S36666WB%ETSUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu (Brian Wright) (12/07/90)
Hello,
I posted a questionnaire concerning CanDo and it's uses. I have been
really backlogged with school work and haven't had time to edit and compile
the responses until just recently. I am now posting the results to the net
for you to do with as you wish. I am quite interested with some of the
reponses that I received. I hope that you will be too. Thanks to everyone
who participated.
-----------------------Poll Follows-------------------------------------
From: versatc!intersil!hamilton@apple.com
Apparently-To: ricevm1.rice.edu!s36666wb%etsuacad.bitnet
> 1) What do you use CanDo for?
Lots of things. I used it to write a floppy disk cataloging system/database
that allows me to type in part of a filename and it will tell me what particular
disk (of the >200 that I have) that file is on. A friend of mine has written
a CanDo application that puts a neat little NeXT style clock/calendar on the
WB screen. You can do **so much**!
>
> 2) What are it's downfalls? Where does it excel?
Downfalls: No floating point math.
No requesters.
No "dynamic" adding, removing, or moving of gadgets
The multi-level interface can get to be a drag once you get good
Pluses: Everything else! It's a really different "language" because you
find yourself developing the user interface first, then writing
the code (which is usually quite easy after you've designed the
interface). Program's (USEFUL programs) just sort of happen!
AREXX
>
> 3) Do you use it often?
Yes.
> 4) Do you use it for writing programs or just prototyping?
Writing programs. You always think you're prototyping, but once you're done
it usually works well and fast enough that it's not worth the effort to
port it to another language. This may change if they release a CanDo > C
translator, which I understand they are thinking about. It would be quite
popular.
> 5) What is missing from CanDo that you would like to see added, besides
> arrays and floating point?
The option to edit the entire program as one long file, getting rid of all
those damn menu levels. Requesters. See number 2.
> 6) Would you like a better script editor? Or do you like the one that
> is there?
The one that's there is barely adequate. It needs cutting and pasting ability
at a minimum, although thankfully Snap seems to work on my 3000.
> 7) Would you prefer CanDo to do More or Less for you?
It's about the right balance as-is. I can always live with more powerful
commands, but over-all the balance is good.
> 8) Do you use it for educational purposes?
Just self-education.
> 9) Please list any additional comments you might have about CanDo here.
It's a good deal. It would be a _great_ replacement for AmigaBasic...
>Please send ALL replies in E-Mail as I don't really have the time to look
>for this thread as well as it just wastes space for my mail. I will post the
>results if I get enough responses. Thanks for your time.
--
Fred Hamilton Any views, comments, or ideas expressed here
Harris Semiconductor are entirely my own. Even good ones.
Santa Clara, CA
======================================================================== 189
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 90 13:38:34 CST
From: boi@richsun.cpg.trs.reuter.com (Ken Boi)
Message-Id: <9011161938.AA14310@richsun.cpg.trs.reuter.com>
To: s36666wb@etsuacad.etsu.edu
To Brian Wright,
> 1) What do you use CanDo for?
I purchased CanDo about a year ago. After getting familiar with the program, I
created a synthesizer editor. The CanDo based editor allows altering of various
synth parameters via gadgets and buttons. As a parameter is modified, the new
parameter data is sent via the serial MIDI port to the synth, thus affecting
the sound. The MIDI communications also works in the opposite direction. That
is, receiving data from the synth (e.g. when requesting the original synth
patch data to be edited). My intentions were to create a computer based
editor which was to have a graphical user interface. Something which could be
done almost entirely with the mouse. I believe I was successful in my endeavor
for the most part. Just a sidenote, I entered my editor application in the CanDo
applications contest which recently ended, and was one of the first place
finalists (CanDo now owns my application).
Outside of this application, I have not used it for anything in particular other
than toying around with creating application launch buttons on the Workbench
screen. My endeavors lately haven't involved any development projects.
> 2) What are it's downfalls? Where does it excel?
EXCELS
------
CanDo allows the non-Amiga programmer to quickly begin making applications
personalized to his/her usage. Myself, I can program in C, Pascal, assembler,
and even Basic, but I haven't acquired the time and patience as yet to
successfully program the graphic capabilities of the Amiga using any of these
languages. When I decided to create my synth editor, I realized I could develop
this project by utilizing a package such as CanDo which would (transparent to me
perform all the Amiga graphic routines. All I needed to do, was write the
application specific scripts. That is why I chose CanDo. Anyone with knowledge
of even a simple Basic language, could successfully write applications with CanD
and these applications can achieve considerable quality in their graphical appea
and in their sophistication of what the program is intended to do. Having a
script language built in is an important feature of the CanDo product. And their
script language is fairly powerful and complete. To summarize, I feel that CanDO
is a development tool which provides a happy medium for the casual Amiga program
to create more than simple applications, and allows them to do this with a relat
basic understanding of the Amiga computer itself. It also provides a powerful en
script language to allow applications to be writen which are no longer considere
just simple programs. Granted the advanced developer will eventually go on to
learn an established programming language (e.g. C, assembler) which will further
their application's complexity and abilities, but until they can acquire these
skills, CanDo allows a fairly quick way to begin developing good applications.
DOWNFALLS
---------
The programs slowness in getting around the various editors.
The CanDo library size which must be integrated with if making it available to
non-CanDo owners.
No decimal number support.
No MIDI library.
No multiple active screen ability.
> 3) Do you use it often?
No, I can't say I use it often. The project I mentioned above took about 3 month
and I really haven't had any other need to use it. I will use it if the need
arises, but lately my efforts on the Amiga have been concentrated on music
creation.
> 4) Do you use it for writing programs or just prototyping?
One thing I did learn from my project, is that developer tools programs do have
limitations. There is probably no substitute for creating an application using
lower level language (NOTE: I am referring to languages such as C and Basic as
lower level here. Lower level relative to CanDo that is, which I consider a high
level developer interface.) My program works pretty well, but I did run into som
limitations with CanDo that I would not have if I programmed the application
directly with a language such as 'C'. I also would expect my memory usage to hav
been much more efficient and the application speed to have been much faster if
written directly with a compiled type language. These are realizations I discove
after getting pretty far into my project. But I must refer back to my previous
comments in that CanDo allowed me to start my project immediately with a small
learning curve. If I were to have programmed my project in 'C', I may still not
done because of the learning curve deficiency of learning how to program Amiga
graphics. I did realize when I was finished, that I did have an excellent
prototype for an application which could really benefit from being written
in 'C' (I will have to pick a new application though because of the
ownership situation). A CanDo project provides all the screen coordinates
for all the various buttons and selectors. This info would greatly simplify a po
to an established programming language. All the screen graphics are also useable
> 5) What is missing from CanDo that you would like to see added, besides
> arrays and floating point?
Definitely floating point. This was an obstacle for me. A MIDI interface would
be great. I had to perform all my MIDI communications via the DOS command
statement. I wrote a 'C' program which did the actual MIDI interfacing, and this
program was launched via the DOS command, passing the parameter data as command
line arguments. It actually is quite fast, but is an additional hassle to mainta
I realize CanDo supports AREXX, and this probably would have been the preferred
method of handling this communication link, but again, I was presented with
another learning curve situation as I don't know AREXX.
I haven't used the program in a while so I am going by memory. If I am wrong her
then ignore me. In the button editor, the buttons are presented in a list in the
order they are presented on screen. There needs to be a quicker way to move the
button list around. If I recall, if a selected button is to be moved up or down
the list, you had to manually move it one place at a time. A quick move feature
is needed (e.g. move the 12th button in the list to position 32). I had many a p
evening of moving the buttons around the list because I needed a certain hierarc
of button placement, as well as for keeping functionally similar buttons togethe
for the developer's sanity.
The speed of the button editor is also incredibly slow when you start getting
a lot of buttons (i.e. I would guess over 20. I had a lot, maybe close to 100).
I have become a very patient person as the result of using CanDo with my applica
> 6) Would you like a better script editor? Or do you like the one that
I would have liked an option to develop scripts via an editor of my choice, and
import them into the application. I prefer 'vi' and could have written scripts
faster this way. I am in no way advocating getting rid of the current script
editor. This is still needed for the novice. But the advanced user could probabl
gain by having some built-in flexibility with interfacing to other development
tools.
> 7) Would you prefer CanDo to do More or Less for you?
Definitely more, but only if the CanDo library is not expanded too drastically.
The overhead of a 100K library is unfortunate. I hate too make it too much large
unless the added features are definitely considered advantageous to all users.
> 8) Do you use it for educational purposes?
No.
> 9) Please list any additional comments you might have about CanDo here.
>
> Please send ALL replies in E-Mail as I don't really have the time to look
> for this thread as well as it just wastes space for my mail. I will post the
> results if I get enough responses. Thanks for your time.
... Ken Boi
========================================================================
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 90 22:35:56 +0200
From: anthes@geocub.greco-prog.fr (Franklin Anthes)
To: S36666WB%ETSUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu
> 1) What do you use CanDo for?
1 - Writing educational software
> 2) What are it's downfalls? Where does it excel?
2 - Bad user interface, no shortcuts for power users
Problems with keyboard input:
. doesn't work with keymaps
. doesn't accept punctuation (,; etc.
