bartonr@jove.cs.pdx.edu (Robert Barton) (01/09/90)
tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (HIM) writes: >I am more inpressed with the elegance of the solution the more I reflect on it. > In addition , th info in the article is sufficienbt that I have already > begun an output converter for 24bit Progressive Peripherials Framegrabber > files to the new IFF format. I didn't see any mention of a new IFF format. They claimed that it was IFF-compatible; presumably they actually meant to say ILBM-compatible. From the description given however this is not the case. Using parts of the BODY chunk for purposes other than bit-plane data makes it incompatible.
chris@genly.UUCP (Chris Hind Genly) (09/17/90)
I'm posting this for Ben Williams of Black Belt Systems. He doesn't
have direct access to USENET. I'd be glad to forward replies.
* * *
\|/
* _______ --O--
____/ KC1VP \____ * /|\
* _____________/ (203) 389-8680 \_______________
______/ 95 Fountain Terr., New Haven, CT, USA, 06515 \_______
/ Chris Hind Genly chris@genly.uucp uunet!hsi!genly!chris \
----------------------------------------------------------------
==================================================================
From Ben Williams, VP Engineering, Black Belt Systems.
==================================================================
--- Replies to various messages that have floated thru the net recently ---
I've seen some recent UseNET msgs that describe the HAM-E device in a
most confused manner - one message requested:
>If anyone has definite information on these new video enhancement products,
>please set the net.record straight.
Ok, I have definitive information on the HAM-E. I designed it, I
should. :^)
Data Source
-----------
The HAM-E does indeed work by taking pairs of hi-res pixels from a 4
bitplane screen, and building an 8 bit pixel from these. This provides
up to 384 pixels per line of 8 bit data.
Mode 1
------
One way the HAM-E uses this data is to address 256 24-bit color
registers. This provides a pure 256 color mode, with a 16 million color
palette. Not too much to discuss or explain here.
Mode 2
------
The other way the HAM-E uses this data is to interpret it as a HAM
image. This has been designed to be quite different from the Amiga's
native HAM mode in capacity, but is similar to it most ways as far as
concepts go. The Amiga's HAM mode works with a 6 bit word; 2 bits are
used to control operations, and 4 for data. The 4 data bits can either
pick a color register, which loads the 12 bits in the color register
right to the RGB guns, or they can load into any ONE of the three RGB
guns, updating 4 of the 12 bits being output for any one pixel. With 12
total output bits, you get 4,096 colors.
The HAM-E, as I pointed out, has an 8 bit word, not a 6 bit word. We
use the most significant 2 bits for control, as the Amiga HAM mode
does. That leaves us SIX data bits. In the simplest case, you could
choose either any one of 64 color registers to load the RGB all at
once, or you could load 6 bits of data for any ONE of the RGB guns. The
total output resolution in mode 2 for the HAM-E is 18 bits 6:6:6, as
compared to the Amiga's 4:4:4, which allows 262,144 colors.
Since there are far more than the Amiga's 16 color registers, fringing
effects can be reduced way below what is "normal" for an Amiga HAM
image. And since there are far more colors, image contouring (banding)
problems go away, as does the need to dither.
Our mode 2 is a little more complicated than this explanation would
show, however. Although the obvious thing would be to allow you to
choose 1 of 64 color registers when the control bits say load register
(00, by the way - same as the Amiga), we don't (exactly) do that. If
you specify registers 0-59, that's what you get. A register. If you
specify 60, NO color change occurs for that pixel, instead the hardware
changes to a new BANK of registers (bank 0). Similarly, the values 61,
62 and 63 cause an immediate switch to banks 1, 2 and 3. There is no
extra system overhead incurred for the bank switch, but the pixel where
it occurs does hold all three of RGB values right thru. The end result
is that you can HAM (Hold-And-Modify) to a quarter million colors, and
you can use up to 240 registers (4 banks of 0-59) to "fix-up" any
fringing errors that occur. There are even some more things you can do,
but this describes the mode pretty well.
Modes for the modes (so to speak)
---------------------------------
The above two modes can be displayed as 320x200, 320x400, and with
either dimension as full overscan (up to 384x and 480/240y). On a PAL
machine, the overscan length is longer than 480/240, of course.
System compatibility
--------------------
The HAM-E plugs into your main 23 pin RGB port. There is another 23 pin
RGB port on it as the output, and you plug your monitor in there. When
either one of the HAM-E modes are operating, that's what you see. The
new mode screens pull up and and down, and can overlap and underlap
"normal" Amiga screens. All output is pure RGB, all the time. In short,
attaching the hardware gets you 2 new video modes, and does not
interfere with the operation of your system. Our system is 100%
compatible with PAL machines, too. it works with every Amiga made,
including (as of 2 weeks ago when we checked at CBM West Chester) CDTV,
the new "Baby". We only attach to the RGB port; DCTV attaches to both
your parallel port and the RGB port. Then again, if you want to
digitize, DigiView attaches to the parallel port, so there you go.
