message posted on 19 Nov 90 03:51:21 GMT,
caldwell_m@darwin.ntu.edu.au wrote:
c>In article <46200145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
c>> Let's hope sales in the U.S. get a boost this Christmas.
c>I find Americans with this kind of attitude a pain. Are people who buy
c>amigas but are not from the US second class or something?
Actually, I believe completely the opposite (And this is not because I'm
a Canadian - WE have the same small sales record). I find most of the
Non-North-American to be better able to make an EDUCATED decision as to what
computer to buy. The average person in the U.S. just says 'Hey, is it IBM
compatable', and does not even realize that this is a DIS-ADVANTAGE ;-)
---
Opinions expressed in this message are my Own. My Employer does not even
know what these networks ARE.
Russell McOrmond rwm@atronx.UUCP {fts1,alzabo}!atronx!rwm
FidoNet 1:163/109 Net Support: (613) 230-2282
Amiga-Fidonet Support 1:1/109a143@mindlink.UUCP (Ed Meyer) (11/21/90)
> sparks@corpane.UUCP writes: > [...] > I don't think he meant it as a put down to people outside the USA, but > [...] > So I think what Jason was disapointed in was that because most of the > sales were overseas from the USA, it means that the Amiga's reputation > will continue to be poor over here, at least until we can get the > numbers-of-units-sold-in-the-USA up a bit higher. > -- > John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User > [...] John, in addition to being a VP of D&D, I also instruct Nightschool courses in the Vancouver (Canada) area. Lately there has been an interesting trend: students are noticing that in normally MS-DOS only work areas, management is not only considering but actually installing Amigas in place of new MS-DOS machines -- the Bridgeboard concept seems to help a lot, along with the better (multisync) display capabilities and the workstation concepts. From my observations -- I've also taught MS-DOS courses as well as use MS-DOS machines -- once people actually see realworld technical and multimedia software availabily running on an Amiga with its proven multitasking, people start to take notice. Remember, surveys have show that typically 80-90% of the population are followers and sheep. So, you can't really fault people for doing what comes naturally. The fault lay in the Old Commodore style of "marketing" in the USA and Canada -- especially when you see the more aggressive approaches taken the non-North American Commodore-Amiga entities. Let's, however, give credit where credit is due: the new marketing style from Commodore-Amiga USA is having a definite impact (even the late Berlin Wall had to come down a section at a time) and is aimed at several leading-trend market niches. As long as Commodore-Amiga keeps seeking what the market wants and thence leading thereby, they (Commodore-Amiga USA) should keep gaining ground ... time will tell.
martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Daniel Martin) (11/22/90)
In article <1990Nov20.155840.5249@watdragon.waterloo.edu> sjorr@lion.uwaterloo.ca (Stephen Orr) writes: >Let's not write off this machine before we get started. You mention 'Lotus' >perhaps not a very good example, Lotus is available on the NeXT, a machine >with FAR fewer units sold in any country, obviously Lotus is using something >else to decide when and where to develop. They simply base their decision on money. As I heard (rumors...) NeXT went to Lotus maker's with a little check, and asked for the port. I heard that Commodore recently discovered this technique... (rumors...) :-) Daniel. -- // Daniel Martin Universite de Montreal \\ // MediaLab, ca vous regarde! C.P. 6128, Succursale A, \\ \\// Mail: martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA Montreal (Quebec), CANADA, \\// \/ Tel.: (514) 343-6111 poste 3494 H3C 3J7 \/
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (11/22/90)
