91_bickingd@GAR.UNION.EDU ("Bicking, David") (12/03/90)
Date sent: 2-DEC-1990 15:55:52 > >In a previous article, Robert Huebner writes a series of idiotic comments: >> Of course, we all know "NeXT Guru" is synonymous with "Computer Geek" >He sound like a geek himself. You both sound like children. But everyone is entitled, I know I do it. :} >4 megs is obviously not enough. Naturally, everybody is going to want to >go through the trouble of getting mail-order memory. Why doesn't Commodore >just sell it with enough memory without putting a mark-up on the memory? Grow up, both of you. C= Markets an 8-MEG A3000 UX. Get real. When has any computer company sold ram chips "at cost"? Apple makes you pay through the nose! I think it is wise to offer the option of getting a lower-mem config so the user can decide what (s)he wants. > >> Also the A3000 has a fast hard disk (especially when compared to the >> dreaded floptical drive) which make an excellent swap space. (Does the > >What does he have against NeXT? Almost nobody uses a NeXT optical drive for >swap space. They all have hard drives. The optical drive is not slow, esp. Um, first of all, he was responding to YOUR comparison of the Amiga and the NeXT. Naturally, he's going to respond in the same framework. Next, from what I have gathered, only the NEW NeXT computers come with a regular HD, as the Opticals turned out to be a flop (at least that is what I gathered from comp.sys.next). >when compared to a floppy. Running a NeXT with only an optical drive is >very possible. I have a cube with 12megs ram and only optical, and I have >far better performance than my Amiga with 2 floppies. Yeah, yeah. I have an A500 w/2 floppys, and it has far better performance than a MAC with a cassette tape drive.... get the point? >> Recent specs released regarding this A2410 would certainly indicate >> that it can compete. 1024 x 1024 x 256 is definitely workstation quality. >> Granted, this is at additonal cost (Better multisync monitor + card price) >> but I expect it to be less expensive than the NeXT color option. Of course > >Again, what does he have against NeXT? You can get a NeXTstation color with Again, he's comparing the two platforms in response to YOUR comparisons. >68040, 12 megs RAM, 105 meg hard drive, 16" sony color monitor for $5700 edu. >(due in early 1991). If amiga is selling their cheapest '030 Unix system for >$4000, how can you possibly get a ~$2000 color monitor (such as the one with ^^^^ If I remember correctly, the $4000 is RETAIL. Also, the A3000 has the advantage of ALSO having a real-time OS, a software platform of its own, all sorts of interesting expansion options, FUN GAMES...... >> |> video than either of these (resolution-wise). 200 Megs of bundled >> |> software that neither of these can touch. $3,500. Add $750 for >> What so special about the bundled software? Half of it is PD or developer- >> oriented stuff (so is every NeXT buyer a NeXT developer?) and the other > >The bundled software includes a word processor, mathematica, a librarian >program, a good text editor, a dictionary, a thesaurus, an excellent >programming environment (Interface Builder), and lots of really interesting >developer software such as a ray tracer. A complete version of Tex, emacs, >vi, etc. is also included. Version 1.0 also includes lisp and a database >program (Sybase) that is unbundled in 2.0. That is pretty nice. What does AT&T SysV.4 come with? "Interface builder"? Is that something like Intuition? BTW, although they aren't bundled, everything you described is available on the Amiga as PD. Perhaps it would be a good idea for C= to collect a few and put them out with their amigas? That would be relatively cheep, and would encourage lots of PD development. > >What's Mr. Huebner's problem? Mathematica is really incredible (it takes some >time to understand it, though). They are using Mathematica on macintoshes >in the math department here. He probably is going to rave about Maple when >it's released for the Amiga. Having the dictionary always available is very BZZZZZT. Maple has been available for the Amiga for quite some time, tho we are currently awaiting a NEW version. I hear it is increadible. I also hear rumors that Mathmatica will be ported to the Amiga. >useful. The librarian program can access any kind of database. In addition >to having the unix man pages and the NeXT manuals, NeXT also includes the >entire works of Sheakespeare. If you can, try using a NeXT. See how quickly >it finds the word "gleek" in every Shakespeare work. This is more an example >of what can be done with the librarian program than actually of much use. >But imagine what