Although I hasten to point out that you can use any digitizer that
makes 24 bit files with the system... it doesn't have to be digiview.
The new ECS do NOT confuse the HAM-E hardware.
Genlocking
----------
The HAM-E should operate with any NTSC or PAL genlock with no problems,
both the two new modes, and all your "old" ones. Every signal that is
available on the Amiga's DB-23 connector is available on ours except
for the IRGB lines. For you genlock techies, we only watch the
composite sync line, so vsync and hsync signal manipulation by the
genlock don't affect our operation at all.
The HAM-E provides a genlock signal whenever color register 1 or color
register zero is being displayed. In english, this means that both
register zero and register one are transparent during genlock operation.
Supplied software
-----------------
We provide free with the system a real-time paint program (if it wasn't
real-time, it'd be pretty useless, we think), with features that are
similar to DPaint for the most part although some things are much more
powerful than those equivalant features in DPaint. We do real-time
blitted brushes, with Matte, Color, and Cycle capability; We provide
true ZOOM, as well as brush enlarge; We allow up to 10 color cycle
ranges instead of four, and they can be up to 256 registers long
(naturally). We allow a color cycle range to "pong", that is, bounce
back and forth. We have "glow" ranges, where a single color register is
cycled thru a list of up to 256 colors. We handle stencils, various
neat brush manipulations, color remapping, loading of all kinds of
"regular" Amiga images (DigiPaint ham, Photon ham, 24 bit RGB IFF, 2-32
color IFF, 64 color 1/2 bright IFF, RGB8 Impulse images) so that you
can incorporate them into your paintings; We have spare screens, undo,
stencils with range set, clear, and flip; Et-et-et-cetera. :^)
We also provide a renderer that can take a 24 bit file, data directly
from memory, or the buffers inside DigiView 4.0 while it is still
running and render to 256 colors or 256k colors. The renderer allows
you to specify that a certain number of registers be used so you have
some left to paint with; it allows an "NTSC limit" setting so that
images don't overdrive composite encoder systems; and there are six
_really_ different rendering techniques available.
Keen Developer Info
-------------------
You can call the renderer from within any application and use ANY of
it's features in your new whiz-bang render-gender-ware by simply
passing it the addresses of your internal RGB buffers and the
appropriate command line switches. If your application provides ARexx
(it should!) then commands to export the addresses of the RGB buffers
and the X:Y resolution of them are all you need for 100% support for
the HAM-E device. Since we provide the source code to the renderer, you
can just incorporate that if you like, but it's more reasonable to call
the renderer itself, that way you get the advantages of any
improvements we might bring out, or others might add, considering they
have the source code...
Looky here...
-------------
To cap things off, we provide the complete source code for both the
paint and the render software in Lattice C (Well, SAS C, now...). It's
available on our company BBS, which is an open system. Now there is
something you've not seen before, eh? :^)
Cost
----
The HAM-E is $299.95, including paint software, render software,
free software source code, and free updates to the paint software
indefinitely. You get everything you need to run.
DCTV vs. HAM-E
--------------
I saw a great deal of mention of DCTV, and some lines like:
>I'd like to see Ham-E too. But I think it is a bit more limited and I
>don't think it is a digitizer...
Right, no digitizer. You can use DigiView, which will give you true 18
bit resolution when used with the HAM-E. The DCTV digitizer is an NTSC
only, composite digitizer. That means you get all the features
composite offers, such as blurry reds and _very_ blurry blues. Using
DigiView with HAM-E, you've digitized an RGB image to an RGB system, as
opposed to a composite source image (yech) to a composite output system.
DCTV includes a digitizer, and is 500$ retail. You can add another 100$
is you want to see the output on your RGB monitor or genlock. $600
list. The HAM-E + Digiview will cost you around $400.00, and you can get
RGB images instead of composite. Should you NEED composite, you can
attach a composite encoder, like the VIP from DigiFEX, and there you
have it.
Real time performance. DCTV can animate frames, flipping pages. We can
animate frames too, but we are always 4 bitplanes, they (at reduced
resolution) can use 3 - that seems to give them a speed advantage.
However, we can animate regions, as our encoding is a lot more local
than composite compression is, and we can do color register animation,
which they can't do at all - which has very little overhead. So both
systems can animate, the HAM-E has more options as to HOW you want to
animate.
Output from the HAM-E uses your current monitor, HAM-E screens work in
your system just as you'd want them to. Output from DCTV is composite
unless you buy the extra $100 thingee. Which means (a) you buy another
monitor, or (b) you press the monitor switch, assuming that you have a
monitor that can display composite and NTSC, as many can.