In article <3673@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >caldwell_m@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes: > >>In article <46200145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >>> >>> The only thing that's disappointing, is that I've heard 3/4 of the sales >>> were in Europe. (Is this pretty close to the figures?) >>> Let's hope sales in the U.S. get a boost this Christmas. >>> Jason > >2> In Europe the Amiga is selling better than the USA and it has a better > reputation over there. I think it's more the reputation of Commodore here in Europe. What you experience in America is still a result of the policy of Jack Tramiel to sell to the masses not the classes. In following this policy, Commodore America abandoned the whole series of serious bureau PET and CBM computers, concentrating only on VC 20, C 64 and the ill-fated Plus/4, C 16/116. So he intentionally cut one of his legs to stand on, leaving Commodore with the reputation of a game computer-only company. - In Europe things went different. Here the series of bureau computers was kept, and in Germany Commodore dominated this market at every time, IBM becoming the only contender. So the differences stem from this old time, and I have learned two things from this: 1. Once your reputation is damaged (or changed), it is really hard and time-consuming to overcome this. 2. Men make history. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
hwr@pilhuhn.uucp (Heiko W.Rupp) (11/24/90)
Organization: Not an Organization In article <1990Nov19.054642.20169@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, Ethan Solomita writes: >In article <1990Nov19.132121.373@darwin.ntu.edu.au> caldwell_m@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes: >>In article <46200145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: [ some stuff deleted ] >>2 million in sales is 2 million is sales and a potentail market wherever >>they are. >> >Europe. In America the Amiga is considered a joke by most >"business/professional" people. Most people don't know Commodore >makes any professional machines and most think that Commodore is >going bankrupt. If You look in the paper, then you'll realize, that C= actions augmented 2$ within last 3 weeks, so I think that more people know about good/professional machines from C= than You think -Heiko --- O|O Heiko W.Rupp Path: ...!ira.uka.de!smurf!flatlin!bagsend!pilhuhn!hwr | Gerwigstr.5 | There is someone in my head, but it't not me U FRG-7500 Karlsruhe 1 | - Pink Floyd Voice : + 49 721 693642| Do You know where Your towel is ???
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (11/25/90)
In article <18415c46.ARN0e35@pilhuhn.uucp> hwr%pilhuhn@bagsend.ka.sub.org writes: >Organization: Not an Organization > >In article <1990Nov19.054642.20169@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, Ethan Solomita writes: >> >>Europe. In America the Amiga is considered a joke by most >>"business/professional" people. Most people don't know Commodore >>makes any professional machines and most think that Commodore is >>going bankrupt. > >If You look in the paper, then you'll realize, that C= actions >augmented 2$ within last 3 weeks, so I think that more people know >about good/professional machines from C= than You think > This doesn't prove anything. Commodore stock goes up and down like a roller-coaster. It was down at around 3-4 not too long ago and before that it was up to 20. What has happened during this time that wasn't predictable? Not a whole hell of a lot. Certainly not enough for the stock to drop by 80% and now to go up over 150%. The stock market is legalized gambling. The bottom line is sales, and all of north america (including, obviously canada) contribute only 18% of total sales. That means the US represents a little over 10% of total sales. That sucks, and Commodore knows it. Hopefully they'll be able to bring it around. >-Heiko > > >--- > O|O Heiko W.Rupp Path: ...!ira.uka.de!smurf!flatlin!bagsend!pilhuhn!hwr > | Gerwigstr.5 | There is someone in my head, but it't not me > U FRG-7500 Karlsruhe 1 | - Pink Floyd > Voice : + 49 721 693642| Do You know where Your towel is ??? -- Ethan Woody Allen on Los Angeles: "I mean, who would want to live in a place where the only cultural advantage is that you can turn right on a red light?"
monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) (11/27/90)
In article <1990Nov24.184010.18774@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > This doesn't prove anything. Commodore stock goes up and >down like a roller-coaster. It was down at around 3-4 not too >long ago and before that it was up to 20. What has happened >during this time that wasn't predictable? Not a whole hell of a ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Iran was predictable in it's take over of Kuwait??? A lot of people over there would have really been greatful if you had told them before hand. >lot. Certainly not enough for the stock to drop by 80% and now to >go up over 150%. The stock market is legalized gambling. Lets get some facts straight! Since July 90 Commodore stock has had a low of $4 5/8 and a High (last friday ) of $10. In July/August it was hovering around $7-$8 a share, when the Iran crisis broke the whole stock market dropped. This is when CBU hit the 4 5/8 low. It has since recovered quite nicely, have you noticed what the biggies are doing? Apple is still below what it was and I bet if you check you will see that IBM is also still down. Commodore has had problems in the past which have caused it many headaches, but it is starting to look much, much better now. Have a nice day, Monty Saine
hwr@pilhuhn.uucp (Heiko W.Rupp) (11/27/90)
Organization: Not an Organization In article <1990Nov24.184010.18774@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, Ethan Solomita writes: >In article <18415c46.ARN0e35@pilhuhn.uucp> hwr%pilhuhn@bagsend.ka.sub.org writes: >> >>In article <1990Nov19.054642.20169@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, Ethan Solomita writes: [some stuff deleted] >>If You look in the paper, then you'll realize, that C= actions >>augmented 2$ within last 3 weeks, so I think that more people know >>about good/professional machines from C= than You think >> > This doesn't prove anything. Commodore stock goes up and >down like a roller-coaster. It was down at around 3-4 not too >long ago and before that it was up to 20. What has happened >during this time that wasn't predictable? Not a whole hell of a >lot. Certainly not enough for the stock to drop by 80% and now to >go up over 150%. The stock market is legalized gambling. Yes,that's right, but when the other stocks go down and C= goes up there must be a reason for it. > The bottom line is sales, and all of north america >(including, obviously canada) contribute only 18% of total sales. >That means the US represents a little over 10% of total sales. >That sucks, and Commodore knows it. Hopefully they'll be able to >bring it around. Here in Germany they are pushing sales not only for AMIGA (A500 for the kids to play as an intelligent shoot-and-learn toy...) put also for PC/AT etc. with which they have been 2nd here on the market (behind I*M) for a long time. I think here in Germany AMIGA is well-liked by the kids who don't want to learn how to start a game (or even serious things) from a CLI, but who want to play. On the other hand it's used by publicity and tv -experts, but you don't see them in offices because there is no really good wordprocessor (like MS-Word on MAC) (C= shouldn't you do anything) For my part I like my A1000. -Heiko --- O|O Heiko W.Rupp Path: ...!ira.uka.de!smurf!flatlin!bagsend!pilhuhn!hwr | Gerwigstr.5 | There is someone in my head, but it't not me U FRG-7500 Karlsruhe 1 | - Pink Floyd Voice : + 49 721 693642| Do You know where Your towel is ???
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (11/27/90)
In article <18457cde.ARN0e5e@pilhuhn.uucp> hwr%pilhuhn@bagsend.ka.sub.org writes: >Organization: Not an Organization > >In article <1990Nov24.184010.18774@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, Ethan Solomita writes: > >> This doesn't prove anything. Commodore stock goes up and >>down like a roller-coaster. It was down at around 3-4 not too >>long ago and before that it was up to 20. What has happened >>during this time that wasn't predictable? Not a whole hell of a >>lot. Certainly not enough for the stock to drop by 80% and now to >>go up over 150%. The stock market is legalized gambling. > >Yes,that's right, but when the other stocks go down and C= goes up >there must be a reason for it. > Yes, there is a reason for it. A falling dollar and the fact that their fiscal reports are reported in dollars. Considering that on the order of 90% of their machines are not sold with American dollars, this is inflating the stock. -- Ethan Woody Allen on Los Angeles: "I mean, who would want to live in a place where the only cultural advantage is that you can turn right on a red light?"
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (11/27/90)
In article <955@sagpd1.UUCP> monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) writes: >In article <1990Nov24.184010.18774@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >> This doesn't prove anything. Commodore stock goes up and >>down like a roller-coaster. It was down at around 3-4 not too >>long ago and before that it was up to 20. What has happened >>during this time that wasn't predictable? Not a whole hell of a > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Iran was predictable in it's take over of Kuwait??? A lot of people > over there would have really been greatful if you had told them before > hand. > Iraq's takeover of Kuwait wasn't predictable, of course. Looking at what I wrote I misphrased it. I was trying to say that nothing unusual has happened that would cause the stock to go from 4 5/8, as you say, to 10. I had thought that the stock dropped to the high 3s rather than the high 4s, but that is a trivial difference at this point (it is now around 10 8). The recent upsurge to 10 (from as you say 8 but I thought it was lower) happened very quickly, 1 point in the last day, such that people were wondering what was going on. I say the market is legalized gambling. Even if nothing happens the stock will surge and fall. It also makes no sense for the stock to go up come Christmas time and fall immediately afterwards unless people felt that the company would do excellently and instead it did badly over Christmas. Logic of course has little to do with this. -- Ethan Woody Allen on Los Angeles: "I mean, who would want to live in a place where the only cultural advantage is that you can turn right on a red light?"