could be done if law books or medical references were used. Oh, I see. You mean like Microfiche Filer, or AmigaVision, or.... all sorts of things available on the Amiga. Yes these ideas are nice, but NeXT doesn't have the market cornered. >> I wouldn't call it backward compatability. I think AmigaDOS has more to >> offer than most UNIX/X applications. Especially in graphics and video >> areas. A machine that only runs X-Windows/UNIX would be a real bore. > >Mr. Huebner obviously has no need to run unix. He likes AmigaDos, and is >sore that when Commodore is trying to market the amiga as a unix machine, >it is outmatched by workstations such as SUNs and NeXTs in terms of price >and performance. Excuse the following exclamation, net police: BULLSHIT. Even Byte, a rag that has long ignored and even attacked the Amiga, says the A3000UX is better than the NeXT. C= is marketing UNIX as an option, not a replacement. C= wants to capture the Federal market. The feds use Unix, therefore C= SELLS unix. Very simple, you know. But C= is targetting multimedia, too. Unix is unfit for that, but AmigaDos and WB are perfect for it, hence it remains the central focus of C=. >> of good software and support that finally seems to be arriving. I certainly >> don't want to jump ship now. The NeXT has very few NeXT-specific applications >> available and I don't think this will be improving too quickly. It sounds >> as if all the third-party support gained up to this point was purchased >> rather than earned. > >This is Mr. Huebner's problem, and it's one that is understandable. It has >been far too long overdue that the Amiga get the respect that is due. Amiga >users can get very defensive and childish about their computers because of >this. I agree with this point. Tho I try not to get childish :) > >Mr Huebner, Try being objective. Suns are very good computers. They are fast, >networkable, and are good at running windowed unix. The NeXT is similar, Take your own advice. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=- Dave Bicking Single Tasking????? Just say NO!!!! Union College Box 152 91_bickingd@union.bitnet // Schenectady, NY 12308 91_bickingd@gar.union.edu \X/ Amiga -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
new@ee.udel.edu (Darren New) (12/04/90)
In article <9012031553.AA23811@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> 91_bickingd@GAR.UNION.EDU ("Bicking, David") writes: >>The bundled software includes a word processor, mathematica, a librarian >>program, a good text editor, a dictionary, a thesaurus, an excellent >>programming environment (Interface Builder), and lots of really interesting >>developer software such as a ray tracer. >>Version 1.0 also includes lisp and a database program (Sybase) > That is pretty nice. What does AT&T SysV.4 come with? "Interface >builder"? Is that something like Intuition? BTW, although they aren't >bundled, everything you described is available on the Amiga as PD. I would be very interested to find where to get a PD digital librarian, dictionary with definitions, pronunciations, and pictures, and thesaurus for the Amiga. I would also be interested in getting a PD version of Sybase. :-) P.S., Interface builder is more like Pwerwindows than Intuition. -- Darren -- --- Darren New --- Grad Student --- CIS --- Univ. of Delaware --- ----- Network Protocols, Graphics, Programming Languages, Formal Description Techniques (esp. Estelle), Coffee, Amigas ----- =+=+=+ Let GROPE be an N-tuple where ... +=+=+=
yoo@well.sf.ca.us (Young-Kyu Yoo) (12/05/90)
91_bickingd@GAR.UNION.EDU ("Bicking, David") writes: >what I have gathered, only the NEW NeXT computers come with a regular HD, as >the Opticals turned out to be a flop (at least that is what I gathered from >comp.sys.next). The old NeXTs came in several configurations. All came with at least a 40 MB hard disk to support virtual memory (the earliest ones didn't, but NeXT gave the 40 MB disks free later to those who had purchased the early machines). The lowest configuration was with the optical, followed by the 330 MB hard disk, and then the 660 MB drive. > If I remember correctly, the $4000 is RETAIL [for the Amiga 3000ux]. I believe it's educational pricing. The NeXT is $3000-$3500 for educational buyers. >A3000 has the >advantage of ALSO having a real-time OS, a software platform of its own, all >sorts of interesting expansion options, FUN GAMES...... The Amiga 3000ux, with Unix, will probably not be real-time. Correct me if I'm wrong. The NeXT is the best software development platform around, bar none (no correction needed). Of course, there is more Amiga software than NeXT software, but much of that Amiga