About 24 bit claims
-------------------
Y'all might want to do some research on this term. It's getting thrown
about with some pretty wild abandon anymore. What it means is that a
system can produce 256 levels of grey, or any primary combination, or
256 levels on any combination of all three the RGB guns of a monitor at
one time; or digitize them likewise. There are 16 million various bit
combinations, which we (usually) call colors, I'm not going to quibble with
that here. The HAM-E is 18 bits overall in mode 1, or 24 bits out of 256
colors in mode2. Let's be REAL clear about that. DCTV is not 24 bit, if
for no other reason than NTSC can't DISPLAY 24 bit data, much is lost in
the attempt. If they are 24 bits internally, so what? If you can't see it,
what's the point?
Availability and etc.
---------------------
The HAM-E is shipping now, although there is a 2-3 week wait at this
point as we've sold all we had. It's class B FCC approved, so you can
legally buy it and use it at home. The power supply is UL approved,
too. Is DCTV shipping? Is it FCC/UL approved? We don't know. You can
find out easily, just call them at (916) 344-4825, or FAX them at
(916) 635-0475.
Advertising
-----------
Right, you have not seen any Black Belt Systems ads extolling the
virtues of the HAM-E, while DCTV is in AmigaWorld big-time. We were not
willing to place any ads until we were shipping. We felt the Amiga
community had had enough of that kind of behaivoir, and we were NOT
sure enough of manufacturing, testing, software availability and so on
to place an ad before we were ready - so we didn't. We're shipping now,
and so now you'll see ads. That's all there is to it.
Who ya gonna call?
------------------
Want a brochure? Call (800) TK-AMIGA and ask for one - we'll send you
a nice color flyer. You can FAX us if you prefer at (406) 367-AFAX. and
you can get onto our BBS to D/l the C source code and/or the actual
support software at (406) 367-ABBS. If you're out of the country, you
can't reach the (800) number, so call (406) 367-5513. If you want lots
of excruciating technical details, call Tech Support at (406) 367-5509.
Some interesting lines from UseNet:
-----------------------------------
>>Isn't DCTV the box which gets 256 screen colors by intercepting a 640x400
>>16 color screen and combining each pair a pixels (4 bits each) into one
>>8-bit pixel? I know there is a box like this. In this case, all well and
>>good, you get 256 out of 16 million (I think) colors, but only in 320x400
>>(or variations... not 640 mode at any rate). This could be a
>>consideration.
............
>No it isn't. That is Ham-E you are thinking of. DCTV is a Full NTSC
>color palette frame buffer. DCTV is reliant on Amiga's chip ram for it's
>display.
Ahem. :^) The HAM-E can display a quarter of a million colors, and do
them as a MUCH sharper image than DCTV can. If you need composite, then
use an encoder with the HAM-E and you'll get the same quality NTSC
output that DCTV offers, or better. The HAM-E also relies on the
Amiga's chip ram for it's display, but uses the data there entirely
differently.
> Absolutely none of these products offer a non-interlaced display (which
>is important for most real-world applications), absolutely none of them
>will work with standard Amiga applications, like the few DTP and CAD
>programs that are available for the Amiga. To make matters much worse,
>none of them will so much as even work with the Amiga's O.S. at all.
Oh boy, is this one off the wall. Both DCTV and the HAM-E offer non-
interlaced modes. The HAM-E will work with The Director, any show
program, AmigaVision, UltraCard, Turbo Silver, Sculpt, Caligari, The
Art Department, CanDo, and virtually any program that supports the
Amiga standard of 24 bit IFF. The HAM-E works within the screen
environment, pulling up n down, moving front-back and v-v. You can
render intuition gadgets including title bars, F/B gadgets, regular
image gadgets, and more. My main beef with this sender is that the
attempt is made to sound like an authority, when in fact events show
clearly that they have NO idea what they are talking about. My mom
always told me "if you don't know what you're talking about, shut up".
I also saw the term "proprietary" mentioned on the net. Theirs is, ours
isn't. Releasing the source code to everything can hardly be regarded
as "keeping things close to the chest", now can it?
You can do some editing in DPaint for HAM-E images. Turn grid on to 2
horizontally, 1 vertically, and DPaint will help you out quite a bit.
Our pixels are unique 8 bit entities in mode 1, and even in HAM mode
respond pretty well as blocks.
There is a rather authoritatively toned message on the net from an
individual who names themself "Radagast". I'd like to request that this
message be ignored, as it contains more misinformation in one place
than I've seen in quite some time. No offense, but that message is
really all wrong.
Some of you can see this thing easily - and compare
---------------------------------------------------
We'll be at the Anahiem AmiExpo, in the booth right next to the DCTV
people, and we'd be quite pleased to show you our device where you can
look at ours, and theirs just by turning your head.