pashdown@javelin.es.com (Pete Ashdown) (11/28/90)
monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) writes: > Iran was predictable in it's take over of Kuwait??? A lot of people ^^^^ > Lets get some facts straight! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > was hovering around $7-$8 a share, when the Iran crisis broke the whole ^^^^ Monty, I hate to be the one to inform you, but its IRAQ that invaded Kuwait. I wouldn't have mentioned this, but this is the second message from you that talked about the "Iran Crisis." > Have a nice day, You too. > Monty Saine -- / (Rotate head 90 degrees for full effect) | BUNGEEEEEEEE! |---------------------------------------------------------------------->=<o \ Pete Ashdown pashdown@javelin.es.com ...orca.es.com!javelin!pashdown
hunter@phoenix.pub.uu.oz.au (James Gardiner [hunter]) (11/28/90)
In <1990Nov21.222141.17188@IRO.UMontreal.CA> martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Daniel Martin) writes: > They simply base their decision on money. As I heard (rumors...) >NeXT went to Lotus maker's with a little check, and asked for the port. > I heard that Commodore recently discovered this technique... >(rumors...) :-) > Daniel. >-- > // Daniel Martin Universite de Montreal \\ > // MediaLab, ca vous regarde! C.P. 6128, Succursale A, \\ >\\// Mail: martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA Montreal (Quebec), CANADA, \\// > \/ Tel.: (514) 343-6111 poste 3494 H3C 3J7 \/ not a rumor.. IBM RISK series. From what I have heard, IBM are forking out millions just to get programs ported to there NEW power BOX. It is also known that the prices they are paying for this are VERY HIGH as AIX is suppose to be a DOG. Hunter -- James Gardiner. System Admin, Public Access UNIX Melbourne, Australia DON'T TRUST THE MAIL HEADER! Use the path OR the following : SMART address : labtam!eyrie!phoenix!hunter@munnari.oz.au DUMB address : ...!uunet!munnari!labtam!eyrie!phoenix!hunter
monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) (11/28/90)
>> Iran was predictable in it's take over of Kuwait??? A lot of people
^^^^
Thank you to all that pointed out my slip here. We all know Iraq is
the present pain. Just a slight typo.
Monty Sainezerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) (11/29/90)
In article <1990Nov28.093513.1405@phoenix.pub.uu.oz.au> hunter@phoenix.pub.uu.oz.au (James Gardiner [hunter]) writes: >In <1990Nov21.222141.17188@IRO.UMontreal.CA> martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Daniel Martin) writes: > >> They simply base their decision on money. As I heard (rumors...) >>NeXT went to Lotus maker's with a little check, and asked for the port. > >> I heard that Commodore recently discovered this technique... >>(rumors...) :-) > > >not a rumor.. IBM RISK series. From what I have heard, IBM are forking out >millions just to get programs ported to there NEW power BOX. >It is also known that the prices they are paying for this are VERY HIGH >as AIX is suppose to be a DOG. That's funny. I was under the impressions that the new PowerStations run (dramatic pause) NextStep. After all, IBM did licence it from NeXT. They have to do SOMETHING with it.... So (to get back to Amigas), who says Commodore is doing something (other than excellent developer support, to throw a bone to you CATS guys) to encourage development for the Amiga? I would like to "encourage" WordPerfect Corp. to release an update, so things work more smoothly on my 3000. Encouragement would preferably be in the form of the application of a blunt instrument. Of course, I do appreciate the Amiga port in the first place. I just wish it would work better under 2.0. -Dan Dan Zerkle zerkle@iris.eecs.ucdavis.edu (916) 754-0240 Amiga... Because life is too short for boring computers.