software is "FUN GAMES." NeXT now has Lotus, Ashton-Tate, Informix, Oracle, Sybase and others developing high-powered business software for their machine. I don't think those companies have much of a presence on the Amiga. >"Interface Builder"? Is that something like Intuition? Don't know anything about Intuition, but Interface Builder is what won NeXTStep the honor of best software of the year from the software developer community (a minority of which are NeXT software developers). It is what makes NeXT the great software development environment that it is. >> >>What's Mr. Huebner's problem? Mathematica is really incredible (it takes some >>time to understand it, though). They are using Mathematica on macintoshes >>in the math department here. He probably is going to rave about Maple when >>it's released for the Amiga. Having the dictionary always available is very >BZZZZZT. Maple has been available for the Amiga for quite some time, tho we >are currently awaiting a NEW version. I hear it is increadible. I also hear >rumors that Mathmatica will be ported to the Amiga. Does Maple come free with your Amiga? Mathematica comes free with the NeXT. (it used to come free with EVERY NeXT, now it comes free with every NeXT bought by educational customers). [in reference to Digital Librarian on the NeXT] >Oh, I see. You mean like Microfiche Filer, or AmigaVision, or.... all sorts of >things available on the Amiga. Yes these ideas are nice, but NeXT doesn't have >the market cornered. Are Microfiche Filer or AmigaVision free with your Amiga? The Digital Librarian comes standard with every NeXT. > Even Byte, a rag that >has long ignored and even attacked the Amiga, says the A3000UX is better than >the NeXT. I chatted to Ben Smith, the author of that Byte article, and he admits that he was referring to the old, out-of-production NeXTs. The new NeXTs are shipping. Ben, by the way, has a history of negative commentary about the NeXT in Byte. You should see a correction of his comments concerning the NeXT and Amiga in an upcoming issue.
lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) (12/06/90)
In <21966@well.sf.ca.us>, yoo@well.sf.ca.us (Young-Kyu Yoo) writes: > >I chatted to Ben Smith, the author of that Byte article, and he admits that >he was referring to the old, out-of-production NeXTs. The new NeXTs are >shipping. Ben, by the way, has a history of negative commentary about the >NeXT in Byte. You should see a correction of his comments concerning >the NeXT and Amiga in an upcoming issue. Oh, so he was comapring a 68030 based machine to a 68030 based machine? That will never do. Byte must be really choked about that. All Amigas must be compared to 68040 or '486 machines, or SPARCs, of course. -larry -- The only things to survive a nuclear war will be cockroaches and IBM PCs. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | // Larry Phillips | | \X/ lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca -or- uunet!van-bc!lpami!lphillips | | COMPUSERVE: 76703,4322 -or- 76703.4322@compuserve.com | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
perley@galaxy (Donald P Perley) (12/06/90)
In article <21966@well.sf.ca.us>, yoo@well (Young-Kyu Yoo) writes: > >>A3000 has the >>advantage of ALSO having a real-time OS, a software platform of its own, all >>sorts of interesting expansion options, FUN GAMES...... > >The Amiga 3000ux, with Unix, will probably not be real-time. Correct me if >I'm wrong. You are wrong to the extent that you are saying the previous poster is wrong. You get the real-time (a loaded phrase, I admit) in addition to UNIX. You played the old politician's trick of issueing a rebuttal to what you WISH the other person had said. > The NeXT is the best software development platform around, bar >none (no correction needed). A lot of Symbolics (or similar computers) users would correct you. > >Are Microfiche Filer or AmigaVision free with your Amiga? The Digital >Librarian comes standard with every NeXT. AmigaVision is. perley@trub.crd.ge.com
mwm@fenris.relay.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (12/07/90)
In article <2344@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca> lphillips@lpami.wimsey.bc.ca (Larry Phillips) writes:
Oh, so he was comapring a 68030 based machine to a 68030 based machine? That
will never do. Byte must be really choked about that. All Amigas must be
compared to 68040 or '486 machines, or SPARCs, of course.
Larry - it's called "handicapping." It's a technic used to make a
contest interesting when one side has such an overwhelming advantage
that an "even" contest would be no contest.
<mike
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