=====================================
Ben Williams, for Black Belt Systems.
=====================================huebner@aerospace.aero.org (Robert E. Huebner) (09/18/90)
In article <chris.7452@genly.UUCP> chris@genly.UUCP (Chris Hind Genly) writes: >I'm posting this for Ben Williams of Black Belt Systems. He doesn't >have direct access to USENET. I'd be glad to forward replies. [A whole lot of good, solid information deleted] >Some of you can see this thing easily - and compare >--------------------------------------------------- >We'll be at the Anahiem AmiExpo, in the booth right next to the DCTV >people, and we'd be quite pleased to show you our device where you can >look at ours, and theirs just by turning your head. Could somebody please post a date for this. I'm sure its in one of the magazines, but I don't have access to them at the moment. Also, I was glad to see such a authoritative response on the video issue, but the tone the article took was a little distressing. DCTV and HAM-E are both much needed, much appreciated products entering the Amiga market at a time when they are greatly needed. However, I don't see the advantage in flaming a competetors product on the 'net. A direct comparison chart or somesuch is great, but sarcastic comments we can do without. +---- Robert Huebner huebner@aerospace.aero.org @en.ecn.purdue.edu The Aerospace Corporation Purdue University +----
Radagast@cup.portal.com (sullivan - segall) (09/18/90)
> >Availability and etc. >--------------------- >The HAM-E is shipping now, although there is a 2-3 week wait at this >point as we've sold all we had. It's class B FCC approved, so you can >legally buy it and use it at home. The power supply is UL approved, >too. Is DCTV shipping? Is it FCC/UL approved? We don't know. You can >find out easily, just call them at (916) 344-4825, or FAX them at >(916) 635-0475. > Thanks for setting this all straight. I hadn't heard that the box had yet been shipped, but will certainly order one. (Had always planned to. Same goes for DCTV. It doesn't really matter which one is better, they really are both inexpensive enough to purchase one of each... Anyone know of a good signal splitter?) >individual who names themself "Radagast". I'd like to request that this >message be ignored, as it contains more misinformation in one place >than I've seen in quite some time. No offense, but that message is >really all wrong. > I sincerely hope I didn't lead anyone astray. Everything I posted was entirely from memory. (And I ended up getting bits of your Mode 1 mixed up with other bits of Mode 2.) Nice to know that I sound authoritative even when I post a trailer that I completely disavow any exact knowledge of either system. All in all I am very glad to see that your device is shipping. My only fear is that by giving away this thing dirt cheap you won't make enough money on it to stay in business. ;-) ...now to translate that source code to Manx... -Sullivan_-_Segall (a.k.a. Radagast) _______________________________________________________________ /V\ "I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in ' cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." -- J. Edgar Hoover _______________________________________________________________ Mail to: ...sun!portal!cup.portal.com!radagast or radagast@cup.portal.com
tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) (09/18/90)
In article <chris.7452@genly.UUCP> chris@genly.UUCP (Chris Hind Genly) writes:
-I'm posting this for Ben Williams of Black Belt Systems. He doesn't
-have direct access to USENET. I'd be glad to forward replies.
-
. Lots deleted
-Who ya gonna call?
-------------------
-Want a brochure? Call (800) TK-AMIGA and ask for one - we'll send you
-a nice color flyer. You can FAX us if you prefer at (406) 367-AFAX. and
-you can get onto our BBS to D/l the C source code and/or the actual
-support software at (406) 367-ABBS. If you're out of the country, you
-can't reach the (800) number, so call (406) 367-5513. If you want lots
-of excruciating technical details, call Tech Support at (406) 367-5509.
-
What's the FAX # in plain numbers? I don't have letters on my phone...
Tommy Petersson, calling from Swedenakk@trantor.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Andreas K. Klingler) (09/19/90)
Want a brochure? Call (800) TK-AMIGA and ask for one - we'll send you
a nice color flyer. You can FAX us if you prefer at (406) 367-AFAX. and
^^^^
Can some gentle American explain to a guy on the Old Continent how to dail
such a 'number'?