jdutka@starbird.WPI.EDU (John Dutka) (11/29/90)
In article <958@sagpd1.UUCP>, monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine) writes: |> >> Iran was predictable in it's take over of Kuwait??? A lot of people |> Thank you to all that pointed out my slip here. We all know Iraq is |> the present pain. Just a slight typo. What does this have to do with the 2 millionth Amiga being sold? -- | husc6!m2c!wpi!jdutka | "Hey, baby - wanna do some HEAT TRANSFER? | | jdutka@wpi.wpi.edu | Heh, heh, heh!" | | John Dutka, Jr. | -Mechanical Engineers On The Prowl | | jdutka%wpi.wpi.edu%mitvma.bitnet __________________________________________|
steve@digibd.com (Steve Wahl) (11/30/90)
In article <1990Nov19.054642.20169@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <1990Nov19.132121.373@darwin.ntu.edu.au> caldwell_m@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes: >>In article <46200145@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, jhc00614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >>> The only thing that's disappointing, is that I've heard 3/4 of the sales >>> were in Europe. (Is this pretty close to the figures?) >>> Jason >>I find Americans with this kind of attitude a pain. Are people who buy >>amigas but are not from the US second class or something? > You don't understand WHY it bothers us that 3/4 are in >Europe. In America the Amiga is considered a joke by most >"business/professional" people. Most people don't know Commodore >makes any professional machines and most think that Commodore is >going bankrupt. That won't change unless CBM can start selling >more machines in this country. When we see 3/4 of all sales in >Europe we worry that Commodore will treat people from the US as >second class by giving up on this country. > -- Ethan (Please - I don't want a flame war, I just want to comment) And I wish to point out, as someone who previouslty owned an Atari ST, that Atari seemed to have given up on the US for a year or two, and all of their new introductions happened in Europe long before they happened in the US. (The STe, with the 4096 color palette, comes to mind here; I think the Stacy (portable) was out for quite some time in Europe before being available in the US also). This was in the comp.sys.atari.st discussion for quite some time. For some of us it's not an unfounded fear. Of course, it would make us all happy campers if products were introduced simultaneously throughout the world! CBM has some delays, but at least they don't seem to approach a year. --> Steve -- Steve Wahl steve@digibd.com DigiBoard Inc. St. Louis Park, MN (612) 922-8055
cy0q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Chad O. Yoshikawa) (12/02/90)
I think jason just meant(like I mean) that the Amiga force in Europe is where it should be, but the U.S. still hasn't caught up yet. We are lacking in numbers here in the u.s. obviuosly, and we need to make more people aware of the possibilities of the Amiga. I think CDTV is going to be a great publicity boost here in the US. chad
jonka@microsoft.UUCP (Jonathan KAGLE) (12/04/90)
In article <1990Nov21.222141.17188@IRO.UMontreal.CA> martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Daniel Martin) writes: >NeXT went to Lotus maker's with a little check, and asked for the port. > > I heard that Commodore recently discovered this technique... >(rumors...) :-) Let's hope not. Atari bought Microsoft Write for the ST and it has had virtually no impact on the marketplace. About ten years ago, Radio Shack paid big bucks (I seem to remember $100,000) to get VisiCalc on the TRS-80, and it lost money on the deal. -Jonathan
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (12/05/90)
hunter@phoenix.pub.uu.oz.au (James Gardiner [hunter]) writes: |not a rumor.. IBM RISK series. From what I have heard, IBM are forking out |millions just to get programs ported to there NEW power BOX. |It is also known that the prices they are paying for this are VERY HIGH |as AIX is suppose to be a DOG. IBM needs a windowing system under AIX (pronounce it). They should call it PAINs. (double pun) :-) -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash