IO00844@MAINE.BITNET (Zero Batzell) (12/11/90)
I find CDTV to be quite alluring, however, I just purchased an amiga 2000 (an u pgrade from my 1000). If I buy a CD ROM drive will I be able to run the softwa re designed for CDTV on it? (((ZERO))) "Just as long as I know what I'm talking about, that's all that matters"-ME
) (12/11/90)
CDTV is compatible with CDROMs that are of the ISO-9660 standard
format. Look for that designation on the label.
Marc Rifkin... Artist and Technical Dude
& Penn State Amiga Student Consultant
R38@PSUVM.PSU.EDU / R38@PSUVM.BITNET
(814) 867-4837 (SCHOOL) / (215) 825-3138 (HOME)
"Take thy beak from out my heart." - The Ravenkdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (12/11/90)
> CDTV is compatible with CDROMs that are of the ISO-9660 standard > format. Look for that designation on the label. That ISO standard is for the directory layout only. Unfortunately there is no standard yet for the actual data contained in the files. CDROM-XA is supposed to take care of that, but it seems a long way away. In the meantime, you virtually always have to have the specific program (the data retrieval engine) ported to your machine, in order to be able to access the data. There are a few discs with available data specs, but they're the rare case indeed, it seems. Most cdrom makers keep their data encoding a secret. There's a lot happening which may alter what becomes a "standard", also. Besides that other IFF article someone mentioned, IBM has just announced _their_ multimedia exchange format called RIFF. They also have a library to handle external audio/video devices in an independent way. And then of course Apple has their own standards. Now, those are just interchange formats, but they may affect cdroms in the end. Looks like the usual historical "standards" mess to me <sigh> best - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
cwpjr@cbnewse.att.com (clyde.w.jr.phillips) (12/12/90)
In article <1990Dec11.095100.26677@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu>, kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: > > CDTV is compatible with CDROMs that are of the ISO-9660 standard > > format. Look for that designation on the label. > > That ISO standard is for the directory layout only. Unfortunately there > is no standard yet for the actual data contained in the files. > > CDROM-XA is supposed to take care of that, but it seems a long way away. > > In the meantime, you virtually always have to have the specific program > (the data retrieval engine) ported to your machine, in order to be able > to access the data. There are a few discs with available data specs, > but they're the rare case indeed, it seems. Most cdrom makers keep > their data encoding a secret. > The first statement "directory layout only" would lead me to beleive the "data retreival engine" (Device Driver) that comes with the ISO CDROM Drive I bought for my (whatever) system can read any ISO disk and tell me the file names on the CDROM. Then you say ( ne pas intention du flambe ) these device drivers have to be unique to "access the data"... The simple answer is that all what I infer is correct but that the CDROM makers are defeating the STD by "encoding" the files. (Prog&Data) If the standard drive came with a device driver that could tell me file names I assume I'd see: for MS-DOS: *.exe , *.com , *.bat , *.dat , *.GIF for AMI *.iff , *.anim , etc And assuming I'm an ami user I could read in a PC *.GIF file and send it to an amy file and run a gif2iff utility. Likewise for MAC targeted CDROMS. Even if the CDROM is targeted towards a platform I should be able to get at the data. I see however that since we dont have "programs" that normally deal with CD volumes of data that a particular CDROM application may encode data, but all of them? I guess that I'd expect the standards of the target platform to be the standards for the data in the files on the CDROM. Is this wrong headed? --Clyde
huebner@aero.aero.org (Robert E. Huebner) (12/12/90)
In article <90345.021910R38@psuvm.psu.edu>, R38@psuvm.psu.edu (Me!!) writes: |> CDTV is compatible with CDROMs that are of the ISO-9660 standard |> format. Look for that designation on the label. Of course, by saying this you give the impression that I can go out and purchase any old ISO-9660 or High Sierra format CD (CDTV supports both, so does the Xetex, I believe) and pop it in. This is not true unless you have proper retrieval software to get the information off the disk and display/execute it. My impression of this is- its sort of like putting an MS-DOS disk in your Amiga using MSH: Sure, you can see the filenames, but without additional software you cannot view the GIFs or execute a program. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. ---- Robert Huebner huebner@aerospace.aero.org The Aerospace Corporation ----
kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (12/12/90)