--
Andreas Klingler
akk@trantor.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
A business is no business until you have shown the revenue office
it was no businessnew@ee.udel.edu (Darren New) (09/20/90)
In article <akk.0367@trantor.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> akk@trantor.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Andreas K. Klingler) writes: >Can some gentle American explain to a guy on the Old Continent how to dail >such a 'number'? Sure. Start lettering by threes, starting with the digit 2. Skip Q and Z. Hence: ABC=2 DEF=3 GHI=4 JKL=5 MNO=6 PRS=7 TUV=8 WXY=9 Thus, AFAX is 2329. These letters have been on American phones at least for thirty years. It used to be that the first two letters would indicate the "switch" to which you were connected: My home number was EL6-5784. The "EL" was said to stand for "Elgin." I suspect it made it easier for operators to understand where you were calling? I think this started going away about 30 years ago, because when a new switch was added to my old neighborhood at about that time, we has "EL6" numbers and "353" numbers; note that "EL" == "35". Anyway, good luck on your call. -- Darren -- --- Darren New --- Grad Student --- CIS --- Univ. of Delaware --- ----- Network Protocols, Graphics, Programming Languages, Formal Description Techniques (esp. Estelle), Coffee -----
cseaman@sequent.UUCP (Chris "The Bartman" Seaman) (09/20/90)
akk@trantor.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Andreas K. Klingler) writes:
< Want a brochure? Call (800) TK-AMIGA and ask for one - we'll send you
< a nice color flyer. You can FAX us if you prefer at (406) 367-AFAX. and
< ^^^^
< Can some gentle American explain to a guy on the Old Continent how to dail
< such a 'number'?
The 'number' above would translate as:
(406) 367-2329
Please note that I am in no way affiliated with the developers of HAM-E,
I'm just a gentle American trying to help out our net.friends.
--
Chris (Insert phrase here) Seaman | /o -- -- --
cseaman@sequent.com <or> ||| -- -- - I'm Outta Here, Man!
...!uunet!sequent!cseaman |vvvv/ -- -- -
The Home of the Killer Smiley |___/ -- -- --akk@trantor.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Andy Klingler) (09/21/90)
[I was asking about the letters in a telephone number]
Thanks to all who replied. Knowing what the letters mean made dailing
*much* easier.
(now I am trying to make an intelligent word out of my own number ;-) )
--
Andreas Klingler
akk@trantor.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
A business is no business until you have shown the revenue office
it was no businesschris@genly.UUCP (Chris Hind Genly) (09/22/90)
I'm posting for Ben Williams again.
* * *
\|/
* _______ --O--
____/ KC1VP \____ * /|\
* _____________/ (203) 389-8680 \_______________
______/ 95 Fountain Terr., New Haven, CT, USA, 06515 \_______
/ Chris Hind Genly chris@genly.uucp uunet!hsi!genly!chris \
----------------------------------------------------------------
Responses to some of the UseNet traffic from Black Belt Systems
---------------------------------------------------------------
>Also, I was glad to see such a authoritative response on the video issue,
>but the tone the article took was a little distressing. DCTV and HAM-E
>are both much needed, much appreciated products entering the Amiga market
>at a time when they are greatly needed. However, I don't see the advantage
>in flaming a competetors product on the 'net. A direct comparison chart
>or somesuch is great, but sarcastic comments we can do without.
There were no sarcastic comments in that posting. We are in a
competitive position, have significant advantages in many areas, are
equal in all others barring built-in digitizing capability.
You might look back at the postings that were replied to as well; the
HAM-E was described as a 240 color capable device, the DCTV unit as a
"WUNDERBOX". There was a need for a counter opinion, and we are
uniquely qualified to offer it.
Also, competitive situations are normal in business, which is what
we're dealing with here.
We're trying to be honest. Even if it hurts DCTV. :^)
--------------------
>What the Amiga needs is a way to have multiple instances of graphics.library
>open, one for each possible display device. You could buy a high-res
>gee-whiz graphics board, plug it into a Zorro slot, and as it autoconfigures
>it would add its own version of graphics.library to the system. The
>problem is that this requires leadership from Commodore, namely reworking
>intuition/layers/etc. to work with more than one graphics.library as well as
>defining the standards for third-party graphics libraries.
We were continuing a discussion today with CBM, in fact, working with
us on what needs to be done to allow graphics calls to work 100% with
the HAM-E. They are very good about this, they called us with some
additional information we needed here. It turns out to be reasonably
simple, though (as you point out) line drawing and filling, in
particular, end up either (1) being done to a backup bitplane and then
blit-bombed en-masse (very inefficient... poo) or (2) by CPU driven
replacements for the blitter capabilties. But overall, the system is
remarkably consistant as to what low-level things it uses to get things
done... makes it not as hard as you might think. So this issue is being
dealt with, quite carefully. Our contact for this issue at CBM is the
GFX guru, Ray Brand, if anyone else wants to make a compatible GFX
library.
As for text and so on, we've got solutions to that already done for
"standard" fonts, and color-fonts are just around the corner, as in
maybe a couple of weeks, max.
============================================
Ben Williams, AA7AS, for Black Belt Systems.
============================================diogenes@bbs.sbs.com (Diogenes) (10/02/90)
Can anyone give me specs for HAM-E - I've heard that it will give the amiga
true 24 bit color - is it true, does it exist, is it the same as DCTV? How
much will I have to shell out for this puppy - ad nauseum.
Thanks -
Diogenes
Searching the nets for truth, justice, and the
American way...JK829055@pucal.bitnet (Jim Karczewski, Programmer -- TTR Development, Inc.) (10/21/90)
Someone had asked if you paint in Real Time or if you had to Wait
to see your image with Ham-E.. After seeing it at the Ami-Expo Back in July,
I can say, that it Does paint in real time. I believe the way the engineer
explained this is theat in actuality a 640x200 or 400 Interlaced picture
is being output, Then the HAM-E hardware compresses the infomation into
a 320x200 or 400 Interlace picture. Thats what I understood of it. So
Actually when you are painting on a 320x400 Picture.. it is a 640x400 Picture
Compressed.. So that gives you up to 16,192 Colors per screen at once.. Seeing
that you have 2 Pixels of information for ever one pixel displayed
on the screen. But this still doesn't make sense to me because there is the
limit of 16 colors on a Hi-Res screen..
Jim Karczewskics472119@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs472119) (10/22/90)
>Actually when you are painting on a 320x400 Picture.. it is a 640x400 Picture >Compressed.. So that gives you up to 16,192 Colors per screen at once.. Seeing >that you have 2 Pixels of information for ever one pixel displayed >on the screen. But this still doesn't make sense to me because there is the >limit of 16 colors on a Hi-Res screen.. Jim, HAM-E does use 640 x 200/400I screen. Remember, to get 16 colors, you need 4 bitplanes (2^4 = 16). By taking adjoining pixels together for a 320 x 200/400I screen, you get two columns of 4-bits => 8 bits/pixel => 2^8, or 256 simultaneously displayable colors with no restrictions. I'm still a little confused about the new HAM thing, though. -Larry
her@compel.UUCP (Helge Egelund Rasmussen) (10/22/90)
JK829055@pucal.bitnet (Jim Karczewski, Programmer -- TTR Development, Inc.) writes: >Actually when you are painting on a 320x400 Picture.. it is a 640x400 Picture >Compressed.. So that gives you up to 16,192 Colors per screen at once.. Seeing >that you have 2 Pixels of information for ever one pixel displayed >on the screen. But this still doesn't make sense to me because there is the >limit of 16 colors on a Hi-Res screen.. > Jim Karczewski I've just received my HAM-E, and I like it very much (it really works :-) ). Here is a description of the way HAM-E works (as far as I understand): HAM-E concatenates two pixels in a HIRES picture (640xwhatever) to form a 8 bit pixel in LORES (320xwhatever). This mean, that there is 8 bits to describe every pixel. HAM-E can use this info in two ways: 1: Register mode. In this mode the 8 bits is used as a color index, ie. a pointer to a color table with 256 entries (each entry in the color table is described with 24 bit). In this mode you can use 256 colors from a palette consisting of 2**24 colors = 16,777,216 colors). This is like normal amiga hires mode where you can use 16 colors from a palette consisting of 2**12 = 4096 colors. The paint program uses this mode. 2: Ham mode. In this mode the 8 bits is used like the normal Amiga HAM mode. That is 2 bits are used for choosing which color (R, G or B) to change, and 6 bits are used for the new color value. This gives 2**18 colors = 262144 colors, on the screen at the same time. Of course you have the same "fringing" problems as the normal Amiga HAM mode, but as you have 2**6 = 64 color registers to use, the problem is much smaller than in normal HAM mode. The above description is not the full story, in fact you have 250 color registers in HAM mode so the problem is even smaller. Every HAM-E picture must start with one or more scanlines which contains the values for the color registers, and an indication of which mode to use. But otherwise the pictures is just like any other HIRES picture, that is you can use any IFF viewer to show HAM-E pictures. --- Helge E. Rasmussen . PHONE + 45 31 37 11 00 . E-mail: her@compel.dk Compel A/S . FAX + 45 31 37 06 44 . Copenhagen, Denmark
axjjb@acad2.anc.alaska.edu (BRYANT JOHN J) (10/23/90)
I guess it is coming down to the fact that HAM-E is inherintly RGB and DC-TV is composite. I personally liek the RGB because you can do some great programming for it..plus the HAM-E is useable by existing software. I called thier BBS (Black Belt systems) and was amazed by the support. They were actively seeking recommendations for the software. And then implementing the recommendations. I was truly amazed. The reps are very informed. (I've bugged the heck out of one of the techs (300 bucks isn't a small investment for a college student:-).... I plan on writing a game or two in HAM-E..(just to show to my I*M friends...how fast can VGA be animated :-)...and I plan on writing some animation software if I have the time. This could be fun....and who says the Amiga doesn't have 24 bit color (That's why I purchased my Amiga...it's a fun computer...plus it is useful...the computer for all of your moods..) John J Bryant Student Computer User Consultant University of Alaska Anchorage Disclaimer: I said what??? (I do not work for Black Belt Systems (HAM-E) or Digital Creations (DC-TV)
axjjb@acad2.anc.alaska.edu (BRYANT JOHN J) (10/24/90)
WOW!!. BlackBelt systems support of the HAM_E is incredible. They have created a program that will convert between a bunch of different file formats (GIF, MAC, etc) into a true 24 bit image. They are continually making improvememtns on the software and it is free. They are also asking for suggestions...and taking them seriuosly..(Last night I logged on to see that they had added several new enhancements into thier 24bit drawing package and thier rendering software...I am truly impressed (again :-) Sorry for the constant posts on the subject...but if all the products had this kind of support the Amiga would be top in sales. (but it's #1 in my book) John J Bryant Student Computer User Consultant University of Alaska Anchorage Disclaimer: I said what?? (I am not in anyway affiliated with Black Belt systems. (except as a satisfied customer...even though my HAM-E is still in the mail) Suggestion to ASDG: Include direct support of the HAM-E in your software. (ie..be able to control gamma correction..etc..and see the HAM_E screen at the same time..it's hard to say what I am visualizing..I own TAD..and would buy the enhancement if it ever came out.)