. doesn't accept list of keys for same object
. can't specify letter indepedant of case
(have A and a perform same action)
frequent crashes after using large fonts (ones that don't
fit entirely within the font requesters display)
Memory management problems
WB screen comes to front after a ShowPic
Impossible to disable an object in the BeforeStartup script
ShowPic flickers even if the palettes are the same.
No fades etc. between cards or pictures
> 3) Do you use it often?
3 - Yes
> 4) Do you use it for writing programs or just prototyping?
4 - See 1
> 5) What is missing from CanDo that you would like to see added, besides
> arrays and floating point?
5 - Graphics operations on bitmaps which aren't currently displayed,
AREXX to control CanDo
> 6) Would you like a better script editor? Or do you like the one that
> is there?
6 - Yes a better editor would be nice
> 7) Would you prefer CanDo to do More or Less for you?
7 -
> 8) Do you use it for educational purposes?
8 - See 1
FRANKLIN ANTHES
======================================================================
To: S36666WB%ETSUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu
Subject: Re: Unofficial CanDo Poll..
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Organization: Concordia University, Montreal Quebec
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 90 19:13:02 EST
From: stefan@concour.cs.concordia.ca
In article <36434@nigel.ee.udel.edu> you write:
>Hello,
>
> I am gathering information on CanDo owners. If you own CanDo please
>respond to this questionaire in email to s36666wb@etsuacad.etsu.edu.
>
> 1) What do you use CanDo for?
I used it here to build an interface which eliminates the workbench and makes
our lab more useful and friendly. It doeas everything (really!) including launch
applications, accept suggestions and many dos utilities...
>
> 2) What are it's downfalls? Where does it excel?
Menus are great but SLOW! Downfalls: slow, becomes criptic. Does not support spe
EXCEL: compiles! great animbrush support. Dos friendly!
>
> 3) Do you use it often?
I did...
> 4) Do you use it for writing programs or just prototyping?
Implementation, no time for prototyping...
>
> 5) What is missing from CanDo that you would like to see added, besides
> arrays and floating point?
Those are the two biggies... Otherwise, more "buttons" which write script such
as a speak: button, an animbrush loader and placer etc.. button. I would like to
see the menus and panels move much more quickly...
>
> 6) Would you like a better script editor? Or do you like the one that
> is there?
It's good the way it is. Multiple document editing would be nice. Use the
clipboard!
>
> 7) Would you prefer CanDo to do More or Less for you?
More more more! Just do it more quickly...Maybe a hierachy of buttons on the rig
would eliminate the clutter of xtra buttons (in the script-writing mode)
> 9) Please list any additional comments you might have about CanDo here.
>
Cando was incredible when it first came out. It still is, however AmigaVision ha
many things above it (and vice versa OC). Support DBF files! Include direct supp
for laserdiscs (Pioneer).
Cando is wonderful. Oh yes, include supprt for 881/2 co pros...
*******************************************************************************
* Stefan Buchholz * stefan@concour.cs.concordia.ca * a.k.a Stefy LePew *
* Sys.Adm. of MITE Avista, the ultimate multimedia environment *
* "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"... new user in the MITE lab. *
*******************************************************************************
========================================================================
From: (Steve Southgate) <sgate@STSCI.EDU>
To: S36666WB%ETSUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu
Subject: Re: Unofficial CanDo Poll..
S36666WB%ETSUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu:
> Hello,
>
> I am gathering information on CanDo owners. If you own CanDo please
> respond to this questionaire in email to s36666wb@etsuacad.etsu.edu.
>
> 1) What do you use CanDo for?
Still experimenting. Probably as front ends to AREXX applications.
> 2) What are it's downfalls? Where does it excel?
Menu interface is time consuming. Ability to create windows, requesters
seems good.
Ability to generate stand-alone applications a big plus.
> 3) Do you use it often?
Not yet.
> 5) What is missing from CanDo that you would like to see added, besides
> arrays and floating point?
Indexed file support (is it already in there?)
> 6) Would you like a better script editor? Or do you like the one that
> is there?
I would like to know if there is a way to just write scripts and avoid
the screen/button interface.
> 7) Would you prefer CanDo to do More or Less for you?
See 6.
> 9) Please list any additional comments you might have about CanDo here.
>
Good product. Stable. Good interface, but needs a short-cut method of
scripting for those who become proficient.
========================================================================
From: Donald Sheythe <dsheythe@u.washington.edu>
To: S36666WB%ETSUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu
Subject: Re: Unofficial CanDo Poll..
all i've got is cando gripes:
cando is way too slow!!!! Even the slightest change takes over a minute.
It's nowhere near interactive enough to be fun.
It's frustrating to use, especially for the beginner.
In its current form, its a real Can-dog.
I think it needs a heavy duty dose of spit and polish.
--
Don Sheythe
dsheythe@u.washington.edu