In <1990Dec11.160910.17300@cbnewse.att.com> cwpjr@cbnewse.att.com (clyde.w.jr.phillips) writes: | In article <1990Dec11.095100.26677@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> | kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: |> > CDTV is compatible with CDROMs that are of the ISO-9660 standard |> > format. Look for that designation on the label. |> |> That ISO standard is for the directory layout only. Unfortunately there |> is no standard yet for the actual data contained in the files. |> |> In the meantime, you virtually always have to have the specific program |> (the data retrieval engine) ported to your machine, in order to be able |> to access the data. There are a few discs with available data specs, |> but they're the rare case indeed, it seems. Most cdrom makers keep |> their data encoding a secret. - kevin |> | The first statement "directory layout only" would lead me to beleive | the "data retreival engine" (Device Driver) that comes with the | ISO CDROM Drive I bought for my (whatever) system can read any ISO disk | and tell me the file names on the CDROM. - clyde Apologies, I've been reading the CDROM forum on CIS so much, I forgot that "data retrieval engine" is semi-jargon. What it basically means, is "the (machine-specific) program code used to access the data". In other words, it's not the SCSI driver, nor the ISO9660 file system manager. Those are indeed drive/disc independent. But the actual access program and data code/methods are not. For instance, an encyclopedia disc will have a program designed to use the highly encoded (for speed) index of all words... a geography disc data engine would know about how the map data was encoded, etc. | I guess that I'd expect the standards of the target platform | to be the standards for the data in the files on the CDROM. | Is this wrong headed? - clyde Umm. Essentially correct. The data (especially graphics) will be packed to best fit the (graphics) modes of the target platform. But I doubt that you'd find recognizable "standards", such as .GIF files and so on. A related comment tells the story: <94076@aerospace.AERO.ORG> huebner@aero.aero.org (Robert E. Huebner): | My impression of this is- its sort of like putting an MS-DOS disk in your | Amiga using MSH: Sure, you can see the filenames, but without additional | software you cannot view the GIFs or execute a program. | Please, correct me if I'm wrong. You're right. The best way to think of it is this way: would you go into a software store and buy an MSDOS disk for your Amiga, and expect to use the program/data off it? No. Sure, with enough information, tools, and time, you might be able to get *something* (usually un-encoded text)... but it wouldn't be worth the effort. Porting the original retrieval software is the best method, and that depends on the cdrom creators. More apologies, as this is longer than I wished. But to go further: you'll often see Mac cdrom owners complain about not being able to use IBM discs, and vice-versa. Unless the cdrom creator saw fit to compile multiple retrieval engines (programs) for each platform, the disc is almost always useless in the non-target machine. Obviously, each maker has his own methods, and MSDOS people with multiple discs must load the specific retrieval program for the one they're using, each time. I once launched a tirade at cdrom makers on CIS about the non-independent data, and while it brought up _one_ maker (nutrition information disc) who said he did make his data encoding available, and also the fact that some gov't disc formats are available, the majority just shrugged. This is simply one of those cases where each company is in competition over storing and retrieving data in the smallest/fastest way possible, and to them a cdrom is just another giant floppy. Standards for now, at least, are pretty far from their minds. best - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> PS: Other comments welcome. I've been following CDROM for some time, in hopes of creating access on other machines (amiga/os9/etc), but I am mostly a well-read armchair expert on the subject ;-).
stevem@hal.CSS.GOV (Steve Masters) (12/12/90)
huebner@aero.aero.org (Robert E. Huebner) writes: >In article <90345.021910R38@psuvm.psu.edu>, R38@psuvm.psu.edu (Me!!) writes: >|> CDTV is compatible with CDROMs that are of the ISO-9660 standard >|> format. Look for that designation on the label. >Of course, by saying this you give the impression that I can go out and >purchase any old ISO-9660 or High Sierra format CD (CDTV supports both, >so does the Xetex, I believe) and pop it in. This is not true unless >you have proper retrieval software to get the information off the disk and >display/execute it. >My impression of this is- its sort of like putting an MS-DOS disk in your >Amiga using MSH: Sure, you can see the filenames, but without additional >software you cannot view the GIFs or execute a program. BUT....If the file on the CD-ROM was in GIF format, and you had an Amiga-specific CD-ROM reader with the device driver (e.g. Xetec's(sp?) new reader), could you read the data off of the ISO-9960 CD-ROM into your favorite GIF processing program??? In other words, does the CD-ROM look like any other file system to the user, or is there the likelihood of furthur encoding that you must deal with in addition to the ISO-9960/High Sierra standards? This is important, since there are CD-ROM databases available which come with IBM-PC retrieval software, but the DATA is (supposedly) on the disc in ASCII characters. If the files appear and can be handled like any other file system, I should be able to access the data with my own C, AREXX, or (sorry) BASIC programs. BTW, has anyone actually bought and tried out Xetec's CD-ROM reader? Steve Masters stevem@hal.CSS.GOV ENSCO, Inc. Melbourne, FL 32940 (407) 254 4122