DEB110@psuvm.psu.edu (Doug Bischoff) (10/25/90)
Okay... this is getting interesting. Could somebody (I remember seeing
a post from somebody at Black-Belt systems on here awhile ago... still around?)
tell me the basics of HAM-E and what it means to compatibility with current
software, compatability with WB2.0, A3000's, and use of standard Video Modes.
Also, what can it do? Can it actually DISPLAY the 24 bitplane color?
Or just work with it? If you want to just WORK with 24 bitplanes, go out
and spend $89 on The Art Department or something similar. If it can display
it... now I'm interested.
What's it take to install? And finally....
What software already out there uses it, how much does all this miracle
package cost, and what's the phone number I can call for more info? Thanks
to all for the help. I'm seriously interested.
/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| -Doug Bischoff- | *** *** ====--\ | "Beggars can't |
| -DEB110 @ PSUVM- | * *** * ==|<>\___ | be users. Just |
| -The Black Ring- | *** *** |______\ | give me the damn |
| --- "Wheels" --- | *** O O | disk, willya?" |
| Corwyn Blakwolfe | T.R.I. ------------- | -"Grendel" Roe |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------/axjjb@acad2.anc.alaska.edu (BRYANT JOHN J) (12/01/90)
Well, It appears that my HAM-E has finally arrived (I pick it up in about half an hour). I did get to read the owners manual. WOW....it looks like this is going to be one hot piece of equipment. I will post a factual review Monday. John J Bryant Student Computer User Consultant University of Alaska Anchorage Warning: Amiga Enthusiast at large. Disclaimer: I said what???
axjjb@acad3.alaska.edu (BRYANT JOHN J) (12/04/90)
I just recieved my HAM-E friday and am very impressed by it. It does fullanimation (anytyhing that can animate a full 640 wide screen can be used to animate Ham-E images. This includes fantavision even.) It offers 256 colors out of 16.7 million colors and 262,144 colors on screen at once. It i snot that hard to install and the software is pretty straight forward. The images are amazing!!!! I am looking for anyone with HAM-E images and animations to swap with. Feel free to aks me any questions... John J Bryant Student Computer User Consultant University of Alaska Anchorage Disclaimer: I said what???
axjjb@acad3.alaska.edu (BRYANT JOHN J) (12/05/90)
Since there hasbeen lots of misinformation about the HAM-E I figured I woulkd
make a post since I have owned one for about a week now.
1st: You can do 3d, 2d, whatever animation with it (even Deluxepaint III)
it is essentially a high res screen so any animation program that
can animate a highres screen will work.
2nd: If you are getting fringing youa re noit using the right settings. I have
over 30 renderings (a lot of them were digiview files) that aI digitized
without any problems of fringing.
3rd: It is comp[atible with existing products. I can even use it with my
AmigaVision scripts, all animation programs, Deluxe Paint III, AMOS, etc
and since it is RGB, I do not need to flip switches/monitors.
4th: It is fully compatible with intuition. You can have multiple HAM-E
screens up. Or mix and match HAM-E screens wiuth Normal Amiga screen!!!.
5th: It's resolution is 320 (or you can overscan) x 200,400 (or overscan)
with 256 out of 16.7 million or 262,144 with 59 24bit registers (soon
to be increased to 256 registers in the 262,144 color mode) They are also
going to improve the resolution to 672 wide.
If anyone has any specific questions please ask. jmauric@hubcap.clemson.edu (AMIGA users group) (12/10/90)
From article <1990Dec4.201207.22116@ims.alaska.edu>, by axjjb@acad3.alaska.edu (BRYANT JOHN J): > Since there hasbeen lots of misinformation about the HAM-E I figured I woulkd > make a post since I have owned one for about a week now. > > If anyone has any specific questions please ask. is it a program? if so, where can i get it? --john jmauric@hubcap.clemson.edu
bleys@tronsbox.xei.com (Bill Cavanaugh) (12/10/90)
The more I hear about (and from) this company, the less I want their product. When it was first announced, it sounded great, and several people I know sent them mail asking about developer status. They didn't hear anything, but we assumed that there'd been a missed communication somewhere. The unit then took the better part of a year before it came close to being marketed. I thought, "They're a small company. They probably had a cash- flow problem." Now, the unit's on the market, and I hear that not only are they shipping to Europe without a power supply (not a problem), but that they're giving the customers the impression that a power supply is included right up until they open the box! (PROBLEM!) They've made no provision for distribution of software upgrades. (It's Public Domain! It'll distribute itself!) When asked about these policys, Ben Williams says: >unit. Rather than increase the price to the European customers, >we elected not to try to handle the power supply issue here. >The cost to you would be severe, in additional shipping costs >and the extra cost to us of the more sophisticated power supply. In other words, they punted. Nothing wrong with that, if you tell the other team that you're doing it. They didn't. And Mr. Williams didn't address the question of why they didn't. >The software policy has been changed; we've been convinced that >it's going to have to be that way, even though the software is >PD and can be found in many places besides our BBS... the fact >is that many people don't have modems (believe it or not :^) >So, you can get the software upgrades, for a $10 handling charge >and whatever the shipping is to Europe for it. Are they actually suggesting that putting the upgrades on a disk, putting the disk in an envelope, and sealing the envelope costs them $10?? I can get disks at the local Software Etc. for $1 each. Mailers are less than a quarter. It takes less than two minutes to duplicate a disk. Yeesh! Sorry, guys, too little, too late, for too much. >was tested in, never realized that it required ARP. As a result, >several hundred units went out with that idiot mistake (and idiot >program) on them. Black Belt does not support the use of ARP >in any way, shape or form, and we apologize for the mistake. >Mostra is just a file viewer, though, so the images can still >be shown by just about anything you can find. Here, I think Mr. Williams goes way over the edge. A small company can get by with a lower level of professionalism than a larger one, but there's no excuse for the kind of attack made on an excellent shareware product. I think Mr. Williams owes Sebastiano Vigna an appology for the "idiot program" remark. By the way, Mr. Vigna is in Italy, so the ARP library is apparently available in Europe, for those reading this who have the Black Belt package, and who would like to use an excellent file viewer, but don't have the library. The impression I get, more and more as time goes by, is that Black Belt Systems is trying to get away with everything they can. That might be a cynical interpretation of the facts; they might just be unprofessional enough not to consider customer service important enough to consider. Either way, they've got a long way to go. /**************************************************************** * All of the above copyright by the below. * * Bill Cavanaugh uunet!tronsbox!bleys * * "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy." * ****************************************************************/
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (12/10/90)
bleys@tronsbox.xei.com (Bill Cavanaugh) writes: > The more I hear about (and from) this company, the less I want their > product. >>So, you can get the software upgrades, for a $10 handling charge >>and whatever the shipping is to Europe for it. >Are they actually suggesting that putting the upgrades on a disk, putting >the disk in an envelope, and sealing the envelope costs them $10?? I can >get disks at the local Software Etc. for $1 each. Mailers are less than a >quarter. It takes less than two minutes to duplicate a disk. Yeesh! >Sorry, guys, too little, too late, for too much. Much as I agree with the rest of your article, and your conclusions, I have to defend the $10 as a realistic price. I'd be _amazed_ if they could break even at $10. That doesn't say that cost of bugfixes shouldn't be factored into the price of the released product, instead of existing as a hidden add on cost later, to make the product look more price competitive up front, but to run an upgrade service, you must, at a minimum: o Maintain a registered user list so you aren't upgrading pirated copies, and so that you can inform legitimate users that upgrades exist. o Write, print, stuff, frank, and distribute upgrade notices. o Gather, sort, prioritize, and track incoming mail. o Pay a disk duplication service to duplicate your diskettes. o Transport the disks to your facility. o Pay for printed labels, diskettes, mailers, mailer labels. o Pay for a materials ordering and inventory function. o Pay for heat, light, water, taxes, rent, furniture, filing, telephone, vacations, salary, SSI, Workman's comp, etc. for the person(s) doing the processing. o Address, label, stuff, frank, and post diskettes. o Handle complaints about unreadable diskettes. And probably lots more along the same lines I've missed. To go with Piet Hein's "Things. Take. Time." you can add my "Things. Cost. Money." Chuck McMannis did this all a lot better in his article on the cost of selling your own software, perhaps two years back. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>